Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
May I point out that the values listed in the Scott catalog are for Very Fine issues. If the stamp being offered isn't VF quality, listing the Scott value is disingenuous.
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Unless the percentage discount for deviation for VF condition varies arbitrarily among stamps, the Scott Value should yield an essentially perfect rank correlation with real value, and that ranking is really all I am interested in. This assumes a scan and/or discussion makes possible an evaluation of condition.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
It is true that Scott values are for VF stamps, without damage. But grading stamps is subjective, as, really, is Scott's valuation. Our own auction rules require damage be identified; but trying to offer pricing based on grade is a fool's errand, and would ONLY matter if all expected transactions were at 100% of that stated price.
Scott values are a starting point only.
David
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
02:02:59am
" ... Scott values are a starting point only. ..."
Boy, I'll agree with that.
I'd ask for a show of hands as to how many members have ever actually read the
Scott values are a starting point only. ages of fine print that Scott or Gibbons or Facit go to the trouble of carefully printing in each volume of each annual printing/issue.
But I do not think I am ready for all that disappointment.
The members of my local stamp club seem to almost all be the nicest, most decent, well meaning people in this world, but judging from the questions that I get asked when I attend the meetings, the percentage is very low.
Login to Like
this post
09:51:16am
In Scott, not only are valuations for VF stamps, but after a certain date (specific to each country and noted in a highlighted box in the catalog), mint stamps are valued in NH condition. Yet when quoting catalog prices, almost all sellers merely state the value of unused, previous hinged stamps as the value attributed to the stamp in NH condition. Doesn't this bother anyone other than me? I think it is tantamount to fraud to make such assertions to value when such a stamp is most likely worth considerably less than the amount quoted by the seller. And since such notations are very prominently placed, any seller who states he/she is unaware of this is either a liar, illiterate or guilty of the most egregious sort of willful ignorance.
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Doesn't bother me either. If a seller wants to list a catalog value to show where the selling price was derived from that is fine. However, if the seller also doesn't state the year of the catalog from which the value was taken, then the value is simply meaningless.
I expect a seller to set a selling price that is relative to the condition of the stamp. I gravitate away from any seller who doesn't do this, no matter the venue from which I am buying.
Login to Like
this post
well, maybe approvals being an exception! Not many approvals list any type of CV or year of catalog, just a selling price.
Mike
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Yes, I guess that is an exception, but I usually consult a catalog when going through the approval books here. When I don't, I have a pretty good idea on the values of the stamps being offered.
Login to Like
this post
I don't even care what year the catalog is. CV means so little that I ignore it. If it's low CV, who cares? Your shipping fees are probably more important than the price of the stamp. If it's high CV, I know EXACTLY what I am willing to pay for the item, regardless of what is listed for the CV. I just need good scans and an accurate description. Doesn't bother me a bit.
Lars
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
08:32:34pm
" ... CV means so little that I ignore it. If it's low CV, who cares? Your shipping fees are probably more important than the price of the stamp. ..."
My feelings exactly. Besides Other than identifying minimal value issues, the major catalogs listings, Scott, Gibbons, NVPH, Yvert, Michel, Facit and others are widely at variance both in "values" as well as standards.
My decisions are usually based on how badly I want something and the funds available.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
To play devil's advocate with Lars and Charlie, are you saying you wouldn't use the CV to frame your range of how much you're willing to pay for or sell an item? The actual value listed in a catalogue may not be indicative of the subjective value of a stamp to a collector, but doesn't it provide a reference for your bidding or selling? And wouldn't a contemporary CV be more meaningful in that regard than one from a 10 year old catalogue?
Just wondering.
Peter
Login to Like
this post
09:18:00pm
" ... are you saying you wouldn't use the CV to frame your range of how much you're willing to pay for or sell an item? ..."
I think so.
I very seldom pay any attention to catalog listing, . I just checked and my most up to date catalog is the Gibbon's Specialized vol 4, 10th printing of 2008.(And that purchase was, and still is, a great disappointment.)
Next to that is a 2007 Facit, Scandinavia.
While I have several printings of Scott's, the oldest being the 1904 edition,(Yes, 1904), the newest are some used volumes of 1997 and 1998.
Once in a while I visit our local library's Scott set, not for values, but to be able to put the stamps of one country or another in year/date order for mounting.
Since the last time I did that would have been no later than mid-2011, before a series of hospitalizations and my tearing up my driver's license, I am quite confident I've not consulted an up to date catalog for its value listing in at least that long.
My Deegam Complete Machin Handbook disc is most recent ( Late 2014 ), but then Doug wisely has avoided marching off into the catalog value swamp by merely assigning a general number(# 0- 9 ) of comparative rarity, or inversely, of availability
.
Login to Like
this post
"To play devil's advocate with Lars and Charlie, are you saying you wouldn't use the CV to frame your range of how much you're willing to pay for or sell an item?"
Yes, you are correct when in comes to buying. I rarely sell, so I'm just talking about buying. For low priced items, shipping charges matter more than anything. For stamps costing $10 or more, I spend more time researching them. My range is based on observing actual sales. I have two lists: What I'm buying and what I'm watching. When I have seen enough sales to determine a good price for the item in my acceptable condition, I will move it to the buy list and bid up to that price for any example that is as good, or better, than my minimal standard. On rare occasions I will see a BUY-IT-NOW for a good price. In fact, that's how I got my 315.
"While I have several printings of Scott's, the oldest being the 1904 edition"
You have me beat. My oldest is 1905. My oldest US Specialized is 1928 (5th Edition).
Lars
Login to Like
this post
Here's my copy!
There must have been a few printed that year!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
04:58:10pm
That looks like better condition than mine, although I do have a similar 1914 that looks as good.
Login to Like
this post
Yeah, My next is 1917 and it is quite a bit thicker!
Regards,
Don
Login to Like
this post
06:40:25pm
It can be interesting on a rainy evening poking through an old catalog to see what prices and sometimes variations that were later dropped as space in catalog pages became more important than some obscure minor variety that only appealed to a small number of specialists.
The advertizing can also be a hoot.
In 1950 Gibbons, British Empire the "Stamp Monthly" would be sold and sent worldwide for six shillings a year. An advertisement at the back of the November issue offers a year subscription for £95.00, surface mil or £120.00 by air.
Login to Like
this post
Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
12 Jan 2015
09:36:06pm
I see many inferior stamps for sale (in auctions everywhere) that quote the Scott value.
May I point out that the values listed in the Scott catalog are for Very Fine issues. If the stamp being offered isn't VF quality, listing the Scott value is disingenuous.
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
10:45:32pm
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
Unless the percentage discount for deviation for VF condition varies arbitrarily among stamps, the Scott Value should yield an essentially perfect rank correlation with real value, and that ranking is really all I am interested in. This assumes a scan and/or discussion makes possible an evaluation of condition.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Auctions
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
It is true that Scott values are for VF stamps, without damage. But grading stamps is subjective, as, really, is Scott's valuation. Our own auction rules require damage be identified; but trying to offer pricing based on grade is a fool's errand, and would ONLY matter if all expected transactions were at 100% of that stated price.
Scott values are a starting point only.
David
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 Jan 2015
02:02:59am
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
" ... Scott values are a starting point only. ..."
Boy, I'll agree with that.
I'd ask for a show of hands as to how many members have ever actually read the
Scott values are a starting point only. ages of fine print that Scott or Gibbons or Facit go to the trouble of carefully printing in each volume of each annual printing/issue.
But I do not think I am ready for all that disappointment.
The members of my local stamp club seem to almost all be the nicest, most decent, well meaning people in this world, but judging from the questions that I get asked when I attend the meetings, the percentage is very low.
Login to Like
this post
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
19 Jan 2015
09:51:16am
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
In Scott, not only are valuations for VF stamps, but after a certain date (specific to each country and noted in a highlighted box in the catalog), mint stamps are valued in NH condition. Yet when quoting catalog prices, almost all sellers merely state the value of unused, previous hinged stamps as the value attributed to the stamp in NH condition. Doesn't this bother anyone other than me? I think it is tantamount to fraud to make such assertions to value when such a stamp is most likely worth considerably less than the amount quoted by the seller. And since such notations are very prominently placed, any seller who states he/she is unaware of this is either a liar, illiterate or guilty of the most egregious sort of willful ignorance.
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
Doesn't bother me either. If a seller wants to list a catalog value to show where the selling price was derived from that is fine. However, if the seller also doesn't state the year of the catalog from which the value was taken, then the value is simply meaningless.
I expect a seller to set a selling price that is relative to the condition of the stamp. I gravitate away from any seller who doesn't do this, no matter the venue from which I am buying.
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
well, maybe approvals being an exception! Not many approvals list any type of CV or year of catalog, just a selling price.
Mike
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
Yes, I guess that is an exception, but I usually consult a catalog when going through the approval books here. When I don't, I have a pretty good idea on the values of the stamps being offered.
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
I don't even care what year the catalog is. CV means so little that I ignore it. If it's low CV, who cares? Your shipping fees are probably more important than the price of the stamp. If it's high CV, I know EXACTLY what I am willing to pay for the item, regardless of what is listed for the CV. I just need good scans and an accurate description. Doesn't bother me a bit.
Lars
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Jan 2015
08:32:34pm
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
" ... CV means so little that I ignore it. If it's low CV, who cares? Your shipping fees are probably more important than the price of the stamp. ..."
My feelings exactly. Besides Other than identifying minimal value issues, the major catalogs listings, Scott, Gibbons, NVPH, Yvert, Michel, Facit and others are widely at variance both in "values" as well as standards.
My decisions are usually based on how badly I want something and the funds available.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
08:41:27pm
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
To play devil's advocate with Lars and Charlie, are you saying you wouldn't use the CV to frame your range of how much you're willing to pay for or sell an item? The actual value listed in a catalogue may not be indicative of the subjective value of a stamp to a collector, but doesn't it provide a reference for your bidding or selling? And wouldn't a contemporary CV be more meaningful in that regard than one from a 10 year old catalogue?
Just wondering.
Peter
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Jan 2015
09:18:00pm
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
" ... are you saying you wouldn't use the CV to frame your range of how much you're willing to pay for or sell an item? ..."
I think so.
I very seldom pay any attention to catalog listing, . I just checked and my most up to date catalog is the Gibbon's Specialized vol 4, 10th printing of 2008.(And that purchase was, and still is, a great disappointment.)
Next to that is a 2007 Facit, Scandinavia.
While I have several printings of Scott's, the oldest being the 1904 edition,(Yes, 1904), the newest are some used volumes of 1997 and 1998.
Once in a while I visit our local library's Scott set, not for values, but to be able to put the stamps of one country or another in year/date order for mounting.
Since the last time I did that would have been no later than mid-2011, before a series of hospitalizations and my tearing up my driver's license, I am quite confident I've not consulted an up to date catalog for its value listing in at least that long.
My Deegam Complete Machin Handbook disc is most recent ( Late 2014 ), but then Doug wisely has avoided marching off into the catalog value swamp by merely assigning a general number(# 0- 9 ) of comparative rarity, or inversely, of availability
.
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
"To play devil's advocate with Lars and Charlie, are you saying you wouldn't use the CV to frame your range of how much you're willing to pay for or sell an item?"
Yes, you are correct when in comes to buying. I rarely sell, so I'm just talking about buying. For low priced items, shipping charges matter more than anything. For stamps costing $10 or more, I spend more time researching them. My range is based on observing actual sales. I have two lists: What I'm buying and what I'm watching. When I have seen enough sales to determine a good price for the item in my acceptable condition, I will move it to the buy list and bid up to that price for any example that is as good, or better, than my minimal standard. On rare occasions I will see a BUY-IT-NOW for a good price. In fact, that's how I got my 315.
"While I have several printings of Scott's, the oldest being the 1904 edition"
You have me beat. My oldest is 1905. My oldest US Specialized is 1928 (5th Edition).
Lars
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
Here's my copy!
There must have been a few printed that year!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Jan 2015
04:58:10pm
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
That looks like better condition than mine, although I do have a similar 1914 that looks as good.
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
Yeah, My next is 1917 and it is quite a bit thicker!
Regards,
Don
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
23 Jan 2015
06:40:25pm
re: Scott Values are for VF Stamps
It can be interesting on a rainy evening poking through an old catalog to see what prices and sometimes variations that were later dropped as space in catalog pages became more important than some obscure minor variety that only appealed to a small number of specialists.
The advertizing can also be a hoot.
In 1950 Gibbons, British Empire the "Stamp Monthly" would be sold and sent worldwide for six shillings a year. An advertisement at the back of the November issue offers a year subscription for £95.00, surface mil or £120.00 by air.
Login to Like
this post