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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Help please! Russia or Poland?

 

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ChrisW
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APS# 175366

30 Jan 2015
04:02:54pm
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Don't see it in my Scott Catalogue...or I'm just missing itAt Wits End

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"Collecting worldwide classic era stamps"
BeeSee
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Langley, BC

30 Jan 2015
04:12:10pm
re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

I don't have my catalog here at the office, but those are listed under Latvia, as unissued stamps. There are many varieties that are not listed, and also forgeries.

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ChrisW
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APS# 175366

30 Jan 2015
04:38:20pm
re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Interesting...gives me a place to start Nerd

Thanks!

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"Collecting worldwide classic era stamps"
ChrisW
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APS# 175366

05 Feb 2015
10:16:25am
re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Just thought I'd post an update...

Thanks to Jim at his blog (bigblue1840-1940), these are unissued Latvia 1919 Western Russian Volunteer Army stamps.

No (active) numbers assigned in Scott, but ubiquitous in collections. These designs- both imperforate and perforate- were ordered in 1919 while the country was struggling with which government was going to rule Latvia. These stamps were prepared on order of Colonel Avalov Bermondt, commander of the Western Russian Volunteer Army. But, by the time the stamps arrived, the Latvians under Ulmanis had assumed control. So these stamps, which are considered "occupation" stamps, were never released, but did end up in the stamp market. In fact, a lot of them, as they are found in almost every collection. But Scott withdrew catalogue numbers for them a long time ago, as they were never postally used. Counterfeits exist.

Thanks Jim. Always enjoy when I can learn a bit of history from my stampsApplause

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

06 Feb 2015
04:17:22am
re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

" .... But Scott withdrew catalogue numbers for them a long time ago, as they were never postally used. ...."

If Scott only withdrew all the stamp labels that were never really postally used they could publish fewer volumes.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
nigelc
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06 Feb 2015
05:01:12am
re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Hi Chris,

When I was at school I got excited by stories of the Russian Civil War but found it difficult to find out much about the white armies.

I was recommended a book called "The White Generals" which I found fascinating and it told many stories of these fragmented armies and their infighting.

There are useful biographies of these generals in Wikipedia.

Many of these leaders were military adventurers rather than than orthodox commanders and Avalov-Bermondt was a good example of this.

He was backed by Germany and the army essentially existed to support the Baltic German population and German political interests.

His army was supposed to be anti-bolshevik but it spent much of its effort in conflict with newly-independent Latvian forces rather than with the Red Army.

SG lists these eagle issues under "Western Army" which in turn it lists under North West Russia.

Stamps issued by parties in the three main theatres of the war are listed by SG under North West Russia, South Russia and Siberia. In SG Part 10, all three groups are listed together as Russian Civil War Issues.

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michael78651
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06 Feb 2015
05:36:17am
re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Addressing the potential counterfeit matter, this one appears to be genuine.

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www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
ChrisW
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APS# 175366

06 Feb 2015
08:56:03am
re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Thanks nigelc for the information...so much history one can delve into!

Thanks Michael, yes, I also learned how to distinguish between the forgeries and genuine stamps by this process and all of mine appear to be genuine.

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"Collecting worldwide classic era stamps"
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
ChrisW

APS# 175366
30 Jan 2015
04:02:54pm

Image Not Found

Don't see it in my Scott Catalogue...or I'm just missing itAt Wits End

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Collecting worldwide classic era stamps"
Members Picture
BeeSee

Langley, BC
30 Jan 2015
04:12:10pm

re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

I don't have my catalog here at the office, but those are listed under Latvia, as unissued stamps. There are many varieties that are not listed, and also forgeries.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I love used classic stamps. APS, RPSC, BNAPS"

brcStamps.com
Members Picture
ChrisW

APS# 175366
30 Jan 2015
04:38:20pm

re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Interesting...gives me a place to start Nerd

Thanks!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Collecting worldwide classic era stamps"
Members Picture
ChrisW

APS# 175366
05 Feb 2015
10:16:25am

re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Just thought I'd post an update...

Thanks to Jim at his blog (bigblue1840-1940), these are unissued Latvia 1919 Western Russian Volunteer Army stamps.

No (active) numbers assigned in Scott, but ubiquitous in collections. These designs- both imperforate and perforate- were ordered in 1919 while the country was struggling with which government was going to rule Latvia. These stamps were prepared on order of Colonel Avalov Bermondt, commander of the Western Russian Volunteer Army. But, by the time the stamps arrived, the Latvians under Ulmanis had assumed control. So these stamps, which are considered "occupation" stamps, were never released, but did end up in the stamp market. In fact, a lot of them, as they are found in almost every collection. But Scott withdrew catalogue numbers for them a long time ago, as they were never postally used. Counterfeits exist.

Thanks Jim. Always enjoy when I can learn a bit of history from my stampsApplause

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Collecting worldwide classic era stamps"

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
06 Feb 2015
04:17:22am

re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

" .... But Scott withdrew catalogue numbers for them a long time ago, as they were never postally used. ...."

If Scott only withdrew all the stamp labels that were never really postally used they could publish fewer volumes.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
nigelc

06 Feb 2015
05:01:12am

re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Hi Chris,

When I was at school I got excited by stories of the Russian Civil War but found it difficult to find out much about the white armies.

I was recommended a book called "The White Generals" which I found fascinating and it told many stories of these fragmented armies and their infighting.

There are useful biographies of these generals in Wikipedia.

Many of these leaders were military adventurers rather than than orthodox commanders and Avalov-Bermondt was a good example of this.

He was backed by Germany and the army essentially existed to support the Baltic German population and German political interests.

His army was supposed to be anti-bolshevik but it spent much of its effort in conflict with newly-independent Latvian forces rather than with the Red Army.

SG lists these eagle issues under "Western Army" which in turn it lists under North West Russia.

Stamps issued by parties in the three main theatres of the war are listed by SG under North West Russia, South Russia and Siberia. In SG Part 10, all three groups are listed together as Russian Civil War Issues.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
michael78651

06 Feb 2015
05:36:17am

re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Addressing the potential counterfeit matter, this one appears to be genuine.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
ChrisW

APS# 175366
06 Feb 2015
08:56:03am

re: Help please! Russia or Poland?

Thanks nigelc for the information...so much history one can delve into!

Thanks Michael, yes, I also learned how to distinguish between the forgeries and genuine stamps by this process and all of mine appear to be genuine.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Collecting worldwide classic era stamps"
        

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