Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Here are a few items I have picked up:
1) Understanding what pelure paper is
2) The horrible inflation in Hungary after WWII
3) Being able to identify watermarks more easily
4) Proper stamp handling and storage (mint stamps can fuse together over time)
5) The occupation of Russia into other territories
6) Using colnect.com to help identify dates and varieties
7) Understanding how to read a catalog correctly
8) Being able to use Google to help translate cyrillic letters
Anyway, I would encourage beginners to try it. Persist in it, and you will learn. I think it just requires determination and a love for discovering something new.
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I agree Adam. The day I stop learning things from them is the day it won't be quite as fun anymore.
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12:15:09pm
You have it nailed, Adam! In the mid 1990s, I purchased a 5kg box of stamps (off paper). Although far from being a beginner at that point, I had more fun with that box than just about any philatelic purchase before or since. Took me the better part of 2 years to sort through everything as my job at the time consumed 60 hours a week (plus the family stuff, much more important than work or stamps).
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fabulous Adam, and thanks for sharing both your approach and your excitement.
a couuple of quick comments. Hungary was not alone in being plagued with hyperinflation: Germany too suffered from it. The 20s were awful times in Europe, especially for the defeated Axis powers, who were left paying not only for their own war, but for the victorious Entente's too.
Russia was a cauldron of warring factions, some domestic, others from the outside. In 1919, the largest single army in Russia was neither Czarist, White, Soviet, nor Bolshevik, but Czech, made up of former POWs now called the Czech Legion. In addition to all the above-mentioned forces, there were also British and American forces near Archangel trying to retake the huge war materielle given to the Czar to prosecute the war.
David
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In the interests of full disclosure:
David said,
"In addition to all the above-mentioned forces, there were also British and American forces near Archangel trying to retake the huge war materiel given to the Czar to prosecute the war. "
Canadians are used to being left out of "history". As an student in 1950s/early 1960s America, I "learned" that the United States won the Second World War, and that the war had started with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Wrong, and wrong.
American industrial might certainly was a key, perhaps the key, to Allied Victory. But the United States was a Johnny Come Lately to the war, which had been ongoing since 1939 for Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, and other British colonies and dominions. The Pearl Harbor attack galvanized most Americans into realizing that they had a problem; prior to that, except for a handful of men like President Roosevelt, they exhibited little interest in the welfare rest of the world.
Back to the topic expanded by David: Canada was represented in Russia too, alongside the Brits and Americans. See this Wikipedia article about the Canadian Siberian Expeditionary Force. That expedition is represented philatelically by rare and expensive covers, none of which I have, unfortunately.
Bob (now a proud Canuck!)
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thanks for adding that Bob..... sorry I missed the Canadians
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Does anyone know of a Great Britain history book that describes the American colonial war?
I've always wanted to read their take on it.
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Zipper, here's a fairly recent one you may be interested in:
The War of American Independence: 1775-1783 (Modern Wars In Perspective) by Richard Middleton
"The War of American Independence is rightly seen as one of the most important conflicts of the eighteenth century, with continuing consequences for the world today.
Initially Britain viewed the struggle as no more than the suppression of a minor revolt instigated by a few unscrupulous men, being convinced that most colonists remained loyal to their empire and monarch. But wars rarely turn out as expected. While Britain viewed the conflict as one that could not be lost, the white majority in America similarly believed in the justice of their cause and also felt that they would prevail. In consequence, the British found themselves enmeshed in a conflict which they did not understand and to which they had few answers. The entry of France, and then Spain, into the war further diminished Britain’s chances, diverting their resources to the defence of the Channel, Gibraltar, Minorca, the West Indies, and trade with the rest of the world. Although George III and his ministers stubbornly held on to the belief that the American Patriots and their allies would eventually tire of the struggle, the reality was that Britain did not have the resources to fight a war on two continents. After years of indecisive sparring, the knockout blow was eventually delivered by France at Yorktown in the autumn in 1781, allowing the formation of the most significant new nation in the modern world.
In his fascinating new book, Richard Middleton provides a perceptive, comprehensive and engaging account of this complex conflict. Taking a broader view, he uncovers the fragile nature of the American Patriot cause and investigates the crucial importance of France and Spain to the achievement of the War of American Independence.
Ideal for students of American history, war/peace studies, international relations and eighteenth century politics, this impressive study will provide knowledge and insight to anyone with a general interest in the strategic direction, conduct and outcomes of the American War of Independence.
Richard Middleton was for many years Lecturer and Reader in American History at Queen’s University, Belfast. Among his various publications are The Bells of Victory: The Pitt-Newcastle Ministry and the Conduct of the Seven Years’ War, 1757–1762 (Cambridge University Press, 1985 and 2002), Colonial America: A History to 1763 (Blackwell, 1992, 1996, 2002 (and 2011 with Anne Lombard) and Pontiac’s War: Its Causes, Course and Consequences (Routledge, 2007). He is now an independent writer and scholar."
I found this at
http://www.amazon.co.uk/War-American-Independence-1775-1783-Perspective/dp/0582229421/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1430214382&sr=1-5&keywords=american+war+of+independence+books
but I guess it's on the US version as well.
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Interesting website...
http://colnect.com/en
I've never fancied collecting paper-clips but being English the tea bags idea has a certain appeal!
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04:45:04am
Several times in discussions with people who feel that Russia, and when it was the Soviet Union, was, or is, unnecessarily xenophobic, I have explained that that nation has been invaded quite a few times in the modern era by other nations or coalitions of other nations
The Brits, French, some Italian states and the then Ottoman Empire in the Crimean War.
The Japanese in the Russo-Japanese War.
The Central Powers invaded during WW I, plus large swaths of Russia where occupied after that war, including one US Marine division stationed near Vladivostok for years during the revolution.
The Japanese again in the early thirties.
The Axis powers which included Germany and Austria, Czechs, Hungarian, and Romanian divisions as well as units from France, the Netherlands, Norway and of course Finland during WW II.
And all that was in a bit over 100 years after Napoleon led troops from all over Europe to the gates of Moscow as is often depicted in books and movies.
Somewhere I have a clipping from Linns or Western Stamp Collector that covered mail from the "AEF" in Siberia 1919 to about 1922.
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thanks Charlie
Indeed, the Russians have reason to fear the outside world. Perhaps not as much as the outside world has to fear from them, but perception and reality needn't be even remotely related.
My ethnic-Estonian friends hold the Russians in utter contempt; i suspect that's true for all the Baltic states, at least from the non-ethnic Russians. Katyn remains an atrocity of the most unimaginable horror. Ukraine fears and hates Russia for good reasons extending over centuries into this day. The east bloc lost two generations of independence, and cultural and economic growth.
But I really wanted to correct a slight factual error in your accounting of incursions. Japan didn't attack Russia; instead early battles were border skirmishes, inadvertently initiated by Mongolian troops (alleid with Russia). Russia may feel attacked, but they entered enemy space. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol. At the end of the war, with mere days remaining, soviet forces drove into Manchucko, thus improving their claims at the post-war table.
As to Finland, that's completely upside down. The Finns fought invading Soviet units, but were careful never to extend beyond their own original pre-war borders, much to the chagrin of the Germans, who were hoping for a diversion from the north.
Soviets are right to worry about the BEF, AEF and Canadians (see Bob, I can be taught) in Vladivostok. But this wasn't an unprovoked attack; instead, this was an effort to regain materielle given to the Czar on the assumption that it be used in weapons manufacture in support of the Entente. When Bolsheviks began negotiating with Germany, it was clear that materielle would never be used as intended.
As an aside, my grandfather spent years in Siberia as a Hungarian POW. I knew him only a little, as he was never again a robust man, and died relatively young.
David
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Interesting guys. I have an extensive collection of German stamps and its divisions. I may now look at Russia in a whole different light...Thanks for the info
Cheryl
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As you might imagine, I've been reading a lot about the USSR lately, in an attempt to make some sort of connection between the Stalinist regime and the altogether more mundane world of stamp issues. Having done the same in recent years with the Third Reich, I feel there is a comparison to be made in how each regime used stamps to promote correct attitudes and thinking among their peoples - and whether it had any effect at all.
Internationalism has gone in and out of fashion in Soviet and post-Soviet Russia, with the decade following the 20th Party Congress in 1956 as being perhaps the 'least xenophobic' before glasnost. But xenophobia has never been far from the surface in any country: it seems to be one of those traits that emerges in the human adult, which has to be 'civilised out' by careful upbringing and education. (It is not, in my experience, inherent in young children.)
When collecting stamps it seems to me absolutely necessary to find out about the country from which they come, every bit as much as knowing about the printing processes, watermarks, perforations, etc. The stamps are a part of the country's history - a small part, granted, and not always clearly connected, but sometimes telling us much about that place's view of itself. I tried to get a little of that in my Dubasov articles, but realise that there is much more to understand.
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To return on topic ( thread taken to heart moderators note) it is not only auction lots that are a rich source of information. When you are on a chatboard make a note of any website references and when you have a spare minute visit the site ( even if it is not your primary subject)- or use Google to find appropriate sites. The amount of gratuitous information is mind-boggling.
Better still keep a register of websites that interest you (by country) so you can look up 90% of your queries without use of boards like this - not that I am trying to put us out of business you understand!
While I am not trying to put people off, I do find it a little exasperating at the absolute basic knowledge that people look for here when the information is available ( in much greater depth) on the www in less time that it has taken me to type this post. I do realise however that it is not easy to always get the methodology right to maximise the benefits of the net, and perhaps when answering the most basic questions we should add a little advice on how this information can be accessed for future reference. I usually only ask on a board when I have accessed every other source of information that I can think of. The use of this board to me is mainly the collateral information and peoples' attitudes and methods of collecting.
Malcolm
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07:49:10am
Being a stubborn, thick headed and very impatient person, asking for help on the board is, for me, tantamount to pulling over and asking for directions when driving. Malcolm is spot on regarding the wealth and depth of information available at your fingertips - it is mind boggling! But the nice thing about Stamporama, is that if all else fails, there are dozens of folk like Malcolm, with the skills to pull this knowledge from the ether, ready willing able to answer our questions.
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I've been cataloging a box of stamps I won recently at an auction at my local stamp club. I decided to catalog all the stamps in order to LEARN more about stamps (and all the subjects depicted in those stamps) from countries that I do not yet collect. While it is a tedious process at times, I do enjoy it. I have always enjoyed organizing and figuring out where things go. I have found a few stamps with a catalog value more than $10, but for the most part they are only 20 cents. But my point is that I have been learning a lot in the process. I think the things I have learned are much more satisfying than any monetary value.
Here are a few items I have picked up:
1) Understanding what pelure paper is
2) The horrible inflation in Hungary after WWII
3) Being able to identify watermarks more easily
4) Proper stamp handling and storage (mint stamps can fuse together over time)
5) The occupation of Russia into other territories
6) Using colnect.com to help identify dates and varieties
7) Understanding how to read a catalog correctly
8) Being able to use Google to help translate cyrillic letters
Anyway, I would encourage beginners to try it. Persist in it, and you will learn. I think it just requires determination and a love for discovering something new.
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re: Learning From An Auction Lot
I agree Adam. The day I stop learning things from them is the day it won't be quite as fun anymore.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
27 Apr 2015
12:15:09pm
re: Learning From An Auction Lot
You have it nailed, Adam! In the mid 1990s, I purchased a 5kg box of stamps (off paper). Although far from being a beginner at that point, I had more fun with that box than just about any philatelic purchase before or since. Took me the better part of 2 years to sort through everything as my job at the time consumed 60 hours a week (plus the family stuff, much more important than work or stamps).
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re: Learning From An Auction Lot
fabulous Adam, and thanks for sharing both your approach and your excitement.
a couuple of quick comments. Hungary was not alone in being plagued with hyperinflation: Germany too suffered from it. The 20s were awful times in Europe, especially for the defeated Axis powers, who were left paying not only for their own war, but for the victorious Entente's too.
Russia was a cauldron of warring factions, some domestic, others from the outside. In 1919, the largest single army in Russia was neither Czarist, White, Soviet, nor Bolshevik, but Czech, made up of former POWs now called the Czech Legion. In addition to all the above-mentioned forces, there were also British and American forces near Archangel trying to retake the huge war materielle given to the Czar to prosecute the war.
David
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re: Learning From An Auction Lot
In the interests of full disclosure:
David said,
"In addition to all the above-mentioned forces, there were also British and American forces near Archangel trying to retake the huge war materiel given to the Czar to prosecute the war. "
Canadians are used to being left out of "history". As an student in 1950s/early 1960s America, I "learned" that the United States won the Second World War, and that the war had started with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Wrong, and wrong.
American industrial might certainly was a key, perhaps the key, to Allied Victory. But the United States was a Johnny Come Lately to the war, which had been ongoing since 1939 for Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, and other British colonies and dominions. The Pearl Harbor attack galvanized most Americans into realizing that they had a problem; prior to that, except for a handful of men like President Roosevelt, they exhibited little interest in the welfare rest of the world.
Back to the topic expanded by David: Canada was represented in Russia too, alongside the Brits and Americans. See this Wikipedia article about the Canadian Siberian Expeditionary Force. That expedition is represented philatelically by rare and expensive covers, none of which I have, unfortunately.
Bob (now a proud Canuck!)
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re: Learning From An Auction Lot
thanks for adding that Bob..... sorry I missed the Canadians
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Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
28 Apr 2015
12:13:28am
re: Learning From An Auction Lot
Does anyone know of a Great Britain history book that describes the American colonial war?
I've always wanted to read their take on it.
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re: Learning From An Auction Lot
Zipper, here's a fairly recent one you may be interested in:
The War of American Independence: 1775-1783 (Modern Wars In Perspective) by Richard Middleton
"The War of American Independence is rightly seen as one of the most important conflicts of the eighteenth century, with continuing consequences for the world today.
Initially Britain viewed the struggle as no more than the suppression of a minor revolt instigated by a few unscrupulous men, being convinced that most colonists remained loyal to their empire and monarch. But wars rarely turn out as expected. While Britain viewed the conflict as one that could not be lost, the white majority in America similarly believed in the justice of their cause and also felt that they would prevail. In consequence, the British found themselves enmeshed in a conflict which they did not understand and to which they had few answers. The entry of France, and then Spain, into the war further diminished Britain’s chances, diverting their resources to the defence of the Channel, Gibraltar, Minorca, the West Indies, and trade with the rest of the world. Although George III and his ministers stubbornly held on to the belief that the American Patriots and their allies would eventually tire of the struggle, the reality was that Britain did not have the resources to fight a war on two continents. After years of indecisive sparring, the knockout blow was eventually delivered by France at Yorktown in the autumn in 1781, allowing the formation of the most significant new nation in the modern world.
In his fascinating new book, Richard Middleton provides a perceptive, comprehensive and engaging account of this complex conflict. Taking a broader view, he uncovers the fragile nature of the American Patriot cause and investigates the crucial importance of France and Spain to the achievement of the War of American Independence.
Ideal for students of American history, war/peace studies, international relations and eighteenth century politics, this impressive study will provide knowledge and insight to anyone with a general interest in the strategic direction, conduct and outcomes of the American War of Independence.
Richard Middleton was for many years Lecturer and Reader in American History at Queen’s University, Belfast. Among his various publications are The Bells of Victory: The Pitt-Newcastle Ministry and the Conduct of the Seven Years’ War, 1757–1762 (Cambridge University Press, 1985 and 2002), Colonial America: A History to 1763 (Blackwell, 1992, 1996, 2002 (and 2011 with Anne Lombard) and Pontiac’s War: Its Causes, Course and Consequences (Routledge, 2007). He is now an independent writer and scholar."
I found this at
http://www.amazon.co.uk/War-American-Independence-1775-1783-Perspective/dp/0582229421/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1430214382&sr=1-5&keywords=american+war+of+independence+books
but I guess it's on the US version as well.
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re: Learning From An Auction Lot
Interesting website...
http://colnect.com/en
I've never fancied collecting paper-clips but being English the tea bags idea has a certain appeal!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Apr 2015
04:45:04am
re: Learning From An Auction Lot
Several times in discussions with people who feel that Russia, and when it was the Soviet Union, was, or is, unnecessarily xenophobic, I have explained that that nation has been invaded quite a few times in the modern era by other nations or coalitions of other nations
The Brits, French, some Italian states and the then Ottoman Empire in the Crimean War.
The Japanese in the Russo-Japanese War.
The Central Powers invaded during WW I, plus large swaths of Russia where occupied after that war, including one US Marine division stationed near Vladivostok for years during the revolution.
The Japanese again in the early thirties.
The Axis powers which included Germany and Austria, Czechs, Hungarian, and Romanian divisions as well as units from France, the Netherlands, Norway and of course Finland during WW II.
And all that was in a bit over 100 years after Napoleon led troops from all over Europe to the gates of Moscow as is often depicted in books and movies.
Somewhere I have a clipping from Linns or Western Stamp Collector that covered mail from the "AEF" in Siberia 1919 to about 1922.
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re: Learning From An Auction Lot
thanks Charlie
Indeed, the Russians have reason to fear the outside world. Perhaps not as much as the outside world has to fear from them, but perception and reality needn't be even remotely related.
My ethnic-Estonian friends hold the Russians in utter contempt; i suspect that's true for all the Baltic states, at least from the non-ethnic Russians. Katyn remains an atrocity of the most unimaginable horror. Ukraine fears and hates Russia for good reasons extending over centuries into this day. The east bloc lost two generations of independence, and cultural and economic growth.
But I really wanted to correct a slight factual error in your accounting of incursions. Japan didn't attack Russia; instead early battles were border skirmishes, inadvertently initiated by Mongolian troops (alleid with Russia). Russia may feel attacked, but they entered enemy space. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol. At the end of the war, with mere days remaining, soviet forces drove into Manchucko, thus improving their claims at the post-war table.
As to Finland, that's completely upside down. The Finns fought invading Soviet units, but were careful never to extend beyond their own original pre-war borders, much to the chagrin of the Germans, who were hoping for a diversion from the north.
Soviets are right to worry about the BEF, AEF and Canadians (see Bob, I can be taught) in Vladivostok. But this wasn't an unprovoked attack; instead, this was an effort to regain materielle given to the Czar on the assumption that it be used in weapons manufacture in support of the Entente. When Bolsheviks began negotiating with Germany, it was clear that materielle would never be used as intended.
As an aside, my grandfather spent years in Siberia as a Hungarian POW. I knew him only a little, as he was never again a robust man, and died relatively young.
David
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09:05:16am
re: Learning From An Auction Lot
Interesting guys. I have an extensive collection of German stamps and its divisions. I may now look at Russia in a whole different light...Thanks for the info
Cheryl
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re: Learning From An Auction Lot
As you might imagine, I've been reading a lot about the USSR lately, in an attempt to make some sort of connection between the Stalinist regime and the altogether more mundane world of stamp issues. Having done the same in recent years with the Third Reich, I feel there is a comparison to be made in how each regime used stamps to promote correct attitudes and thinking among their peoples - and whether it had any effect at all.
Internationalism has gone in and out of fashion in Soviet and post-Soviet Russia, with the decade following the 20th Party Congress in 1956 as being perhaps the 'least xenophobic' before glasnost. But xenophobia has never been far from the surface in any country: it seems to be one of those traits that emerges in the human adult, which has to be 'civilised out' by careful upbringing and education. (It is not, in my experience, inherent in young children.)
When collecting stamps it seems to me absolutely necessary to find out about the country from which they come, every bit as much as knowing about the printing processes, watermarks, perforations, etc. The stamps are a part of the country's history - a small part, granted, and not always clearly connected, but sometimes telling us much about that place's view of itself. I tried to get a little of that in my Dubasov articles, but realise that there is much more to understand.
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04:30:31am
re: Learning From An Auction Lot
To return on topic ( thread taken to heart moderators note) it is not only auction lots that are a rich source of information. When you are on a chatboard make a note of any website references and when you have a spare minute visit the site ( even if it is not your primary subject)- or use Google to find appropriate sites. The amount of gratuitous information is mind-boggling.
Better still keep a register of websites that interest you (by country) so you can look up 90% of your queries without use of boards like this - not that I am trying to put us out of business you understand!
While I am not trying to put people off, I do find it a little exasperating at the absolute basic knowledge that people look for here when the information is available ( in much greater depth) on the www in less time that it has taken me to type this post. I do realise however that it is not easy to always get the methodology right to maximise the benefits of the net, and perhaps when answering the most basic questions we should add a little advice on how this information can be accessed for future reference. I usually only ask on a board when I have accessed every other source of information that I can think of. The use of this board to me is mainly the collateral information and peoples' attitudes and methods of collecting.
Malcolm
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
31 May 2015
07:49:10am
re: Learning From An Auction Lot
Being a stubborn, thick headed and very impatient person, asking for help on the board is, for me, tantamount to pulling over and asking for directions when driving. Malcolm is spot on regarding the wealth and depth of information available at your fingertips - it is mind boggling! But the nice thing about Stamporama, is that if all else fails, there are dozens of folk like Malcolm, with the skills to pull this knowledge from the ether, ready willing able to answer our questions.
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