Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Are they a variety or possibly faded or "washed out" ?
They came from an accumulation from late 1980's to early 90's.
Would appreciate some opinions.
Vic
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The 2 on the left are definitely changelings - I suggest chemical rather than faded. I have handled 100s maybe 1000s of these stamps and I have never seen the like.
FYI this stamp appears photo.Harrison with and without screening dots over the value, 2 bands with various variations of notched and inset bands., standard and revised type of phosphor on the bands,and with no bands from coils and booklet panes( both Phosphorised coated and Advanced(phosphorised)) papers.The ACP version also appears with screened and unscreened value. There is also a Litho.Questa 2 band version.
All in all not a simple stamp, like many Machins. At the time of issue this was the normal first class inland rate stamp. There are some minor shade varieties but nothing as spectacular as you show. The stamp was issued in the several millions, and some are quite scarce in used condition - mainly because many collectors are unaware,inexpert or uncaring about the differences. Keen Machin collectors mainly take the trouble to buy the scarcer variations direct from the post office and keep them in mint condition - hence their scarcity as used. I have handled as I say many of these stamps, and only have 3 or 4 of the most common.
Malcolm
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Malcolm, many thanks for the reply and observations, I will keep them separate for the moment, am going to order myself a dual UV light for my birthday,(well if I can't spoil myself who can) which hopefully will give me a better idea of which printing they come from.
Whatever chemical has affected them does not seem to have had an effect on the postmark, I will have to "wash/soak" a few more and see if I can replicate the result. Maybe water temperature too hot, does not seem to have affected others in the same batch.
Always the possibility that the alteration occurred before coming into my possession or having had them in the loft for 12 years has not helped. It gets kind of chilly here in Manitoba in the winter.
Thank you again, off to soak some more now, at least they take up less room afterwards.
Vic
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08:18:00pm
I'd tend to agree with Malcolm, but then noticed this minor note.
Unfortunately, I can't see the scan well enough to make a color judgement but checked the Machin Bible and wonder if what you see could be one of these;
180.2.3a T4/B2 U DP92B/C olive brown {7} B2 29.09.87 2 .
180.2.3b T4/B2 U DP92B/C olive black {7}B1 5.07.88
{7} although never officially confirmed, it is believed that these were errors of colour mix
I long ago despaired of matching Royal Mail's officially chosen color nomenclature with the reality of how things appear to my eyes. Olive brown or olive black are significantly different from "Grey Green" but would anyone consider the stamps to meet that description ?
There is also the possibility that some clever devil, seeing the note in the Handbook, has tried to make his (or her ?) own variation.
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09:29:48pm
I know nothing about machins so with that disclaimer, the first 2 look like a charcoal grey. I highly doubt that the temperature of the water changed the color. I don't think that being in extreme cold would change the color either. Is it possible they were exposed to direct sunlight for a long period of time? well At least that's my 2 pence worth.
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Thanks Charlie for the Deegam references, but the colour seems to be a pale greyish lilac, no olive in there at all.
Cannot really see why someone would forge a colour variation then post them to someone where they would not get them back.
These came from a charity accumulation that I am still sorting through from the 1990's.
As Malcolm says probably a chemical reaction somewhere along the line.
Vic
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11:31:42pm
" ... but the colour seems to be a pale greyish lilac, ..."
Pale greyish violet ????
Perhaps they are sourced from a sheet of DG180.1.1 Bluish violet, also Harrison Photogravure.
I can see that someone, un-attuned to the peculiar affectations of Machin Maniacs may have bought some stamps at a post office and used them to mail some exciting earth shaking news of their life to some friends without studying the block or color variations from other similar 18p stamps. At this point it is all speculation.
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It is unfortunate that the postmarks don't give any clues. Dated copies with a recognisable place of sorting would indicate whether these came from the same source. IF that could be established the likelihood of it being a genuine item would increase by several hundred percent!
Malcolm
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Am having trouble pinning down these two 18p decimal Machins, the two in question are the first two on scan. Have also added two "normals" for comparison.
Are they a variety or possibly faded or "washed out" ?
They came from an accumulation from late 1980's to early 90's.
Would appreciate some opinions.
Vic
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08:51:24am
re: Help with ID
The 2 on the left are definitely changelings - I suggest chemical rather than faded. I have handled 100s maybe 1000s of these stamps and I have never seen the like.
FYI this stamp appears photo.Harrison with and without screening dots over the value, 2 bands with various variations of notched and inset bands., standard and revised type of phosphor on the bands,and with no bands from coils and booklet panes( both Phosphorised coated and Advanced(phosphorised)) papers.The ACP version also appears with screened and unscreened value. There is also a Litho.Questa 2 band version.
All in all not a simple stamp, like many Machins. At the time of issue this was the normal first class inland rate stamp. There are some minor shade varieties but nothing as spectacular as you show. The stamp was issued in the several millions, and some are quite scarce in used condition - mainly because many collectors are unaware,inexpert or uncaring about the differences. Keen Machin collectors mainly take the trouble to buy the scarcer variations direct from the post office and keep them in mint condition - hence their scarcity as used. I have handled as I say many of these stamps, and only have 3 or 4 of the most common.
Malcolm
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this post
re: Help with ID
Malcolm, many thanks for the reply and observations, I will keep them separate for the moment, am going to order myself a dual UV light for my birthday,(well if I can't spoil myself who can) which hopefully will give me a better idea of which printing they come from.
Whatever chemical has affected them does not seem to have had an effect on the postmark, I will have to "wash/soak" a few more and see if I can replicate the result. Maybe water temperature too hot, does not seem to have affected others in the same batch.
Always the possibility that the alteration occurred before coming into my possession or having had them in the loft for 12 years has not helped. It gets kind of chilly here in Manitoba in the winter.
Thank you again, off to soak some more now, at least they take up less room afterwards.
Vic
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
31 May 2015
08:18:00pm
re: Help with ID
I'd tend to agree with Malcolm, but then noticed this minor note.
Unfortunately, I can't see the scan well enough to make a color judgement but checked the Machin Bible and wonder if what you see could be one of these;
180.2.3a T4/B2 U DP92B/C olive brown {7} B2 29.09.87 2 .
180.2.3b T4/B2 U DP92B/C olive black {7}B1 5.07.88
{7} although never officially confirmed, it is believed that these were errors of colour mix
I long ago despaired of matching Royal Mail's officially chosen color nomenclature with the reality of how things appear to my eyes. Olive brown or olive black are significantly different from "Grey Green" but would anyone consider the stamps to meet that description ?
There is also the possibility that some clever devil, seeing the note in the Handbook, has tried to make his (or her ?) own variation.
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Wanting to bring the joy of stamp collecting to younger generations
31 May 2015
09:29:48pm
re: Help with ID
I know nothing about machins so with that disclaimer, the first 2 look like a charcoal grey. I highly doubt that the temperature of the water changed the color. I don't think that being in extreme cold would change the color either. Is it possible they were exposed to direct sunlight for a long period of time? well At least that's my 2 pence worth.
Login to Like
this post
re: Help with ID
Thanks Charlie for the Deegam references, but the colour seems to be a pale greyish lilac, no olive in there at all.
Cannot really see why someone would forge a colour variation then post them to someone where they would not get them back.
These came from a charity accumulation that I am still sorting through from the 1990's.
As Malcolm says probably a chemical reaction somewhere along the line.
Vic
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this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
31 May 2015
11:31:42pm
re: Help with ID
" ... but the colour seems to be a pale greyish lilac, ..."
Pale greyish violet ????
Perhaps they are sourced from a sheet of DG180.1.1 Bluish violet, also Harrison Photogravure.
I can see that someone, un-attuned to the peculiar affectations of Machin Maniacs may have bought some stamps at a post office and used them to mail some exciting earth shaking news of their life to some friends without studying the block or color variations from other similar 18p stamps. At this point it is all speculation.
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06:26:56am
re: Help with ID
It is unfortunate that the postmarks don't give any clues. Dated copies with a recognisable place of sorting would indicate whether these came from the same source. IF that could be established the likelihood of it being a genuine item would increase by several hundred percent!
Malcolm
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