Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Post them here. We have a few people who seem to know what they are.
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2010ccg:
A note about the British Perfin catalogue. I was going to get it, as I was interested in King George VI stamps. It is several volumes, and will cost you several hundred Pounds Sterling.
Check out the British Perfin Society before proceeding!
I hope this helps you out.
David Giles
Ottawa, Canada
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Thankyou David ..... I shall
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I don't have the catalogue, but, I understand that there are about 20,000+ different patterns used by the UK.
You might want to try this website dedicated solely to perfins at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/456934271039532/
For myself personally, I have received, and posted, a lot of information in there.
Hope this helps?
Chimo
Bujutsu
(Modified by Moderator on 2015-05-09 08:12:05)
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Hi,
If you have an interest in British perfins then I suggest you look for a copy of the Tomkins Catalogue of Identified G.B. Perfins. There have been many editions of this and it provides a very useful list of identified perfins.
I use an old 1998 edition which lists around 8,200 different patterns identified by user.
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Thankyou guys....Great help
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Hi Everyone
When you stop to think of it, perfins have come a long way in the past 40 years or so.
I have a couple of books in my philatelic reference library published in the 50s and early 60s that state perfins are junk, and, only worthy of the waste paper basket. Wow, have they come a long way with societies devoted to them etc. They are collectible and worthy of good research.
There was also a time that philatelic judges wouldn't even give them consideration in an exhibit. They are definitely an accepted area in the hobby now. The same can be said of 'cinderella' stamps too and they also have great popularity and are now a respected in the philatelic community.
Chimo
Bujutsu
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Are perfins extinct or are they in use today? It seems that companies all work with meters and permits today.
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To the best of my knowledge, I don't think they are in use today (?) For Canadian perfins, I think the last were used on some of the "Centennial" issues, but, I could be wrong.
Chimo
Bujutsu
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there are a few universities of which I am aware that use perfins: one of them is Indiana University; also, the Collectors Club of Oregon (I think that's the group) uses them
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The State of Iowa or the Univ of Iowa still uses them. Some came on mail a few months ago, I looked them up but cannot remember which it was now. Will have to check .....
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visit angelfire.com a developing machin database
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I have come into possession of a "bagfull" of old British, German and French perfins (and some more misc countries).
Currently soaking and sorting them.
I have little interest in them, and I am curious if people here have an interest that would warrant my listing them in an Approval Book.
Not a good scan, but just to give a quick idea of what material I may be able to put together, if interest warrants it.
And just for educational purposes, if someone specializes in perfin stamps, would you be able to give us a small tutorial on perfin collecting?
rrr...
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If I can offer a comment. Perfins are best scanned from the back for clarity. I may be able to ID some of the perfins for you if I can see them clearly ( I am in the UK ).
It may be worth offering them here, but the interest is likely to be limited. You may have more success offering them via one of the specialist perfin societies.
I don't actively pursue them myself, but when they appear in mixed lots I do seperate them and display them as a small collection - and I suspect most world collectors do the same -so they are unlikely to be interested in a collection of purely perfins to purchase - although an exchange may have more response.
Malcolm
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Hi rrr,
The standard approach in Britain for classifying perfins is by the "die" or pin pattern which is usually expressed as the number of holes in each letter in turn (and then with additional information such as letter height etc. if required to distinguish dies with the same letters and pin counts).
For example, the first stamp here appears to be "DR" over "Co" (so probably business name ending "Company"). The pin counts of each letter are in turn 11, 12, 8 and 6 and this will be given as letters DR/Co with pin count 11,12/8,6.
There are between 22 and 23 thousand known British perfin patterns known with many of these still unidentified. The standard way to make an identification is to find a cover with both the perfinned stamp and advertising information and/or return address information that ties them together.
For many years the usual catalogue was the Tompkins Catalogue of Identified Perfins and I still use the old 8th edition from 1998 which was published by the Perfin Society; however, the Society now publishes a much more detailed set of catalogues.
If I look up "DR/Co 11,12.8,6" I find two patterns listed, both for the Dunlop Rubber Company Ltd in Birmingham. One has letters 4.5 mm high and the other has letters 5 mm high in the top row and 4.5 mm high in the bottom row. The first is known from the period 1925 to 1965 and the second from 1935 to 1945.
Best wishes,
Nigel
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Anyone know anything about this perfin? It's marked "WCC". I have another on the same issue marked "BOE".
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The WCC is Western Cartridge Company and is common. The BOE is the City of Chicago Board of Education - there are 4 variants shown - all are common.
Perfins are interesting and can provide many opportunities for flyspecking and "proof of usage" covers are still relatively easy to find. BFG is B F Goodrich and there are 47 different different varieties shown in my 1979 Catalog of US Perfins. Many look absolutely identical to each other at first glance. It is difficult to figure out the differences in many cases. Below are 30 of them - they are all from different locations and the difference is in the control pin locations.
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Thank you Carol, you're quick!
From what I'm reading online, Western Cartridge Company had an illustrious past. City of Chicago Board of Ed. makes sense because there are many Chicago cancels in this hoard I'm going through. I've got two of the varieties of BOE here. Thanks for that info.
Ernie
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When were the first US perfins done? I do have some on my 1903 Ben Franklin stamp, and like to find them on cover. And is there any history on perfin perforating equipment? I'm thinking a parallel to the private perforations and early stamp affixing equipment?
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From the Perfin Club's New Member FAQs:
"in 1868 an
Englishman, Joseph Sloper, invented the machine for
perforating initials (Perfins) and obtained the
endorsement of the British Post Office. In addition
to referring prospective users to Sloper,"
And . . .
"In the U.S., official authorization for the use of
Perfins was not given until 1908. There were only
two stipulations, which still exist today: 1) the
punches or perforations shall not exceed one thirtysecond
of an inch in diameter and 2) the whole space
occupied by the identifying device shall not exceed
one-half inch square."
The Perfins Club
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02:40:39pm
Can anyone tell me if there is a website that would help me identify the British perfins? I know there is a catalogue but I just want to identify the company/place/etc that used the stamps with their perfin I`m not interested in value at this time.Just want to identify the stamp as I place it in the album Thanks
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re: perfins
Post them here. We have a few people who seem to know what they are.
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re: perfins
2010ccg:
A note about the British Perfin catalogue. I was going to get it, as I was interested in King George VI stamps. It is several volumes, and will cost you several hundred Pounds Sterling.
Check out the British Perfin Society before proceeding!
I hope this helps you out.
David Giles
Ottawa, Canada
Login to Like
this post
re: perfins
I don't have the catalogue, but, I understand that there are about 20,000+ different patterns used by the UK.
You might want to try this website dedicated solely to perfins at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/456934271039532/
For myself personally, I have received, and posted, a lot of information in there.
Hope this helps?
Chimo
Bujutsu
(Modified by Moderator on 2015-05-09 08:12:05)
Login to Like
this post
re: perfins
Hi,
If you have an interest in British perfins then I suggest you look for a copy of the Tomkins Catalogue of Identified G.B. Perfins. There have been many editions of this and it provides a very useful list of identified perfins.
I use an old 1998 edition which lists around 8,200 different patterns identified by user.
Login to Like
this post
re: perfins
Hi Everyone
When you stop to think of it, perfins have come a long way in the past 40 years or so.
I have a couple of books in my philatelic reference library published in the 50s and early 60s that state perfins are junk, and, only worthy of the waste paper basket. Wow, have they come a long way with societies devoted to them etc. They are collectible and worthy of good research.
There was also a time that philatelic judges wouldn't even give them consideration in an exhibit. They are definitely an accepted area in the hobby now. The same can be said of 'cinderella' stamps too and they also have great popularity and are now a respected in the philatelic community.
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: perfins
Are perfins extinct or are they in use today? It seems that companies all work with meters and permits today.
Login to Like
this post
re: perfins
To the best of my knowledge, I don't think they are in use today (?) For Canadian perfins, I think the last were used on some of the "Centennial" issues, but, I could be wrong.
Chimo
Bujutsu
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this post
Auctions
re: perfins
there are a few universities of which I am aware that use perfins: one of them is Indiana University; also, the Collectors Club of Oregon (I think that's the group) uses them
Login to Like
this post
re: perfins
The State of Iowa or the Univ of Iowa still uses them. Some came on mail a few months ago, I looked them up but cannot remember which it was now. Will have to check .....
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re: perfins
visit angelfire.com a developing machin database
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
18 Oct 2015
04:07:28pm
re: perfins
I have come into possession of a "bagfull" of old British, German and French perfins (and some more misc countries).
Currently soaking and sorting them.
I have little interest in them, and I am curious if people here have an interest that would warrant my listing them in an Approval Book.
Not a good scan, but just to give a quick idea of what material I may be able to put together, if interest warrants it.
And just for educational purposes, if someone specializes in perfin stamps, would you be able to give us a small tutorial on perfin collecting?
rrr...
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this post
01:00:06am
re: perfins
If I can offer a comment. Perfins are best scanned from the back for clarity. I may be able to ID some of the perfins for you if I can see them clearly ( I am in the UK ).
It may be worth offering them here, but the interest is likely to be limited. You may have more success offering them via one of the specialist perfin societies.
I don't actively pursue them myself, but when they appear in mixed lots I do seperate them and display them as a small collection - and I suspect most world collectors do the same -so they are unlikely to be interested in a collection of purely perfins to purchase - although an exchange may have more response.
Malcolm
Login to Like
this post
re: perfins
Hi rrr,
The standard approach in Britain for classifying perfins is by the "die" or pin pattern which is usually expressed as the number of holes in each letter in turn (and then with additional information such as letter height etc. if required to distinguish dies with the same letters and pin counts).
For example, the first stamp here appears to be "DR" over "Co" (so probably business name ending "Company"). The pin counts of each letter are in turn 11, 12, 8 and 6 and this will be given as letters DR/Co with pin count 11,12/8,6.
There are between 22 and 23 thousand known British perfin patterns known with many of these still unidentified. The standard way to make an identification is to find a cover with both the perfinned stamp and advertising information and/or return address information that ties them together.
For many years the usual catalogue was the Tompkins Catalogue of Identified Perfins and I still use the old 8th edition from 1998 which was published by the Perfin Society; however, the Society now publishes a much more detailed set of catalogues.
If I look up "DR/Co 11,12.8,6" I find two patterns listed, both for the Dunlop Rubber Company Ltd in Birmingham. One has letters 4.5 mm high and the other has letters 5 mm high in the top row and 4.5 mm high in the bottom row. The first is known from the period 1925 to 1965 and the second from 1935 to 1945.
Best wishes,
Nigel
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this post
re: perfins
Anyone know anything about this perfin? It's marked "WCC". I have another on the same issue marked "BOE".
Login to Like
this post
re: perfins
The WCC is Western Cartridge Company and is common. The BOE is the City of Chicago Board of Education - there are 4 variants shown - all are common.
Perfins are interesting and can provide many opportunities for flyspecking and "proof of usage" covers are still relatively easy to find. BFG is B F Goodrich and there are 47 different different varieties shown in my 1979 Catalog of US Perfins. Many look absolutely identical to each other at first glance. It is difficult to figure out the differences in many cases. Below are 30 of them - they are all from different locations and the difference is in the control pin locations.
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likes this post.
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re: perfins
Thank you Carol, you're quick!
From what I'm reading online, Western Cartridge Company had an illustrious past. City of Chicago Board of Ed. makes sense because there are many Chicago cancels in this hoard I'm going through. I've got two of the varieties of BOE here. Thanks for that info.
Ernie
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: perfins
When were the first US perfins done? I do have some on my 1903 Ben Franklin stamp, and like to find them on cover. And is there any history on perfin perforating equipment? I'm thinking a parallel to the private perforations and early stamp affixing equipment?
Login to Like
this post
re: perfins
From the Perfin Club's New Member FAQs:
"in 1868 an
Englishman, Joseph Sloper, invented the machine for
perforating initials (Perfins) and obtained the
endorsement of the British Post Office. In addition
to referring prospective users to Sloper,"
And . . .
"In the U.S., official authorization for the use of
Perfins was not given until 1908. There were only
two stipulations, which still exist today: 1) the
punches or perforations shall not exceed one thirtysecond
of an inch in diameter and 2) the whole space
occupied by the identifying device shall not exceed
one-half inch square."
The Perfins Club
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