Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Since I've only been studying US, the "biggies" for me have been high value columbians, high value Trans Mississippi, Sc 1 and 2, the Zepps etc etc. NONE of these stamps are particularly scarce. One can log on to ebay on ANY day and obtain a MNH copy or a faulty used copy IF you've got the money. They're there waiting on you.
My question is, what are some truly elusive stamps that are out there that might be affordable but aren't listed in every auction catalogue? What are some examples of stamps that would be some really neat finds.
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Worldwide that is
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Ernie,
You might want to back that up one post. That is a HUGE question for US stamps alone! To cast the net to worldwide is too much, IMHO.
For US, some of the more elusive stamps that you can look for that would cost less than a high value Columbian are:
Uncommon 3rd Bureau coils
Reverse printings of Overrun countries
KORPA flaw on 921
Error selvage on 2189
Four varieties of 3897
That's just the tip of the iceberg!
Lars
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You'd also have to define "affordable". What is "affordable" to one person may be too costly for another.
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Does anyone know how many of the high value Zeppelins are available for collectors? I read on Wikipedia that 1,000,000 of each value have been printed, but only 93,336 of the 0.65 / 72,428 of the 1.30 and 61,296 of the 2.60 were sold. What happened to the remaining 2,8 million stamps?
I know that it is all a matter of demand, and demand for American stamps is obviously very high. For instance, I recently found a stamp from San Marino, Sc. 133 / Mi. 162 that has a catalogue value of $275, which is more or less comparable with the c.v. for 65 cents / 1.30 Zeps, only there were just 8,500 issued. That is almost 1/10th of the amount of the Zeppelins, yet it does not show in the c.v.
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Janismon, exactly. Out of 8500 issued how many have survived?? Just thought it would be good "infotainment" to throw out some stamps that are known sleepers.
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Ernie and Jan-Simon point out the two halves of the coin: rarity AND demand.
I have a Santa Claus Post label (a Cinderella) which is the only known variety from a pane whose complete construction can only be guessed at. It is tied to cover. And was a gift from one of our now-inactive members (thanks again, Zeb). Because I collect seals and SCP, I know what it is; those who read the Seal News journal know of its existence, but it isn't in the catalogue of SCP, because it hasn't been updated in a couple of decades. On the right day, I could get $50. Similarly, early seals command much higher prices than their far rarer more recent cousins. It's ALL about demand here, because supply is abundant in the expensive material and absent in the recent material. Go figure.
David
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Jansimon
Re Zeppelins - this is from the 3 volume 1937 History of US Stamps - great information
This is the excerpt from a notice sent by:
"THIRD ASSISTANT POSTMASTER GENERAL
Washington, Apr. 3, 1930."
Omitted -He then goes on to list the stamps and the post offices
"Postmasters at the above post offices will be sent a supply of the stamps without
requisition, together with special instructions in regard to the sale and accounting.
This special issue will be limited to 1,000,000 stamps of each denomination,
which will remain on sale at the above post offices until the departure of the Graf
Zeppelin from Lakehurst, N. J., on the return flight. The stamps then remaining
unsold will be recalled for destruction. As soon as the above quantities are printed
the plates will be destroyed and no additional printing authorized.
The Graf Zeppelirr stamps. will be continued on sale at the Philatelic Agency of
the Department until June 30, 1930, for the benefit of stamp collectors."
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So what do you think: have they really been destroyed or could it be a significant amount has been withheld and have been put on the collector's marketsince July 1930?
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Whenever I hear that large quantities of a stamp were destroyed I wonder?
They were sent to about 40 post offices & they had to "account" for what they sold but there is no mention of what was destroyed. Any post office employee would have appreciated the potential value of these so......
As for what ernieijax mentioned
" NONE of these stamps are particularly scarce. One can log on to ebay on ANY day and obtain a MNH copy or a faulty used copy IF you've got the money. They're there waiting on you. "
His notation may partially answer the question.
Many much rarer stamps hardly ever come up on auctions and don't get exposure. Exposure drives the prices up especially on Asian auctions where some countries like the PRC & US are in big demand more for "investments" than collecting.
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David,
Thanks for sharing that. It sounds like a golden opportunity for you. Sometimes all it takes to spur demand is a well written, authoritative reference book. I hate to throw out a numismatic reference but it's the first to come to mind. Civil War Tokens, substitutes for small change during the War of Northern Aggression, were practically ignored numismatically for a hundred years. Once Fuld wrote the book collecting took off. They are still infinitely more rare than US coins. A token with only 100 known examples can be purchased for the price of an AU Standing Liberty Quarter.
Write the book and then sell the cover for $5,000!
-Ernie
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"As for what ernieijax mentioned
Quote:
" NONE of these stamps are particularly scarce. One can log on to ebay on ANY day and obtain a MNH copy or a faulty used copy IF you've got the money. They're there waiting on you. ""
eBay has become the great equalizer of 'scarce'. A funny thing happens when you take all the collectibles in the world and put them into one searchable database. In both of my hobbies, items that once were unseen and considered elusive, have become fairly common. If you don't see it on eBay today, just start a search agent and they'll be sending you emails as new items appear.
For instance, back in the old days, I had never seen a Scott 300b booklet pane in person. I never even saw one for sale in Linns, at mail auction or at all the NYC area shows I attended... the big ones too! eBay comes along and there's several to many of this pane for sale at any time. When I acquired my first copy, maybe ten years ago, I sat there and sniped it, protecting it like it was the only copy in the world. Since then I've bought another five copies at bargain prices by stalking auctions that started out low.
As far as issued in very low quantities, look at USA private perforations. It took me 40 years to collect the full Scott listed set, as well as a few uncataloged varieties. Even rarer? I still haven't even seen many of these used on cover.
For stamps like USA 1 or Zeppelins, they are costly because they are so iconic. In my scattered and incomplete collection, I do have a USA 1 and a 65 cent Zeppelin. I bought them because I thought they were cool. So the market for them is pretty wide, everyone wants one! There are no doubt US stamps that are scarcer, but they are 19th century stamps in the middle of sets that only those finishing up that specific set would be seeking.
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I think Tom is right: it is their iconic nature that draws demand, and it is demand, not scarcity, that creates the price structure.
I love Ernie's references and believe they are all on target, although I am somewhat concerned (Bobbie, avert your eyes, both as moderator and Texan, although you're now from the state that denied certain gentlemen access to a certain hill in Pennsylvania) about the reference to the war of northern aggression. Is that the war that began when a certain General Beauregard, CSA, ordered cannons to fire upon a Major Anderson, USA?
And, if writing a book, any book, would garner me $5,000, I'd be on it like.... similies elude me.
David
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... W.O.N.A. Buwhahahahahah!!! 
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you're right, they W.O.N. We just commemorated the sesquicentennial of the laying down of arms
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I think I'm going to start a stamp exhibit on Southern American Culture. Who can name the delicious sothern delicacy pictured on this stamp? 
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02:19:50pm
You referring to the corn bread (looks like jalapeno corn bread) or the brown beans?
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I'm starting a new thread on what a Southern American stamp exhibit could look like.
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My mother had a recipe she called "Tamale Pie" It was like chili with a corn bread crust
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Not a Southern American Dish
Quebec egg pie & baked beans in maple syrup with slices of Oka cheese 
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Benfranklin, I've had that its delicious. Nl1947, no offense but that sounds disgusting. 
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Has this exchange become "inane"? Lol
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Not sure if this post belongs here or not but this is the kind of free flow of ideas that, to me, make this CLUB fun. It went from an observation about relative scarcity, to jokes about euphemisms for the Civil War to a discussion about some strange Canadian culinary dish. Theresa! where are you??? Lol
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Talking about China...
rrr
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I agree that stamps like the Zeps are iconic, but their price also stems from the fact that they are also the only expensive stamps you need to complete a comprehensive US Airmail collection (unless you need the inverted Jenny, of course). You can see yourself actually completing that part of your collection, so you would be more likely to want a Zep than one more of dozens of third bureau stamps that all start looking alike!
As for US Commemoratives, with the exception of two stamps that I consider minor perf varieties and don't include anyway (613 Hardin sheet waste and 1789B John Paul Jones) the only really expensive stamps are the high dollar Columbians, Trans-Miss, White Plains S/S, and Legends of the West error pane.
I spent a lot more time, effort, and money completing Airmail and Commemoratives instead of adding one more definitive to an endless list of missing items.
In numismatics (coins), the same thing applies to the 1909S VDB Wheat Penny. It's really not THAT rare, but it's the scarcest one to COMPLETE a Wheat Penny collection, and what kid didn't start out collecting pennies and hoping to find that elusive creature?
Lars
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I agree that scarcity other than "big ticket" items tends to be irrelevant.
A silly example. Once upon a time the Canadian Government wanted to build a Hydro Electric Power Station at an out of the way place called Little Long Rapids,Ontario ( population:was there any?). So they built a town for the workers...with a post office. In the fullness of time the dam was built, the town demolished, the post office closed and the place became Little Long (without the Rapids )population zero ( it's fully automated ).
Fast forward a few years.A keen postmark collector aquires a common stamp with a Little Long Rapids postmark, and does the appropriate research.
Consider. The post office was open for a short time, but the mail usage was heavy ( all those temporarily migrant workers). What was the survival rate of legible complete postmarks?
Conclusion. There must be far fewer examples of this postmark than surviving penny blacks.
Is it therefore more valuable than a penny black ??
QED
Malcolm
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malcolm, I think you just raised the demand for Little Long Rapids postmarks.
I think there could be some marketing involved to raise demand. Does the Postal Exhibit do this for a collection? or a single stamp issue?
I remember when I was a kid, the British Guiana 1c went on a World Tour before it was sold for the $1 Million back in the 70's.
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The British Guiana 1 cent was on display at Interphil '76. I got to see it there. It is an unimpressive looking stamp, but that didn't stop me from being in total awe of it.
I don't remember if it was on display at Capex '78. I had alot of fun at that exhibition. The week I took to go there was my first paid vacation from work!
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Just to make myself clear - it was a rhetorical question to which we all know the answer !!
However I think it does throw some light on the myth of rarity or scarcity as related to value. Someone said that it is a lot more about demand than supply.
As far as marketing is concerned ( tongue in cheek), in the unlikely event of a second postmark coming into my collection I would try to find a relevant Canadian website or auction site and restate my complete scenario shown above - and see how far it flies.Or I could also put onto a "ghost-town" website ( yes there is one which I visited during my web-search!). That may actually create some demand.
When selling unusual material which might have specialist application, bear in mind that there are people who collect ephemera on all sorts of subjects as part of their interest,and if you can search out "an angle" you might find that it is more desirable for one of these people than a stamp collector. How do you think that antique dealers find a market for items at the "junk" end of their stock? Railways,war related items,aircraft and ships come to mind, although these do have a strong philatelic following anyway but a little imagination could find whole new markets - especially if you are able to amass a small selection of related matter.
Malcolm
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Malcolm said,
"When selling unusual material which might have specialist application, "
one shouldn't rely on specialists alone to drive the price up. You can't increase rarity, but in a specialist world, you can, sometimes, increase demand. I saw this with a cover from a fort in the western territories. Being a territorial cover was good, and the seller can count on bids from territorial collectors, but including information on the sender/addressee can, and did, add lots of cachet, as he was an officer serving with the 9th Cavalry (remember, buffalo soldiers from an earlier thread) and later served with the first US volunteer Cavalry, which unit has been featured here in other threads.
Putting those things together, the price went through the roof
David
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my point, which i realize I didn't really make, is that one cannot expect everyone to know what the 9th Cavalry or 1st US Volunteer Cavalry are, nor that a specific soldier is part of one or both units. Adding that information makes all the difference between a $20 and $250 sale.
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Hi all
This is an interesting thread. It also got me thinking of the past regarding Hitler head stamps. Now, we philatelists know that for the majority of these stamps, they are dirt cheap, with some exceptions of course. However, I think the pricing in some cases is determined from the source selling them at the time. For instance, getting back to the Hitler heads, I was at an antique show some years ago, and, there was a dealer who specialized in militaria worldwide. He had some Hitler blocks of stamps that were MNH (I am referring to the common stamps listed in Scott's as #506-527). I looked at the prices and couldn't believe it. I would say about ten times the catalogue value!! These are the ordinary Hitler heads too. I had to ask him why he thought these were so expensive. Military collectors seldom think of stamps but every thing else military like guns, helmets, uniforms etc., He told me that they were hard to find and military collectors were willing to pay that price (at least back then about 10 - 12 years ago).
I am not sure if they have their own type of catalogue, but, they think they are expensive. So, to sum up, I wonder if the price is determined from the source (or type of collector?) and not necessarily what is readily available. I don't know myself to be honest how they determine this??
BTW - those same stamps I referred to haven't changed in price (catalogue value anyway) at all since I was at the show.
Chimo
Bujutsu
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"and military collectors were willing to pay that price"
and, so, on the other end of the equation, demand AGAIN, not rarity, determines price.
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The case of the Hitler heads is not unusual in the UK, either. Many non-philatelic collectors derive a manly thrill from possessing Hitler images - I know I did at the age of 11 - and I have often seen Third Reich stamps offered in antique shops (sometimes artfully mounted) at ridiculous prices, invariably accompanied by the word "genuine", as if the outside world expected any given stamp to be some sort of fake.
Philatelic items at non-philatelic outlets tend to be offered at far higher than catalogue value. This is not, I think, due to ignorance on the part of the seller, but sheer avarice and the realisation that they can get away with it. For some reason that applies far less to books - at the same antiques centre I bought two Wisdens for £15 apiece after the seller consulted his catalogue: they were roughly one-third catalogue, and half an online dealer's price.
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When I was a kid in the early 1970s and lived in Germany, the Hitler head stamps, inflation era stamps and notgeld was almost a give away at shows. I bought nogeld for a dime a note. I still have one full sheet of Hitler heads framed, which was up in my room in my teens. I think I paid a dollar for it.
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I recently obtained a copy of Scott Classic stamps of the world up to 1940. It's a great reference book! I've collected US stamps (used pre 1940) off and on for about 20 years. I've had virtually zero exposure to world wide stamps and I've enjoyed studying this reference book.
Since I've only been studying US, the "biggies" for me have been high value columbians, high value Trans Mississippi, Sc 1 and 2, the Zepps etc etc. NONE of these stamps are particularly scarce. One can log on to ebay on ANY day and obtain a MNH copy or a faulty used copy IF you've got the money. They're there waiting on you.
My question is, what are some truly elusive stamps that are out there that might be affordable but aren't listed in every auction catalogue? What are some examples of stamps that would be some really neat finds.
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re: Relative Scarcity
Ernie,
You might want to back that up one post. That is a HUGE question for US stamps alone! To cast the net to worldwide is too much, IMHO.
For US, some of the more elusive stamps that you can look for that would cost less than a high value Columbian are:
Uncommon 3rd Bureau coils
Reverse printings of Overrun countries
KORPA flaw on 921
Error selvage on 2189
Four varieties of 3897
That's just the tip of the iceberg!
Lars
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re: Relative Scarcity
You'd also have to define "affordable". What is "affordable" to one person may be too costly for another.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Relative Scarcity
Does anyone know how many of the high value Zeppelins are available for collectors? I read on Wikipedia that 1,000,000 of each value have been printed, but only 93,336 of the 0.65 / 72,428 of the 1.30 and 61,296 of the 2.60 were sold. What happened to the remaining 2,8 million stamps?
I know that it is all a matter of demand, and demand for American stamps is obviously very high. For instance, I recently found a stamp from San Marino, Sc. 133 / Mi. 162 that has a catalogue value of $275, which is more or less comparable with the c.v. for 65 cents / 1.30 Zeps, only there were just 8,500 issued. That is almost 1/10th of the amount of the Zeppelins, yet it does not show in the c.v.
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re: Relative Scarcity
Janismon, exactly. Out of 8500 issued how many have survived?? Just thought it would be good "infotainment" to throw out some stamps that are known sleepers.
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Auctions
re: Relative Scarcity
Ernie and Jan-Simon point out the two halves of the coin: rarity AND demand.
I have a Santa Claus Post label (a Cinderella) which is the only known variety from a pane whose complete construction can only be guessed at. It is tied to cover. And was a gift from one of our now-inactive members (thanks again, Zeb). Because I collect seals and SCP, I know what it is; those who read the Seal News journal know of its existence, but it isn't in the catalogue of SCP, because it hasn't been updated in a couple of decades. On the right day, I could get $50. Similarly, early seals command much higher prices than their far rarer more recent cousins. It's ALL about demand here, because supply is abundant in the expensive material and absent in the recent material. Go figure.
David
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08:06:18am
re: Relative Scarcity
Jansimon
Re Zeppelins - this is from the 3 volume 1937 History of US Stamps - great information
This is the excerpt from a notice sent by:
"THIRD ASSISTANT POSTMASTER GENERAL
Washington, Apr. 3, 1930."
Omitted -He then goes on to list the stamps and the post offices
"Postmasters at the above post offices will be sent a supply of the stamps without
requisition, together with special instructions in regard to the sale and accounting.
This special issue will be limited to 1,000,000 stamps of each denomination,
which will remain on sale at the above post offices until the departure of the Graf
Zeppelin from Lakehurst, N. J., on the return flight. The stamps then remaining
unsold will be recalled for destruction. As soon as the above quantities are printed
the plates will be destroyed and no additional printing authorized.
The Graf Zeppelirr stamps. will be continued on sale at the Philatelic Agency of
the Department until June 30, 1930, for the benefit of stamp collectors."
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Relative Scarcity
So what do you think: have they really been destroyed or could it be a significant amount has been withheld and have been put on the collector's marketsince July 1930?
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08:52:05am
re: Relative Scarcity
Whenever I hear that large quantities of a stamp were destroyed I wonder?
They were sent to about 40 post offices & they had to "account" for what they sold but there is no mention of what was destroyed. Any post office employee would have appreciated the potential value of these so......
As for what ernieijax mentioned
" NONE of these stamps are particularly scarce. One can log on to ebay on ANY day and obtain a MNH copy or a faulty used copy IF you've got the money. They're there waiting on you. "
His notation may partially answer the question.
Many much rarer stamps hardly ever come up on auctions and don't get exposure. Exposure drives the prices up especially on Asian auctions where some countries like the PRC & US are in big demand more for "investments" than collecting.
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re: Relative Scarcity
David,
Thanks for sharing that. It sounds like a golden opportunity for you. Sometimes all it takes to spur demand is a well written, authoritative reference book. I hate to throw out a numismatic reference but it's the first to come to mind. Civil War Tokens, substitutes for small change during the War of Northern Aggression, were practically ignored numismatically for a hundred years. Once Fuld wrote the book collecting took off. They are still infinitely more rare than US coins. A token with only 100 known examples can be purchased for the price of an AU Standing Liberty Quarter.
Write the book and then sell the cover for $5,000!
-Ernie
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Approvals
re: Relative Scarcity
"As for what ernieijax mentioned
Quote:
" NONE of these stamps are particularly scarce. One can log on to ebay on ANY day and obtain a MNH copy or a faulty used copy IF you've got the money. They're there waiting on you. ""
eBay has become the great equalizer of 'scarce'. A funny thing happens when you take all the collectibles in the world and put them into one searchable database. In both of my hobbies, items that once were unseen and considered elusive, have become fairly common. If you don't see it on eBay today, just start a search agent and they'll be sending you emails as new items appear.
For instance, back in the old days, I had never seen a Scott 300b booklet pane in person. I never even saw one for sale in Linns, at mail auction or at all the NYC area shows I attended... the big ones too! eBay comes along and there's several to many of this pane for sale at any time. When I acquired my first copy, maybe ten years ago, I sat there and sniped it, protecting it like it was the only copy in the world. Since then I've bought another five copies at bargain prices by stalking auctions that started out low.
As far as issued in very low quantities, look at USA private perforations. It took me 40 years to collect the full Scott listed set, as well as a few uncataloged varieties. Even rarer? I still haven't even seen many of these used on cover.
For stamps like USA 1 or Zeppelins, they are costly because they are so iconic. In my scattered and incomplete collection, I do have a USA 1 and a 65 cent Zeppelin. I bought them because I thought they were cool. So the market for them is pretty wide, everyone wants one! There are no doubt US stamps that are scarcer, but they are 19th century stamps in the middle of sets that only those finishing up that specific set would be seeking.
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re: Relative Scarcity
I think Tom is right: it is their iconic nature that draws demand, and it is demand, not scarcity, that creates the price structure.
I love Ernie's references and believe they are all on target, although I am somewhat concerned (Bobbie, avert your eyes, both as moderator and Texan, although you're now from the state that denied certain gentlemen access to a certain hill in Pennsylvania) about the reference to the war of northern aggression. Is that the war that began when a certain General Beauregard, CSA, ordered cannons to fire upon a Major Anderson, USA?
And, if writing a book, any book, would garner me $5,000, I'd be on it like.... similies elude me.
David
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re: Relative Scarcity
... W.O.N.A. Buwhahahahahah!!!
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Auctions
re: Relative Scarcity
you're right, they W.O.N. We just commemorated the sesquicentennial of the laying down of arms
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re: Relative Scarcity
I think I'm going to start a stamp exhibit on Southern American Culture. Who can name the delicious sothern delicacy pictured on this stamp?
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
08 May 2015
02:19:50pm
re: Relative Scarcity
You referring to the corn bread (looks like jalapeno corn bread) or the brown beans?
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re: Relative Scarcity
I'm starting a new thread on what a Southern American stamp exhibit could look like.
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Approvals
re: Relative Scarcity
My mother had a recipe she called "Tamale Pie" It was like chili with a corn bread crust
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04:41:22pm
re: Relative Scarcity
Not a Southern American Dish
Quebec egg pie & baked beans in maple syrup with slices of Oka cheese
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re: Relative Scarcity
Benfranklin, I've had that its delicious. Nl1947, no offense but that sounds disgusting.
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re: Relative Scarcity
Has this exchange become "inane"? Lol
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re: Relative Scarcity
Not sure if this post belongs here or not but this is the kind of free flow of ideas that, to me, make this CLUB fun. It went from an observation about relative scarcity, to jokes about euphemisms for the Civil War to a discussion about some strange Canadian culinary dish. Theresa! where are you??? Lol
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
08 May 2015
05:37:32pm
re: Relative Scarcity
Talking about China...
rrr
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re: Relative Scarcity
I agree that stamps like the Zeps are iconic, but their price also stems from the fact that they are also the only expensive stamps you need to complete a comprehensive US Airmail collection (unless you need the inverted Jenny, of course). You can see yourself actually completing that part of your collection, so you would be more likely to want a Zep than one more of dozens of third bureau stamps that all start looking alike!
As for US Commemoratives, with the exception of two stamps that I consider minor perf varieties and don't include anyway (613 Hardin sheet waste and 1789B John Paul Jones) the only really expensive stamps are the high dollar Columbians, Trans-Miss, White Plains S/S, and Legends of the West error pane.
I spent a lot more time, effort, and money completing Airmail and Commemoratives instead of adding one more definitive to an endless list of missing items.
In numismatics (coins), the same thing applies to the 1909S VDB Wheat Penny. It's really not THAT rare, but it's the scarcest one to COMPLETE a Wheat Penny collection, and what kid didn't start out collecting pennies and hoping to find that elusive creature?
Lars
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05:48:37am
re: Relative Scarcity
I agree that scarcity other than "big ticket" items tends to be irrelevant.
A silly example. Once upon a time the Canadian Government wanted to build a Hydro Electric Power Station at an out of the way place called Little Long Rapids,Ontario ( population:was there any?). So they built a town for the workers...with a post office. In the fullness of time the dam was built, the town demolished, the post office closed and the place became Little Long (without the Rapids )population zero ( it's fully automated ).
Fast forward a few years.A keen postmark collector aquires a common stamp with a Little Long Rapids postmark, and does the appropriate research.
Consider. The post office was open for a short time, but the mail usage was heavy ( all those temporarily migrant workers). What was the survival rate of legible complete postmarks?
Conclusion. There must be far fewer examples of this postmark than surviving penny blacks.
Is it therefore more valuable than a penny black ??
QED
Malcolm
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08:40:58am
re: Relative Scarcity
malcolm, I think you just raised the demand for Little Long Rapids postmarks.
I think there could be some marketing involved to raise demand. Does the Postal Exhibit do this for a collection? or a single stamp issue?
I remember when I was a kid, the British Guiana 1c went on a World Tour before it was sold for the $1 Million back in the 70's.
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re: Relative Scarcity
The British Guiana 1 cent was on display at Interphil '76. I got to see it there. It is an unimpressive looking stamp, but that didn't stop me from being in total awe of it.
I don't remember if it was on display at Capex '78. I had alot of fun at that exhibition. The week I took to go there was my first paid vacation from work!
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07:45:03am
re: Relative Scarcity
Just to make myself clear - it was a rhetorical question to which we all know the answer !!
However I think it does throw some light on the myth of rarity or scarcity as related to value. Someone said that it is a lot more about demand than supply.
As far as marketing is concerned ( tongue in cheek), in the unlikely event of a second postmark coming into my collection I would try to find a relevant Canadian website or auction site and restate my complete scenario shown above - and see how far it flies.Or I could also put onto a "ghost-town" website ( yes there is one which I visited during my web-search!). That may actually create some demand.
When selling unusual material which might have specialist application, bear in mind that there are people who collect ephemera on all sorts of subjects as part of their interest,and if you can search out "an angle" you might find that it is more desirable for one of these people than a stamp collector. How do you think that antique dealers find a market for items at the "junk" end of their stock? Railways,war related items,aircraft and ships come to mind, although these do have a strong philatelic following anyway but a little imagination could find whole new markets - especially if you are able to amass a small selection of related matter.
Malcolm
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re: Relative Scarcity
Malcolm said,
"When selling unusual material which might have specialist application, "
one shouldn't rely on specialists alone to drive the price up. You can't increase rarity, but in a specialist world, you can, sometimes, increase demand. I saw this with a cover from a fort in the western territories. Being a territorial cover was good, and the seller can count on bids from territorial collectors, but including information on the sender/addressee can, and did, add lots of cachet, as he was an officer serving with the 9th Cavalry (remember, buffalo soldiers from an earlier thread) and later served with the first US volunteer Cavalry, which unit has been featured here in other threads.
Putting those things together, the price went through the roof
David
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my point, which i realize I didn't really make, is that one cannot expect everyone to know what the 9th Cavalry or 1st US Volunteer Cavalry are, nor that a specific soldier is part of one or both units. Adding that information makes all the difference between a $20 and $250 sale.
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Hi all
This is an interesting thread. It also got me thinking of the past regarding Hitler head stamps. Now, we philatelists know that for the majority of these stamps, they are dirt cheap, with some exceptions of course. However, I think the pricing in some cases is determined from the source selling them at the time. For instance, getting back to the Hitler heads, I was at an antique show some years ago, and, there was a dealer who specialized in militaria worldwide. He had some Hitler blocks of stamps that were MNH (I am referring to the common stamps listed in Scott's as #506-527). I looked at the prices and couldn't believe it. I would say about ten times the catalogue value!! These are the ordinary Hitler heads too. I had to ask him why he thought these were so expensive. Military collectors seldom think of stamps but every thing else military like guns, helmets, uniforms etc., He told me that they were hard to find and military collectors were willing to pay that price (at least back then about 10 - 12 years ago).
I am not sure if they have their own type of catalogue, but, they think they are expensive. So, to sum up, I wonder if the price is determined from the source (or type of collector?) and not necessarily what is readily available. I don't know myself to be honest how they determine this??
BTW - those same stamps I referred to haven't changed in price (catalogue value anyway) at all since I was at the show.
Chimo
Bujutsu
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"and military collectors were willing to pay that price"
and, so, on the other end of the equation, demand AGAIN, not rarity, determines price.
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The case of the Hitler heads is not unusual in the UK, either. Many non-philatelic collectors derive a manly thrill from possessing Hitler images - I know I did at the age of 11 - and I have often seen Third Reich stamps offered in antique shops (sometimes artfully mounted) at ridiculous prices, invariably accompanied by the word "genuine", as if the outside world expected any given stamp to be some sort of fake.
Philatelic items at non-philatelic outlets tend to be offered at far higher than catalogue value. This is not, I think, due to ignorance on the part of the seller, but sheer avarice and the realisation that they can get away with it. For some reason that applies far less to books - at the same antiques centre I bought two Wisdens for £15 apiece after the seller consulted his catalogue: they were roughly one-third catalogue, and half an online dealer's price.
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When I was a kid in the early 1970s and lived in Germany, the Hitler head stamps, inflation era stamps and notgeld was almost a give away at shows. I bought nogeld for a dime a note. I still have one full sheet of Hitler heads framed, which was up in my room in my teens. I think I paid a dollar for it.
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