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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Spain Money Order Stamp

 

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adam31415926
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18 May 2015
11:38:19pm
I've been researching these, and I think they are called money order stamps (Spain). Can anyone help me understand what these are? Are they listed in any catalogs like Scott?

Image Not Found

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michael78651
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19 May 2015
01:21:19am
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

I think you are confusing the cancellation "Giro Nationale" on Spanish stamps. The cancellation is a revenue cancel showing that the tax (fee) was paid. Regular postage stamps are used as a receipt for purchasing money orders in the post office, and canceled with the revenue cancel.

The stamps you have posted the images of are fiscal revenue stamps.

They were not valid for postal purposes, so you won't find them in the catalogs.

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khj
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19 May 2015
02:42:15am
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Michael##### is correct, they are not postage stamps, so they won't be listed in the Scott catalog.

However, they are indeed postal money order stamps -- that is why "CORREOS" is inscribed on the stamp. Your 3 stamps are part of 5 stamp set (5c, 10c, 25c, 50c, 1p) issued from 1911-1920. There should be a blue control number printed vertically down the back of your stamps.

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adam31415926
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19 May 2015
09:08:35am
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

So these stamps would be considered the money order instrument itself? Are they money orders as we understand them today, as a form of payment for goods? I just wanted to clarify how these would have been used at the time.

A related question is if these types of stamps were ever "cancelled"?

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nigelc
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19 May 2015
10:07:12am
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Hi Adam,

I believe these stamps were used to pay the fee for the money order service (just as postage and telegraph stamps pay for the corresponding services) like the "poundage" charge paid using postage stamps on British postal orders.

I would expect them to be cancelled when applied to the money order form or card but I don't know the details of the Spanish process.

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khj
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19 May 2015
10:35:19am
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

As Nigel posted, they were used to pay the fee for money orders.

I don't collect "revenues", but the typical cancels I've seen were dated oval cancels. I've seen them overwhelmingly in unused condition.

If anybody has Galvez, there might be additional info in there.

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adam31415926
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19 May 2015
10:52:05am
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Why are there so many MNH examples out there? If they were affixed to money orders, then cancelled when purchasing them, how would unused stamps come into the hands of collectors?

Confused

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khj
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19 May 2015
11:36:28am
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Typically what happens is that when they were demonetized, the remaining supplies were wholesaled off (or work their way to dealers through "other" means).

I don't think the Spanish money order stamps were in use beyond a decade or two. As Michael#####'s posted, regular postage stamps were used. Again, typically what happens is that the postal service recognizes that it's too much trouble to maintain stocks of all sorts of different class stamps. So like the US Parcel Post and Certified Mail stamps, they quit making them and simply allow customers to use normal postage stamps. The difference, of course, is that those US stamps were actual postage stamps to begin with, whereas the Spanish money order stamps could only be used to pay the money order fee (cannot be used as postage).

I don't collect revenues and I don't collect "on piece" stamps either, so I can't tell you how prevalent cancelled money order stamps are. Hopefully somebody else can chime in, or has the Galvez book and can look it up.

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khj
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19 May 2015
12:04:00pm
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Here are examples of cancelled Spanish money order stamps that I pilfered from the web:

Image Not Found
1916 50c stamp

Image Not Found
1920 10c stamp

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khj
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19 May 2015
12:46:28pm
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Just to clarify, your stamps ARE revenues stamps as Michael#####'s posted early on. They are revenue stamps that happened to be used by the postal service.

As far as I know, they were never valid as postage stamps. That is why they are not listed in Scott.

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seanpashby
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19 May 2015
12:55:50pm
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

It was mentioned above that because they were used on money orders and not as postage, they are not listed in Scott. In the Scott US Specialized, it lists Postal Note Stamps PN1 to PN18 as the same thing.

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michael78651
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19 May 2015
01:06:35pm
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

The Scott United States Specialized catalog uses different listing criteria than Scott's Standard World Wide catalogs.

You won't find those Giro stamps listed in Gibbons or Michel either. I don't have a Spanish specialized catalog, but there's a good chance they'll be in there.

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khj
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19 May 2015
01:13:52pm
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Yes, I was also referring to the Scott Standard catalogs, not the US Specialized (which DOES lists revenues, but actually only lists some of them).

They're not in my 2009 Edifil (at least I could not find them). But I've been told that they are listed in the Galvez catalog, which is why I mentioned it.

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adam31415926
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19 May 2015
01:59:55pm
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

It would be neat to see an example of one on a form with a cancel. I looked up some on Google from various countries.

Below is an example (from EBAY).

RUSSIA / POLAND 16.11.1909 MONEY ORDER FROM LOMZA TO OSTROW

Image Not Found

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khj
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19 May 2015
02:07:25pm
re: Spain Money Order Stamp

There is actually an online archive detailing all the rules and procedures for using giro fiscal stamp, except that those rules are for the Philippines (while under Spanish control). It includes the fee rates.

I've yet to find one giving the specifics for Spain itself. But I admit, I didn't look that hard. I'm sure there's one online somewhere.

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
adam31415926

18 May 2015
11:38:19pm

I've been researching these, and I think they are called money order stamps (Spain). Can anyone help me understand what these are? Are they listed in any catalogs like Scott?

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
Members Picture
michael78651

19 May 2015
01:21:19am

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

I think you are confusing the cancellation "Giro Nationale" on Spanish stamps. The cancellation is a revenue cancel showing that the tax (fee) was paid. Regular postage stamps are used as a receipt for purchasing money orders in the post office, and canceled with the revenue cancel.

The stamps you have posted the images of are fiscal revenue stamps.

They were not valid for postal purposes, so you won't find them in the catalogs.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2015
02:42:15am

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Michael##### is correct, they are not postage stamps, so they won't be listed in the Scott catalog.

However, they are indeed postal money order stamps -- that is why "CORREOS" is inscribed on the stamp. Your 3 stamps are part of 5 stamp set (5c, 10c, 25c, 50c, 1p) issued from 1911-1920. There should be a blue control number printed vertically down the back of your stamps.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
adam31415926

19 May 2015
09:08:35am

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

So these stamps would be considered the money order instrument itself? Are they money orders as we understand them today, as a form of payment for goods? I just wanted to clarify how these would have been used at the time.

A related question is if these types of stamps were ever "cancelled"?

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
Members Picture
nigelc

19 May 2015
10:07:12am

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Hi Adam,

I believe these stamps were used to pay the fee for the money order service (just as postage and telegraph stamps pay for the corresponding services) like the "poundage" charge paid using postage stamps on British postal orders.

I would expect them to be cancelled when applied to the money order form or card but I don't know the details of the Spanish process.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2015
10:35:19am

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

As Nigel posted, they were used to pay the fee for money orders.

I don't collect "revenues", but the typical cancels I've seen were dated oval cancels. I've seen them overwhelmingly in unused condition.

If anybody has Galvez, there might be additional info in there.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
adam31415926

19 May 2015
10:52:05am

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Why are there so many MNH examples out there? If they were affixed to money orders, then cancelled when purchasing them, how would unused stamps come into the hands of collectors?

Confused

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2015
11:36:28am

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Typically what happens is that when they were demonetized, the remaining supplies were wholesaled off (or work their way to dealers through "other" means).

I don't think the Spanish money order stamps were in use beyond a decade or two. As Michael#####'s posted, regular postage stamps were used. Again, typically what happens is that the postal service recognizes that it's too much trouble to maintain stocks of all sorts of different class stamps. So like the US Parcel Post and Certified Mail stamps, they quit making them and simply allow customers to use normal postage stamps. The difference, of course, is that those US stamps were actual postage stamps to begin with, whereas the Spanish money order stamps could only be used to pay the money order fee (cannot be used as postage).

I don't collect revenues and I don't collect "on piece" stamps either, so I can't tell you how prevalent cancelled money order stamps are. Hopefully somebody else can chime in, or has the Galvez book and can look it up.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2015
12:04:00pm

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Here are examples of cancelled Spanish money order stamps that I pilfered from the web:

Image Not Found
1916 50c stamp

Image Not Found
1920 10c stamp

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2015
12:46:28pm

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Just to clarify, your stamps ARE revenues stamps as Michael#####'s posted early on. They are revenue stamps that happened to be used by the postal service.

As far as I know, they were never valid as postage stamps. That is why they are not listed in Scott.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
seanpashby

19 May 2015
12:55:50pm

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

It was mentioned above that because they were used on money orders and not as postage, they are not listed in Scott. In the Scott US Specialized, it lists Postal Note Stamps PN1 to PN18 as the same thing.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
michael78651

19 May 2015
01:06:35pm

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

The Scott United States Specialized catalog uses different listing criteria than Scott's Standard World Wide catalogs.

You won't find those Giro stamps listed in Gibbons or Michel either. I don't have a Spanish specialized catalog, but there's a good chance they'll be in there.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2015
01:13:52pm

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

Yes, I was also referring to the Scott Standard catalogs, not the US Specialized (which DOES lists revenues, but actually only lists some of them).

They're not in my 2009 Edifil (at least I could not find them). But I've been told that they are listed in the Galvez catalog, which is why I mentioned it.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
adam31415926

19 May 2015
01:59:55pm

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

It would be neat to see an example of one on a form with a cancel. I looked up some on Google from various countries.

Below is an example (from EBAY).

RUSSIA / POLAND 16.11.1909 MONEY ORDER FROM LOMZA TO OSTROW

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.ebid.net/us/stor ...
Members Picture
khj

19 May 2015
02:07:25pm

re: Spain Money Order Stamp

There is actually an online archive detailing all the rules and procedures for using giro fiscal stamp, except that those rules are for the Philippines (while under Spanish control). It includes the fee rates.

I've yet to find one giving the specifics for Spain itself. But I admit, I didn't look that hard. I'm sure there's one online somewhere.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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