Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Back in the 1903-8 era that I collect, many folks aren't aware that some states we've always taken for granted that they've always been states, weren't! Everyone knows that Alaska and Hawaii became states in 1958. But here's a few more:
Oklahoma was a state until November 16, 1907. The above post card from 1906 is from when it was still a US territory.
Part of Oklahoma was known as Indian Territory. Now here's an interesting cover. We know the statehood date is 1907, but here's a cover dated 1908 as Indian Territory. I guess they still had the old cancel in use.
Two other territories weren't states until 1912. First was New Mexico which became a state on Jan 6, 1912.
And last was Arizona, not becoming a state until Feb 14, 1912.
And we'll leave Alaska and Hawaii for another day. I do have cancels but not scanned.
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05:28:34pm
Thanks for the reminder! People do take that for granted. Cool covers!
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I know the Philippines were a US Territory at that time, but then they had their own overprint. But what about all the other minor territories?
I'd look up a list, but I bet you've already scoped them out.
Chris
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Other with overprints were the territories ceded to the US by Spain following the Spanish-American War. They included:
- Philippines
- Guam
- Puerto Rico
- Cuba
Other than those, Canal Zone had overprints of Panamanian stamps, and then US stamps. Hawaii had its own stamps as did the Ryukyu Islands.
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I was thinking more of places that did not have overprints like American Samoa or Midway. I would think there could be Ben Franklin covers from these places.
Another thought, was regular (non-overprinted) US postage valid in the places with the overprints? Could there be say a Philippines cover with a US #300 on it? Or even one with both US #300 and Philippines #226?
Chris
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I collect postmarks from the Assiniboia Indian Territory which is the present day Saskatchewan and Alberta provinces in Canada.
I have these two with a 1c Ben Franklin stamp on a postcard.
Battlecreek, Michigan to Whitewood, Assa MAY 23 1906
Calverton, NY to Whitewood, Assa MY 21 06
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Thebiggnome asked,
"Another thought, was regular (non-overprinted) US postage valid in the places with the overprints? Could there be say a Philippines cover with a US #300 on it? Or even one with both US #300 and Philippines #226?"
From the Scott U.S. specialized catalogue: "U.S. stamps overprinted 'PHILIPPINES' were placed on sale in Manila June 30, 1899. Regular U.S. stamps had been in use from early March and at the Manila post office Spanish stamps were also acceptable."
Here's an 1899 cover from my collection, which I have previously shown in another post. It's an especially nice cover for me, despite the rather ragged condition, because it was posted by a hospital corpsman and (apparently) endorsed, i.e. censored, by Henry Lippincott, the "…first chief surgeon of the Department of the Pacific and the Eighth Army Corps and served under General Merritt at Manila and General Otis at the outbreak of the insurrection in the Philippine Islands in 1889; died at his home in Brooklyn, January 24, after a long illness, aged 68."
In my previous post, I asked if anyone could provide information about censorship in the U.S. military at that time. I've read that the government and the military worked unsuccessfully to cover up American atrocities during the Philippine War, but their efforts were largely undone by letters sent by soldiers in the Philippines, and by statements to the press and to a congressional committee by returning soldiers. I have not been able to find any useful information about mail censorship during that time.
Bob
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Very nice covers and history Jimjung. Nice history lesson Bob!
US Territories that never became states that existed during my 1903-08 period:
American Samoa 1899
Midway Islands 1867
Canal Zone
Puerto Rico 1898
Philippines
There were stamps issued by both Canal Zone and Philippines as overprints on my Ben Franklin 300 stamp. I do have a lot of the Philippine 226, as it was in use, what seems mainly to be on soldier mail. There are OB (official business) overprints, and I must pay more attention to these, especially on cover since there are varieties. Canal Zone 4 is interesting. I have many mint copies, but in all my collecting I have never seen one on a cover or postcard. Interesting that there were specific Canal Zone stamps in use at the same time. There is one cover that was done obviously as a philatelic cover since it has the whole set on it. I've seen three different copies of this cover. Two on a pink envelope, one on blue, all addressed to the same company. The dealers want a fortune for these so I've settled for jpgs for my reference file.
The rest of the possibilities are American Samoa, Midway Islands and Puerto Rico. I've seen one US 300 canceled in Samoa, but a poor strike and just on a piece. The same dealer also has each of the other stamps in the Series of 1902 done the same way, so again this was a philatelic favor rather than actual mail. I've never seen a Midway Islands cancel, and am not even sure it exists. I do have several Puerto Rico covers.
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I realized after reading BenFranklin1902's last post that I had forgotten to add the image of my Spanish-American War cover. Now corrected, see my previous post.
@BenFranlin1902: Do any of your Spanish-American War or other military covers of that period have censorship endorsements like mine? I certainly would like to learn more about censorship at that time.
Bob
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Here's another Oklahoma / Indian Territory cover. It looks an awful lot like the one I posted earlier in this thread. It was forwarded, and has McAlister and Crowden, OK cancels, and as well as a McAlister, Indian T cancel long aftr statehood. From my two covers we can deduce that the post office was quick to update standard cancels, but didn't get around to replacing the General Delivery cancels for a while.
This card is pretty interesting since it was forwarded twice... It was addressed to John Colberg in McAlister, and got held in General Delivery for 3 days and someone forwarded it to Crowden. I guess someone in Crowden knew ole John was in the hospital back in McAlister, explaining why he didn't show up at the post office. I'm hoping he eventually got his card! I don't know how he made out with the illness that landed him in the hospital, but no worries, he's long dead now anyway!
This cover is another great eBay find. Paid $1.25 plus postage for this beauty!
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That is an interesting item. Thanks for sharing.
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Front and Back:
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Doe, that is a really nice piece. I have several of the USPO in China cancels, mostly on commercial mail. I've never seen one with Chinese postage as well.
There's been a collection on the 'bay lately, selling individually... or should I say sitting there at very high asking prices. Is that hand drawn and colored?
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"Is that hand drawn and colored?"
Yes it is.
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"Yes it is. "
That makes it twice as wonderful a cover!
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"U.S. stamps overprinted 'PHILIPPINES' were placed on sale in Manila June 30, 1899. "
Just read back through this discussion, and here's a Philippines card with Scott 226. I had the image handy since I just bought it, for less than $3. What makes it interesting to me is that all the other covers I have are envelopes, and most have soldier return addresses.
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I don't know if I am allowed to say this here or not, but I am writing this here because the images are already posted in this thread. My US #300/China card is currently listed for trade on my blog. PM if interested. Blog link is below.
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I try to find different themes to collect on my 1902 Ben Franklin. So I recently started looking for all the US territories of that era.
Back in the 1903-8 era that I collect, many folks aren't aware that some states we've always taken for granted that they've always been states, weren't! Everyone knows that Alaska and Hawaii became states in 1958. But here's a few more:
Oklahoma was a state until November 16, 1907. The above post card from 1906 is from when it was still a US territory.
Part of Oklahoma was known as Indian Territory. Now here's an interesting cover. We know the statehood date is 1907, but here's a cover dated 1908 as Indian Territory. I guess they still had the old cancel in use.
Two other territories weren't states until 1912. First was New Mexico which became a state on Jan 6, 1912.
And last was Arizona, not becoming a state until Feb 14, 1912.
And we'll leave Alaska and Hawaii for another day. I do have cancels but not scanned.
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Wanting to bring the joy of stamp collecting to younger generations
23 May 2015
05:28:34pm
re: How About Some Territorials?
Thanks for the reminder! People do take that for granted. Cool covers!
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re: How About Some Territorials?
I know the Philippines were a US Territory at that time, but then they had their own overprint. But what about all the other minor territories?
I'd look up a list, but I bet you've already scoped them out.
Chris
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re: How About Some Territorials?
Other with overprints were the territories ceded to the US by Spain following the Spanish-American War. They included:
- Philippines
- Guam
- Puerto Rico
- Cuba
Other than those, Canal Zone had overprints of Panamanian stamps, and then US stamps. Hawaii had its own stamps as did the Ryukyu Islands.
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re: How About Some Territorials?
I was thinking more of places that did not have overprints like American Samoa or Midway. I would think there could be Ben Franklin covers from these places.
Another thought, was regular (non-overprinted) US postage valid in the places with the overprints? Could there be say a Philippines cover with a US #300 on it? Or even one with both US #300 and Philippines #226?
Chris
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08:56:02am
re: How About Some Territorials?
I collect postmarks from the Assiniboia Indian Territory which is the present day Saskatchewan and Alberta provinces in Canada.
I have these two with a 1c Ben Franklin stamp on a postcard.
Battlecreek, Michigan to Whitewood, Assa MAY 23 1906
Calverton, NY to Whitewood, Assa MY 21 06
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re: How About Some Territorials?
Thebiggnome asked,
"Another thought, was regular (non-overprinted) US postage valid in the places with the overprints? Could there be say a Philippines cover with a US #300 on it? Or even one with both US #300 and Philippines #226?"
From the Scott U.S. specialized catalogue: "U.S. stamps overprinted 'PHILIPPINES' were placed on sale in Manila June 30, 1899. Regular U.S. stamps had been in use from early March and at the Manila post office Spanish stamps were also acceptable."
Here's an 1899 cover from my collection, which I have previously shown in another post. It's an especially nice cover for me, despite the rather ragged condition, because it was posted by a hospital corpsman and (apparently) endorsed, i.e. censored, by Henry Lippincott, the "…first chief surgeon of the Department of the Pacific and the Eighth Army Corps and served under General Merritt at Manila and General Otis at the outbreak of the insurrection in the Philippine Islands in 1889; died at his home in Brooklyn, January 24, after a long illness, aged 68."
In my previous post, I asked if anyone could provide information about censorship in the U.S. military at that time. I've read that the government and the military worked unsuccessfully to cover up American atrocities during the Philippine War, but their efforts were largely undone by letters sent by soldiers in the Philippines, and by statements to the press and to a congressional committee by returning soldiers. I have not been able to find any useful information about mail censorship during that time.
Bob
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re: How About Some Territorials?
Very nice covers and history Jimjung. Nice history lesson Bob!
US Territories that never became states that existed during my 1903-08 period:
American Samoa 1899
Midway Islands 1867
Canal Zone
Puerto Rico 1898
Philippines
There were stamps issued by both Canal Zone and Philippines as overprints on my Ben Franklin 300 stamp. I do have a lot of the Philippine 226, as it was in use, what seems mainly to be on soldier mail. There are OB (official business) overprints, and I must pay more attention to these, especially on cover since there are varieties. Canal Zone 4 is interesting. I have many mint copies, but in all my collecting I have never seen one on a cover or postcard. Interesting that there were specific Canal Zone stamps in use at the same time. There is one cover that was done obviously as a philatelic cover since it has the whole set on it. I've seen three different copies of this cover. Two on a pink envelope, one on blue, all addressed to the same company. The dealers want a fortune for these so I've settled for jpgs for my reference file.
The rest of the possibilities are American Samoa, Midway Islands and Puerto Rico. I've seen one US 300 canceled in Samoa, but a poor strike and just on a piece. The same dealer also has each of the other stamps in the Series of 1902 done the same way, so again this was a philatelic favor rather than actual mail. I've never seen a Midway Islands cancel, and am not even sure it exists. I do have several Puerto Rico covers.
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re: How About Some Territorials?
I realized after reading BenFranklin1902's last post that I had forgotten to add the image of my Spanish-American War cover. Now corrected, see my previous post.
@BenFranlin1902: Do any of your Spanish-American War or other military covers of that period have censorship endorsements like mine? I certainly would like to learn more about censorship at that time.
Bob
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re: How About Some Territorials?
Here's another Oklahoma / Indian Territory cover. It looks an awful lot like the one I posted earlier in this thread. It was forwarded, and has McAlister and Crowden, OK cancels, and as well as a McAlister, Indian T cancel long aftr statehood. From my two covers we can deduce that the post office was quick to update standard cancels, but didn't get around to replacing the General Delivery cancels for a while.
This card is pretty interesting since it was forwarded twice... It was addressed to John Colberg in McAlister, and got held in General Delivery for 3 days and someone forwarded it to Crowden. I guess someone in Crowden knew ole John was in the hospital back in McAlister, explaining why he didn't show up at the post office. I'm hoping he eventually got his card! I don't know how he made out with the illness that landed him in the hospital, but no worries, he's long dead now anyway!
This cover is another great eBay find. Paid $1.25 plus postage for this beauty!
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re: How About Some Territorials?
That is an interesting item. Thanks for sharing.
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re: How About Some Territorials?
Doe, that is a really nice piece. I have several of the USPO in China cancels, mostly on commercial mail. I've never seen one with Chinese postage as well.
There's been a collection on the 'bay lately, selling individually... or should I say sitting there at very high asking prices. Is that hand drawn and colored?
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re: How About Some Territorials?
"Is that hand drawn and colored?"
Yes it is.
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re: How About Some Territorials?
"Yes it is. "
That makes it twice as wonderful a cover!
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re: How About Some Territorials?
"U.S. stamps overprinted 'PHILIPPINES' were placed on sale in Manila June 30, 1899. "
Just read back through this discussion, and here's a Philippines card with Scott 226. I had the image handy since I just bought it, for less than $3. What makes it interesting to me is that all the other covers I have are envelopes, and most have soldier return addresses.
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re: How About Some Territorials?
I don't know if I am allowed to say this here or not, but I am writing this here because the images are already posted in this thread. My US #300/China card is currently listed for trade on my blog. PM if interested. Blog link is below.
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