Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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That is correct. The publisher of Scott is very adamant when it comes to the use of their numbering system for conversions to other catalogues or other uses.
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Good choice, much better than the Scott one, in my opinion.
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Hello folks
Does anyone have a Michel Germany catalogue that's older than 2004, and more recent than 1991?
I just bought a 2004 Michel on eBay because I understand Michel has more info than SG, and in particular tells you who the engraver was. And is more accurate than SG! Then I heard that at some point they stopped naming the engravers - and when my Michel arrived, big disappointment - there are no engravers named. Lovely catalogue, full of info, but not the engravers' names.
I've read that in 1991 they did show the engraver - so what was the last year of engraver naming??
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I have a 1994 Europa which lists the designer. Not sure if the designer and engraver are the same.
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The SG Great Britain Concise catalogue lists both designer and engraver. Thats the only SG catalogue I have, so don't know about the other countries.
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Excellent!
Seanpashby - could you please take a look at Germany 1943's Winter relief fund issue, a red stamp with a mother and her three children. It's Michel 859,in the Deutsches Reich period. The designer was Axster-Heudtlass, and that name comes after a little e in a box, for Entwurf = design. The engraver was Prof F Lorber, and his name comes after a little s in a box, for stich = engraved. So, does your 1994 Europa have Lorber's name? My 2004 Deutschland cat doesn't, but the 1991/2 cat does. I learned that on SCF's Collecting by engraver thread.
if the engraver also designed the stamp, it says e und s, as for 857 and 858, H Ranzoni.
Winedrinker - Gibbons does give a lot of engravers' names, but I'm told by some very experienced collectors of engraved stamps that they're sometimes incorrect, and that Michel shows more engravers and is more accurate. This was bad news for me - I've got nearly all SG's European cats!
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What Michel catalogue do you have? There is a one volume German catalogue, and a two volume specialized edition. I do not know for sure, but it might be that the information you are looking for is in the specialized version, but was omitted from the simplified one volume one. I have both, so I could make a comparison.
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Jansimon, hi!
The one I bought is Deutschland-Katalog 2004/2005. It's got 2023 pages - in one volume.
My previous post references a 1943 stamp, and there's also no mention of the engraver for the 1962 Berlin issue Michel 218, which was engraved by Fuchs, nor for the 1969 19th century Berliners issue, nor the 1975 Schadow stamp, both the work of Egon Falz.
So, does the 2 volume edition include the engravers?
BTW, I buy catalogues that are a few years old, because they're cheaper than the new ones!
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Hi Neville,
The one I have is eastern Europe and does not include Germany. Sorry. But this 1994 catalog only has the boxed E and not any boxed S's.
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I have just checked my specialized Michel Germany catalogues (volume 1 from 2011, volume 2 from 2015) and there is no "S" for Stich to be found anywhere. The designer is mentioned, but not in all cases.
While I was at it, I also had a look in Harper & Scheck's "The Stamps of Germany Third Reich"(sic) from 1966, a crude looking book that seems to be created on a typewriter and then photocopied or stencilled. It contains an amazing amount of information, but nothing about the engraver's of the recess printed stamps.
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07:19:46pm
My Michel Deutschland-Spezial 1998 (green cover) has the information you seek wrt #859.
Lorber's name is shown just as you describe.
Roy
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Thanks for looking, jansimon. And Roy, it's good to know the engravers were still there in 1998, at least in the Deutschland special. I wonder if they were also in the one volume catalogue. Looks like they stopped showing the engravers names at the end of the 1990s.
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For the Third Reich period, at least, the book "The Philately of the Third Reich - Germany - 1933-1945" by Robert W. Jones does list the engraver for many, although not all, stamps of that era. Published by MAR Publishing,MAR Publishing. http://www.marpublishing.com/books/philately-germany/
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A bunch of interested folks wanted a dedicated 'engravers' forum so we started one a few weeks ago here
https://www.stampcommunity.org/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=59
It has attracted a number of knowledgeable hobbyists.
There is also the book "Stamps of Germany Third Reich" By A. Harper and W. Schenk for free download in the Stamp Smarter Library
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/Home_General.html (4th row down). It contains stamp designer and background info for the stamps issued during this period; not sure about engraver info but worth the download.
Don
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Just for completeness - thanks to eBay I have now got a single vol Michel 1991/92, which shows the engravers' names. Hooray.
This means I now have an SG cat, a Michel 91/2 which shows the engravers and a Michel 2004/5 which doesn't.
Heigh ho!
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Can someone help me with the abbreviations in my newly acquired Michel? Does StTdr mean recess printed? What does RaTdr mean? Is that photogravure?
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https://www.briefmarken.de/images/PDF/NEWS/Introduction_Englisch.pdf
This document will answer all your Michel-related questions.
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Thanks very much, Jan Simon - and thanks for your speedy reply.
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Auctions - Approvals
I am receiving foreign want lists using Michel Cat. #'s. Has anybody come up with conversion Cat. #'s to Scott? I tackled this problem a couple of years ago and gave up in frustration. As I recall, I read on the internet that Scott blocked this. Thank you very much.
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re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
That is correct. The publisher of Scott is very adamant when it comes to the use of their numbering system for conversions to other catalogues or other uses.
Login to Like
this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Good choice, much better than the Scott one, in my opinion.
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Hello folks
Does anyone have a Michel Germany catalogue that's older than 2004, and more recent than 1991?
I just bought a 2004 Michel on eBay because I understand Michel has more info than SG, and in particular tells you who the engraver was. And is more accurate than SG! Then I heard that at some point they stopped naming the engravers - and when my Michel arrived, big disappointment - there are no engravers named. Lovely catalogue, full of info, but not the engravers' names.
I've read that in 1991 they did show the engraver - so what was the last year of engraver naming??
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
I have a 1994 Europa which lists the designer. Not sure if the designer and engraver are the same.
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
The SG Great Britain Concise catalogue lists both designer and engraver. Thats the only SG catalogue I have, so don't know about the other countries.
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Excellent!
Seanpashby - could you please take a look at Germany 1943's Winter relief fund issue, a red stamp with a mother and her three children. It's Michel 859,in the Deutsches Reich period. The designer was Axster-Heudtlass, and that name comes after a little e in a box, for Entwurf = design. The engraver was Prof F Lorber, and his name comes after a little s in a box, for stich = engraved. So, does your 1994 Europa have Lorber's name? My 2004 Deutschland cat doesn't, but the 1991/2 cat does. I learned that on SCF's Collecting by engraver thread.
if the engraver also designed the stamp, it says e und s, as for 857 and 858, H Ranzoni.
Winedrinker - Gibbons does give a lot of engravers' names, but I'm told by some very experienced collectors of engraved stamps that they're sometimes incorrect, and that Michel shows more engravers and is more accurate. This was bad news for me - I've got nearly all SG's European cats!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Auctions - Approvals
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
What Michel catalogue do you have? There is a one volume German catalogue, and a two volume specialized edition. I do not know for sure, but it might be that the information you are looking for is in the specialized version, but was omitted from the simplified one volume one. I have both, so I could make a comparison.
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Jansimon, hi!
The one I bought is Deutschland-Katalog 2004/2005. It's got 2023 pages - in one volume.
My previous post references a 1943 stamp, and there's also no mention of the engraver for the 1962 Berlin issue Michel 218, which was engraved by Fuchs, nor for the 1969 19th century Berliners issue, nor the 1975 Schadow stamp, both the work of Egon Falz.
So, does the 2 volume edition include the engravers?
BTW, I buy catalogues that are a few years old, because they're cheaper than the new ones!
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Hi Neville,
The one I have is eastern Europe and does not include Germany. Sorry. But this 1994 catalog only has the boxed E and not any boxed S's.
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this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
I have just checked my specialized Michel Germany catalogues (volume 1 from 2011, volume 2 from 2015) and there is no "S" for Stich to be found anywhere. The designer is mentioned, but not in all cases.
While I was at it, I also had a look in Harper & Scheck's "The Stamps of Germany Third Reich"(sic) from 1966, a crude looking book that seems to be created on a typewriter and then photocopied or stencilled. It contains an amazing amount of information, but nothing about the engraver's of the recess printed stamps.
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16 Mar 2018
07:19:46pm
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
My Michel Deutschland-Spezial 1998 (green cover) has the information you seek wrt #859.
Lorber's name is shown just as you describe.
Roy
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re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Thanks for looking, jansimon. And Roy, it's good to know the engravers were still there in 1998, at least in the Deutschland special. I wonder if they were also in the one volume catalogue. Looks like they stopped showing the engravers names at the end of the 1990s.
Login to Like
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05:09:37pm
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
For the Third Reich period, at least, the book "The Philately of the Third Reich - Germany - 1933-1945" by Robert W. Jones does list the engraver for many, although not all, stamps of that era. Published by MAR Publishing,MAR Publishing. http://www.marpublishing.com/books/philately-germany/
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
A bunch of interested folks wanted a dedicated 'engravers' forum so we started one a few weeks ago here
https://www.stampcommunity.org/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=59
It has attracted a number of knowledgeable hobbyists.
There is also the book "Stamps of Germany Third Reich" By A. Harper and W. Schenk for free download in the Stamp Smarter Library
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/Home_General.html (4th row down). It contains stamp designer and background info for the stamps issued during this period; not sure about engraver info but worth the download.
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Just for completeness - thanks to eBay I have now got a single vol Michel 1991/92, which shows the engravers' names. Hooray.
This means I now have an SG cat, a Michel 91/2 which shows the engravers and a Michel 2004/5 which doesn't.
Heigh ho!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Can someone help me with the abbreviations in my newly acquired Michel? Does StTdr mean recess printed? What does RaTdr mean? Is that photogravure?
Login to Like
this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
https://www.briefmarken.de/images/PDF/NEWS/Introduction_Englisch.pdf
This document will answer all your Michel-related questions.
Login to Like
this post
re: Michel #'s to Scott #'s.
Thanks very much, Jan Simon - and thanks for your speedy reply.
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