Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Thanks Nelson. I was going by the photo here:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Early-Carmine-and-Lake-Errors-/10000000001501837/g.html
Mine is a muddier red than your second photo... the 703
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Remember that red is the most unstable color when exposed to light and the effects are cumulative. Just a few minutes here and a few minutes there over the past 85 years adds up. I remember seeing stamps in display cases at Famous Barr in the 1960s. Who knows how many hours of exposure to light those stamps had!
Lars
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But wouldn't it fade? Not get darker?
I can tell these color variants are going to me crazi...er
Blair
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" I can tell these color variants are going to me crazi...er"
Hey, I resemble that remark
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... I can't say I'm going crazy... I arrived a LONG time ago
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"But wouldn't it fade? Not get darker?"
If the color was PURE red, it would fade away like a STOP sign without U/V coating. But if the red has a hint of brown, the brown will become more dominate as the red fades.
Pay close attention to the 2c stamp exposed to the sun:
One thing I need to correct is the statement that there is no noticeable change to the 3c stamp exposed to sunlight. There is indeed a noticeable change.
Lars
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I would say that it is not the dark lake variety (703b), but could be the lake (703a), or a dark shade of carmine rose (703). I don't think Blair's stamp is faded.
My 703 is a darker shade of carmine rose, but it exhibits more of the pinkish hue of the rose color than Blair's.
Here is a scan of mine, but my scanner doesn't do reddish hues that well.
I also created an image of other carmine rose stamps issued around the same time. The common hue on all that can be seen is the pink from the rose color.
Discerning colors on computer monitors is difficult. However, I would lean towards Blair's stamp being a 703a.
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09:49:50am
Ah, "a rose by any other name would" be as red. Rose carmine, carmine rose, carmine, rose, red, lake, dark lake, shallow lake, deep lake (but then I always thought lakes were blue, least wise that is their color on my maps)...
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And why in the world is "Lake" a red color anyway? *I* don't think of red when I see a lake. 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_pigment
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Good old Wikipedia. I learned something new today. 
Thanks, Michael.
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I think Michael hit it. I'm leaning to 703a also, after looking at a lot of photos. Mine has more of a brownish red than the carmine rose but not as much brown as the 703b or dark lake version.
Thanks everyone for the help!
Blair
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ok lets muddy...lake-a-fy... the water a little more...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/703b-YORKTOWN-BLK-4-DARK-LAKE-BLACK-SHADES-W-PF-CERT-CV-1-600-00-WL3672-/171090940425?hash=item27d5d09209
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Its mostly muddy because viewing these images scanned in different ways under potentially wildly different lighting from different sources on different devices will prove nothing. It wouldn't be muddy if you had reference examples first hand or all scanned at the same time.
We can guess, and your stamp looks lake, but only first-hand examination (maybe using your own reference material for similar color varieties) or expertising is going to make certain.
Based on the color I'm seeing I would say its Lake not dark.
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Thanks Hungaryforstamps. It really is hard to tell from the photos. I can say on my monitor the photo I posted is the same color as the stamp... the problem is colors can vary even from one monitor to another... it's not important enough to me to spend the money on having it expertised sooo... I will mark it 703a in my collection and assume it's the lake version as appears to be the consensus.
Thanks again everyone!
Blair
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I have quite a few stamps I have put in the questionable category, being unwilling to try an get them certified until I have more information, particularly in the area of color and forged cancels.
You could try an look at acquiring a 703a or better yet a certified 703a, for comparison purposes. Nothing is better for seeing color variance than having several copies of a stamp laid out next to each other. However, I bet its pretty difficult to find a 703a because everyone is trying to sell them as 703b's or are unwilling to part with one lest it be the more expensive variety.
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Thank you and that's a good idea... I'll check around and see if I can find one. No 703a on Ebay... LOTS of 703b... or at least ones being CALLED 703b...lol
Thanks again,
Blair
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703a's are probably rare on eBay because they are misdiagnosed 703's
Look for US 703 - there are quite a few 703a like the one I posted earlier
After all it's not in the realm of scarce.
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The problem is the 703s look the same as the ones being sold as 703B... I need to find one that is truly 703a to compare colors... I'll probably wait until I can look for one in person at a stamp show or shop.
Thanks again,
Blair
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I received this in the mail TODAY
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I know that it is common to think you have the "Rare" version of anything you collect and I'm sure that goes for stamps also but this is really throwing me as I have looked online and found a site that showed two photos of this stamp... one red and one Lake and this one really does look more like the Dark Lake version... any opinions?
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re: Lake or Red
Thanks Nelson. I was going by the photo here:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Early-Carmine-and-Lake-Errors-/10000000001501837/g.html
Mine is a muddier red than your second photo... the 703
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re: Lake or Red
Remember that red is the most unstable color when exposed to light and the effects are cumulative. Just a few minutes here and a few minutes there over the past 85 years adds up. I remember seeing stamps in display cases at Famous Barr in the 1960s. Who knows how many hours of exposure to light those stamps had!
Lars
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re: Lake or Red
But wouldn't it fade? Not get darker?
I can tell these color variants are going to me crazi...er
Blair
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re: Lake or Red
" I can tell these color variants are going to me crazi...er"
Hey, I resemble that remark
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re: Lake or Red
... I can't say I'm going crazy... I arrived a LONG time ago
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re: Lake or Red
"But wouldn't it fade? Not get darker?"
If the color was PURE red, it would fade away like a STOP sign without U/V coating. But if the red has a hint of brown, the brown will become more dominate as the red fades.
Pay close attention to the 2c stamp exposed to the sun:
One thing I need to correct is the statement that there is no noticeable change to the 3c stamp exposed to sunlight. There is indeed a noticeable change.
Lars
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re: Lake or Red
I would say that it is not the dark lake variety (703b), but could be the lake (703a), or a dark shade of carmine rose (703). I don't think Blair's stamp is faded.
My 703 is a darker shade of carmine rose, but it exhibits more of the pinkish hue of the rose color than Blair's.
Here is a scan of mine, but my scanner doesn't do reddish hues that well.
I also created an image of other carmine rose stamps issued around the same time. The common hue on all that can be seen is the pink from the rose color.
Discerning colors on computer monitors is difficult. However, I would lean towards Blair's stamp being a 703a.
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
17 Sep 2015
09:49:50am
re: Lake or Red
Ah, "a rose by any other name would" be as red. Rose carmine, carmine rose, carmine, rose, red, lake, dark lake, shallow lake, deep lake (but then I always thought lakes were blue, least wise that is their color on my maps)...
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re: Lake or Red
And why in the world is "Lake" a red color anyway? *I* don't think of red when I see a lake.
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re: Lake or Red
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_pigment
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re: Lake or Red
Good old Wikipedia. I learned something new today.
Thanks, Michael.
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re: Lake or Red
I think Michael hit it. I'm leaning to 703a also, after looking at a lot of photos. Mine has more of a brownish red than the carmine rose but not as much brown as the 703b or dark lake version.
Thanks everyone for the help!
Blair
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re: Lake or Red
ok lets muddy...lake-a-fy... the water a little more...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/703b-YORKTOWN-BLK-4-DARK-LAKE-BLACK-SHADES-W-PF-CERT-CV-1-600-00-WL3672-/171090940425?hash=item27d5d09209
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re: Lake or Red
Its mostly muddy because viewing these images scanned in different ways under potentially wildly different lighting from different sources on different devices will prove nothing. It wouldn't be muddy if you had reference examples first hand or all scanned at the same time.
We can guess, and your stamp looks lake, but only first-hand examination (maybe using your own reference material for similar color varieties) or expertising is going to make certain.
Based on the color I'm seeing I would say its Lake not dark.
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re: Lake or Red
Thanks Hungaryforstamps. It really is hard to tell from the photos. I can say on my monitor the photo I posted is the same color as the stamp... the problem is colors can vary even from one monitor to another... it's not important enough to me to spend the money on having it expertised sooo... I will mark it 703a in my collection and assume it's the lake version as appears to be the consensus.
Thanks again everyone!
Blair
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re: Lake or Red
I have quite a few stamps I have put in the questionable category, being unwilling to try an get them certified until I have more information, particularly in the area of color and forged cancels.
You could try an look at acquiring a 703a or better yet a certified 703a, for comparison purposes. Nothing is better for seeing color variance than having several copies of a stamp laid out next to each other. However, I bet its pretty difficult to find a 703a because everyone is trying to sell them as 703b's or are unwilling to part with one lest it be the more expensive variety.
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re: Lake or Red
Thank you and that's a good idea... I'll check around and see if I can find one. No 703a on Ebay... LOTS of 703b... or at least ones being CALLED 703b...lol
Thanks again,
Blair
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10:09:35pm
re: Lake or Red
703a's are probably rare on eBay because they are misdiagnosed 703's
Look for US 703 - there are quite a few 703a like the one I posted earlier
After all it's not in the realm of scarce.
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re: Lake or Red
The problem is the 703s look the same as the ones being sold as 703B... I need to find one that is truly 703a to compare colors... I'll probably wait until I can look for one in person at a stamp show or shop.
Thanks again,
Blair
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re: Lake or Red
I received this in the mail TODAY
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