Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
It's US State Department Official, Scott O68. I'll post a scan if that helps.
Thanks,
Geoff
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Definitely need to see a scan
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Yes, scans always help. Unlike with works of art, stamps that are repaired or otherwise modified from their original issued state do suffer a decrease in value for the tampering.
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10:08:15pm
" ... It's not a bad example otherwise, but how does one suggest a price for it? ..."
When someone writes "It's simple...." it usually isn't all that simple after all.
So I'll try to stifle my urge to make that exclamation.
I'd suggest you look at the stamp and examine your conscience asking yourself, knowing what you know about that stamp now, as a collector, not a "for profit" dealer, what would you be willing to offer were you in a buying mood. There is YOUR price, possibly discounted for quick sale, or presented fairly at YOUR price to see if the market agrees with your assessment.
After that it is all routine.
Ooops, I almost typed "SIMPLE".
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cdj1122,
Thank you for your comments! Although not new to stamp collecting, I have never offered a stamp for sale before. I know what I would "like" for the stamp, and could probably sell at a fair price except for the flaw. That's where I go off the rails. I see what is offered online and it is hard to make a clear decision because the online offerings are all over the place.
Here's an image. The reperf is on the left side. (Pretty darn obvious now that I look at it!)
Geoff
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Hi Everyone;
WOW, it looks as tho someone sharpened grandma's knitting needle, put the stamp on styrofoam
and stabbed the dickens out of it! 
I would have taken scissors to that, and performed a perfendectomy.
I'm sorry to come off like I'm making fun of you, just the stamp, or better yet making fun of the
idiot that did that botched surgery.
Just funnin'....
TuskenRaider
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I was going to blame my puppy of chewing on it, but I got it before him!
Geoff
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Chris, I think that's about right. I wouldn't go any higher, but maybe down to $75 for a range of $75 to $100 depending on how badly someone wants the stamp. If there is any problem with the back, then even lower.
It is definitely one of the worst reperfing jobs I have ever seen.
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I wouldn't pay more than 10% CV for a reperfed stamp at that level, so to be generous, $65, but that's me. Knowing the fault, it would be a space filler in my mind, so not sure I would even pony up the $65 for it. Sorry. I'd much rather wait for a bargain for a sound copy.
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I would call it a genuine fake, or altered stamp .
looking at fake market, many sell in 1000s $ today ... search spiro on ebay.
in its present form, it is scarcer than normal. market will determine price
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No one is going to pay a premium or even near CV to have an example of a reperf. Classic forgeries are a different matter, but not reperf of this stamp to improve appearance only.
As for sale value, check EBay completed listings or actually sold listings for US O68 stamp. I see a couple in about the same shape that wolf for around $100.
Edit: "wolf" apparently is very close to "sold" according to the IPlod auto-mistake software.
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"Edit: "wolf" apparently is very close to "sold" according to the IPlod auto-mistake software."
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indeed, it is, and is the basis of two my favorite operas, Tristan and Iwolfe and Peter and the Sold. They're currently enjoying a revival run, travelling with the Steppensold Players, alternating performances to wolf-out crowds.
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David,
Your mind is a little scary sometimes....
Randy
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Randy, you're only seeing what escapes; you should spend some time with the stuff that's still trapped inside
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It sounds like you guys are talking about a different stamp than the $2 State Official.
First off my 2013 catalog is $1,600 not $650 as has been implied. These stamps are very scarce to rare and probably 90% of all the ones you have seen are fake. There are several different forgeries of the $2-10 values. Some crude and others are very well done. Genuine should perf 12 while most fakes are 12.5 and some as low as 9. As with most all larger high face value stamps faults are very common because of their usage on parcels that get tossed about. Buying any of them without cert, especially Ebay is asking to get screwed. There are to many crooks and suckers on Ebay to probably get a good feel for value on these. Who knows what the idiot was thinking when they attempted to reperf the left side of this stamp. It has a cert which is much to it's advantage and if the cert does not mention any major faults I think %10 of cat would be a reasonable expectation.
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Not in the same class? So you are saying that forgeries are better than a genuine stamp with one funkily reperfed side? That's one for the record books.
A reperf does not make a genuine stamp a fake but an altered damaged stamp. The ones you show are worth no more than five bucks each unless you find a sucker.
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"Fakes, as per any proper philatelic definition, include repairs, reperforations and regummed stamps"
Another argument! Reference please. How about altered genuine stamps?
Tad
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Definitions often vary among different collecting circles. A classic example is grading.
So often more important than the absolute definition, is the definition that is actually being used by the collector/dealer you are speaking with.
I admit, it's unusual among my circles, but oftentimes the formal definition does match that stated by Nelson.
From the Linn's World Stamp Almanac (5th Edition):
"Fake -- A stamp, cover or cancel altered or concocted to appeal to a collector. In a broad sense, fakes include repairs, reperforations and regummed stamps, as well as painted-in cancels, bogus cancels or markings. Sometimes entire covers are faked."
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The cert states that the stamp is genuine, is that meaningless?
I agree that
"the reperf posted is not in the same class as the above classic forgeries"
but probably for the opposite reason. You seem to infer that a forgery is better than a genuine stamp, if the stamp has been altered at least in this way. I cannot fathom this type of thinking and regard it as very misleading. I know which one I would put in my collection. Either way it would be marked for replacement. If the funky perfs were to be cut off, then who could say it was a fake but just damaged.
Would you like it better if it had been professionaly reperfed and much more likely to fool most. At least it is obvious.
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I don't think I'd want that stamp in my collection at any price. The reperf job is so poor, I just don't want to look at it, never mind own it. Can't see where any idiot thought they could fool anyone with it.
For a stamp of value, I'd rather have the straight edge. That would be my compromise to have a stamp that valuable. As issued, but not the most preferred variety.
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05:49:37am
How many angels did you say could stand on the head of a pin ?
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As the OP, I appreciate this discussion. I have not yet decided what to do with the stamp. Maybe I'll just start collecting US Officials and put that in as a placeholder for an authentic stamp I could never afford! 
Geoff
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Not to prolong this misery, but it IS an authentic stamp. Its just been reperforated, possibly to deceive the unsuspecting buyer, but that's conjecture. The design has not been altered, which is what matters most to me on an aesthetic standpoint, not the frame. Would I buy it, probably not.
But, I wouldn't mind putting such a stamp in my collection, until a better was found, which might be never, depending in my interests. It certainly has value and will garner at least $100 I bet in a sale. To me that IS value.
The forgeries may have little value, depending on their rarity.
Whether its called a "FAKE" in all caps or a "fake" in lowercase or something else is irrelevant, because we all know what it is.
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06:35:10pm
I just got a certificate back from APS with the good news that the stamp I had sent in is legitimate, but reperforated on one side. With a fault like that I know it greatly devalues the stamp. It's not a bad example otherwise, but how does one suggest a price for it? Naturally, I will identify it as a reperf. I've seen some pretty ugly examples on eBay at ridiculous prices, but this is a nice stamp otherwise.
It's US State Department Official, Scott O68. I'll post a scan if that helps.
Thanks,
Geoff
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
Definitely need to see a scan
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
Yes, scans always help. Unlike with works of art, stamps that are repaired or otherwise modified from their original issued state do suffer a decrease in value for the tampering.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
28 Sep 2015
10:08:15pm
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
" ... It's not a bad example otherwise, but how does one suggest a price for it? ..."
When someone writes "It's simple...." it usually isn't all that simple after all.
So I'll try to stifle my urge to make that exclamation.
I'd suggest you look at the stamp and examine your conscience asking yourself, knowing what you know about that stamp now, as a collector, not a "for profit" dealer, what would you be willing to offer were you in a buying mood. There is YOUR price, possibly discounted for quick sale, or presented fairly at YOUR price to see if the market agrees with your assessment.
After that it is all routine.
Ooops, I almost typed "SIMPLE".
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07:05:42pm
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
cdj1122,
Thank you for your comments! Although not new to stamp collecting, I have never offered a stamp for sale before. I know what I would "like" for the stamp, and could probably sell at a fair price except for the flaw. That's where I go off the rails. I see what is offered online and it is hard to make a clear decision because the online offerings are all over the place.
Here's an image. The reperf is on the left side. (Pretty darn obvious now that I look at it!)
Geoff
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
Hi Everyone;
WOW, it looks as tho someone sharpened grandma's knitting needle, put the stamp on styrofoam
and stabbed the dickens out of it!
I would have taken scissors to that, and performed a perfendectomy.
I'm sorry to come off like I'm making fun of you, just the stamp, or better yet making fun of the
idiot that did that botched surgery.
Just funnin'....
TuskenRaider
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09:17:26pm
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
I was going to blame my puppy of chewing on it, but I got it before him!
Geoff
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
Chris, I think that's about right. I wouldn't go any higher, but maybe down to $75 for a range of $75 to $100 depending on how badly someone wants the stamp. If there is any problem with the back, then even lower.
It is definitely one of the worst reperfing jobs I have ever seen.
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
I wouldn't pay more than 10% CV for a reperfed stamp at that level, so to be generous, $65, but that's me. Knowing the fault, it would be a space filler in my mind, so not sure I would even pony up the $65 for it. Sorry. I'd much rather wait for a bargain for a sound copy.
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
I would call it a genuine fake, or altered stamp .
looking at fake market, many sell in 1000s $ today ... search spiro on ebay.
in its present form, it is scarcer than normal. market will determine price
Login to Like
this post
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
No one is going to pay a premium or even near CV to have an example of a reperf. Classic forgeries are a different matter, but not reperf of this stamp to improve appearance only.
As for sale value, check EBay completed listings or actually sold listings for US O68 stamp. I see a couple in about the same shape that wolf for around $100.
Edit: "wolf" apparently is very close to "sold" according to the IPlod auto-mistake software.
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
"Edit: "wolf" apparently is very close to "sold" according to the IPlod auto-mistake software."
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Auctions
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
indeed, it is, and is the basis of two my favorite operas, Tristan and Iwolfe and Peter and the Sold. They're currently enjoying a revival run, travelling with the Steppensold Players, alternating performances to wolf-out crowds.
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
David,
Your mind is a little scary sometimes....
Randy
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Auctions
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
Randy, you're only seeing what escapes; you should spend some time with the stuff that's still trapped inside
Login to Like
this post
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
It sounds like you guys are talking about a different stamp than the $2 State Official.
First off my 2013 catalog is $1,600 not $650 as has been implied. These stamps are very scarce to rare and probably 90% of all the ones you have seen are fake. There are several different forgeries of the $2-10 values. Some crude and others are very well done. Genuine should perf 12 while most fakes are 12.5 and some as low as 9. As with most all larger high face value stamps faults are very common because of their usage on parcels that get tossed about. Buying any of them without cert, especially Ebay is asking to get screwed. There are to many crooks and suckers on Ebay to probably get a good feel for value on these. Who knows what the idiot was thinking when they attempted to reperf the left side of this stamp. It has a cert which is much to it's advantage and if the cert does not mention any major faults I think %10 of cat would be a reasonable expectation.
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
Not in the same class? So you are saying that forgeries are better than a genuine stamp with one funkily reperfed side? That's one for the record books.
A reperf does not make a genuine stamp a fake but an altered damaged stamp. The ones you show are worth no more than five bucks each unless you find a sucker.
1 Member
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
"Fakes, as per any proper philatelic definition, include repairs, reperforations and regummed stamps"
Another argument! Reference please. How about altered genuine stamps?
Tad
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
Definitions often vary among different collecting circles. A classic example is grading.
So often more important than the absolute definition, is the definition that is actually being used by the collector/dealer you are speaking with.
I admit, it's unusual among my circles, but oftentimes the formal definition does match that stated by Nelson.
From the Linn's World Stamp Almanac (5th Edition):
"Fake -- A stamp, cover or cancel altered or concocted to appeal to a collector. In a broad sense, fakes include repairs, reperforations and regummed stamps, as well as painted-in cancels, bogus cancels or markings. Sometimes entire covers are faked."
Login to Like
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
The cert states that the stamp is genuine, is that meaningless?
I agree that
"the reperf posted is not in the same class as the above classic forgeries"
but probably for the opposite reason. You seem to infer that a forgery is better than a genuine stamp, if the stamp has been altered at least in this way. I cannot fathom this type of thinking and regard it as very misleading. I know which one I would put in my collection. Either way it would be marked for replacement. If the funky perfs were to be cut off, then who could say it was a fake but just damaged.
Would you like it better if it had been professionaly reperfed and much more likely to fool most. At least it is obvious.
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Approvals
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
I don't think I'd want that stamp in my collection at any price. The reperf job is so poor, I just don't want to look at it, never mind own it. Can't see where any idiot thought they could fool anyone with it.
For a stamp of value, I'd rather have the straight edge. That would be my compromise to have a stamp that valuable. As issued, but not the most preferred variety.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Oct 2015
05:49:37am
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
How many angels did you say could stand on the head of a pin ?
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04:46:52pm
re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
As the OP, I appreciate this discussion. I have not yet decided what to do with the stamp. Maybe I'll just start collecting US Officials and put that in as a placeholder for an authentic stamp I could never afford!
Geoff
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re: How to value a faulty stamp (reperf)?
Not to prolong this misery, but it IS an authentic stamp. Its just been reperforated, possibly to deceive the unsuspecting buyer, but that's conjecture. The design has not been altered, which is what matters most to me on an aesthetic standpoint, not the frame. Would I buy it, probably not.
But, I wouldn't mind putting such a stamp in my collection, until a better was found, which might be never, depending in my interests. It certainly has value and will garner at least $100 I bet in a sale. To me that IS value.
The forgeries may have little value, depending on their rarity.
Whether its called a "FAKE" in all caps or a "fake" in lowercase or something else is irrelevant, because we all know what it is.
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