Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Bob
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do the rifles need to be the sole item on the stamp, or just part of the design?
David
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#298 & #358
Are these possible?
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this was pretty informative, although it uses the M14's replacement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16
and, even better and more to what you ask: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu37r-2sfkQ, AK 47/74 vs M14 and M16A1/2
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Russia issued a Kalashnikov stamp in 2014. It shows the inventor and his invention.
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I believe i have some Iranian covers that feature stamps in which the Kalishnakov is dominant. I'll try to find them, if I still have them.
I can't remember EVER seeing an M14 on a stamp; while being a good rifle, it neither enjoyed much longevity nor great production numbers compared to its predecessor or its successor.
From what little i've read, soldiers still use them in US, but either later sniper variants or as souped up modifieds, and value them tremendously
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Thanks for your interest, guys. I'll take a look at those links later today.
Nope, Musicman, neither of those rifles is an M14 or an AK-47. Both the M14 and the AK-47 have distinctive shapes.
This is the M-14. One of its distinctive features is the long flash suppressor at the muzzle; the rifle's length was a problem in jungle fighting in Vietnam:
The AK-47, considerably shorter than the M14, is identifiable by its long, curved magazine, which could hold several more cartridges than the M14, and by the piston tube atop the barrel, part of the mechanism for automatically ejecting spent shell casings and chambering and firing new bullets. The AK-47 was shorter than the M14 and altogether a better weapon for jungle fighting.
David wanted to know if I was interested in stamps that featured the rifles as their primary design element, or if they could be part of the design. Well, both, actually. I have several North Vietnam stamps and even one South Vietnam stamp which include AK-47s in the hands of soldiers, but no stamps at all that clearly show M14s. I'll post some scans later today.
Bob
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The Russian stamp of 2014 (SG8093) to which Jansimon refers has a portrait of the recently deceased (12.23.2013) Mikhail Kalashnikov, but the invention itself is silhouetted only faintly in the background (twice, they appear to be identical). You may want a better image if you're illustrating a topical page. I can't post the image here as I have not yet bought the stamp, but it features in a recent edition of the GSM stamp magazine.
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Bob:
Just a note on the AK-47. As a reservist in the Canadian Army, in the 1980s, we were trained on most of the CommBloc weapons. The Chinese SKS, the AK-47, etc. By far, to me, the AK-47 was the most impressive weapon I have ever fired and carried. It can be stripped down with a single round. No combi-tool required like the Canadian FNC1A1 that we used.
David
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What is it that Homer Simpson says? "D'oh!" I'm saying it too. After I posted my question about stamps picturing the AK-47, I thought, "Bob, did you check your North Vietnam/Vietnam collection?" I was too embarrassed to answer myself, but I did check it. Surprise, surprise! North Vietnam issued several stamps picturing the AK-47!
Here's one, commemorating the 40th anniversary of the beginning of the First Indochina War.
Here's another, with it twist. It shows an AK-47, a grenade launcher, and...an American M16! The stamp commemorates the 10th anniversary of the communist victory at Dien Bien Phu. I guess the M-16 image could be understood as a boast ("Look, we won the war and used some of their weapons to do it!") or a design by an artist who didn't know one rifle from another:
And here is a South Vietnam military stamp, issued in 1969, picturing an AK-47. It's a propaganda stamp picturing refugees from North Vietnam being pursued by North Vietnamese soldiers. A million North Vietnamese refugees, primarily Roman Catholics, really did flee North Vietnam in 1954-55, but not necessarily voluntarily. It was largely a result of propaganda by the South Vietnamese government and the CIA. There were cases where Catholic priests ordered entire villages to evacuate. The stamp is surprisingly crude:
Thanks for the note about the Russian stamp. I'll go searching for a copy.
David G., you're a lucky man to have actually fired an AK-47. I am — moral sin! — envious! In Vietnam, I never saw an AK-47. In fact, I've never seen one. I may have been shot by one, but there is evidence that it was an M14 in the hands of a North Vietnamese soldier.
Bob
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Bob, your 1985 stamp likely commemorates the fall of SVN, not the victory at Bien Dien Phu. The years match Saigon's fall, not the French defeat. And the M16 didn't exist in 1954, and I don't think it had been introduced to the Battlefield by 1964
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Bob:
I fired an SKS, Tokarev, and a Moisin-Nagant, too. I liked Mother Russia's AK-47. Frankly, I like anything .30 calibre.
I'll e-mail you off-line and we can discuss wound ballistics.
David
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David,
if you don't include this on the DB, would you send me the conversation; I am interested too
David
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David:
I'll have to clear your NATO security clearance with the R.C.M.P., first. 
I'll get you in the loop.
David
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don't need no steeenken NATO badgeees
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oh, wait, that's our other unsecured border
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David:
"Question: Why do we learn how to use CommBloc weapons?"
"Answer: Maybe the Americans aren't our friends."
- Opening statement by the senior officer on the course, 1988 CFB Petawawa.
David
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David,
wish that were funnier rather than truer, but we Americans see threats everywhere but where they exist
David
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David Teisler wrote, "Bob, your 1985 stamp likely commemorates the fall of SVN, not the victory at Bien Dien Phu."
Thanks for the correction, David. I knew that. I had just turned my brain to its lowest setting before "Off". 
Here's the same stamp (to save scrolling back):
And while I'm at it, I goofed on another description, too. This stamp...
doesn't commemorate the First Indochina War (19 December 1946 —1 August 1954) as I said, but the police force of Vietnam.
Note to self: Check facts, then click on "Submit Message".
Bob
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and thanks for not correcting my dyslexic approach to the battle's site
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Gents:
It looks like the first man in that stamp is carrying an American M16.
Thoughts?
David
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" It looks like the first man in that stamp is carrying an American M16."
Good Eye David
When I was in Basic early in 1965 we qualified on the rifle range using M1 Carbines, it was like shooting a BB Gun
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Petroguy:
I always wondered what those American M1 Carbines were like!
What is that you are standing beside, in your avatar?
David
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I've held an M1 Carbine, but never shot one. Marines in the Pacific during the Second World War complained about its insufficient stopping power and penetration.
Back to the AK-47 on stamps, here's one that puzzling me; I'm going blind trying to find it in Scott and in a specialized North Vietnam catalogue I have. Any ideas?
Bob
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Bob, from the catalog database on Colnect:
Vietnam Liberation of Hue
Series:
Victories in Tet offensive 1968
Catalog codes:
Michel VN 584
Issued on:
1969-09-20
Format:
Stamp
Emission:
Commemorative
Perforation:
11
Printing:
Offset lithography
Size:
31 x 46 mm
Face value:
12 Vietnamese xu
Mike in NC / meostamps
PS Bob, a nice thing about using the Colnect database is that one way you can search is by face value. Took me about 3 minutes to find it. www.colnect.com membership is free.
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OK guys, I have to defend the M1 Carbine. As an advisor to a Vietnamese Infantry Bn in 1967 we were not given M-16 because the Vietnamese did not have them. I was given a choice of a pistol or a M1 Carbine. I chose the Carbine because I really didn't want the enemy close enough to have to use a pistol. The Carbine was/is .30 caliber and had a folding stock and a large magazine which I taped 2 together. I also tried an M1 rifle, a French MAT 79 (way to heavy) and found that tip-toing through the jungle and rice paddies, the Carbine was the easiest to carry and quickest to use. The M1 Carbine served its purpose very well!! Would I rather have had a tank,
well yes, but not practical.
Mel
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@Meostamps — Thanks for this information, Mike. I've printed up the basics to include with the stamp in my stock book.
I wonder why it's not included in Scott. Perhaps it was never used postally. It's interesting that the stamp was issued to commemorate the "liberation" of Hue. Unless my history books and hundreds of web sites are wrong, Hue wasn't so much liberated as it was (mostly) occupied temporarily and in the end mostly destroyed as it was taken back by U.S. and ARVN troops. One of my neighbours in our apartment building here in Vancouver was born and grew up in Hue; she doesn't want to talk about the war and especially about what happened to Hue.
@Mel — I'm surprised that the ARVN didn't have M16s since the U.S. Army had been issued with them in 1963, according to Wikipedia. But, then, nothing about the Vietnam War should surprise me.
I found this interesting passage in a book M16, by Gordon Rottman:
Bob
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Bob, Scott does include it as part of a 5 stamp set, # 552-6, in my 2008 catalog. They list issue date of July 31, 1969. Under the "Republic of N V N" section.
Mike in NC / meostamps
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" What is that you are standing beside, in your avatar?"
That's a 16" Navy Shell, the type used on Battleships, weighs 2750 lbs. The picture was taken at The Fort MacArthur Military Museum here in San Pedro circa 1985.
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07:49:12pm
Which is usually dramatized as similar to a VW Beetle, filled with explosive hurtling twenty miles through the air. except the VW is not as aerodynamic.
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I am searching, so far unsuccessfully, for stamps picturing the American M14 rifle (the primary infantry rifle used early in the Vietnam War) and the Soviet-designed AK-47 rifle (used by communist soldiers throughout the Vietnam War and in wide use throughout the world today). If you are aware of any such stamps, please let me know either the Scott or Stanley Gibbons numbers, or both if possible.
Bob
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
do the rifles need to be the sole item on the stamp, or just part of the design?
David
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
#298 & #358
Are these possible?
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this post
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
this was pretty informative, although it uses the M14's replacement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16
and, even better and more to what you ask: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu37r-2sfkQ, AK 47/74 vs M14 and M16A1/2
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Russia issued a Kalashnikov stamp in 2014. It shows the inventor and his invention.
Login to Like
this post
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
I believe i have some Iranian covers that feature stamps in which the Kalishnakov is dominant. I'll try to find them, if I still have them.
I can't remember EVER seeing an M14 on a stamp; while being a good rifle, it neither enjoyed much longevity nor great production numbers compared to its predecessor or its successor.
From what little i've read, soldiers still use them in US, but either later sniper variants or as souped up modifieds, and value them tremendously
Login to Like
this post
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Thanks for your interest, guys. I'll take a look at those links later today.
Nope, Musicman, neither of those rifles is an M14 or an AK-47. Both the M14 and the AK-47 have distinctive shapes.
This is the M-14. One of its distinctive features is the long flash suppressor at the muzzle; the rifle's length was a problem in jungle fighting in Vietnam:
The AK-47, considerably shorter than the M14, is identifiable by its long, curved magazine, which could hold several more cartridges than the M14, and by the piston tube atop the barrel, part of the mechanism for automatically ejecting spent shell casings and chambering and firing new bullets. The AK-47 was shorter than the M14 and altogether a better weapon for jungle fighting.
David wanted to know if I was interested in stamps that featured the rifles as their primary design element, or if they could be part of the design. Well, both, actually. I have several North Vietnam stamps and even one South Vietnam stamp which include AK-47s in the hands of soldiers, but no stamps at all that clearly show M14s. I'll post some scans later today.
Bob
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this post
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
The Russian stamp of 2014 (SG8093) to which Jansimon refers has a portrait of the recently deceased (12.23.2013) Mikhail Kalashnikov, but the invention itself is silhouetted only faintly in the background (twice, they appear to be identical). You may want a better image if you're illustrating a topical page. I can't post the image here as I have not yet bought the stamp, but it features in a recent edition of the GSM stamp magazine.
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this post
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Bob:
Just a note on the AK-47. As a reservist in the Canadian Army, in the 1980s, we were trained on most of the CommBloc weapons. The Chinese SKS, the AK-47, etc. By far, to me, the AK-47 was the most impressive weapon I have ever fired and carried. It can be stripped down with a single round. No combi-tool required like the Canadian FNC1A1 that we used.
David
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this post
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
What is it that Homer Simpson says? "D'oh!" I'm saying it too. After I posted my question about stamps picturing the AK-47, I thought, "Bob, did you check your North Vietnam/Vietnam collection?" I was too embarrassed to answer myself, but I did check it. Surprise, surprise! North Vietnam issued several stamps picturing the AK-47!
Here's one, commemorating the 40th anniversary of the beginning of the First Indochina War.
Here's another, with it twist. It shows an AK-47, a grenade launcher, and...an American M16! The stamp commemorates the 10th anniversary of the communist victory at Dien Bien Phu. I guess the M-16 image could be understood as a boast ("Look, we won the war and used some of their weapons to do it!") or a design by an artist who didn't know one rifle from another:
And here is a South Vietnam military stamp, issued in 1969, picturing an AK-47. It's a propaganda stamp picturing refugees from North Vietnam being pursued by North Vietnamese soldiers. A million North Vietnamese refugees, primarily Roman Catholics, really did flee North Vietnam in 1954-55, but not necessarily voluntarily. It was largely a result of propaganda by the South Vietnamese government and the CIA. There were cases where Catholic priests ordered entire villages to evacuate. The stamp is surprisingly crude:
Thanks for the note about the Russian stamp. I'll go searching for a copy.
David G., you're a lucky man to have actually fired an AK-47. I am — moral sin! — envious! In Vietnam, I never saw an AK-47. In fact, I've never seen one. I may have been shot by one, but there is evidence that it was an M14 in the hands of a North Vietnamese soldier.
Bob
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Bob, your 1985 stamp likely commemorates the fall of SVN, not the victory at Bien Dien Phu. The years match Saigon's fall, not the French defeat. And the M16 didn't exist in 1954, and I don't think it had been introduced to the Battlefield by 1964
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Bob:
I fired an SKS, Tokarev, and a Moisin-Nagant, too. I liked Mother Russia's AK-47. Frankly, I like anything .30 calibre.
I'll e-mail you off-line and we can discuss wound ballistics.
David
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
David,
if you don't include this on the DB, would you send me the conversation; I am interested too
David
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
David:
I'll have to clear your NATO security clearance with the R.C.M.P., first.
I'll get you in the loop.
David
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this post
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
don't need no steeenken NATO badgeees
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
oh, wait, that's our other unsecured border
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
David:
"Question: Why do we learn how to use CommBloc weapons?"
"Answer: Maybe the Americans aren't our friends."
- Opening statement by the senior officer on the course, 1988 CFB Petawawa.
David
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
David,
wish that were funnier rather than truer, but we Americans see threats everywhere but where they exist
David
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
David Teisler wrote, "Bob, your 1985 stamp likely commemorates the fall of SVN, not the victory at Bien Dien Phu."
Thanks for the correction, David. I knew that. I had just turned my brain to its lowest setting before "Off".
Here's the same stamp (to save scrolling back):
And while I'm at it, I goofed on another description, too. This stamp...
doesn't commemorate the First Indochina War (19 December 1946 —1 August 1954) as I said, but the police force of Vietnam.
Note to self: Check facts, then click on "Submit Message".
Bob
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
and thanks for not correcting my dyslexic approach to the battle's site
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Gents:
It looks like the first man in that stamp is carrying an American M16.
Thoughts?
David
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
" It looks like the first man in that stamp is carrying an American M16."
Good Eye David
When I was in Basic early in 1965 we qualified on the rifle range using M1 Carbines, it was like shooting a BB Gun
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Petroguy:
I always wondered what those American M1 Carbines were like!
What is that you are standing beside, in your avatar?
David
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
I've held an M1 Carbine, but never shot one. Marines in the Pacific during the Second World War complained about its insufficient stopping power and penetration.
Back to the AK-47 on stamps, here's one that puzzling me; I'm going blind trying to find it in Scott and in a specialized North Vietnam catalogue I have. Any ideas?
Bob
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Bob, from the catalog database on Colnect:
Vietnam Liberation of Hue
Series:
Victories in Tet offensive 1968
Catalog codes:
Michel VN 584
Issued on:
1969-09-20
Format:
Stamp
Emission:
Commemorative
Perforation:
11
Printing:
Offset lithography
Size:
31 x 46 mm
Face value:
12 Vietnamese xu
Mike in NC / meostamps
PS Bob, a nice thing about using the Colnect database is that one way you can search is by face value. Took me about 3 minutes to find it. www.colnect.com membership is free.
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
OK guys, I have to defend the M1 Carbine. As an advisor to a Vietnamese Infantry Bn in 1967 we were not given M-16 because the Vietnamese did not have them. I was given a choice of a pistol or a M1 Carbine. I chose the Carbine because I really didn't want the enemy close enough to have to use a pistol. The Carbine was/is .30 caliber and had a folding stock and a large magazine which I taped 2 together. I also tried an M1 rifle, a French MAT 79 (way to heavy) and found that tip-toing through the jungle and rice paddies, the Carbine was the easiest to carry and quickest to use. The M1 Carbine served its purpose very well!! Would I rather have had a tank, well yes, but not practical.
Mel
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this post
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
@Meostamps — Thanks for this information, Mike. I've printed up the basics to include with the stamp in my stock book.
I wonder why it's not included in Scott. Perhaps it was never used postally. It's interesting that the stamp was issued to commemorate the "liberation" of Hue. Unless my history books and hundreds of web sites are wrong, Hue wasn't so much liberated as it was (mostly) occupied temporarily and in the end mostly destroyed as it was taken back by U.S. and ARVN troops. One of my neighbours in our apartment building here in Vancouver was born and grew up in Hue; she doesn't want to talk about the war and especially about what happened to Hue.
@Mel — I'm surprised that the ARVN didn't have M16s since the U.S. Army had been issued with them in 1963, according to Wikipedia. But, then, nothing about the Vietnam War should surprise me.
I found this interesting passage in a book M16, by Gordon Rottman:
Bob
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Bob, Scott does include it as part of a 5 stamp set, # 552-6, in my 2008 catalog. They list issue date of July 31, 1969. Under the "Republic of N V N" section.
Mike in NC / meostamps
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re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
" What is that you are standing beside, in your avatar?"
That's a 16" Navy Shell, the type used on Battleships, weighs 2750 lbs. The picture was taken at The Fort MacArthur Military Museum here in San Pedro circa 1985.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Jan 2016
07:49:12pm
re: M14 and/or AK-47 rifles on stamps
Which is usually dramatized as similar to a VW Beetle, filled with explosive hurtling twenty miles through the air. except the VW is not as aerodynamic.
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