Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Dan
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Yes, that Cabernet should be right at it's peak at 2020. The Leoville Las Cases of course stands head and shoulders above the others.
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I prefer a nice crisp 20/20. It was an adventure alright. 
-Ernie
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In all seriousness... don't have much experience with wines. My wife likes a couple of glasses of white zin when we go out but that's about it. Maybe some one could suggest some nice "starter wines" so one could begin to sort it out. Do you look to one particular region or vineyard? It's my perception from the media that California has "caught up" with the rest of the world and is being recognized for some very good wines.
-Ernie
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California caught up a few decades ago, I thought.
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according to wikipedia,
"A watershed moment for the industry occurred in 1976 when British wine merchant Steven Spurrier invited several Californian wineries to participate in a blind tasting event in Paris. It was to compare the best of California with the best of Bordeaux and Burgundy. In an event known as The Judgment of Paris, Californian wines shocked the world by sweeping the wine competition in both the red and white wine categories. "
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the great advance in California came not when the wines became wonderful and lush, it was when they proved perfectly drinkable earlier than their French counterparts.
Ernie, our palates tend to move from sweet and simple to more complex and tart or bitter, hence our movement from chilled grape juice to an aged Pauillac. So, for slightly sweeter whites, you could try a German Riesling (not an Alsacean), and if that's too sweet, move to a California Chardonnay (not a New York) or a Sauvignon blanc or its Italian equivalent, the sparklier Pinot Grigio.
In the reds, Syrahs and Shiraz are flavorful and generally not acidic, and so are good starter.
you should easily find any of these for under $10; under $5 and you might have wines that will cause you to end the experiment prematurely.
David
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Hey David,
Thank you for that explanation on how to "ease into" trying different wines. That actually makes a lot of sense. Maybe we'll pick up a bottle or two this weekend and do a little tasting. We've got a store here that sells nothing but wines and they advertise that they have many, many choices. That info gives us a starting point. Have a good day.
לחיי×
-Ernie
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good; and don't be afraid to ask the wine merchant for his recommendations.... tell him what you're doing, how much you want to spend
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Hi Ernie;
David is right, especially on the German Riesling, wines. I drink German wines almost exclusively,
and use California box wine for cooking, and for sauces to serve with meals.
About 60% of all German wines are from the state of Rhineland-Palatinate.
I always look for Weber or Black Cat. Those are names of importers, They mostly carry white wines.
They are usually available at any good wine store, or good wine sections in supermarkets. As
David said, in the range of $7 - $10 is a good typical price range.
These wines are great for the table with just about anything including fish or red meats. Another
good choice is Blue Nun, and is easily recognized in it's tall slender Cobalt Blue bottle, is easily
available, and some restaurants carry the label also.
My personal reasons for my preference to German wines is, only 9% alcohol, so no designated
driver needed. In addition, I don't care for wines that are astringent like Burgundy or Merlot.
I also do not like 'soda pop' wines, that are too sweet. An extreme example of 'soda pop' would
be Mogan David Concord wines. Altho Mogan David is a good kosher wine, and I don't mind one
small glass, but any more than that and I get very sour stomach.
Whatever you do Ernie, don't become a wine snob. You do not need to sniff corks, or swirl a
glass under your nose to enjoy a good glass of wine. Just try a few, drink what tastes good and
you can afford.
Just sippin'....
TuskenRaider
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A friend and I who had come of age decided to set up a wine club among us. We regularly tested mostly inexpensive wines. We both tended to prefer German whites at the time.
Of late i have been more a fan of mead lately and fruit wines.
This is my favorite, from WineHaven, and as a bonus it is made right here in Minnesota.
They also make good fruit wines, such as Rhubarb and Raspberry.
Another local favorite for fruit wines is Forestedge Winery. They offer a wider array of fruit wines as well as the classics.
We also have the Frontenac and Marquette grapes in Minnesota, developed by the University of Minnesota to be hardy for our climate. The Marquette shows the greatest promise in my mind, although I have tasted some mighty good Frontenacs as well.
When it occurs during Easter (as it usually does) I attend the Savor Minnesota event which has products from Minnesota (the vast majority of them wines) available for tasting. The last time I was there they finally had the good sense to allow you to buy up to 4 bottles of wine right at the event.
My problem is I forget to spit out the wine. 
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Good advice, Ken; thank you.
I had never really considered Germany as a wine "hot spot". Beer yes, but not wine. When I think of wine I think France, Italy but I guess most all Europeans enjoy wine.
Ken said,
"Whatever you do Ernie, don't become a wine snob. "
Don't worry, snobs and their snobbery make me laugh.
-Ernie
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From what I last heard the greatest per capita wine consuption by country in Europe was Portugal.
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Ernie,
Germany IS a great wine-producing country, but their wines are very different, generally, from those of France or Italy, for instance. Most German wines are on the sweet side, and don't always translate well to some dishes. Americans and Alsatians might take the same grapes and produce a less sweet, tarter wine; so, for instance, a Riesling or Gewurtztraminer from Germany will likely be more of what you will want to start with, eventually you might want to try one from Alsace or Washington State, where some of the sweetness is traded for tartness to, IMHO, great effect.
And, yes, I am generally happy to make the acquaintance of most German biers. My local store has been running a special on Konig Ludwig Dunkels, and I've been most happy with that dark hoppy bier.
David
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Did someone mention wine?
Winedrinker
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Lately it's been Yellow Tail Shiraz. Not fancy, but one of the finest "inexpensive wines" (I did not say cheap) on the rack at my grocery store. Prefer reds. Cabernet S., Shiraz, and anything along those lines that will stain my tongue and teeth to a rich shade of purple. Pinot Noir would be nice, but the good ones are quite dear.
Wine
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Nobody's mentioned Australia's Penfold Grange 2009 vintage AU$730.00 2008 AU$800.00.My son bought me a bottle of Penfolds Great Grandfather Port in a beautiful wooden box.It was only $300 ,I'm too scared to open it ,because I know it will not be around very long once I do .
I dooooo love my port.
Brian
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I had to give up all alcohol a couple of years ago in order to manage my A1C levels through diet, rather than medication, so my information may be a little out of date.
But Ernie, in your case, depending on the FL liquor laws, Trader Joe's may also be a good source for you. (I checked and there's one in your area.) If you ask, they often do have people there who know wine and are happy to talk with you about them.
Also (and this may have changed, or may not be allowed in your state), but they used to have a policy where, if you tried it and didn't like it, you could return it. That's pretty unusual.
At Trader Joe's, I tend to think that you can find decent lower-end wines in the $6-10 range. Basically, in my opinion, TJ's pricing will let you go below the $10 rule that David mentioned above, which, as a general principle, I really agree with.
Perhaps it's because we're near the "factory" out here, but I have thought that, in the lower price ranges, California wines will give you more bang for your buck than French ones, although there are absolutely magnificent French wines at higher price points. (As there are California wines as well.) (I say this having had to relocate to the Southeast for a year a couple of years ago, and was buying there.)
Again, back when I was active in it, I thought that Australian wines (say, in that TJ's $6-10+ range) also gave good value, as well as some South American wines.
But, despite advocating TJ's, I do agree that it's always nice to be able to support a local purveyor. You may pay a little more (although sometimes not), but they usually do really know their wines, enjoy them, and can come to understand your preferences and give you some really good guidance. They may also have some evening or weekend tastings that would be an affordable way to become familiar with a wider selection than you might be able to do on your own (unless you have a generous wine budget!).
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@Dave,
Thanks for heads up on that. Yes, we have a Trader Joe's out by the beach. I really appreciate that. My wife and I made some spicy fish tacos last weekend and we had two different Rieslings here. The guy at ABC liquors recommended one and the other was a gift from Christmas. We had a good time and my wife REALLY liked it. Turning my wife into a wino. Good times.
-Ernie
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You bet!
After I wrote that, I felt like I should've emphasized that this is just my opinion, and I'm a little out of the mix these days.
But wine is an area where it's always nice to get a little familiarity. I hope you and your wife will enjoy the journey!
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"Nobody's mentioned Australia's Penfold Grange 2009 vintage AU$730.00 2008 AU$800.00.My son bought me a bottle of Penfolds Great Grandfather Port in a beautiful wooden box.It was only $300 ,I'm too scared to open it ,because I know it will not be around very long once I do .
I dooooo love my port.
"
Leave the port for as long as you can ......... !
But not everyones palate is tuned in to expensive wine - Of course "Grange" is Shiraz and a good Australian Shiraz can be had for about $10.00AU (or Less) also a good alternative to Grandfather port or Galway Pipe (for Me) is good old Penfolds brown Muscat also about $10.00AU.
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I have to say that as a sommelier (?) I only deign to drink 3 wines - red,white and rose !!
Seriously the most expensive wines are not always the best,although the very cheapest are usually (but not always ) the least palatable.
Despite my comment above I mainly drink red wines ( and only with a meal - drinking wine "as a drink" always seems a bit effete and Upper Middle Class). I can't be bothered with all this red wine with red meat,white wine with chicken and fish guff. However I do think that fine wines are needed for fine dining, and delicate tastes.
For steaks,casseroles,cheese,game,roasts,venison and other plain or strong flavoured food I like my wine to be "robust"( translation - a bit rough !!). Moderately priced supermarket reds are perfectly acceptable, and when visiting France, wine cooperative reds collected in your own plastic bottles from 10000 litre tanks is quite good ( and cheap! ).
In the UK New world wines ( Australia New Zealand South Africa and California) tend to be universally more expensive than equivalent Western European, while Romanian and Bulgarian wines can best be described as an aquired taste. English wine is quite good, but overpriced.
Unless I can persuade "she who must be obeyed" I am usually driving when we go out for a meal so I have to restrict myself to a small beer with my food, as the permitted amount of wine just about fills a thimble.
Malcolm
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re: Wine Adventures
Yes, that Cabernet should be right at it's peak at 2020. The Leoville Las Cases of course stands head and shoulders above the others.
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re: Wine Adventures
I prefer a nice crisp 20/20. It was an adventure alright.
-Ernie
2 Members
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re: Wine Adventures
In all seriousness... don't have much experience with wines. My wife likes a couple of glasses of white zin when we go out but that's about it. Maybe some one could suggest some nice "starter wines" so one could begin to sort it out. Do you look to one particular region or vineyard? It's my perception from the media that California has "caught up" with the rest of the world and is being recognized for some very good wines.
-Ernie
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re: Wine Adventures
California caught up a few decades ago, I thought.
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re: Wine Adventures
according to wikipedia,
"A watershed moment for the industry occurred in 1976 when British wine merchant Steven Spurrier invited several Californian wineries to participate in a blind tasting event in Paris. It was to compare the best of California with the best of Bordeaux and Burgundy. In an event known as The Judgment of Paris, Californian wines shocked the world by sweeping the wine competition in both the red and white wine categories. "
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Auctions
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the great advance in California came not when the wines became wonderful and lush, it was when they proved perfectly drinkable earlier than their French counterparts.
Ernie, our palates tend to move from sweet and simple to more complex and tart or bitter, hence our movement from chilled grape juice to an aged Pauillac. So, for slightly sweeter whites, you could try a German Riesling (not an Alsacean), and if that's too sweet, move to a California Chardonnay (not a New York) or a Sauvignon blanc or its Italian equivalent, the sparklier Pinot Grigio.
In the reds, Syrahs and Shiraz are flavorful and generally not acidic, and so are good starter.
you should easily find any of these for under $10; under $5 and you might have wines that will cause you to end the experiment prematurely.
David
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re: Wine Adventures
Hey David,
Thank you for that explanation on how to "ease into" trying different wines. That actually makes a lot of sense. Maybe we'll pick up a bottle or two this weekend and do a little tasting. We've got a store here that sells nothing but wines and they advertise that they have many, many choices. That info gives us a starting point. Have a good day.
לחיי×
-Ernie
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good; and don't be afraid to ask the wine merchant for his recommendations.... tell him what you're doing, how much you want to spend
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re: Wine Adventures
Hi Ernie;
David is right, especially on the German Riesling, wines. I drink German wines almost exclusively,
and use California box wine for cooking, and for sauces to serve with meals.
About 60% of all German wines are from the state of Rhineland-Palatinate.
I always look for Weber or Black Cat. Those are names of importers, They mostly carry white wines.
They are usually available at any good wine store, or good wine sections in supermarkets. As
David said, in the range of $7 - $10 is a good typical price range.
These wines are great for the table with just about anything including fish or red meats. Another
good choice is Blue Nun, and is easily recognized in it's tall slender Cobalt Blue bottle, is easily
available, and some restaurants carry the label also.
My personal reasons for my preference to German wines is, only 9% alcohol, so no designated
driver needed. In addition, I don't care for wines that are astringent like Burgundy or Merlot.
I also do not like 'soda pop' wines, that are too sweet. An extreme example of 'soda pop' would
be Mogan David Concord wines. Altho Mogan David is a good kosher wine, and I don't mind one
small glass, but any more than that and I get very sour stomach.
Whatever you do Ernie, don't become a wine snob. You do not need to sniff corks, or swirl a
glass under your nose to enjoy a good glass of wine. Just try a few, drink what tastes good and
you can afford.
Just sippin'....
TuskenRaider
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this post
re: Wine Adventures
A friend and I who had come of age decided to set up a wine club among us. We regularly tested mostly inexpensive wines. We both tended to prefer German whites at the time.
Of late i have been more a fan of mead lately and fruit wines.
This is my favorite, from WineHaven, and as a bonus it is made right here in Minnesota.
They also make good fruit wines, such as Rhubarb and Raspberry.
Another local favorite for fruit wines is Forestedge Winery. They offer a wider array of fruit wines as well as the classics.
We also have the Frontenac and Marquette grapes in Minnesota, developed by the University of Minnesota to be hardy for our climate. The Marquette shows the greatest promise in my mind, although I have tasted some mighty good Frontenacs as well.
When it occurs during Easter (as it usually does) I attend the Savor Minnesota event which has products from Minnesota (the vast majority of them wines) available for tasting. The last time I was there they finally had the good sense to allow you to buy up to 4 bottles of wine right at the event.
My problem is I forget to spit out the wine.
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re: Wine Adventures
Good advice, Ken; thank you.
I had never really considered Germany as a wine "hot spot". Beer yes, but not wine. When I think of wine I think France, Italy but I guess most all Europeans enjoy wine.
Ken said,
"Whatever you do Ernie, don't become a wine snob. "
Don't worry, snobs and their snobbery make me laugh.
-Ernie
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re: Wine Adventures
From what I last heard the greatest per capita wine consuption by country in Europe was Portugal.
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Auctions
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Ernie,
Germany IS a great wine-producing country, but their wines are very different, generally, from those of France or Italy, for instance. Most German wines are on the sweet side, and don't always translate well to some dishes. Americans and Alsatians might take the same grapes and produce a less sweet, tarter wine; so, for instance, a Riesling or Gewurtztraminer from Germany will likely be more of what you will want to start with, eventually you might want to try one from Alsace or Washington State, where some of the sweetness is traded for tartness to, IMHO, great effect.
And, yes, I am generally happy to make the acquaintance of most German biers. My local store has been running a special on Konig Ludwig Dunkels, and I've been most happy with that dark hoppy bier.
David
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re: Wine Adventures
Did someone mention wine?
Winedrinker
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re: Wine Adventures
Lately it's been Yellow Tail Shiraz. Not fancy, but one of the finest "inexpensive wines" (I did not say cheap) on the rack at my grocery store. Prefer reds. Cabernet S., Shiraz, and anything along those lines that will stain my tongue and teeth to a rich shade of purple. Pinot Noir would be nice, but the good ones are quite dear.
Wine
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re: Wine Adventures
Nobody's mentioned Australia's Penfold Grange 2009 vintage AU$730.00 2008 AU$800.00.My son bought me a bottle of Penfolds Great Grandfather Port in a beautiful wooden box.It was only $300 ,I'm too scared to open it ,because I know it will not be around very long once I do .
I dooooo love my port.
Brian
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re: Wine Adventures
I had to give up all alcohol a couple of years ago in order to manage my A1C levels through diet, rather than medication, so my information may be a little out of date.
But Ernie, in your case, depending on the FL liquor laws, Trader Joe's may also be a good source for you. (I checked and there's one in your area.) If you ask, they often do have people there who know wine and are happy to talk with you about them.
Also (and this may have changed, or may not be allowed in your state), but they used to have a policy where, if you tried it and didn't like it, you could return it. That's pretty unusual.
At Trader Joe's, I tend to think that you can find decent lower-end wines in the $6-10 range. Basically, in my opinion, TJ's pricing will let you go below the $10 rule that David mentioned above, which, as a general principle, I really agree with.
Perhaps it's because we're near the "factory" out here, but I have thought that, in the lower price ranges, California wines will give you more bang for your buck than French ones, although there are absolutely magnificent French wines at higher price points. (As there are California wines as well.) (I say this having had to relocate to the Southeast for a year a couple of years ago, and was buying there.)
Again, back when I was active in it, I thought that Australian wines (say, in that TJ's $6-10+ range) also gave good value, as well as some South American wines.
But, despite advocating TJ's, I do agree that it's always nice to be able to support a local purveyor. You may pay a little more (although sometimes not), but they usually do really know their wines, enjoy them, and can come to understand your preferences and give you some really good guidance. They may also have some evening or weekend tastings that would be an affordable way to become familiar with a wider selection than you might be able to do on your own (unless you have a generous wine budget!).
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re: Wine Adventures
@Dave,
Thanks for heads up on that. Yes, we have a Trader Joe's out by the beach. I really appreciate that. My wife and I made some spicy fish tacos last weekend and we had two different Rieslings here. The guy at ABC liquors recommended one and the other was a gift from Christmas. We had a good time and my wife REALLY liked it. Turning my wife into a wino. Good times.
-Ernie
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re: Wine Adventures
You bet!
After I wrote that, I felt like I should've emphasized that this is just my opinion, and I'm a little out of the mix these days.
But wine is an area where it's always nice to get a little familiarity. I hope you and your wife will enjoy the journey!
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re: Wine Adventures
"Nobody's mentioned Australia's Penfold Grange 2009 vintage AU$730.00 2008 AU$800.00.My son bought me a bottle of Penfolds Great Grandfather Port in a beautiful wooden box.It was only $300 ,I'm too scared to open it ,because I know it will not be around very long once I do .
I dooooo love my port.
"
Leave the port for as long as you can ......... !
But not everyones palate is tuned in to expensive wine - Of course "Grange" is Shiraz and a good Australian Shiraz can be had for about $10.00AU (or Less) also a good alternative to Grandfather port or Galway Pipe (for Me) is good old Penfolds brown Muscat also about $10.00AU.
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07:17:02pm
re: Wine Adventures
I have to say that as a sommelier (?) I only deign to drink 3 wines - red,white and rose !!
Seriously the most expensive wines are not always the best,although the very cheapest are usually (but not always ) the least palatable.
Despite my comment above I mainly drink red wines ( and only with a meal - drinking wine "as a drink" always seems a bit effete and Upper Middle Class). I can't be bothered with all this red wine with red meat,white wine with chicken and fish guff. However I do think that fine wines are needed for fine dining, and delicate tastes.
For steaks,casseroles,cheese,game,roasts,venison and other plain or strong flavoured food I like my wine to be "robust"( translation - a bit rough !!). Moderately priced supermarket reds are perfectly acceptable, and when visiting France, wine cooperative reds collected in your own plastic bottles from 10000 litre tanks is quite good ( and cheap! ).
In the UK New world wines ( Australia New Zealand South Africa and California) tend to be universally more expensive than equivalent Western European, while Romanian and Bulgarian wines can best be described as an aquired taste. English wine is quite good, but overpriced.
Unless I can persuade "she who must be obeyed" I am usually driving when we go out for a meal so I have to restrict myself to a small beer with my food, as the permitted amount of wine just about fills a thimble.
Malcolm
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