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Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
http://bestpictureblog.com/20-facts-about-england-you-may-find-quite-surprising/19/
http://bestpictureblog.com/20-facts-about-england-you-may-find-quite-surprising/20/
(Modified by Moderator on 2016-02-18 14:53:23)
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oh, ok... treason! very cool indeed....
Makes you wonder if people make, or have made, political statements with how they use or "embellish" a stamp on cover.
Makes me think of how WB referenced "Washington taking a nap" the other day. That same sort of creativity could be used to make subtle or not so subtle references. Consider the following:
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They sure have. It was a form of protest, and I believe illegal as well, in the UK to put a stamp with the monarch's image upside down on the envelope.
Some countries made it illegal for a postal clerk to apply the cancel over the face of the monarch. One country had it "under penalty of death" - that would end the Sharpie attacks! Some clerks not happy with things did apply the cancel.
In the USA, displaying the flag upside down is a protest. It is not illegal, however, to do that.
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Michael Numbers said:
"In the USA, displaying the flag upside down is a protest."
I thought it meant distress or surrender?
"THE UNITED STATES FLAG CODE. Title 4, Chapter 1. § 8(a)The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property"
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I know counterculture folks flew the American flag upside down to protest the war in Vietnam.
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My husband accidently put the flag upside down at his work one day. He saw it as soon as he ran it up the flag pole and changed it but his fellow workers didn't let him ever forget that.
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Sorry to rain on this parade but it has never been treason in the UK "to place a stamp bearing the King or Queen’s image upside-down".
We have lots of silly laws in the UK but this is not one of them! 
This story pops up from time to time, journalists or bloggers think it's funny and it gets published again and again.
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Well, there goes that urban legend!
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Strange Coincidence. I just happened to be watching the the film called "The Last Castle" with Robert Redford tonight. Strong references towards the how the US flag could be used as a sign of distress if raised upside down. The last scene of the film was interesting. "I bet you know this" last scene.
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Then there's this infamous mistake at the 1992 World Series game 2 in Atlanta, between the Braves and the Toronto Blue Jays:
Conspiracy theorists might say the Marine Color Guard implied a "Canadian distress" message before the game. Didn't matter; Atlanta lost that game.
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"Didn't matter; Atlanta lost that game."
And the series . . . again.
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"I thought it meant distress"
Agreed. The U.S. flag flown INTENTIONALLY upside-down is a sign of distress. It seems hard to imagine flying the U.S. Flag or the Canadian flag upside-down by accident, but other flags, like the flag of the Texas Republic or the Union Jack, could easily be flow upside-down by accident. Being from Texas, I would IMMEDIATELY spot a Lone Star flag flown upside-down (and so notified the manager of the local Texas Roadhouse when it happened here), but I doubt many Americans (or Brits, for that matter) would recognize that the Union Jack was being flown upside-down.
Lars
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The Union Flag (never "Jack" -that is the same flag with a white border traditionally flown at the jackstaff - on the bow of a ship) is often flown upside down in foreign countries - and sometimes but seldom here - the majority of people know which is the right way. I remember as an 11 year old Boy Scout at my first meeting being told which way up it should be flown, along with the history of the constituent flags.
Perhaps one of the reasons it is seldom flown the wrong way is that here in the U.K. we have never got the habit of flying the national flag on domestic property, although the flags of St.George (England), St.Andrew (Scotland) and the dragon of Wales are flown thus- usually on or around a sporting occasion. Regrettably the flag of St.George is often flown by persons with particularly unpleasant political affiliations, which rather debases the flag.
Malcolm
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As a former and fairly unrepentant member of the "counterculture folk" (see a few posts above) I'm rather glad that we in the UK do not accord daily reverence for a piece of patterned cloth. Like Malcolm, I remember having to salute this when a Boy Scout, and thinking then that such rituals were inexplicable bordering on idiotic.
But there I go (on another part of the DB) deploring our attitude towards commemorative stamps, when actually all that might be is a separate, but similar, part of the otherwise admirable British talent for refusal to defer!
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https://stamporama.com/upload/2000751236.jpg
Leaves hang from trees ... I'd say our boys have it right!
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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"The Union Flag (never "Jack" -that is the same flag with a white border traditionally flown at the jackstaff - on the bow of a ship)..."
Really? This is from a web site purporting to be the "Official website of the British Monarchy" (http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Symbols/UnionJack.aspx):
"The Union Flag, or Union Jack, is the national flag of the United Kingdom."
"...is often flown upside down in foreign countries - and sometimes but seldom here - the majority of people know which is the right way."
I'm so pleased the "right sort of folks" know how to display it properly:
Recognize anyone in the front row? That photo was taken at the 2012 Olympics in London. It was that image that caused me to originally state:
"I doubt many Americans (or Brits, for that matter) would recognize that the Union Jack was being flown upside-down."
I believe I will stand by my original statement.
Lars
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As a protest against the Japanese Prime Interest rate falling to 0.00% in 2010 a prominent banker flew the national flag upside down for 27 consecutive weeks before being caught after an anonymous tip to the government. As punishment he was banished in disgrace to Detroit.
In the Ivory Coast, a student activist protested high college tuition fees (reaching almost US$10 annually) by wearing a t-shirt with the national flag printed backwards. In retaliation (although they claim an honest mistake) the Immigration Police deported her to Ireland. She is now an alcoholic.
I once flew the Canadian flag upside down for no good reason whatsoever. A government official came to my house and pointed it out, apologizing for having to do so. The House of Commons then expressed deep regret about the embarrassing incident, and formed a Royal Commission to investigate. They remorsefully ordered a new department be formed to right such wrongs and to apologize to other victims of this error in protocol. I apologized for causing such a fuss and we all got some beer and maple-glazed donuts and watched the Maple Leafs usual race for the cellar. God bless democracy!
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Lars
I stand corrected ! Reference to the Wikipedia article on the Union Jack explains the for and against arguments. It is more a case of my interpretation being out of date rather than totally wrong.
If officialdom is in so much confusion what hope is there for us mere mortals ! There is more custom and practice, confused precedent, and more grey areas than a monochrome photograph !!! I think Union Jack is accepted now by common usage, and has developed into a quasi-official name. I am equally sure that in the depths of the past was that other than for naval use the intention was always to be termed Union Flag. Certainly as a youngster I was always told that it was the Union Flag, and in my Boy Scout days it was a figurative rap on the knuckles if one referred to it any other way ! Isn't it funny how one accepts what one is told in the formative years as Gospel for evermore?
After all "Jack" is by definition a Naval flag !
Malcolm
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I share Malcolm's slight sense of dismay. This seems to be an example of where current and popular English language usage has supplanted what many years ago we were taught was simply wrong.
There are many examples of this, since language is in a constant state of flux. Academic linguists will never state that such and such a usage is 'wrong', whereas ex-teachers like myself will continue to grumble!
Here's a recent exchange:
Six year-old child, putting down pencil: I'm done.
Grumpy Mr G., half to himself: ...Or as we say in English, 'I've finished'.
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My favorite T-shirt (spotted on someone else, as it were) featured an American flag and, in bold white letters on a black background, bore the unedited text: TRY BURNING THIS ONE, A******
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Mr G.
I love it ! I am a frustrated wanna-be teacher ( oops even I am at it !), but being a working-class Grammar School boy ( US citizens please don't ask me to explain),I took a certain pride in my hard-learned written and spoken (albeit broad Yorkshire accent) English.Fast forward several years and my secondary school age sons bring home notes from school written in (vaguely) English with cringeworthy punctuation,spelling and syntax.
I felt like sending them back with a red ink note saying " 7/10 see me ! "( Guthrum will know what I refer to!).
Note I am not a University graduate, but after leaving school worked in an office where it was necessary to write letters to members of the general public, many of whom were much less educated than our scribes. One developed a style which combined brevity and simplicity with a clarity necessary to avoid any possibility of ambiguity. Whatever you might think about too much attention to the details of spelling and punctuation they are necessary to ensure the total understanding of the recipient. I must confess to being slightly insulted when the teachers concerned obviously couldn't be bothered to take the time and trouble to write clearly.
At the time teachers were still taught proper English - however I have my doubts that that applies today!
Malcolm
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http://bestpictureblog.com/20-facts-about-england-you-may-find-quite-surprising/18/
http://bestpictureblog.com/20-facts-about-england-you-may-find-quite-surprising/19/
http://bestpictureblog.com/20-facts-about-england-you-may-find-quite-surprising/20/
(Modified by Moderator on 2016-02-18 14:53:23)
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re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
oh, ok... treason! very cool indeed....
Makes you wonder if people make, or have made, political statements with how they use or "embellish" a stamp on cover.
Makes me think of how WB referenced "Washington taking a nap" the other day. That same sort of creativity could be used to make subtle or not so subtle references. Consider the following:
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this post
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
They sure have. It was a form of protest, and I believe illegal as well, in the UK to put a stamp with the monarch's image upside down on the envelope.
Some countries made it illegal for a postal clerk to apply the cancel over the face of the monarch. One country had it "under penalty of death" - that would end the Sharpie attacks! Some clerks not happy with things did apply the cancel.
In the USA, displaying the flag upside down is a protest. It is not illegal, however, to do that.
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04:53:11pm
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
Michael Numbers said:
"In the USA, displaying the flag upside down is a protest."
I thought it meant distress or surrender?
"THE UNITED STATES FLAG CODE. Title 4, Chapter 1. § 8(a)The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property"
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re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
I know counterculture folks flew the American flag upside down to protest the war in Vietnam.
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06:02:18pm
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
My husband accidently put the flag upside down at his work one day. He saw it as soon as he ran it up the flag pole and changed it but his fellow workers didn't let him ever forget that.
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re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
Sorry to rain on this parade but it has never been treason in the UK "to place a stamp bearing the King or Queen’s image upside-down".
We have lots of silly laws in the UK but this is not one of them!
This story pops up from time to time, journalists or bloggers think it's funny and it gets published again and again.
Login to Like
this post
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
Well, there goes that urban legend!
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07:29:09am
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
Strange Coincidence. I just happened to be watching the the film called "The Last Castle" with Robert Redford tonight. Strong references towards the how the US flag could be used as a sign of distress if raised upside down. The last scene of the film was interesting. "I bet you know this" last scene.
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08:51:35am
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
Then there's this infamous mistake at the 1992 World Series game 2 in Atlanta, between the Braves and the Toronto Blue Jays:
Conspiracy theorists might say the Marine Color Guard implied a "Canadian distress" message before the game. Didn't matter; Atlanta lost that game.
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re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
"Didn't matter; Atlanta lost that game."
And the series . . . again.
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re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
"I thought it meant distress"
Agreed. The U.S. flag flown INTENTIONALLY upside-down is a sign of distress. It seems hard to imagine flying the U.S. Flag or the Canadian flag upside-down by accident, but other flags, like the flag of the Texas Republic or the Union Jack, could easily be flow upside-down by accident. Being from Texas, I would IMMEDIATELY spot a Lone Star flag flown upside-down (and so notified the manager of the local Texas Roadhouse when it happened here), but I doubt many Americans (or Brits, for that matter) would recognize that the Union Jack was being flown upside-down.
Lars
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02:29:29pm
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
The Union Flag (never "Jack" -that is the same flag with a white border traditionally flown at the jackstaff - on the bow of a ship) is often flown upside down in foreign countries - and sometimes but seldom here - the majority of people know which is the right way. I remember as an 11 year old Boy Scout at my first meeting being told which way up it should be flown, along with the history of the constituent flags.
Perhaps one of the reasons it is seldom flown the wrong way is that here in the U.K. we have never got the habit of flying the national flag on domestic property, although the flags of St.George (England), St.Andrew (Scotland) and the dragon of Wales are flown thus- usually on or around a sporting occasion. Regrettably the flag of St.George is often flown by persons with particularly unpleasant political affiliations, which rather debases the flag.
Malcolm
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this post
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
As a former and fairly unrepentant member of the "counterculture folk" (see a few posts above) I'm rather glad that we in the UK do not accord daily reverence for a piece of patterned cloth. Like Malcolm, I remember having to salute this when a Boy Scout, and thinking then that such rituals were inexplicable bordering on idiotic.
But there I go (on another part of the DB) deploring our attitude towards commemorative stamps, when actually all that might be is a separate, but similar, part of the otherwise admirable British talent for refusal to defer!
Login to Like
this post
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
https://stamporama.com/upload/2000751236.jpg
Leaves hang from trees ... I'd say our boys have it right!
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
"The Union Flag (never "Jack" -that is the same flag with a white border traditionally flown at the jackstaff - on the bow of a ship)..."
Really? This is from a web site purporting to be the "Official website of the British Monarchy" (http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Symbols/UnionJack.aspx):
"The Union Flag, or Union Jack, is the national flag of the United Kingdom."
"...is often flown upside down in foreign countries - and sometimes but seldom here - the majority of people know which is the right way."
I'm so pleased the "right sort of folks" know how to display it properly:
Recognize anyone in the front row? That photo was taken at the 2012 Olympics in London. It was that image that caused me to originally state:
"I doubt many Americans (or Brits, for that matter) would recognize that the Union Jack was being flown upside-down."
I believe I will stand by my original statement.
Lars
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this post
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
As a protest against the Japanese Prime Interest rate falling to 0.00% in 2010 a prominent banker flew the national flag upside down for 27 consecutive weeks before being caught after an anonymous tip to the government. As punishment he was banished in disgrace to Detroit.
In the Ivory Coast, a student activist protested high college tuition fees (reaching almost US$10 annually) by wearing a t-shirt with the national flag printed backwards. In retaliation (although they claim an honest mistake) the Immigration Police deported her to Ireland. She is now an alcoholic.
I once flew the Canadian flag upside down for no good reason whatsoever. A government official came to my house and pointed it out, apologizing for having to do so. The House of Commons then expressed deep regret about the embarrassing incident, and formed a Royal Commission to investigate. They remorsefully ordered a new department be formed to right such wrongs and to apologize to other victims of this error in protocol. I apologized for causing such a fuss and we all got some beer and maple-glazed donuts and watched the Maple Leafs usual race for the cellar. God bless democracy!
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05:16:39pm
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
Lars
I stand corrected ! Reference to the Wikipedia article on the Union Jack explains the for and against arguments. It is more a case of my interpretation being out of date rather than totally wrong.
If officialdom is in so much confusion what hope is there for us mere mortals ! There is more custom and practice, confused precedent, and more grey areas than a monochrome photograph !!! I think Union Jack is accepted now by common usage, and has developed into a quasi-official name. I am equally sure that in the depths of the past was that other than for naval use the intention was always to be termed Union Flag. Certainly as a youngster I was always told that it was the Union Flag, and in my Boy Scout days it was a figurative rap on the knuckles if one referred to it any other way ! Isn't it funny how one accepts what one is told in the formative years as Gospel for evermore?
After all "Jack" is by definition a Naval flag !
Malcolm
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this post
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
I share Malcolm's slight sense of dismay. This seems to be an example of where current and popular English language usage has supplanted what many years ago we were taught was simply wrong.
There are many examples of this, since language is in a constant state of flux. Academic linguists will never state that such and such a usage is 'wrong', whereas ex-teachers like myself will continue to grumble!
Here's a recent exchange:
Six year-old child, putting down pencil: I'm done.
Grumpy Mr G., half to himself: ...Or as we say in English, 'I've finished'.
Login to Like
this post
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
My favorite T-shirt (spotted on someone else, as it were) featured an American flag and, in bold white letters on a black background, bore the unedited text: TRY BURNING THIS ONE, A******
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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this post
03:01:26pm
re: I bet you didn't know this !!!
Mr G.
I love it ! I am a frustrated wanna-be teacher ( oops even I am at it !), but being a working-class Grammar School boy ( US citizens please don't ask me to explain),I took a certain pride in my hard-learned written and spoken (albeit broad Yorkshire accent) English.Fast forward several years and my secondary school age sons bring home notes from school written in (vaguely) English with cringeworthy punctuation,spelling and syntax.
I felt like sending them back with a red ink note saying " 7/10 see me ! "( Guthrum will know what I refer to!).
Note I am not a University graduate, but after leaving school worked in an office where it was necessary to write letters to members of the general public, many of whom were much less educated than our scribes. One developed a style which combined brevity and simplicity with a clarity necessary to avoid any possibility of ambiguity. Whatever you might think about too much attention to the details of spelling and punctuation they are necessary to ensure the total understanding of the recipient. I must confess to being slightly insulted when the teachers concerned obviously couldn't be bothered to take the time and trouble to write clearly.
At the time teachers were still taught proper English - however I have my doubts that that applies today!
Malcolm
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