I really hope this is true.
If you look at the pointed angels at the top of the images, you'll see that both tips of the angle on the red brown stamp are cut off, while the tips on the brown stamp are complete.
Also the large dot at the bottom of the image shows a complete circle on the brown stamps, while on the red brown stamp is is flat.
Interesting if these are recut dies for the red brown stamps, and if the differences pointed out in my reply and the original post are consistent.
Hi,
I know nothing about these, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
If you look at the vertical lines of shading at the top of your scans, the bottom stamp has two more lines of shading between the angles. (The same appears to be true also for the next region to the left, but there is not enough shown to be sure.)
Jan
Very good eye Jan. I never would have picked up on that.
I'm not so sure about anything that we said here. I have been working on a couple of postage dues from this series. I took a look at all of mine, and found that the features are inconsistent based on over-inking, worn plates, etc.
Here is a link that discusses the postage dues, but states that ID is by color only.
http://www.shaulisstamps.com/tips/PostageDues.htm
Here is a site that offers images of the three different main colors:
http://values.hobbizine.com/stamps/us-due-1879-97.html
I found some images of these postage dues, but they were identified wrong. An obvious brown stamp listed as a claret, etc. So, it looks like confusion on this issue is normal.
The best that I could gather from the internet is that not counting the special reprints, there are three releases on the original postage due design, and under magnification:
- the first issue is brown and will show only brown
- the second issue is red brown and will show both brown and red
- the third issue is claret and will not show any brown
Exactly how helpful this is, I don't know. The Scott US Specialized Catalog also shows shades for each of these colors.
As it turns out, I'm in the middle of a project regarding BOB plates.
The EXACT same set of plates (1 to 2 for each denomination) were used to print the respective denominations for ALL 3 sets:
J1-J7(1879) brown +shades
J15-J21(1884) red brown +shades
J22-J28(1884) bright claret +shades
Therefore, any differences between the first and last issues would be due to plate wear or repair/modifications to specific positions. Since the original plates are the same, you cannot really apply a general rule, unless you were speaking of a specific pane position.
It would stand to reason, that the more wear on a plate, the more likely to be 1884 issue. But there are so many other factors (inking, fading, stamp position) that it's tricky to ID based on that alone.
Regarding the 2 stamps pictured in the OP -- are those both from the same denomination? You cannot make comparisons between different denominations, even if they were taken from the same issue. The plates for different denominations are NOT necessarily identical (i.e., one cannot automatically assume the only difference is in the denomination). Even though the basic frame design might be similar, believe it or not, sometimes they do make very minor changes in the frame as they make the die for subsequent denominations. Sometimes the changes are intentional, sometimes unintentional. This is also true for worldwide sets as well.
"- the first issue is brown and will show only brown
- the second issue is red brown and will show both brown and red
- the third issue is claret and will not show any brown"
I'm about ready to pull all of my stamps from these three issues off my album page, put them in a brown bag, shake them up and put them back in the album in the order that I pick them out of the bag.
Stamps of the Bright Claret issue will glow under long wave UV light. The browns will not. However, its the browns that are hardest to separate.
"The standard way of differentiating the 1879 postage due stamps (J1 – J7) from 1884 postage due stamps (J15 – J21) is color. The 1879 stamps are brown and the 1884 stamps are red brown. The problem is that with years of fading, sometimes the two colors are very difficult to tell apart. I was wondering if there was an alternate way to tell the stamps apart. "
The covers don't fit in my album space!
You can cut them out of the covers to make them fit.
The standard way of differentiating the 1879 postage due stamps (J1 – J7) from 1884 postage due stamps (J15 – J21) is color. The 1879 stamps are brown and the 1884 stamps are red brown. The problem is that with years of fading, sometimes the two colors are very difficult to tell apart. I was wondering if there was an alternate way to tell the stamps apart. I have noticed that some of the stamps have lines in the frame along the border and others are shaded (see pictures below). This implies to me that there were two different plates used to produce the stamps. Does anyone know if this characteristic can be used as an alternate method to identify 1879 vs. 1884 postage due stamps? If so, which is which?
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
I really hope this is true.
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
If you look at the pointed angels at the top of the images, you'll see that both tips of the angle on the red brown stamp are cut off, while the tips on the brown stamp are complete.
Also the large dot at the bottom of the image shows a complete circle on the brown stamps, while on the red brown stamp is is flat.
Interesting if these are recut dies for the red brown stamps, and if the differences pointed out in my reply and the original post are consistent.
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
Hi,
I know nothing about these, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
If you look at the vertical lines of shading at the top of your scans, the bottom stamp has two more lines of shading between the angles. (The same appears to be true also for the next region to the left, but there is not enough shown to be sure.)
Jan
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
Very good eye Jan. I never would have picked up on that.
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
I'm not so sure about anything that we said here. I have been working on a couple of postage dues from this series. I took a look at all of mine, and found that the features are inconsistent based on over-inking, worn plates, etc.
Here is a link that discusses the postage dues, but states that ID is by color only.
http://www.shaulisstamps.com/tips/PostageDues.htm
Here is a site that offers images of the three different main colors:
http://values.hobbizine.com/stamps/us-due-1879-97.html
I found some images of these postage dues, but they were identified wrong. An obvious brown stamp listed as a claret, etc. So, it looks like confusion on this issue is normal.
The best that I could gather from the internet is that not counting the special reprints, there are three releases on the original postage due design, and under magnification:
- the first issue is brown and will show only brown
- the second issue is red brown and will show both brown and red
- the third issue is claret and will not show any brown
Exactly how helpful this is, I don't know. The Scott US Specialized Catalog also shows shades for each of these colors.
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
As it turns out, I'm in the middle of a project regarding BOB plates.
The EXACT same set of plates (1 to 2 for each denomination) were used to print the respective denominations for ALL 3 sets:
J1-J7(1879) brown +shades
J15-J21(1884) red brown +shades
J22-J28(1884) bright claret +shades
Therefore, any differences between the first and last issues would be due to plate wear or repair/modifications to specific positions. Since the original plates are the same, you cannot really apply a general rule, unless you were speaking of a specific pane position.
It would stand to reason, that the more wear on a plate, the more likely to be 1884 issue. But there are so many other factors (inking, fading, stamp position) that it's tricky to ID based on that alone.
Regarding the 2 stamps pictured in the OP -- are those both from the same denomination? You cannot make comparisons between different denominations, even if they were taken from the same issue. The plates for different denominations are NOT necessarily identical (i.e., one cannot automatically assume the only difference is in the denomination). Even though the basic frame design might be similar, believe it or not, sometimes they do make very minor changes in the frame as they make the die for subsequent denominations. Sometimes the changes are intentional, sometimes unintentional. This is also true for worldwide sets as well.
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
"- the first issue is brown and will show only brown
- the second issue is red brown and will show both brown and red
- the third issue is claret and will not show any brown"
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
I'm about ready to pull all of my stamps from these three issues off my album page, put them in a brown bag, shake them up and put them back in the album in the order that I pick them out of the bag.
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
Stamps of the Bright Claret issue will glow under long wave UV light. The browns will not. However, its the browns that are hardest to separate.
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
"The standard way of differentiating the 1879 postage due stamps (J1 – J7) from 1884 postage due stamps (J15 – J21) is color. The 1879 stamps are brown and the 1884 stamps are red brown. The problem is that with years of fading, sometimes the two colors are very difficult to tell apart. I was wondering if there was an alternate way to tell the stamps apart. "
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
The covers don't fit in my album space!
re: Help: Identification of Postage due: 1879 vs 1884
You can cut them out of the covers to make them fit.