Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I hope to learn if it was issued after or before the Tonkin Gulf Incident of August 2-4, 1964, in which two American destroyers supposedly came under fire from North Vietnamese gunboats. President Johnson used the "attacks" — which even the American military admits never happened — as a pretext for requesting a congressional resolution, known as the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which on August 7 passed unanimously in the House and with only two dissenting votes in the Senate. The resolution gave him the power to wage war in Southeast Asia as he saw fit.
The Scott catalogue does not list any Cuban stamps issued after Feb. 7, 1962, when President Kennedy ordered an embargo on them and all other Cuban products. That embargo is still in place.
Bob
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Stampworld.com gives an issue date of 20 July.
http://www.stampworld.com/en/stamps/Cuba/Postage%20stamps/1899-2015?user=0&page=19
Ted
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Thank you, Ted! I was not aware of the stamp world.com web site. I think that will be very useful!
The July 20 issue date is interesting. Of course, the U.S. was already heavily involved in what was called the Second Vietnam War. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution just made that involvement "official," more or less. The U.S. never did declare war on North Vietnam.
Most Americans were scarcely aware of Vietnam or the war at that time, and that includes myself. I saw the news about the first attack in the Tonkin Gulf on Japanese television. I was visiting my girlfriend and her family; they didn't speak English, and the Japanese news was only in Japanese, but I could tell from the images that trouble was brewing for me personally. I was a U.S. Navy hospital corpsmen, and I realized that I would probably be seconded to the U.S. Marines, and that's exactly what happened a year later. As the words of the Johnny Wright song say, "Hello Vietnam!" I'm afraid that I wasn't quite as patriotic as the words indicate the singer was.
Bob
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Actually, the Scott catalog does now list modern Cuban stamps.
In the 2016 Scott catalog, your set is Cuba #846-849(20Jul1964) at $4.50 for mint.
My older Scott catalogs are in storage. But oldest one I have here that has the modern Cuban stamps listed/priced is 2007. I don't remember the exact year, but I'm think they started the modern Cuban listings only a couple of years before that.
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"... I'm afraid that I wasn't quite as patriotic as the words indicate the singer was ..."
Perhaps
I transited from 'Support Our Boys' rallies to 'the right war in the wrong place at the wrong time', myself, but I have never agreed that Love Of Country requires agreement with every, uh, foreign policy initiative.
The 3c & 13c themes are those of the NLF, and the 13c specifically cites "del Sur" ... I wonder who was saying what about whom. Perhaps Ho Chi Minh, mindful of the Soviet Union, was insufficiently friendly towards Fidel Castro?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Perhaps the Cubans were as confused about Vietnamese politics as were the Americans. Throughout my brief time in South Vietnam, we Marines, enlisted man and officers alike, assumed to a man that we were fighting ill-trained, poorly armed peasants in support of the free and democratic government of South Vietnam. Wrong, wrong, and wrong! As far as I'm concerned, it was the wrong war in the wrong place and at the wrong time.
I was unaware, for example, that we were fighting anyone but the Viet Cong until my U.S. Marine Corps battalion had been in South Vietnam for 36 days. Our company level officers were apparently operating under the same delusion. On that day, we were told that we would be picked up by helicopters that afternoon and flown to a point inland, where we would take up blocking positions to prevent the northward movement of not the Viet Cong, but a North Vietnamese Army battalion.
On March 3, I had written a letter to my parents, telling them that my battalion would not likely be in combat again until we were rotated back to the States. Here's the cover, postmarked March 4:
Two days later, on March 5, my company, with my platoon on point, was ambushed by what we thought were Viet Cong, but may have been a battalion made up of both Viet Cong Main Force soldiers and soldiers of North Vietnam's People's Army of Viet Nam (PAVN), or a PAVN battalion operating without the VC. In moments we were fighting for our lives in what became the Battle for Hill 50, part of Operation Utah.
The official after-action report for the battle, signed by Col. J.R. Young, our battalion commander, mentions the PAVN just once, but refers repeatedly to "VC" actions, tactics, personnel, weapons, and KIA. However, the official history of the battle, US Marines in Vietnam: An Expanding War, 1966, one volume of the multi-volume official Marine Corps history, doesn’t mention the Viet Cong at all in its discussion of Operation Utah in chapter 7, titled "'They're Not Supermen,' Meeting the NVA in Operation Utah, March 1966â€.
So which record is correct? Given the "fog of war," I'm not sure it's possible to trust any historical record completely.
Bob
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I forgot to thank KHJ for the information about the Scott listings for Cuba. I guess I do need to get a new catalogue!
Bob
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Thank you, Kim. 
And, thank you, Bob for an interesting post.
Ted
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I understand from the dealer who sold this set of Cuba stamps to me that it was issued in 1964, in support of North Vietnam. I would like to learn what the date of issue was.
I hope to learn if it was issued after or before the Tonkin Gulf Incident of August 2-4, 1964, in which two American destroyers supposedly came under fire from North Vietnamese gunboats. President Johnson used the "attacks" — which even the American military admits never happened — as a pretext for requesting a congressional resolution, known as the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which on August 7 passed unanimously in the House and with only two dissenting votes in the Senate. The resolution gave him the power to wage war in Southeast Asia as he saw fit.
The Scott catalogue does not list any Cuban stamps issued after Feb. 7, 1962, when President Kennedy ordered an embargo on them and all other Cuban products. That embargo is still in place.
Bob
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re: Cuba issue date needed
Stampworld.com gives an issue date of 20 July.
http://www.stampworld.com/en/stamps/Cuba/Postage%20stamps/1899-2015?user=0&page=19
Ted
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re: Cuba issue date needed
Thank you, Ted! I was not aware of the stamp world.com web site. I think that will be very useful!
The July 20 issue date is interesting. Of course, the U.S. was already heavily involved in what was called the Second Vietnam War. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution just made that involvement "official," more or less. The U.S. never did declare war on North Vietnam.
Most Americans were scarcely aware of Vietnam or the war at that time, and that includes myself. I saw the news about the first attack in the Tonkin Gulf on Japanese television. I was visiting my girlfriend and her family; they didn't speak English, and the Japanese news was only in Japanese, but I could tell from the images that trouble was brewing for me personally. I was a U.S. Navy hospital corpsmen, and I realized that I would probably be seconded to the U.S. Marines, and that's exactly what happened a year later. As the words of the Johnny Wright song say, "Hello Vietnam!" I'm afraid that I wasn't quite as patriotic as the words indicate the singer was.
Bob
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Cuba issue date needed
Actually, the Scott catalog does now list modern Cuban stamps.
In the 2016 Scott catalog, your set is Cuba #846-849(20Jul1964) at $4.50 for mint.
My older Scott catalogs are in storage. But oldest one I have here that has the modern Cuban stamps listed/priced is 2007. I don't remember the exact year, but I'm think they started the modern Cuban listings only a couple of years before that.
Login to Like
this post
re: Cuba issue date needed
"... I'm afraid that I wasn't quite as patriotic as the words indicate the singer was ..."
Perhaps
I transited from 'Support Our Boys' rallies to 'the right war in the wrong place at the wrong time', myself, but I have never agreed that Love Of Country requires agreement with every, uh, foreign policy initiative.
The 3c & 13c themes are those of the NLF, and the 13c specifically cites "del Sur" ... I wonder who was saying what about whom. Perhaps Ho Chi Minh, mindful of the Soviet Union, was insufficiently friendly towards Fidel Castro?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: Cuba issue date needed
Perhaps the Cubans were as confused about Vietnamese politics as were the Americans. Throughout my brief time in South Vietnam, we Marines, enlisted man and officers alike, assumed to a man that we were fighting ill-trained, poorly armed peasants in support of the free and democratic government of South Vietnam. Wrong, wrong, and wrong! As far as I'm concerned, it was the wrong war in the wrong place and at the wrong time.
I was unaware, for example, that we were fighting anyone but the Viet Cong until my U.S. Marine Corps battalion had been in South Vietnam for 36 days. Our company level officers were apparently operating under the same delusion. On that day, we were told that we would be picked up by helicopters that afternoon and flown to a point inland, where we would take up blocking positions to prevent the northward movement of not the Viet Cong, but a North Vietnamese Army battalion.
On March 3, I had written a letter to my parents, telling them that my battalion would not likely be in combat again until we were rotated back to the States. Here's the cover, postmarked March 4:
Two days later, on March 5, my company, with my platoon on point, was ambushed by what we thought were Viet Cong, but may have been a battalion made up of both Viet Cong Main Force soldiers and soldiers of North Vietnam's People's Army of Viet Nam (PAVN), or a PAVN battalion operating without the VC. In moments we were fighting for our lives in what became the Battle for Hill 50, part of Operation Utah.
The official after-action report for the battle, signed by Col. J.R. Young, our battalion commander, mentions the PAVN just once, but refers repeatedly to "VC" actions, tactics, personnel, weapons, and KIA. However, the official history of the battle, US Marines in Vietnam: An Expanding War, 1966, one volume of the multi-volume official Marine Corps history, doesn’t mention the Viet Cong at all in its discussion of Operation Utah in chapter 7, titled "'They're Not Supermen,' Meeting the NVA in Operation Utah, March 1966â€.
So which record is correct? Given the "fog of war," I'm not sure it's possible to trust any historical record completely.
Bob
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re: Cuba issue date needed
I forgot to thank KHJ for the information about the Scott listings for Cuba. I guess I do need to get a new catalogue!
Bob
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re: Cuba issue date needed
Thank you, Kim.
And, thank you, Bob for an interesting post.
Ted
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