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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : International shipping — again

 

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keesindy
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04 May 2016
04:34:56pm
I haven't been shipping internationally for a while, but have received a request from Australia.

I've always used USPS services to mail stamps. USPS Priority Mail is expensive even if I were shipping stamps worth in excess of $100-200.

The other alternative is USPS First Class Package International service as long as the value is under $400. Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International service is included at no charge if I use the USPS Click-n-Ship service. I think that same confirmation service is available via PayPal if the buyer pays via PayPal. I've used PayPal many times to print domestic shipping labels, but not Click-n-Ship. Assuming I will have the option to use either, does it really matter which is used? Is Click-n-Ship more convenient or better than PayPal?

I've put PayPal shipping labels on 6" x 9" padded mailers, but I'm guessing those mailers aren't large enough for both the printed shipping form and the customs form. Correct? If that is the case, what are you using primarily to ship stamps internationally? What have you found that works best for international mailing? A larger padded mailer? A photo mailer?

In the past, I used registered mail occasionally for more expensive international shipments of stamps, but it's a major headache. Given all the changes to available USPS services in the past couple of years, is Registered Mail even worth considering now that online shipping labels are so common and delivery confirmation is more widely available for first class? Does it now make more sense just to use Priority Mail International rather than First Class International with Registered Mail?

It's difficult to keep up all of these options!

Tom

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michael78651
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05 May 2016
01:48:05am
re: International shipping — again

I find that most of the international shipments that I send and receive are via first class mail, and similar postal service from other countries. Sellers in countries like the Czech Republic and Bulgaria tend to use registered mail that the USPS scans in and you can track it once it reaches the USA. Sometimes the Czech Post scans in the package and you can track it arriving or leaving the Czech Republic.

If you write the address on the envelope (I mostly use 6" x 9"), towards the right side of the envelope, the small customs form will fit fine on the envelope. I have seen people attach the customs form on the back of the envelope and the USPS clerks have accepted that.

If I had a very large purchase, I would ship through USPS Global Priority. In most instances you will get some insurance coverage, and can buy additional coverage if needed.

I have never shipped registered on international mail. I think it just alerts the postal clerks, who are often private contractors, of items of value in the package.

Since 1978, I have shipped stamps to every continent, except Antarctica. The only losses that I have sustained were two shipments sent to USA addresses, and I believed those to have been fraud situations on the part of the buyer.

Likewise, I have bought stamps from sellers in every continent, except Antarctica and Africa. Three non-receipt instances were from sellers in the USA, and one was from Lebanon. The USA matters were fraudulent. The Lebanese one I do not know for sure what happened with that.

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keesindy
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05 May 2016
10:29:51am
re: International shipping — again

Thanks for your comments, Michael!

One thing I didn't consider when I wrote my earlier post was postage! I've been selling mostly things other than stamps in the past couple of years. No international shipping, and routinely using PayPal or eBay shipping labels. They're convenient! I have always used postage stamps (usually commemoratives) when mailing stamps I've sold. Unless I'm overlooking something, Registered Mail was (and still is) the only way to get tracking for mailing higher value stamps internationally and using postage stamps on a First Class envelope. That came in handy in two situations where items were delayed for a few weeks in Europe.

I don't know if I'll ever bother using Registered Mail again. It was a way to use some postage stamps on a First Class Mail envelope and get insurance and tracking for higher value sales, but it is inconvenient (especially when it comes to standing in line) and relatively expensive. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only way to get tracking with First Class if I use postage rather than a PayPal shipping label. Plus, I had clerks a couple of years ago refuse to register a business envelope and apply a Customs form because envelopes were to be used only for "letters." They were misinterpreting the regs of course and we later got that all sorted out.

With regard to the Customs form, I've always handed the forms to the clerks with the envelope and they placed it on the face of the envelope. I get the impression they wouldn't accept my placing it on the back of an envelope.

It looks like I have two basic choices.

1. Use postage and the Customs form on a 6 x 9 padded envelope with no tracking.

2. Use a larger envelope with space for both the Customs form and a PayPal (or Click-n-Ship) shipping label that includes online tracking.

I hate the idea of not using stamps when mailing philatelic items, but I'm leaning more towards convenience and security in my old(er) age. I'm growing accustomed to the added security associated with tracking that I get with online shipping labels regardless of the value of the items I'm mailing. If those shipping labels are as convenient for international shipping has they have been for my domestic shipping, I may want to rethink my self-imposed ban on shipping stamps outside the US.

I guess one question I still need to investigate is whether small parcels/padded envelopes under 13 ounces with a Customs form printed at PayPal must be presented to a clerk. If so, that would negate much of the convenience associated with the online shipping labels for international sales.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me with this, Michael!

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michael78651
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05 May 2016
12:01:41pm
re: International shipping — again

"1. Use postage and the Customs form on a 6 x 9 padded envelope with no tracking."



This, if shipped via first class mail (domestic or international), will be considered a parcel and tracking is automatically provided with that.

It sounds to me like you're using that large customs form? On most shipments, the smaller one will do, and fits fine on the front of a 6x9 envelope if you use stamps. The customs form has tracking, but my experience is that many USPS and other postal services outside the USA tend to not scan that in. However, make sure that the entry point post office scans in that customs label. If you buyer inquires as to non-receipt, the post office can look up the customs form. My experiences with that have shown the package usually to be stuck in US Customs surprisingly in either St. Louis or Chicago (for packages to, guess where? - Yep, Canada). My packages that have cleared the US through New York or San Francisco go out quickly.

I use postage stamps on almost all of my mailings. Almost all stamp sellers around the world whom I have received stamps from also use postage stamps or Frama labels.
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keesindy
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06 May 2016
01:46:54am
re: International shipping — again

Michael said:

"This, if shipped via first class mail (domestic or international), will be considered a parcel and tracking is automatically provided with that."


I've got to stop looking at the online Retail USPS Price Calculator! It has the following on the pop-up description for "First-Class Package International Service."

Tracking is not available.
Insurance and indemnity are not available.
Registered Mail is available as an added service to most destinations for an additional fee.


Update!

Trusting you more than I'd trust the USPS web site, I continued to search for the source of my confusion and just discovered a USPS business price calculator. It includes options I have never seen it before, but does include tracking and insurance options. However, it is for "Business Mailings entered through a BMEU, Postage Statement, eVS, etc." However, I'm guessing I don't qualify.

Then I found a second business price calculator specifically for "First-Class Package International Service." It seems to be for multi-piece shipments and includes separate sections for retail, commercial base and commercial plus, but none of those offer an insurance option and no mention of tracking on that page.

Still searching...................


I'm using the small Customs form. It's just that the PayPal and eBay shipping labels print on half of an 8½ x 11 sheet. Even if I trim off the excess paper around the label, it covers 80-90% of the 6 x 9 padded mailer. So, insufficient space remaining for the Customs form.


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michael78651
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06 May 2016
01:41:51pm
re: International shipping — again

You can probably scale down the size of the shipping label through your printer. However, I don't know how readable it will be. I think they have a test label to experiment with.

First Class Parcel is limited. The customs form is often the only tracking number you'll get. There are tons of stamps moving through regular (first class) international mail from dealers to collectors all around the world.

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keesindy
Members Picture


06 May 2016
08:18:43pm
re: International shipping — again

I hadn't thought about reducing the size of the labels. I can do that easily. Apparently, resizing doesn't affect the machine readers' ability to read the barcode and that black and white square coding thing.

I've been reading threads at eBay and I'm closing in on an understanding of the "First Class Package International" tracking. I found commenst referring to "tracking" from the US to International destinations being limited to "Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International" service nations. I found the list of those nations at the USPS site and then went back to the same USPS Postage Price Calculator I was already acquainted with. As I noted before, the pop-up window at that site (when you click on the "?" mark next to "First-Class Package International Serviceâ„¢") says that tracking and insurance/indemnity are not available for this service. However, at the bottom of that small pop-up window is this.

Online shipping convenience!

- You can print and pay for First-Class Package International Service shipping labels with postage from Click-N-Ship at USPS.com.
- Print your shipping labels with the appropriate customs declaration form all on one document.
- Request Free Package Pickup at USPS.com/pickup.
- Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International is available at no extra charge to select countries when using Click-N-Ship or other PC Postage providers. The delivery status of a shipment sent using Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International may be obtained online through Track and Confirm at USPS.com

Those in the eBay discussions (from earlier this year) who mentioned "tracking" must have been referring to this "Delivery Confirmation" option rather than actual tracking. When I go through the USPS calculator and get to the options page, there is the "Customs Forms and Extra Services" button. Clicking on that takes me to the Extra Services list and there are only three: Certificate of Mailing; Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International; and Registered Mail. The delivery confirmation isn't available at retail and is a free option online, but there is still a check box for the option for some reason.

So, my evolving (and still fuzzy) understanding is that international tracking has recently been replaced by the "Delivery Confirmation" option if I were to use the USPS "Click-n-Ship" online labels. I assume the same is true with the PayPal and eBay shipping labels, but haven't found a way to check that out.

All of the USPS changes in recent years have created confusion (for me at least). On top of that, they're often changing and/or creating new terminology, and they don't thoroughly clean up the web site to account for the changes. PayPal and eBay terminology isn't always the same as that used by USPS. Maybe they're just not keeping up with USPS changes. Regardless, it's unnecessarily sloppy!

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michael78651
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06 May 2016
10:00:45pm
re: International shipping — again

My son sells tons of "things" on eBay, and to all points in the world. He uses the eBay shipping labels. He hasn't had many problems shipping in that manner.

He ran across one buyer each from Israel and India who would file a non-receipt claim on the same day that he indicated the item was shipped. When eBay rightly disallowed those claims, the buyers then filed a refund claim direct to him saying that they never received the items. In one case, tracking showed that the item was delivered a couple of days before the refund request was filed on eBay. He worked with eBay on those two fraudsters, and they were booted off of eBay.

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keesindy
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22 May 2016
05:42:57pm
re: International shipping — again

I have no recent international shipping experience and can't seem to find a way to calculate at PayPal what the shipping cost to Australia would be using a PayPal shipping label for an international sale under the current USPS structure. I can get the basic "First Class Package International" rate from the USPS calculator, but insurance isn't available via USPS and I don't know if it is available when I prepare the PayPal shipping label. (I don't have, and have never had, an account with a third-party insurance provider.)

Also, I haven't been able to confirm that I get the "Delivery Confirmation International" service if I use PayPal to create the shipping label. It is available if I use the USPS Click-n-Ship online site to prepare the shipping label, but I haven't used that service in a long time after experiencing problems.

If someone happens to know:

1. Does the PayPal setup for an international shipping label for "First Class Package International" to Australia include an option for insurance?

2. Does the PayPal shipping label include the USPS "Delivery Confirmation International" service?

Thanks!

With that information in hand, I just need SG to get out of the way and let HipStamp conduct business. Then, I might actually do an international transaction for the first time in a couple of years.

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Author/Postings
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keesindy

04 May 2016
04:34:56pm

I haven't been shipping internationally for a while, but have received a request from Australia.

I've always used USPS services to mail stamps. USPS Priority Mail is expensive even if I were shipping stamps worth in excess of $100-200.

The other alternative is USPS First Class Package International service as long as the value is under $400. Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International service is included at no charge if I use the USPS Click-n-Ship service. I think that same confirmation service is available via PayPal if the buyer pays via PayPal. I've used PayPal many times to print domestic shipping labels, but not Click-n-Ship. Assuming I will have the option to use either, does it really matter which is used? Is Click-n-Ship more convenient or better than PayPal?

I've put PayPal shipping labels on 6" x 9" padded mailers, but I'm guessing those mailers aren't large enough for both the printed shipping form and the customs form. Correct? If that is the case, what are you using primarily to ship stamps internationally? What have you found that works best for international mailing? A larger padded mailer? A photo mailer?

In the past, I used registered mail occasionally for more expensive international shipments of stamps, but it's a major headache. Given all the changes to available USPS services in the past couple of years, is Registered Mail even worth considering now that online shipping labels are so common and delivery confirmation is more widely available for first class? Does it now make more sense just to use Priority Mail International rather than First Class International with Registered Mail?

It's difficult to keep up all of these options!

Tom

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michael78651

05 May 2016
01:48:05am

re: International shipping — again

I find that most of the international shipments that I send and receive are via first class mail, and similar postal service from other countries. Sellers in countries like the Czech Republic and Bulgaria tend to use registered mail that the USPS scans in and you can track it once it reaches the USA. Sometimes the Czech Post scans in the package and you can track it arriving or leaving the Czech Republic.

If you write the address on the envelope (I mostly use 6" x 9"), towards the right side of the envelope, the small customs form will fit fine on the envelope. I have seen people attach the customs form on the back of the envelope and the USPS clerks have accepted that.

If I had a very large purchase, I would ship through USPS Global Priority. In most instances you will get some insurance coverage, and can buy additional coverage if needed.

I have never shipped registered on international mail. I think it just alerts the postal clerks, who are often private contractors, of items of value in the package.

Since 1978, I have shipped stamps to every continent, except Antarctica. The only losses that I have sustained were two shipments sent to USA addresses, and I believed those to have been fraud situations on the part of the buyer.

Likewise, I have bought stamps from sellers in every continent, except Antarctica and Africa. Three non-receipt instances were from sellers in the USA, and one was from Lebanon. The USA matters were fraudulent. The Lebanese one I do not know for sure what happened with that.

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keesindy

05 May 2016
10:29:51am

re: International shipping — again

Thanks for your comments, Michael!

One thing I didn't consider when I wrote my earlier post was postage! I've been selling mostly things other than stamps in the past couple of years. No international shipping, and routinely using PayPal or eBay shipping labels. They're convenient! I have always used postage stamps (usually commemoratives) when mailing stamps I've sold. Unless I'm overlooking something, Registered Mail was (and still is) the only way to get tracking for mailing higher value stamps internationally and using postage stamps on a First Class envelope. That came in handy in two situations where items were delayed for a few weeks in Europe.

I don't know if I'll ever bother using Registered Mail again. It was a way to use some postage stamps on a First Class Mail envelope and get insurance and tracking for higher value sales, but it is inconvenient (especially when it comes to standing in line) and relatively expensive. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only way to get tracking with First Class if I use postage rather than a PayPal shipping label. Plus, I had clerks a couple of years ago refuse to register a business envelope and apply a Customs form because envelopes were to be used only for "letters." They were misinterpreting the regs of course and we later got that all sorted out.

With regard to the Customs form, I've always handed the forms to the clerks with the envelope and they placed it on the face of the envelope. I get the impression they wouldn't accept my placing it on the back of an envelope.

It looks like I have two basic choices.

1. Use postage and the Customs form on a 6 x 9 padded envelope with no tracking.

2. Use a larger envelope with space for both the Customs form and a PayPal (or Click-n-Ship) shipping label that includes online tracking.

I hate the idea of not using stamps when mailing philatelic items, but I'm leaning more towards convenience and security in my old(er) age. I'm growing accustomed to the added security associated with tracking that I get with online shipping labels regardless of the value of the items I'm mailing. If those shipping labels are as convenient for international shipping has they have been for my domestic shipping, I may want to rethink my self-imposed ban on shipping stamps outside the US.

I guess one question I still need to investigate is whether small parcels/padded envelopes under 13 ounces with a Customs form printed at PayPal must be presented to a clerk. If so, that would negate much of the convenience associated with the online shipping labels for international sales.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me with this, Michael!

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michael78651

05 May 2016
12:01:41pm

re: International shipping — again

"1. Use postage and the Customs form on a 6 x 9 padded envelope with no tracking."



This, if shipped via first class mail (domestic or international), will be considered a parcel and tracking is automatically provided with that.

It sounds to me like you're using that large customs form? On most shipments, the smaller one will do, and fits fine on the front of a 6x9 envelope if you use stamps. The customs form has tracking, but my experience is that many USPS and other postal services outside the USA tend to not scan that in. However, make sure that the entry point post office scans in that customs label. If you buyer inquires as to non-receipt, the post office can look up the customs form. My experiences with that have shown the package usually to be stuck in US Customs surprisingly in either St. Louis or Chicago (for packages to, guess where? - Yep, Canada). My packages that have cleared the US through New York or San Francisco go out quickly.

I use postage stamps on almost all of my mailings. Almost all stamp sellers around the world whom I have received stamps from also use postage stamps or Frama labels.
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keesindy

06 May 2016
01:46:54am

re: International shipping — again

Michael said:

"This, if shipped via first class mail (domestic or international), will be considered a parcel and tracking is automatically provided with that."


I've got to stop looking at the online Retail USPS Price Calculator! It has the following on the pop-up description for "First-Class Package International Service."

Tracking is not available.
Insurance and indemnity are not available.
Registered Mail is available as an added service to most destinations for an additional fee.


Update!

Trusting you more than I'd trust the USPS web site, I continued to search for the source of my confusion and just discovered a USPS business price calculator. It includes options I have never seen it before, but does include tracking and insurance options. However, it is for "Business Mailings entered through a BMEU, Postage Statement, eVS, etc." However, I'm guessing I don't qualify.

Then I found a second business price calculator specifically for "First-Class Package International Service." It seems to be for multi-piece shipments and includes separate sections for retail, commercial base and commercial plus, but none of those offer an insurance option and no mention of tracking on that page.

Still searching...................


I'm using the small Customs form. It's just that the PayPal and eBay shipping labels print on half of an 8½ x 11 sheet. Even if I trim off the excess paper around the label, it covers 80-90% of the 6 x 9 padded mailer. So, insufficient space remaining for the Customs form.


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michael78651

06 May 2016
01:41:51pm

re: International shipping — again

You can probably scale down the size of the shipping label through your printer. However, I don't know how readable it will be. I think they have a test label to experiment with.

First Class Parcel is limited. The customs form is often the only tracking number you'll get. There are tons of stamps moving through regular (first class) international mail from dealers to collectors all around the world.

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www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
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keesindy

06 May 2016
08:18:43pm

re: International shipping — again

I hadn't thought about reducing the size of the labels. I can do that easily. Apparently, resizing doesn't affect the machine readers' ability to read the barcode and that black and white square coding thing.

I've been reading threads at eBay and I'm closing in on an understanding of the "First Class Package International" tracking. I found commenst referring to "tracking" from the US to International destinations being limited to "Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International" service nations. I found the list of those nations at the USPS site and then went back to the same USPS Postage Price Calculator I was already acquainted with. As I noted before, the pop-up window at that site (when you click on the "?" mark next to "First-Class Package International Serviceâ„¢") says that tracking and insurance/indemnity are not available for this service. However, at the bottom of that small pop-up window is this.

Online shipping convenience!

- You can print and pay for First-Class Package International Service shipping labels with postage from Click-N-Ship at USPS.com.
- Print your shipping labels with the appropriate customs declaration form all on one document.
- Request Free Package Pickup at USPS.com/pickup.
- Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International is available at no extra charge to select countries when using Click-N-Ship or other PC Postage providers. The delivery status of a shipment sent using Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International may be obtained online through Track and Confirm at USPS.com

Those in the eBay discussions (from earlier this year) who mentioned "tracking" must have been referring to this "Delivery Confirmation" option rather than actual tracking. When I go through the USPS calculator and get to the options page, there is the "Customs Forms and Extra Services" button. Clicking on that takes me to the Extra Services list and there are only three: Certificate of Mailing; Electronic USPS Delivery Confirmation International; and Registered Mail. The delivery confirmation isn't available at retail and is a free option online, but there is still a check box for the option for some reason.

So, my evolving (and still fuzzy) understanding is that international tracking has recently been replaced by the "Delivery Confirmation" option if I were to use the USPS "Click-n-Ship" online labels. I assume the same is true with the PayPal and eBay shipping labels, but haven't found a way to check that out.

All of the USPS changes in recent years have created confusion (for me at least). On top of that, they're often changing and/or creating new terminology, and they don't thoroughly clean up the web site to account for the changes. PayPal and eBay terminology isn't always the same as that used by USPS. Maybe they're just not keeping up with USPS changes. Regardless, it's unnecessarily sloppy!

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this post

"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
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michael78651

06 May 2016
10:00:45pm

re: International shipping — again

My son sells tons of "things" on eBay, and to all points in the world. He uses the eBay shipping labels. He hasn't had many problems shipping in that manner.

He ran across one buyer each from Israel and India who would file a non-receipt claim on the same day that he indicated the item was shipped. When eBay rightly disallowed those claims, the buyers then filed a refund claim direct to him saying that they never received the items. In one case, tracking showed that the item was delivered a couple of days before the refund request was filed on eBay. He worked with eBay on those two fraudsters, and they were booted off of eBay.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
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keesindy

22 May 2016
05:42:57pm

re: International shipping — again

I have no recent international shipping experience and can't seem to find a way to calculate at PayPal what the shipping cost to Australia would be using a PayPal shipping label for an international sale under the current USPS structure. I can get the basic "First Class Package International" rate from the USPS calculator, but insurance isn't available via USPS and I don't know if it is available when I prepare the PayPal shipping label. (I don't have, and have never had, an account with a third-party insurance provider.)

Also, I haven't been able to confirm that I get the "Delivery Confirmation International" service if I use PayPal to create the shipping label. It is available if I use the USPS Click-n-Ship online site to prepare the shipping label, but I haven't used that service in a long time after experiencing problems.

If someone happens to know:

1. Does the PayPal setup for an international shipping label for "First Class Package International" to Australia include an option for insurance?

2. Does the PayPal shipping label include the USPS "Delivery Confirmation International" service?

Thanks!

With that information in hand, I just need SG to get out of the way and let HipStamp conduct business. Then, I might actually do an international transaction for the first time in a couple of years.

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