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Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
From what I have gleaned from a cursory InterTubes search, a Loose Ship cancel is equivalent to a Paquebot cancel, indicating written on a ship in international waters, thus calling out for postage of the nationality of the ship. Is that correct?
The stamp is a 1902 Tasmania pictorial. So, am I right in assuming the stamp was on a letter that was written on an Australian vessel? Or is there more to the picture?
Thanks for any clarification.
Eric
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I am not familiar with the "Loose Ship" marking, but it would not necessarily have to be an Australian ship.
Paquebot mail works as follows: Ships would use the postage stamps of their last port of call for all mailings until they reach a new port. Upon reaching the new port all of the mail with the previous port of call's stamps would be postmarked from the current port of call and then offloaded and new stamps from the current port of call loaded on.
It could have been any ship travelling through Tasmania.
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Good information smauggie, thank you.
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06:26:20pm
That "stamps of last port of call" is not the norm, but was commonly accepted.
Here is an except from a Linn's article on the subject:
Under UPU regulations, letters and cards posted at sea should be franked with postage stamps of the country under which the vessel is flagged. Such a franking must be in accordance with that country's postal rates and fees. If the vessel is in port when the postcard or letter is turned in, it is required to be franked with the stamps of the country in whose waters the vessel is located.
Although it is not so stated in the regulation, in practice stamps valid in the vessel's last port of call are usually accepted under the same terms and conditions.
Also, British stamps and stamps of British colonies were generally accepted interchangeably aboard all British and British colonial ships.
The cover shown in Figure 1 is franked with three St. Vincent 1¢ orange Queen Elizabeth II stamps (Scott 186). The letter, addressed to London, England, entered the mailstream in St. Lucia, as attested by the "G.P.O. Castries," St. Lucia postmark dated Jan. 14, 1959.
The vessel aboard which this letter was posted is Dutch. The St. Vincent stamps might indicate that the ship's last port of call was St. Vincent, or they might have been accepted on the principle of the interchangeability of British colonial stamps.
The article is here .
Roy
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This thread has cleared up some long-standing questions for me. I was not previously unaware of the franking rules for paquetbot mail. The cover shown below was posted Sept. 28, 1962 in Cobh, Ireland; it came from S.S. America, which had landed at Cobh en route from New York to Bremerhaven.
Here's a question: Since S.S. America was on a regular route, is it not possible, even likely, that the purser had Irish stamps available for use in the next port of call (Cobh) out of New York City?
According to the spring, 1984 edition of The Revealer, the journal of the Irish Philatelic Association, the slogan cancellation is Irish and was used in Cobh, Ireland as well as two other Irish cities, although it's unclear what the dates of use are:
Bob
P.S. I bought this cover from Roy several years ago. See William Saroyan Posts a Letter.
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08:16:10pm
I believe this likely follows the UPU rule quoted in the Linn's article:
"If the vessel is in port when the postcard or letter is turned in, it is required to be franked with the stamps of the country in whose waters the vessel is located."
Roy
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And today we simply email!
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Roy, thank you for that outstanding information. And Bob, appreciate your link to your story on Saroyan. One never knows where these threads lead. Good stuff.
Cheers,
Eric
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Here is a link to a site that refers to the "loose ship" cancel. About half way down page.
http://www.shipsonstamps.org/Topics/html/paquebot.htm
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Just a little extra, a "Loose letter" is a letter that arrives at an office of delivery without any indication of office of origin.
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From what I have gleaned from a cursory InterTubes search, a Loose Ship cancel is equivalent to a Paquebot cancel, indicating written on a ship in international waters, thus calling out for postage of the nationality of the ship. Is that correct?
The stamp is a 1902 Tasmania pictorial. So, am I right in assuming the stamp was on a letter that was written on an Australian vessel? Or is there more to the picture?
Thanks for any clarification.
Eric
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re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
I am not familiar with the "Loose Ship" marking, but it would not necessarily have to be an Australian ship.
Paquebot mail works as follows: Ships would use the postage stamps of their last port of call for all mailings until they reach a new port. Upon reaching the new port all of the mail with the previous port of call's stamps would be postmarked from the current port of call and then offloaded and new stamps from the current port of call loaded on.
It could have been any ship travelling through Tasmania.
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re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
Good information smauggie, thank you.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 300 categories
15 Jun 2016
06:26:20pm
re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
That "stamps of last port of call" is not the norm, but was commonly accepted.
Here is an except from a Linn's article on the subject:
Under UPU regulations, letters and cards posted at sea should be franked with postage stamps of the country under which the vessel is flagged. Such a franking must be in accordance with that country's postal rates and fees. If the vessel is in port when the postcard or letter is turned in, it is required to be franked with the stamps of the country in whose waters the vessel is located.
Although it is not so stated in the regulation, in practice stamps valid in the vessel's last port of call are usually accepted under the same terms and conditions.
Also, British stamps and stamps of British colonies were generally accepted interchangeably aboard all British and British colonial ships.
The cover shown in Figure 1 is franked with three St. Vincent 1¢ orange Queen Elizabeth II stamps (Scott 186). The letter, addressed to London, England, entered the mailstream in St. Lucia, as attested by the "G.P.O. Castries," St. Lucia postmark dated Jan. 14, 1959.
The vessel aboard which this letter was posted is Dutch. The St. Vincent stamps might indicate that the ship's last port of call was St. Vincent, or they might have been accepted on the principle of the interchangeability of British colonial stamps.
The article is here .
Roy
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re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
This thread has cleared up some long-standing questions for me. I was not previously unaware of the franking rules for paquetbot mail. The cover shown below was posted Sept. 28, 1962 in Cobh, Ireland; it came from S.S. America, which had landed at Cobh en route from New York to Bremerhaven.
Here's a question: Since S.S. America was on a regular route, is it not possible, even likely, that the purser had Irish stamps available for use in the next port of call (Cobh) out of New York City?
According to the spring, 1984 edition of The Revealer, the journal of the Irish Philatelic Association, the slogan cancellation is Irish and was used in Cobh, Ireland as well as two other Irish cities, although it's unclear what the dates of use are:
Bob
P.S. I bought this cover from Roy several years ago. See William Saroyan Posts a Letter.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 300 categories
15 Jun 2016
08:16:10pm
re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
I believe this likely follows the UPU rule quoted in the Linn's article:
"If the vessel is in port when the postcard or letter is turned in, it is required to be franked with the stamps of the country in whose waters the vessel is located."
Roy
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re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
And today we simply email!
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re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
Roy, thank you for that outstanding information. And Bob, appreciate your link to your story on Saroyan. One never knows where these threads lead. Good stuff.
Cheers,
Eric
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re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
Here is a link to a site that refers to the "loose ship" cancel. About half way down page.
http://www.shipsonstamps.org/Topics/html/paquebot.htm
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re: Loose Ship Cancellation on Tasmania Stamp
Just a little extra, a "Loose letter" is a letter that arrives at an office of delivery without any indication of office of origin.
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