Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I regularly buy cheap covers for my New Jersey postmark collection. 99% of these are purchased for the opening bid with no bidding competition, using esnipe to deliver a bid 6 seconds before the auction closes.
There is a theory that bids attract other bids. The fact that when someone sees that someone else wants an item, suddenly they want it too. I decided to go through my usual evening search and bid directly onto eBay instead of sniping. Here's the results.
Note that every friggin auction I bid on visibly got counter bids!
And here's one where I wasn't having it! It already had a bid on it when I found it. You can see the cheapskate had bid $1.12 and I became high bidder at $2.00. Then he went back fishing and bid $2.00 and was told he wasn't high bidder since he only matched my bid. So he outbid me at $3.00.
Now if I had continued to bid, he would've continued to bid and we'd have a bidding war on this simple cover. So I let him think he chased me off. But what he didn't know was I set up a snipe bid, and with six seconds to go I outbid him. Here you can see how the snipe software saved me money.
Most of the time when I use the snipe software to bid, I seldom have competition.
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Hi BenFranklin1902;
Have you ever considered that eBay itself is using shill bidding to make sure you do not get a bargain?
If big corporations will cheat to save money even when they know they are poisoning the well (PG&E hexavalent chromium 1993), what makes you think that any large corporate entity can be trusted to be honest. The PG&E thing is but one of hundreds of incidents of massive pollution by corporations. Right here in Michigan, is one just a few counties from where I live. It is in White Lake, and is a EPA superfund site, that is the result of Hooker Chemical. It was so bad that it resulted in a Frontline documentary. 
If a legal clerk (Erin Brockovich) without any formal education can uncover such a huge public health threat, by a big corporation then there must be many that are harder to uncover lurking everywhere. The larger that corporations become, the harder it is to keep them honest, or to detect evil doing. 
That is an interesting experiment that you did, and thanks for sharing. For the benefit of other members, share some more info on this sniping. How much does it cost? Are the fees charged per item sniped or are they like a monthly charge? Would members benefit if they are only occasional buyers, or is it only useful for frequent buyers? 
Just thinkin' again....
TuskenRaider
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"Have you ever considered that eBay itself is using shill bidding to make sure you do not get a bargain?"
No.
Tad
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"Have you ever considered that eBay itself is using shill bidding to make sure you do not get a bargain?"
You mean like on Ashley Madison where the alleged frisky housewives were all just part of the software?
In this case I don't think eBay is doing that. They are trying to get away from the auction model to have big vendors at fixed pricing. Plus the stuff I bid on is small potatoes, not worth the manipulation.
Sniping is for anyone who wants to buy at auction on eBay. And the sniping services allow you to place your bids, and change or retract them anytime before the actual auction ending. The cost is minimal.
Go to esnipe.com and you can get a free trial. It's all done on their site so there is no app to load onto your computer or anything. The setup is easy. You provide them with your eBay account info and log in password. You tell them how long prior to the auction end you want your bid placed.
To bid, you simply copy and paste the eBay auction number into their page and the auction title etc appear. You set your bid price and hit enter. That confirms your bid and brings you to a page that tells you your activity.
There is a check up about an hour before auction end. They will email you if your bid is now under the current high bid so you can modify it if you choose. Otherwise they won't bid since it's fruitless.
Then you get an email with the results of the auction when it ends.
Cost wise, they sell you "points" that are only charged when you are successful. The points charged vary by ending bid. Most of my purchases are low cost and the fee is about a quarter. I buy $10 worth of points at a time, and that lasts me about a year. It doesn't matter how often you bid, it's worthwhile.
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ebay is making plenty of money without needing to risk losing it all by resorting to fraud. You are being too paranoid.
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And it's not just the fraud aspect; who is going to pay for the items on which ebay allegedly shill-bids, but which don't attract any higher bids? Ebay certainly is not.
Ted
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I agree that some bidders are encouraged by other biddings. You can see them keep coming back with a new bid after being outbid.
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"... some bidders are encouraged by other biddings ..."
We are all price-takers. All the time, and on every thing.
Every bid is based on what other people paid for similar items and that, in turn, is based on what the item was worth to them, not us.
It is entirely natural & correct to tell yourself that the highest current bid is the 'going rate' or 'market-clearing price', and to decide to pay the increment to own the item.
The problem, of course, is that this logic never exhausts itself.
When prices climb, I find it useful to remind myself that, as much as I crave any single item, there are zillions of other things that I would like to buy & own ... for the same money ... and for which I will not need to outbid an over-motivated competitor.
I agree that sniping is a good way to avoid attracting other bidders, but I insist that the max price we set is informed by the market.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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09:15:37pm
I too use esnipe - I did a similar comparison before on several QV stamps. One I did by bidding and one I did by esnipe. The one I bid on went much higher than it should have and the one I used esnipe on went for much lower. I had a 3 second esnipe bid and within the last 10 seconds there were quite a few extra bids but since the stamp bid was lower (despite a bidding war in the last few hours), the bids were lower. I had mine set for my max and it came out significantly lower than if I had manually bid.
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"ebay is making plenty of money without needing to risk losing it all by resorting to fraud. You are being too paranoid."
If that is the case, why did eBay petition the Canadian government to end the labour disputes between Canada Post and its labour union, CUPW (Canadain Union of Postal Workers)? Simple; with the threat of mail disruption, very few people were buying off eBay, and eBay was losing money and market share.
David
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" but I insist that the max price we set is informed by the market.
"
I agree in general but it is also about timing since some people will pay more because they want it and not in regards to market. This is why some price things higher because they are waiting for the one person who either does not realize they could get it cheaper by waiting or wants it right now..or makes a mistake (like I recently did).
I just wonder who is buying all those common plate block lots when if you wait you can often get them anywhere from below face to face. Is it collectors or someone trying to sell them individually later?
Al
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"If that is the case, why did eBay petition the Canadian government to end the labour disputes between Canada Post and its labour union"
That has nothing to do with shill bidding.
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I started buying off Ebay their second year online. It was a wonderful venue! People were selling collectibles left and right and the buyers market hadn't caught up with it yet. Now it's become a dog eat dog world, with competition coming from every direction. Volume still allows for the occasional find, but it pales in comparison to those first 3 or 4 years.
It was similar back in the late 70's and early 80's with estate auctions. Man, there was some killer deals to be had. But then the internet made advertising upcoming auctions worldwide a possibility and the dealers and such came out of the woodwork. Now anything collectible from estate sales is pretty much out of reach to the average collector.
As to snipe bidding, I've come to see it as just part of the game. It's always tempting to try and deliver a knockout blow to that jerk that dares try to outbid you.
WB
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"... I just wonder who is buying all those common plate block lots ..."
I put it down to money-laundering, but that's me.
"... Now anything collectible from estate sales is pretty much out of reach to the average collector ..."
When estate sales are frequented by dealers - who cannot pay a price higher than that at which they will sell to a collector, and at a profit - collectors do fine.
When estate sales are frequented by collectors, you might as well go home ... unless there is something that you cannot live without, in which case you will wish that you had just gone home.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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"I just wonder who is buying all those common plate block lots when if you wait you can often get them anywhere from below face to face. Is it collectors or someone trying to sell them individually later?"
I see that too. There will be a lot "50 mixed 4 cent commemorative plate blocks" and two dopes are battling it out around $22 for $8 face value of stamps.
I have bought a bunch of large lots, recently $100 worth of postage for $60 and was surprised that it was all commemorative plate blocks from the 1950s to the ten cent era. Maybe I need to run that auction!
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I see ebay as a facilitator.
The question is whether collectors would be better off without it? And I think the answer is "no". From my perspective as a buyer, I am happy enough with the prices I pay.
There are two safeguards to "biying unseen"....the approval rating of the vendor and in most cases buyers know what they are buying is the real deal.
I dont think Id ever be tempted to buy a "variety" such as colour change or ever pay more than (say) £30 for something I have not seen and I dont think Id purchase anything from outside Britain or Ireland.
Sniping? Well I am "old school" and I tend to put in my offer in the last thirty seconds (although I have a preference for a fixed price purchase) so I suppose thats a wild shot in the dark rather than targetted marksmanship.
There is I think a form of reverse sniping (which is a bad metaphor as it sounds like a form of suicide) but I am pretty sure that some vendors intervene and bid themselves (or thru a third party) if they feel an item is going too cheaply.
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Ikey, your point is well taken and may very well be true in the area you live in. But, in the rural America where I live, dealers DO come from the big cities and ARE able to bid higher and return to their stores, where antiques and collectables command higher prices. Most become aware of the auctions through the advertising over the internet. Back in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's, the majority of the competition came from a 50 mile radius of the sale.
I concede that even back then, if there was an advanced collector in the area, then competition was stiff, but still, much less likely.
WB
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Years ago I would buy stamps on e-bay as I could find what I needed to fill my blank spots at a good price. I didn't have a lot of money, but still wanted to collect. I would bid a lot in the last few seconds on stamps that hadn't been bid at all.
One day I saw a comment about my snipping a great stamp. Made me feel guilty and I didn't do a lot of buying after that. Probably bought too many stamps at a high price from a dealer. Anyway, I stopped buying and selling on e-bay because of the fees by e-bay that I could no longer afford.
Many times I would buy lots and use the duplicates for trading. Much cheaper than buying individual.
I do think estate sales at reduced prices may be lowering the value of our stamps that we have collected for years.
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There is nothing wrong with sniping on eBay. In fact I subscribe to a sniping service that allows me to post my maximum bids with their site anytime and they deliver a flawless 6 second snipe every time. Even then I only win when nobody else bids higher.
The dealer put it out there at a low starting bid to generate interest. They took a calculated risk and sometimes they win and sometimes they lose. No guilt in winning those. It was offered to you and you accepted.
Back in the days when I sold car memorabilia on eBay, I started all my auctions at $2.99 each. Some of them would sell for starting bid. Some would go much higher. My average sale turned out to be $11.50 which was worthwhile for me. So I never focused on the losers, I just focused that every one I shipped was worth $11.50 to me.
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Here's another example of sniping... how I lost on a lot yesterday. That's me in the middle. There were no bids on the item at all until the last seven seconds of the auction. I'll bet everyone was using sniping software! It's not just on expensive items as you can see here.
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I don't use sniping services, but I do snipe manually, on occasion, and I can get my bid in within the last 3 seconds.
Despite what naysayers have said about the practice, I know one very good reason why it could be advantageous (though, it is not possible to say how often, if ever, this reasoning worked), and that is the fact that some currently-high bidders will lose track of the time, and not realize the auction is closing soon. This can happen even though you get an "auction closing soon" notification, about 14 minutes before the close. I know, because it has happened to me more times than I care to remember.
If you bid and become the new current high bidder, ebay messages the former high bidder informing him he has been outbid. Sniping within the last few seconds leaves him no time to even read that notification, much less react to it.
Ted
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I always snipe by setting the maximum price I'm willing to pay, then let things take their course. All emotion is taken out of the bidding process and I don't have to sit by my computer or mobile device waiting for the auction to end (sometimes wee hours of the morning).
I use a free sniping service called Gixen. It has been completely reliable.
-Les
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12:10:14am
When I've used auctions instead of BIN I too use sniping. I totally forgot about sniping when I went back to looking at some stamps that I really wanted and ended up paying more than I originally planned. Then I went back to sniping - set mine to 3 or 4 seconds. There were some lots that I really wanted and lost by only a few dollars or even 50c which I'd kick myself over. If I use an auction I always use the sniping and make sure that the amount I set is no more than 45% of CV but there are hard to get German occupation stamps that I have tried to get over the years. I once won 3 lots from one fellow and needed the 4th lot to complete the one area I needed and lost it by about $5 even though I set it for about 75% of CV - but at the same time no doubt the person who won lot 4 was probably ticked off that I grabbed the other 3 lots. It was a chance you have to take. Never feel bad about sniping if it's something you really want or need for your collection. Even with using sniping you'll either win or lose. It's a gamble we all take when it's a lot we really want.
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ESniping sounds like a great way to ensure that you win ... unless there's more then one eSniper! EBay's sellers must be delighted with the concept, because it's possible that there might be a bidding war. I make my early bid at my maximum and let it go at that. Either I win, or it sells for more then I'm willing to pay ... just as two eSnipers will find.
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Am I mistaken or are sniping services violating eBay policy and can get a bidder tossed off eBay for 30 days or banned outright for using a paid sniping service versus taking one's chances manually one by one with items bid on at the lowest possible remaining second in the auction?
Bruce
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If it is against policy, they don't do much about enforcing it. It's been going on for the better part of 10 years and I don't recall ever hearing about someone being suspended for it.
-Allen
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I use esnipe, have been since it was started and was free. I am grandfathered in so I don't have to pay a fee to esnipe for bids below $25.00, which a lot of my bids are. If my bid turns out that I am the highest I win, really simple idea. be the highest bidder and you win the auction. I don't need to let everyone know what my max is. Esnipe lets me place a bid and forget about it until the end of the auction. Ebay is an international selling platform so auctions can end on any day or any time, I don't have the time to sit and wait for every auction I am interested in to come up. Then there is the chance my computer is running slow or I am busy doing other things.
The same principle applies to live auctions, I use an agent and they know my max and bid for me when I am not available to bid in person. I don't get into bidding wars, just a waste of time and money.
Vince
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Hi Bruce,
There is nothing in the eBay user agreement about sniping, automated or otherwise,
I nearly always use an automated sniping service when bidding on auction item.
Why risk running up the price when you don't have to?
Why rely on manual sniping?
You can save your maximum bid in good time well before the auction closes and then see later what has happened.
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Vinman said: Esnipe lets me place a bid and forget about it until the end of the auction.
EBay does the same thing, and no one knows your maximum bid.
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Sniping is allowed on eBay and on most online auction services.
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"EBay does the same thing, and no one knows your maximum bid."
This is true but your bid above the current bid is always shown, therefore you start the bidding war.
If your maximum bid was hidden, as in sniping, until the last second then it would then be the same thing.
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on ebay, bidders can run up the bids to your max bid and past it. Using esnipe, no one will know until the last minute what your max bid was and if your bid wins the lot, they still won't know. That is the advantage of esnipe.
Tad
Added: Just have to think and type faster! Our SOR members are so fast with comments and answers. Love it!
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Tad, think you worded it better, maybe I should let my brain cell have more time.
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Sheepshanks said: This is true but your bid above the current bid is always shown, therefore you start the bidding war.
If your maximum bid was hidden, as in sniping, until the last second then it would then be the same thing.
Very seldom do I get to my maximum bid. If I'm starting a bidding war, and my max does get beat, I'm done. I walk away, with no further interest in that item ... unless I get beat by less then a full increment.
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Anglophile said: ... because no one knows you are in the auction, so other sniping bidders have no basis from which to pick their maximums ...
A max bid should not be based upon someone else's bid, but the most you am willing to pay. I think anything else would be foolhardy.
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carlbery,
I agree with you but in the world of ebay that is not the way people bid. People let their emotions take over and a bidding war starts. That is the way ebay and brick and mortar auctions work. They count on your emotions to help get the highest price for their goods
When I first started bidding on ebay it was possible to know who you were bidding against and some bidders would search out items you were bidding on and then bid against you. It took me awhile to learn that so I was doing the work for other bidders (my competition).
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I'm not sure why there is a misunderstanding concerning snipe bids. In theory, if one is perfectly satisfied to win each lot at the maximum bid amount, with no regrets, then there is no need to set up a snipe bid at all.
We can probably do a statistical analysis of ebay max bids vs esnipe max bids. Using a sniping system will end up saving some money, if not much in the long run, assuming that this is important.
Tad
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"... I use a free sniping service called Gixen ..."
"If the product is free, then you are the product."
Q/ So they sustain themselves by selling anonymous and/or aggregated data?
Q/ Or, their backers are willing to enjoy zero revenue to build market share with a customer base that is paying them nothing?
Q/ Or ...
Q/ Are the paid services also selling anonymous and/or aggregated data?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Tad, you said
"In theory, if one is perfectly satisfied to win each lot at the maximum bid amount, with no regrets, then there is no need to set up a snipe bid at all."
In theory I am satisfied to win at my max bid but I prefer to win at a lower price. Sniping and an auction agent help me to do that.
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 210 5 Fancy Cancel #1735 Info Won! $4.25 302141417967 $7.89 12/01/2016 18:56:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 210 5 Fancy Cancel #1737 Info Won! $6.38 371791943489 $7.89 12/01/2016 18:54:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 210 Open Maltese Cross Fancy Cancel #1739 Info Won! $3.13 371791943400 $7.89 12/01/2016 18:52:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special 3c Green Negative P in Circle Fancy Cancel #1703 Info Outbid 302141393280 $5.89 12/01/2016 18:11:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special 3c Green S Fancy Cancel #1707 Info Won! $6.50 371791913963 $7.89 12/01/2016 18:07:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special 3c Green Fancy Cancel #1721 Info Won! $1.25 302141392244 $6.89 12/01/2016 17:53:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel General Catalog of Postmarks of the United States 1946 Edition Info Won! $3.26 302140426168 $7.89 12/01/2016 17:13:56 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 W Fancy Cancel #1610 Info Won! $5.50 302139555572 $12.89 11/30/2016 18:55:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1618 Info Won! $3.00 302139555209 $13.89 11/30/2016 18:47:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1625 Info Won! $5.50 302139554788 $8.89 11/30/2016 18:40:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1630 Info Won! $1.76 371790416908 $8.89 11/30/2016 18:35:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Paid in Circle Fancy Cancel #1631 Info Won! $5.51 371790416877 $12.89 11/30/2016 18:34:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1635 Info Won! $9.50 302139554352 $12.89 11/30/2016 18:30:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1636 Info Won! $12.50 302139554299 $12.89 11/30/2016 18:29:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1642 Info Won! $10.50 302139554075 $13.89 11/30/2016 18:23:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Paid Fancy Cancel #1645 Info Won! $3.85 302139553966 $16.89 11/30/2016 18:20:29
Here is a list of 16 recent bids and the results from those auctions. Out of the sixteen auctions I lost one. When I do lose an auction it is usually by one increment over my highest bid and often by another snipe bid. I have no regrets overlosing an auction, if I really want want an item I bid accordingly but also have lost some of those auctions. I try to be sensible with my bidding.
When I use an agent for brick and mortar auctions they will not take an "get it at any price" bid. I do give them the option of raising my bid by several increments if needed.
Vince
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Vincent said: In theory I am satisfied to win at my max bid but I prefer to win at a lower price. Sniping and an auction agent help me to do that.
I never win at my max. Either I'm outbid, or I get it at one increment higher then someone's lower bid ... just as Esnipe does. I can't see how you save money.
Vincent, please don't think that I'm picking on you. It's just that I'm a feisty old man who likes to argue! LOL
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Carl,
You will understand the benefit of sniping once you've been nibbled to death. I placed a bid for US 573 MH (with a CV of $110 back then) and placed my bid for $85 knowing that they typically went for a max of 75% of CV. I had to place the bid several hours before the auction ended because I would be away from home (back before iPhones). When I came back, I had lost by one bid increment. There was a lot of activity with an hour to go and the price was run up to about $50, as I would expect. Then everyone dropped out except one guy with a low number of auctions won or sold. He bid $55 and was automatically outbid by me. 5 minutes later he bid $60. (Outbid) A while later $65. Each time he would take a while to make the next bid, but every time he felt more confident that the stamp was worth more money. Eventually he outbid me, and of course everyone else had long ago dropped out.
I am certain that had I snipered that auction, I would have won for significantly less than $85, maybe as little as $56. Of course, there could have been another sniper out there, but I'm not losing to "that guy" ever again.
Put another way, sniping eliminates the opportunity for an unknowledgeable buyer to leverage off of your expertise on what the real worth of the stamp is. I want them to remain uncertain until it's too late.
Lars
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OK, Lars, I can see your point.
I don't usually have much success in bidding, since I'm looking to resell and therefore need to really keep my maximum bid fairly low ... about 10% of catalog.
I'm certainly going to have to re-evaluate my distaste for Esniping.
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"I don't usually have much success in bidding, since I'm looking to resell and therefore need to really keep my maximum bid fairly low"
All the more reason to snipe! However, when I am in bottom-feeder mode, I will place an opening bid at the minimum if there aren't any other bids, just to let other bottom-feeders know they aren't alone. (On a 99c opening I will bid $1.04 just so if another bidder comes along and bids minimum they will lose to me on a tie. What they do next tells me a lot about their expertise).
If there is already a bid for the minimum (e.g. 99c), I don't bid at all before the snipe. No reason to let the first bidder know there is another interested party. Then, when I snipe, I snipe for the precise amount I am willing to pay for that item. If you were willing to pay a penny more, you should have bid a penny higher. In essence, I am willfully changing the eBay "auction" process into a more favorable (to me) "sealed bid" process. Many successful buyers are doing just that.
Of course, if you are in bottom-feeder mode (buying for resale), just one retail buyer will spoil your efforts, but if there is no retail interest you should do better. Some of my best buys are when I buy something for my collection for one bid increment higher than the highest wholesale buyer. Of course if there aren't even any wholesalers bidding, that's a nice day!
Lars
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Lars, I have actually lost and won bids by a penny!
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It's a lot more fun to win one by a penny than lose one by a penny, eh?
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So what is everyone's favorite sniping software...free would be first choice.
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I have been using esnipe and have had no problems. I can't comment on other sniping services because esnipe is the only one I ever used. I don't have the need to try other services.
Vince
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Message from EBay: Item #282289510089 Instant payment received from ...
Instant payment only took two-and-half days!
Don't know if my Dollar/Real conversion rate email to the customer helped.
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I use ezsniper.com. I like being able to choose from 3 different plans (fixed percentage, fixed price, or unlimited wins). I suspect other services are comparable. I've been happy with my service and haven't bothered to shop around for several years.
Lars
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"Lars, I have actually lost and won bids by a penny!"
When you lose by a penny, it does not necessarily mean you would have won, had you bid a penny or two higher than you did. It just means your bid was not a standard incremental amount. If you had a proxy max bid in of, say, $11.49, and someone else came along and put in a max bid of $18.00, the proxy system would only increase your existing high proxy bid up to the next standard increment, $11.50.
Ted
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With the knowledge that sniping is legal on eBay, I read here about a snipe service (free) from a post by Les and went there. I note that the site requires that you login with your eBay name and password.
That seems odd to me: Giving up my password.
Is that normal for snipe sites to require your eBay login info?
Bruce
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Without your login info, the snipe services could not make any bids for you.
On ebay if you bid 11.49, and someone bids 18.00, the bid would be 11.99, a 50c bid increase. If someone bids 11.50 the bid will be refused.
If someone had already bid 11.50 and you bid 11.49 at the last second, you will lose the lot by 1 cent.
Now that I'm confused, I will leave.
Tad
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"That seems odd to me: Giving up my password.
Is that normal for snipe sites to require your eBay login info?"
They need your eBay user name and password to be able to bid on your behalf. Quite normal, in fact the only way!
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Yes, I just had the classic "doh" moment--of course they need the username and apparently the password but that still seems odd to me. One must put a lot of trust out there with these services.
With all the file snooping and cyber theft we witness in the news, it seems like giving up your password to a middle party may eventually lead to, at the very least, mischievous hijinx brought about by cyber theft.
I think I will pass on sniping.
Bruce
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"With all the file snooping and cyber theft we witness in the news, it seems like giving up your password to a middle party may eventually lead to, at the very least, mischievous hijinx brought about by cyber theft.
I think I will pass on sniping."
If you have concerns just make sure that you use a unique password for eBay.
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I prefer the thrill of the hunt and do my own sniping.
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One important way to protect yourself when working with a sniping service is to make sure that there are *zero* payment methods linked to your eBay account.
That way, even if those dolts get hacked, whoever accesses your eBay account will not be able to buy anything at your cash expense.
One of the important advantages of PayPal, in general, is that your credit card details do not remain on vendor servers.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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"I prefer the thrill of the hunt and do my own sniping."
I do the same where possible. I have set up snipes with my service and cancelled them when I realized I would be in front of a computer screen when the auction closed. Even if it's only for a few bucks, and it only saves me a few pennies in snipe fees, I like a manual snipe.
But many times a manual snipe is not feasible for me, so I depend on my sniper service.
Lars
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I must be missing something (my wife agrees on a daily basis). If you know what your top bid is (the most you will give for the item at auction) why do you need a sniping service and how does it save you money? For example, if I see something of interest and I come to the determination that $30.00 is the most I'll give, I bid $30.00 whether there's 10 minutes or 10 days left on the auction. If I'm outbid by end of auction so be it. If I win I'll win at the last increment of bidding whether it is the full $30.00 or $27.50 or whatever. What am I missing?
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Hi Stokesville, Maybe you could have bought the items for less than your maximum if other bidders are not able to run up your maximum visually. Some do this to make you spend more on an item especially if they know there is a similar item also available.
Here are a number of my recent Snipes showing actual cost and my maximum.
Bid Amount Max Bid
Won! $9.06 $12.90
Won! $3.81 $6.80
Won! $8.30 $13.90
Won! $13.00 $13.90
Bid too low $7.90
Won! $13.06 $32.90
Won! EUR 5.38 EUR 12.90
Won! $16.27 $44.90
Won! $8.71 $10.60
Won! $5.50 $15.60
Won! $8.00 $36.01
Won! $5.50 $10.05
Won! $11.50 $23.95
Won! $4.26 $7.90
Won! $4.25 $11.90
I try to not add items to my watch list as to not give away my interest. Quite often, if there are only one or two bidders they get lulled into a false sense of winning and therefore the winning bid can be just a few cents over the last bid.
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Hi Sheepshanks. I must admit your success rate on those auctions and the percentage off of your high bid are impressive. Were you suggesting that other bidders can see my maximum bid? Or are they taking a stab in the dark trying to raise the price.
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"... I must be missing something ... why do you need a sniping service and how does it save you money? ..."
People are price-takers.
You may 'know' your maximum bid, but that bid is still based on what other people paid, in the past, for that same item.
And the same goes for their maximum bids.
=== without sniping
So, let's say that there is one bidder, and s/he bids U$D 5.
You bid U$D 6.
You just proved to the first bidder 1) that the item is 'worth' U$D 6 and, for one increment above U$D 6, it can be theirs.
So, they bid U$D 7.
If you had entered your max bid of U$D 12 into an auto-incrementing system, that system would now auto-bid you at U$D 8.
But the same logic applies: the item is obviously 'worth' U$D 8 and, for only one increment more than your bid, s/he can win the item, so s/he bids U$D 9.
Like the king said: etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
All because we are price-takers, and take our cues (and that means all of our social cues) from one another.
=== with sniping
If you had sniped your U$D 12 max bid, the visible bidding would still stand at U$D 5, and you would be in position to win at U$D 6 ... at the end, when it really matters.
Hope that helps,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Stokesville, no they cannot see your maximum bid, only your last bid but a bit like storage wars some like to run up a bidder and consider it fun. It also leaves you open to shill bids.
I find that if I put in any bid it alerts another bidder to my interest, whereas if I snipe they have no idea that I, or someone else, has an interest until the auction is won.
The Sniping does not even use the same bidder code for each of my final bids. Sometimes if I look at the final, winning, bid I'm not even sure It's me until I get the Ebay email or check on my sniping account.
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Thank you Sheepshanks and Ikey Pikey- I guess I'm naive and didn't see it happening that way!
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stokesville,
The simple explanation is this:
Using sniper bids you can change the format from auction to sealed bid.
That is to your advantage if you are a knowledgeable bidder.
That prevents a price run-up by a rookie bidder and devious bids by shill bidders.
Lars
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Lars,
That is the best explanation I heard for sniping. Very simple and easy to comprehend. I always use my sniping service, well worth the fee. I just set it and forget it.
Vince
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I think I got taken a few weeks ago. A seller had some NJ postmark covers with a 99 cent starting bid. There were six of them. I figured no one else would want them so I bid directly on eBay, and put in a $2 bid on each.
What do I get? A single bidder went and bid against me. The first cover he bid $2.25 and won the lot. He uncovered my top bid that way. Then the rest of the covers he went in and ran me up to my max of $2 on all of them. Either the seller's other account, a friend of his, or just some mean spirited eBayer.
That episode sold me that I'd never bid directly. Always through the snipe service now.
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"He uncovered my top bid that way."
Whenever I am the first bidder on multiple items from the same seller, I use various oddball bids (e.g. $2.73, $3.11, $3.58) just to prevent this sort of thing.
Ted
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03:56:05am
I think usng a bidder service takes all the fun out of sniping and winning ith a last second or two sniping bid..
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"I think usng a bidder service takes all the fun out of sniping and winning ith a last second or two sniping bid.."
Charlie,
I agree that a manual snipe is preferable; not only more satisfying, but also free! But I can't always be at a computer or even iPhone when I choose. There are also times I choose to make myself unavailable (taking my kids to a movie, taking my wife out to dinner, etc.). I don't want to schedule that stuff around when auctions close. I use a sniper service when I am unable to be there to do it myself. On more than one occasion I have set up a snipe that I intended to cancel and do manually only to find that I couldn't get away from work and was very glad that snipe was out there. There are also multiple occasions where I set a snipe and later found myself available for a manual bid, so I simply cancelled the snipe.
A bidding service is nothing more than an additional tool for me to use.
Lars
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11:32:32pm
Of course, Lars. we can't always set our schedule by when an auction closes, even when the item offered is something long sought after.
I am retired and usually up half the night, a different situation, for sure.
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"There are also multiple occasions where I set a snipe and later found myself available for a manual bid, so I simply cancelled the snipe. "
I set my snipe and forget about it. I don't even want to know when it ends. And in the rare occurrence when I'm there for the end, I just sit and watch esnipe do it's job.
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11:56:08pm
"I just sit and watch esnipe do it's job."
" Different strokes for different folks !"
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I usually like to bid on special items at the end so just not to expose I am interested since some bidders will react (bid minimum to get lot and not bid what they will pay). I do not use a bidding tool but I need to consider it because I cannot always bid at the time the auction closes.
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"I am interested since some bidders will react (bid minimum to get lot and not bid what they will pay)."
I find it interesting that there are people on eBay that will go and put in the minimum bid on items. I mean when you view the finished auction results on a $50 item and see two bidders, one at the 99 cent starting bid, outbid by another cheapo bidding $2.
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02:34:19am
On the other hand a singular bidder may place an appropriate bid but until a second bidder moves the original bidders proxy is not revealed.
We have in our auction several sellers who set the opening at 1¢. I almost always place what I think is fair, but when you view the bid page you might think I bid just that 1¢.
Once in a while I'll take the lot for the l¢ since there was no second bidder.
However those sellers know that the trick on their part is to get the bidding started. It must be worthwhile or they wouldn't do it.
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I regularly use my sniping tool Esnipe.com to do my proxy bidding. There is usually controversy about sniping (either thru an automated service or manually) versus bidding directly on eBay, as the auction progresses. So I did a bit of a study.
I regularly buy cheap covers for my New Jersey postmark collection. 99% of these are purchased for the opening bid with no bidding competition, using esnipe to deliver a bid 6 seconds before the auction closes.
There is a theory that bids attract other bids. The fact that when someone sees that someone else wants an item, suddenly they want it too. I decided to go through my usual evening search and bid directly onto eBay instead of sniping. Here's the results.
Note that every friggin auction I bid on visibly got counter bids!
And here's one where I wasn't having it! It already had a bid on it when I found it. You can see the cheapskate had bid $1.12 and I became high bidder at $2.00. Then he went back fishing and bid $2.00 and was told he wasn't high bidder since he only matched my bid. So he outbid me at $3.00.
Now if I had continued to bid, he would've continued to bid and we'd have a bidding war on this simple cover. So I let him think he chased me off. But what he didn't know was I set up a snipe bid, and with six seconds to go I outbid him. Here you can see how the snipe software saved me money.
Most of the time when I use the snipe software to bid, I seldom have competition.
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re: Sniping on eBay
Hi BenFranklin1902;
Have you ever considered that eBay itself is using shill bidding to make sure you do not get a bargain?
If big corporations will cheat to save money even when they know they are poisoning the well (PG&E hexavalent chromium 1993), what makes you think that any large corporate entity can be trusted to be honest. The PG&E thing is but one of hundreds of incidents of massive pollution by corporations. Right here in Michigan, is one just a few counties from where I live. It is in White Lake, and is a EPA superfund site, that is the result of Hooker Chemical. It was so bad that it resulted in a Frontline documentary.
If a legal clerk (Erin Brockovich) without any formal education can uncover such a huge public health threat, by a big corporation then there must be many that are harder to uncover lurking everywhere. The larger that corporations become, the harder it is to keep them honest, or to detect evil doing.
That is an interesting experiment that you did, and thanks for sharing. For the benefit of other members, share some more info on this sniping. How much does it cost? Are the fees charged per item sniped or are they like a monthly charge? Would members benefit if they are only occasional buyers, or is it only useful for frequent buyers?
Just thinkin' again....
TuskenRaider
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re: Sniping on eBay
"Have you ever considered that eBay itself is using shill bidding to make sure you do not get a bargain?"
No.
Tad
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re: Sniping on eBay
"Have you ever considered that eBay itself is using shill bidding to make sure you do not get a bargain?"
You mean like on Ashley Madison where the alleged frisky housewives were all just part of the software?
In this case I don't think eBay is doing that. They are trying to get away from the auction model to have big vendors at fixed pricing. Plus the stuff I bid on is small potatoes, not worth the manipulation.
Sniping is for anyone who wants to buy at auction on eBay. And the sniping services allow you to place your bids, and change or retract them anytime before the actual auction ending. The cost is minimal.
Go to esnipe.com and you can get a free trial. It's all done on their site so there is no app to load onto your computer or anything. The setup is easy. You provide them with your eBay account info and log in password. You tell them how long prior to the auction end you want your bid placed.
To bid, you simply copy and paste the eBay auction number into their page and the auction title etc appear. You set your bid price and hit enter. That confirms your bid and brings you to a page that tells you your activity.
There is a check up about an hour before auction end. They will email you if your bid is now under the current high bid so you can modify it if you choose. Otherwise they won't bid since it's fruitless.
Then you get an email with the results of the auction when it ends.
Cost wise, they sell you "points" that are only charged when you are successful. The points charged vary by ending bid. Most of my purchases are low cost and the fee is about a quarter. I buy $10 worth of points at a time, and that lasts me about a year. It doesn't matter how often you bid, it's worthwhile.
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re: Sniping on eBay
ebay is making plenty of money without needing to risk losing it all by resorting to fraud. You are being too paranoid.
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re: Sniping on eBay
And it's not just the fraud aspect; who is going to pay for the items on which ebay allegedly shill-bids, but which don't attract any higher bids? Ebay certainly is not.
Ted
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re: Sniping on eBay
I agree that some bidders are encouraged by other biddings. You can see them keep coming back with a new bid after being outbid.
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re: Sniping on eBay
"... some bidders are encouraged by other biddings ..."
We are all price-takers. All the time, and on every thing.
Every bid is based on what other people paid for similar items and that, in turn, is based on what the item was worth to them, not us.
It is entirely natural & correct to tell yourself that the highest current bid is the 'going rate' or 'market-clearing price', and to decide to pay the increment to own the item.
The problem, of course, is that this logic never exhausts itself.
When prices climb, I find it useful to remind myself that, as much as I crave any single item, there are zillions of other things that I would like to buy & own ... for the same money ... and for which I will not need to outbid an over-motivated competitor.
I agree that sniping is a good way to avoid attracting other bidders, but I insist that the max price we set is informed by the market.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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25 Sep 2016
09:15:37pm
re: Sniping on eBay
I too use esnipe - I did a similar comparison before on several QV stamps. One I did by bidding and one I did by esnipe. The one I bid on went much higher than it should have and the one I used esnipe on went for much lower. I had a 3 second esnipe bid and within the last 10 seconds there were quite a few extra bids but since the stamp bid was lower (despite a bidding war in the last few hours), the bids were lower. I had mine set for my max and it came out significantly lower than if I had manually bid.
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re: Sniping on eBay
"ebay is making plenty of money without needing to risk losing it all by resorting to fraud. You are being too paranoid."
If that is the case, why did eBay petition the Canadian government to end the labour disputes between Canada Post and its labour union, CUPW (Canadain Union of Postal Workers)? Simple; with the threat of mail disruption, very few people were buying off eBay, and eBay was losing money and market share.
David
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re: Sniping on eBay
" but I insist that the max price we set is informed by the market.
"
I agree in general but it is also about timing since some people will pay more because they want it and not in regards to market. This is why some price things higher because they are waiting for the one person who either does not realize they could get it cheaper by waiting or wants it right now..or makes a mistake (like I recently did).
I just wonder who is buying all those common plate block lots when if you wait you can often get them anywhere from below face to face. Is it collectors or someone trying to sell them individually later?
Al
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re: Sniping on eBay
"If that is the case, why did eBay petition the Canadian government to end the labour disputes between Canada Post and its labour union"
That has nothing to do with shill bidding.
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I started buying off Ebay their second year online. It was a wonderful venue! People were selling collectibles left and right and the buyers market hadn't caught up with it yet. Now it's become a dog eat dog world, with competition coming from every direction. Volume still allows for the occasional find, but it pales in comparison to those first 3 or 4 years.
It was similar back in the late 70's and early 80's with estate auctions. Man, there was some killer deals to be had. But then the internet made advertising upcoming auctions worldwide a possibility and the dealers and such came out of the woodwork. Now anything collectible from estate sales is pretty much out of reach to the average collector.
As to snipe bidding, I've come to see it as just part of the game. It's always tempting to try and deliver a knockout blow to that jerk that dares try to outbid you.
WB
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"... I just wonder who is buying all those common plate block lots ..."
I put it down to money-laundering, but that's me.
"... Now anything collectible from estate sales is pretty much out of reach to the average collector ..."
When estate sales are frequented by dealers - who cannot pay a price higher than that at which they will sell to a collector, and at a profit - collectors do fine.
When estate sales are frequented by collectors, you might as well go home ... unless there is something that you cannot live without, in which case you will wish that you had just gone home.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: Sniping on eBay
"I just wonder who is buying all those common plate block lots when if you wait you can often get them anywhere from below face to face. Is it collectors or someone trying to sell them individually later?"
I see that too. There will be a lot "50 mixed 4 cent commemorative plate blocks" and two dopes are battling it out around $22 for $8 face value of stamps.
I have bought a bunch of large lots, recently $100 worth of postage for $60 and was surprised that it was all commemorative plate blocks from the 1950s to the ten cent era. Maybe I need to run that auction!
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09:36:03am
re: Sniping on eBay
I see ebay as a facilitator.
The question is whether collectors would be better off without it? And I think the answer is "no". From my perspective as a buyer, I am happy enough with the prices I pay.
There are two safeguards to "biying unseen"....the approval rating of the vendor and in most cases buyers know what they are buying is the real deal.
I dont think Id ever be tempted to buy a "variety" such as colour change or ever pay more than (say) £30 for something I have not seen and I dont think Id purchase anything from outside Britain or Ireland.
Sniping? Well I am "old school" and I tend to put in my offer in the last thirty seconds (although I have a preference for a fixed price purchase) so I suppose thats a wild shot in the dark rather than targetted marksmanship.
There is I think a form of reverse sniping (which is a bad metaphor as it sounds like a form of suicide) but I am pretty sure that some vendors intervene and bid themselves (or thru a third party) if they feel an item is going too cheaply.
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re: Sniping on eBay
Ikey, your point is well taken and may very well be true in the area you live in. But, in the rural America where I live, dealers DO come from the big cities and ARE able to bid higher and return to their stores, where antiques and collectables command higher prices. Most become aware of the auctions through the advertising over the internet. Back in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's, the majority of the competition came from a 50 mile radius of the sale.
I concede that even back then, if there was an advanced collector in the area, then competition was stiff, but still, much less likely.
WB
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re: Sniping on eBay
Years ago I would buy stamps on e-bay as I could find what I needed to fill my blank spots at a good price. I didn't have a lot of money, but still wanted to collect. I would bid a lot in the last few seconds on stamps that hadn't been bid at all.
One day I saw a comment about my snipping a great stamp. Made me feel guilty and I didn't do a lot of buying after that. Probably bought too many stamps at a high price from a dealer. Anyway, I stopped buying and selling on e-bay because of the fees by e-bay that I could no longer afford.
Many times I would buy lots and use the duplicates for trading. Much cheaper than buying individual.
I do think estate sales at reduced prices may be lowering the value of our stamps that we have collected for years.
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re: Sniping on eBay
There is nothing wrong with sniping on eBay. In fact I subscribe to a sniping service that allows me to post my maximum bids with their site anytime and they deliver a flawless 6 second snipe every time. Even then I only win when nobody else bids higher.
The dealer put it out there at a low starting bid to generate interest. They took a calculated risk and sometimes they win and sometimes they lose. No guilt in winning those. It was offered to you and you accepted.
Back in the days when I sold car memorabilia on eBay, I started all my auctions at $2.99 each. Some of them would sell for starting bid. Some would go much higher. My average sale turned out to be $11.50 which was worthwhile for me. So I never focused on the losers, I just focused that every one I shipped was worth $11.50 to me.
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re: Sniping on eBay
Here's another example of sniping... how I lost on a lot yesterday. That's me in the middle. There were no bids on the item at all until the last seven seconds of the auction. I'll bet everyone was using sniping software! It's not just on expensive items as you can see here.
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re: Sniping on eBay
I don't use sniping services, but I do snipe manually, on occasion, and I can get my bid in within the last 3 seconds.
Despite what naysayers have said about the practice, I know one very good reason why it could be advantageous (though, it is not possible to say how often, if ever, this reasoning worked), and that is the fact that some currently-high bidders will lose track of the time, and not realize the auction is closing soon. This can happen even though you get an "auction closing soon" notification, about 14 minutes before the close. I know, because it has happened to me more times than I care to remember.
If you bid and become the new current high bidder, ebay messages the former high bidder informing him he has been outbid. Sniping within the last few seconds leaves him no time to even read that notification, much less react to it.
Ted
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08:37:51pm
re: Sniping on eBay
I always snipe by setting the maximum price I'm willing to pay, then let things take their course. All emotion is taken out of the bidding process and I don't have to sit by my computer or mobile device waiting for the auction to end (sometimes wee hours of the morning).
I use a free sniping service called Gixen. It has been completely reliable.
-Les
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19 Nov 2016
12:10:14am
re: Sniping on eBay
When I've used auctions instead of BIN I too use sniping. I totally forgot about sniping when I went back to looking at some stamps that I really wanted and ended up paying more than I originally planned. Then I went back to sniping - set mine to 3 or 4 seconds. There were some lots that I really wanted and lost by only a few dollars or even 50c which I'd kick myself over. If I use an auction I always use the sniping and make sure that the amount I set is no more than 45% of CV but there are hard to get German occupation stamps that I have tried to get over the years. I once won 3 lots from one fellow and needed the 4th lot to complete the one area I needed and lost it by about $5 even though I set it for about 75% of CV - but at the same time no doubt the person who won lot 4 was probably ticked off that I grabbed the other 3 lots. It was a chance you have to take. Never feel bad about sniping if it's something you really want or need for your collection. Even with using sniping you'll either win or lose. It's a gamble we all take when it's a lot we really want.
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re: Sniping on eBay
ESniping sounds like a great way to ensure that you win ... unless there's more then one eSniper! EBay's sellers must be delighted with the concept, because it's possible that there might be a bidding war. I make my early bid at my maximum and let it go at that. Either I win, or it sells for more then I'm willing to pay ... just as two eSnipers will find.
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12:25:14pm
re: Sniping on eBay
Am I mistaken or are sniping services violating eBay policy and can get a bidder tossed off eBay for 30 days or banned outright for using a paid sniping service versus taking one's chances manually one by one with items bid on at the lowest possible remaining second in the auction?
Bruce
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re: Sniping on eBay
If it is against policy, they don't do much about enforcing it. It's been going on for the better part of 10 years and I don't recall ever hearing about someone being suspended for it.
-Allen
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re: Sniping on eBay
I use esnipe, have been since it was started and was free. I am grandfathered in so I don't have to pay a fee to esnipe for bids below $25.00, which a lot of my bids are. If my bid turns out that I am the highest I win, really simple idea. be the highest bidder and you win the auction. I don't need to let everyone know what my max is. Esnipe lets me place a bid and forget about it until the end of the auction. Ebay is an international selling platform so auctions can end on any day or any time, I don't have the time to sit and wait for every auction I am interested in to come up. Then there is the chance my computer is running slow or I am busy doing other things.
The same principle applies to live auctions, I use an agent and they know my max and bid for me when I am not available to bid in person. I don't get into bidding wars, just a waste of time and money.
Vince
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re: Sniping on eBay
Hi Bruce,
There is nothing in the eBay user agreement about sniping, automated or otherwise,
I nearly always use an automated sniping service when bidding on auction item.
Why risk running up the price when you don't have to?
Why rely on manual sniping?
You can save your maximum bid in good time well before the auction closes and then see later what has happened.
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re: Sniping on eBay
Vinman said: Esnipe lets me place a bid and forget about it until the end of the auction.
EBay does the same thing, and no one knows your maximum bid.
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re: Sniping on eBay
Sniping is allowed on eBay and on most online auction services.
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re: Sniping on eBay
"EBay does the same thing, and no one knows your maximum bid."
This is true but your bid above the current bid is always shown, therefore you start the bidding war.
If your maximum bid was hidden, as in sniping, until the last second then it would then be the same thing.
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re: Sniping on eBay
on ebay, bidders can run up the bids to your max bid and past it. Using esnipe, no one will know until the last minute what your max bid was and if your bid wins the lot, they still won't know. That is the advantage of esnipe.
Tad
Added: Just have to think and type faster! Our SOR members are so fast with comments and answers. Love it!
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re: Sniping on eBay
Tad, think you worded it better, maybe I should let my brain cell have more time.
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re: Sniping on eBay
Sheepshanks said: This is true but your bid above the current bid is always shown, therefore you start the bidding war.
If your maximum bid was hidden, as in sniping, until the last second then it would then be the same thing.
Very seldom do I get to my maximum bid. If I'm starting a bidding war, and my max does get beat, I'm done. I walk away, with no further interest in that item ... unless I get beat by less then a full increment.
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re: Sniping on eBay
Anglophile said: ... because no one knows you are in the auction, so other sniping bidders have no basis from which to pick their maximums ...
A max bid should not be based upon someone else's bid, but the most you am willing to pay. I think anything else would be foolhardy.
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carlbery,
I agree with you but in the world of ebay that is not the way people bid. People let their emotions take over and a bidding war starts. That is the way ebay and brick and mortar auctions work. They count on your emotions to help get the highest price for their goods
When I first started bidding on ebay it was possible to know who you were bidding against and some bidders would search out items you were bidding on and then bid against you. It took me awhile to learn that so I was doing the work for other bidders (my competition).
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I'm not sure why there is a misunderstanding concerning snipe bids. In theory, if one is perfectly satisfied to win each lot at the maximum bid amount, with no regrets, then there is no need to set up a snipe bid at all.
We can probably do a statistical analysis of ebay max bids vs esnipe max bids. Using a sniping system will end up saving some money, if not much in the long run, assuming that this is important.
Tad
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"... I use a free sniping service called Gixen ..."
"If the product is free, then you are the product."
Q/ So they sustain themselves by selling anonymous and/or aggregated data?
Q/ Or, their backers are willing to enjoy zero revenue to build market share with a customer base that is paying them nothing?
Q/ Or ...
Q/ Are the paid services also selling anonymous and/or aggregated data?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Tad, you said
"In theory, if one is perfectly satisfied to win each lot at the maximum bid amount, with no regrets, then there is no need to set up a snipe bid at all."
In theory I am satisfied to win at my max bid but I prefer to win at a lower price. Sniping and an auction agent help me to do that.
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 210 5 Fancy Cancel #1735 Info Won! $4.25 302141417967 $7.89 12/01/2016 18:56:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 210 5 Fancy Cancel #1737 Info Won! $6.38 371791943489 $7.89 12/01/2016 18:54:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 210 Open Maltese Cross Fancy Cancel #1739 Info Won! $3.13 371791943400 $7.89 12/01/2016 18:52:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special 3c Green Negative P in Circle Fancy Cancel #1703 Info Outbid 302141393280 $5.89 12/01/2016 18:11:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special 3c Green S Fancy Cancel #1707 Info Won! $6.50 371791913963 $7.89 12/01/2016 18:07:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special 3c Green Fancy Cancel #1721 Info Won! $1.25 302141392244 $6.89 12/01/2016 17:53:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel General Catalog of Postmarks of the United States 1946 Edition Info Won! $3.26 302140426168 $7.89 12/01/2016 17:13:56 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 W Fancy Cancel #1610 Info Won! $5.50 302139555572 $12.89 11/30/2016 18:55:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1618 Info Won! $3.00 302139555209 $13.89 11/30/2016 18:47:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1625 Info Won! $5.50 302139554788 $8.89 11/30/2016 18:40:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1630 Info Won! $1.76 371790416908 $8.89 11/30/2016 18:35:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Paid in Circle Fancy Cancel #1631 Info Won! $5.51 371790416877 $12.89 11/30/2016 18:34:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1635 Info Won! $9.50 302139554352 $12.89 11/30/2016 18:30:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1636 Info Won! $12.50 302139554299 $12.89 11/30/2016 18:29:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Fancy Cancel #1642 Info Won! $10.50 302139554075 $13.89 11/30/2016 18:23:29 Remove
Mr Fancy Cancel 99c Special Scott 65 Paid Fancy Cancel #1645 Info Won! $3.85 302139553966 $16.89 11/30/2016 18:20:29
Here is a list of 16 recent bids and the results from those auctions. Out of the sixteen auctions I lost one. When I do lose an auction it is usually by one increment over my highest bid and often by another snipe bid. I have no regrets overlosing an auction, if I really want want an item I bid accordingly but also have lost some of those auctions. I try to be sensible with my bidding.
When I use an agent for brick and mortar auctions they will not take an "get it at any price" bid. I do give them the option of raising my bid by several increments if needed.
Vince
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Vincent said: In theory I am satisfied to win at my max bid but I prefer to win at a lower price. Sniping and an auction agent help me to do that.
I never win at my max. Either I'm outbid, or I get it at one increment higher then someone's lower bid ... just as Esnipe does. I can't see how you save money.
Vincent, please don't think that I'm picking on you. It's just that I'm a feisty old man who likes to argue! LOL
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Carl,
You will understand the benefit of sniping once you've been nibbled to death. I placed a bid for US 573 MH (with a CV of $110 back then) and placed my bid for $85 knowing that they typically went for a max of 75% of CV. I had to place the bid several hours before the auction ended because I would be away from home (back before iPhones). When I came back, I had lost by one bid increment. There was a lot of activity with an hour to go and the price was run up to about $50, as I would expect. Then everyone dropped out except one guy with a low number of auctions won or sold. He bid $55 and was automatically outbid by me. 5 minutes later he bid $60. (Outbid) A while later $65. Each time he would take a while to make the next bid, but every time he felt more confident that the stamp was worth more money. Eventually he outbid me, and of course everyone else had long ago dropped out.
I am certain that had I snipered that auction, I would have won for significantly less than $85, maybe as little as $56. Of course, there could have been another sniper out there, but I'm not losing to "that guy" ever again.
Put another way, sniping eliminates the opportunity for an unknowledgeable buyer to leverage off of your expertise on what the real worth of the stamp is. I want them to remain uncertain until it's too late.
Lars
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OK, Lars, I can see your point.
I don't usually have much success in bidding, since I'm looking to resell and therefore need to really keep my maximum bid fairly low ... about 10% of catalog.
I'm certainly going to have to re-evaluate my distaste for Esniping.
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"I don't usually have much success in bidding, since I'm looking to resell and therefore need to really keep my maximum bid fairly low"
All the more reason to snipe! However, when I am in bottom-feeder mode, I will place an opening bid at the minimum if there aren't any other bids, just to let other bottom-feeders know they aren't alone. (On a 99c opening I will bid $1.04 just so if another bidder comes along and bids minimum they will lose to me on a tie. What they do next tells me a lot about their expertise).
If there is already a bid for the minimum (e.g. 99c), I don't bid at all before the snipe. No reason to let the first bidder know there is another interested party. Then, when I snipe, I snipe for the precise amount I am willing to pay for that item. If you were willing to pay a penny more, you should have bid a penny higher. In essence, I am willfully changing the eBay "auction" process into a more favorable (to me) "sealed bid" process. Many successful buyers are doing just that.
Of course, if you are in bottom-feeder mode (buying for resale), just one retail buyer will spoil your efforts, but if there is no retail interest you should do better. Some of my best buys are when I buy something for my collection for one bid increment higher than the highest wholesale buyer. Of course if there aren't even any wholesalers bidding, that's a nice day!
Lars
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Lars, I have actually lost and won bids by a penny!
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It's a lot more fun to win one by a penny than lose one by a penny, eh?
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So what is everyone's favorite sniping software...free would be first choice.
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I have been using esnipe and have had no problems. I can't comment on other sniping services because esnipe is the only one I ever used. I don't have the need to try other services.
Vince
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Message from EBay: Item #282289510089 Instant payment received from ...
Instant payment only took two-and-half days!
Don't know if my Dollar/Real conversion rate email to the customer helped.
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I use ezsniper.com. I like being able to choose from 3 different plans (fixed percentage, fixed price, or unlimited wins). I suspect other services are comparable. I've been happy with my service and haven't bothered to shop around for several years.
Lars
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"Lars, I have actually lost and won bids by a penny!"
When you lose by a penny, it does not necessarily mean you would have won, had you bid a penny or two higher than you did. It just means your bid was not a standard incremental amount. If you had a proxy max bid in of, say, $11.49, and someone else came along and put in a max bid of $18.00, the proxy system would only increase your existing high proxy bid up to the next standard increment, $11.50.
Ted
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03:16:32pm
re: Sniping on eBay
With the knowledge that sniping is legal on eBay, I read here about a snipe service (free) from a post by Les and went there. I note that the site requires that you login with your eBay name and password.
That seems odd to me: Giving up my password.
Is that normal for snipe sites to require your eBay login info?
Bruce
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Without your login info, the snipe services could not make any bids for you.
On ebay if you bid 11.49, and someone bids 18.00, the bid would be 11.99, a 50c bid increase. If someone bids 11.50 the bid will be refused.
If someone had already bid 11.50 and you bid 11.49 at the last second, you will lose the lot by 1 cent.
Now that I'm confused, I will leave.
Tad
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"That seems odd to me: Giving up my password.
Is that normal for snipe sites to require your eBay login info?"
They need your eBay user name and password to be able to bid on your behalf. Quite normal, in fact the only way!
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06:36:32pm
re: Sniping on eBay
Yes, I just had the classic "doh" moment--of course they need the username and apparently the password but that still seems odd to me. One must put a lot of trust out there with these services.
With all the file snooping and cyber theft we witness in the news, it seems like giving up your password to a middle party may eventually lead to, at the very least, mischievous hijinx brought about by cyber theft.
I think I will pass on sniping.
Bruce
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"With all the file snooping and cyber theft we witness in the news, it seems like giving up your password to a middle party may eventually lead to, at the very least, mischievous hijinx brought about by cyber theft.
I think I will pass on sniping."
If you have concerns just make sure that you use a unique password for eBay.
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I prefer the thrill of the hunt and do my own sniping.
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One important way to protect yourself when working with a sniping service is to make sure that there are *zero* payment methods linked to your eBay account.
That way, even if those dolts get hacked, whoever accesses your eBay account will not be able to buy anything at your cash expense.
One of the important advantages of PayPal, in general, is that your credit card details do not remain on vendor servers.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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"I prefer the thrill of the hunt and do my own sniping."
I do the same where possible. I have set up snipes with my service and cancelled them when I realized I would be in front of a computer screen when the auction closed. Even if it's only for a few bucks, and it only saves me a few pennies in snipe fees, I like a manual snipe.
But many times a manual snipe is not feasible for me, so I depend on my sniper service.
Lars
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I must be missing something (my wife agrees on a daily basis). If you know what your top bid is (the most you will give for the item at auction) why do you need a sniping service and how does it save you money? For example, if I see something of interest and I come to the determination that $30.00 is the most I'll give, I bid $30.00 whether there's 10 minutes or 10 days left on the auction. If I'm outbid by end of auction so be it. If I win I'll win at the last increment of bidding whether it is the full $30.00 or $27.50 or whatever. What am I missing?
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Hi Stokesville, Maybe you could have bought the items for less than your maximum if other bidders are not able to run up your maximum visually. Some do this to make you spend more on an item especially if they know there is a similar item also available.
Here are a number of my recent Snipes showing actual cost and my maximum.
Bid Amount Max Bid
Won! $9.06 $12.90
Won! $3.81 $6.80
Won! $8.30 $13.90
Won! $13.00 $13.90
Bid too low $7.90
Won! $13.06 $32.90
Won! EUR 5.38 EUR 12.90
Won! $16.27 $44.90
Won! $8.71 $10.60
Won! $5.50 $15.60
Won! $8.00 $36.01
Won! $5.50 $10.05
Won! $11.50 $23.95
Won! $4.26 $7.90
Won! $4.25 $11.90
I try to not add items to my watch list as to not give away my interest. Quite often, if there are only one or two bidders they get lulled into a false sense of winning and therefore the winning bid can be just a few cents over the last bid.
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Hi Sheepshanks. I must admit your success rate on those auctions and the percentage off of your high bid are impressive. Were you suggesting that other bidders can see my maximum bid? Or are they taking a stab in the dark trying to raise the price.
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"... I must be missing something ... why do you need a sniping service and how does it save you money? ..."
People are price-takers.
You may 'know' your maximum bid, but that bid is still based on what other people paid, in the past, for that same item.
And the same goes for their maximum bids.
=== without sniping
So, let's say that there is one bidder, and s/he bids U$D 5.
You bid U$D 6.
You just proved to the first bidder 1) that the item is 'worth' U$D 6 and, for one increment above U$D 6, it can be theirs.
So, they bid U$D 7.
If you had entered your max bid of U$D 12 into an auto-incrementing system, that system would now auto-bid you at U$D 8.
But the same logic applies: the item is obviously 'worth' U$D 8 and, for only one increment more than your bid, s/he can win the item, so s/he bids U$D 9.
Like the king said: etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
All because we are price-takers, and take our cues (and that means all of our social cues) from one another.
=== with sniping
If you had sniped your U$D 12 max bid, the visible bidding would still stand at U$D 5, and you would be in position to win at U$D 6 ... at the end, when it really matters.
Hope that helps,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Stokesville, no they cannot see your maximum bid, only your last bid but a bit like storage wars some like to run up a bidder and consider it fun. It also leaves you open to shill bids.
I find that if I put in any bid it alerts another bidder to my interest, whereas if I snipe they have no idea that I, or someone else, has an interest until the auction is won.
The Sniping does not even use the same bidder code for each of my final bids. Sometimes if I look at the final, winning, bid I'm not even sure It's me until I get the Ebay email or check on my sniping account.
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Thank you Sheepshanks and Ikey Pikey- I guess I'm naive and didn't see it happening that way!
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stokesville,
The simple explanation is this:
Using sniper bids you can change the format from auction to sealed bid.
That is to your advantage if you are a knowledgeable bidder.
That prevents a price run-up by a rookie bidder and devious bids by shill bidders.
Lars
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Lars,
That is the best explanation I heard for sniping. Very simple and easy to comprehend. I always use my sniping service, well worth the fee. I just set it and forget it.
Vince
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I think I got taken a few weeks ago. A seller had some NJ postmark covers with a 99 cent starting bid. There were six of them. I figured no one else would want them so I bid directly on eBay, and put in a $2 bid on each.
What do I get? A single bidder went and bid against me. The first cover he bid $2.25 and won the lot. He uncovered my top bid that way. Then the rest of the covers he went in and ran me up to my max of $2 on all of them. Either the seller's other account, a friend of his, or just some mean spirited eBayer.
That episode sold me that I'd never bid directly. Always through the snipe service now.
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"He uncovered my top bid that way."
Whenever I am the first bidder on multiple items from the same seller, I use various oddball bids (e.g. $2.73, $3.11, $3.58) just to prevent this sort of thing.
Ted
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Dec 2016
03:56:05am
re: Sniping on eBay
I think usng a bidder service takes all the fun out of sniping and winning ith a last second or two sniping bid..
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"I think usng a bidder service takes all the fun out of sniping and winning ith a last second or two sniping bid.."
Charlie,
I agree that a manual snipe is preferable; not only more satisfying, but also free! But I can't always be at a computer or even iPhone when I choose. There are also times I choose to make myself unavailable (taking my kids to a movie, taking my wife out to dinner, etc.). I don't want to schedule that stuff around when auctions close. I use a sniper service when I am unable to be there to do it myself. On more than one occasion I have set up a snipe that I intended to cancel and do manually only to find that I couldn't get away from work and was very glad that snipe was out there. There are also multiple occasions where I set a snipe and later found myself available for a manual bid, so I simply cancelled the snipe.
A bidding service is nothing more than an additional tool for me to use.
Lars
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Dec 2016
11:32:32pm
re: Sniping on eBay
Of course, Lars. we can't always set our schedule by when an auction closes, even when the item offered is something long sought after.
I am retired and usually up half the night, a different situation, for sure.
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"There are also multiple occasions where I set a snipe and later found myself available for a manual bid, so I simply cancelled the snipe. "
I set my snipe and forget about it. I don't even want to know when it ends. And in the rare occurrence when I'm there for the end, I just sit and watch esnipe do it's job.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Dec 2016
11:56:08pm
re: Sniping on eBay
"I just sit and watch esnipe do it's job."
" Different strokes for different folks !"
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I usually like to bid on special items at the end so just not to expose I am interested since some bidders will react (bid minimum to get lot and not bid what they will pay). I do not use a bidding tool but I need to consider it because I cannot always bid at the time the auction closes.
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"I am interested since some bidders will react (bid minimum to get lot and not bid what they will pay)."
I find it interesting that there are people on eBay that will go and put in the minimum bid on items. I mean when you view the finished auction results on a $50 item and see two bidders, one at the 99 cent starting bid, outbid by another cheapo bidding $2.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
31 Dec 2016
02:34:19am
re: Sniping on eBay
On the other hand a singular bidder may place an appropriate bid but until a second bidder moves the original bidders proxy is not revealed.
We have in our auction several sellers who set the opening at 1¢. I almost always place what I think is fair, but when you view the bid page you might think I bid just that 1¢.
Once in a while I'll take the lot for the l¢ since there was no second bidder.
However those sellers know that the trick on their part is to get the bidding started. It must be worthwhile or they wouldn't do it.
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