Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Since neither dealer will accept my bids, i'm pretty sure that they are part of the British Cartel.
Get ready for some thrilling shilling!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272515711764?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/192075963050?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Out of curiosity I checked both listings and even if one seller is in California and the other in New York it is too much of a coincidence that both listings have the same font and if you scroll down you also see the same font, different from the heading but exactly alike again in size and spacing,it is safe to assume that there's a connection between both of them, the question is, are you on "both" of them black list?
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... the question is, are you on "both" of their black list?
Yes, and I presume on all British Cartel lists.
Although they have a US mailing address, they are both based in United Kingdom.
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What is "the British Cartel"? It sounds distinctly sinister.
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What is "the British Cartel"? It sounds distinctly sinister.
This link will give you some idea of their activities ...
http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43980
(Modified by Moderator on 2017-01-17 09:22:20)
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Even though the title is the same, the stamps are not, so what am I missing here and have you reported any of this information to Ebay, to let them determine if there is in fact something nefarious going on here? Do you really have an interest in buying either of these stamps or are you just on a witch hunt? I have seen many dealers on Ebay that I don't particularly like, so I stay away from their items and pursue dealers lots whom I would rather buy from, thereby causing me less pain, trepidation and gray hairs
Mike.
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Do you really have an interest in buying either of these stamps or are you just on a witch hunt?
My original interest was in a purchase, until I realized who the sellers were. Then my purpose was in showing the shilling activity which will occur at the end of the listings.
Contacting EBay is fruitless, as a host of others can tell you.
Apparently I underestimated this site's awareness of the British Cartel's notoriety.
Please google British Cartel Stamps.
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I did some reading, if nothing else, to get familiar with the discussion on hand and I'm amazed of what's going on in the stamp world, then again since I'm a stamp collector not an investor or speculator I don't have a thing to worry about, spending few hundred let alone thousands of dollars on a single stamp is something I'll never do. I already have on my black list many collectors and dealers that charge you $2.50 to send four or five stamps and when the envelope arrives is franked with a 47 cents stamp but these guys (BCS) will never be on it. These BSC seems to be a very well orchestrated operation and I believe that those who fell in their wave probably deserve it, and BTW ebay as paypal is not going to bite the hand that feeds them, so good luck with your complaints.
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These BSC seems to be a very well orchestrated operation and I believe that those who fell in their wave probably deserve it
If you believe that ignorant, wealthy buyers probably deserve it then I'm glad that you are a collector, not a seller.
... and BTW ebay as paypal is not going to bite the hand that feeds them, so good luck with your complaints.
I have no complaint ... just trying to get people to do some reading!
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"then again since I'm a stamp collector not an investor or speculator I don't have a thing to worry about"
Guess again, Stamp Collector. Attempts by unscrupulous people to defraud stamp collectors have been going on since the beginning of the hobby. There are tons of forged stamps out there, with a very large number of forgeries made of stamps that are of low value. You may even have some in your own collection and don't even know it. You may be surprised, depending on what you collect.
The late Varro Tyler's book, "Focus on Forgeries" contains hundreds of examples of low-valued stamps that have been forged for the sole purpose of duping stamp collectors. Such forgeries show up in a large number of collections all the time.
Many of the forgers through the centuries were very well orchestrated operations. No one who honestly believed that they (most collectors) were getting a genuine stamp and unwittingly "fell in their wave" deserved to become a crime victim.
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There are tons of forged stamps out there, with a very large number of forgeries made of stamps that are of low value.
In another thread I listed 8 fake or misidentified stamps that I had purchased. The average price was less then $60.
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Many forgeries are of stamps that catalog less than $1.00.
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update ...
The current high bidder ($865!) has had 21% of all his bids in the last 30 days with this seller.
He has had 2 bid retractions.
The next highest bidder was at 27% with this seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272515711764?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Rather than trying to report this to Ebay would it not be more correct to report to the Trading Standards Office / Better Business Bureau or whatever it is called in the USA.
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While I understand that there's a wide range of forgeries of all sorts of stamps, I'm not very concern with how many I have in my own collection which I don't doubt I have but the point is that my collection is with me to stay so I don't see the need to spend a huge amount of money on a single stamp that I know it will not complete my collection when adding several low value stamps to it will make me just as happy, since I don't get rid of a stamp I don't have a duplicate of, my collection will be here when I'm gone and my wife will never have the heart to sell it. Being mostly a trader I don't feel so bad when a shipment is lost in the mail stream, and a as buyer I'm more disappointed about not receiving the stamps I was expecting than the few dollars that I spend to buy them, which has happened a couple of times in over 60+ years of stamp collecting. I've said this before but I will say it again, my collection may be worthless to a stamp dealer but it is priceless to me.
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... I don't see the need to spend a huge amount of money on a single stamp that I know it will not complete my collection when adding several low value stamps to it will make me just as happy ...
I totally agree. I compiled a spreadsheet of all the US stamps up to 1999. Over several decades I purchased all the stamps under $50 Dealer Catalog, and then I went to under $100, then $150, etc.
It took a lot of time and patience, but I eventually aquired a collection having a Dealer Catalog value of close to $100,000.
i can't put a value on how much joy and satisfaction it brought me.
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"Rather than trying to report this to Ebay would it not be more correct to report to the Trading Standards Office / Better Business Bureau or whatever it is called in the USA."
Sadly, a lot has been done to try and stop the "cartel" even to the point of the FBI, if I recall correctly. The man's exploits (allegedly a Phillip Ryle) were covered by the Virtual Stamp Club years ago and has been discussed on stampboards and stampcommunity since. Research the "cartel" on the stampcommunity.org website. The late Bill Weiss wrote about his exploits trying to get Ebay to do something.
http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39010&whichpage=3
A random Stampboards thread:
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=65752
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This thread has proven to be very educational, at least for me, I wasn't aware of this shenanigans going on in the hobby, then again I'm more interested in adding stamps to my collection than the background of the stamps themselves, I guess that's why I'm a stamp collector and not a philatelist and it makes me feel good to know that some you out there share my feelings while others brushed them off, that's fine stamp collecting is a hobby and if you enjoy the way you do it then you are doing it the right way. Let's face it, there are bad mechanics, bad doctors and yes bad stamp collectors, it is up to us to set them apart and sites like this one are big help.
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"if you enjoy the way you do it then you are doing it the right way."
Exactly the way I feel... I can soak a thousand stamps ( On Paper ) and if I find three or four that I need, its was all worth the time and effort...
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They say that God works in strange ways His wonders to perform.
While doing some research in my 'sold' spreadsheet, I came across the name of Philip Ryle, whom I recently learned was probably the mastermind of the British Cartel. Seems that I sold him a US #146 on May 16, 2016, for $65, making me an accomplice to whatever his plans for the stamp.
Where God comes into the picture is that #146 is the only stamp that Ive sold that was lost in the mail ! (Tracking showed that postage was paid but never delivered to the PO. It was the last time that we used a local dropbox).
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Did he ask you to refund his $65?
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Did he ask you to refund his $65?
He didn't have to ask. I requested that he wait 2 weeks to see if it showed up, and then I refunded.
Every once in a while I check up on the tracking but the status is the same.
.
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Has anyone ever dealt with this seller? (stampseller1489710). Is he/she part of the cartel? I have been watching some Philippine stamps he is selling and it sure looks like a shill is bidding them all up to beyond what they should be selling for.
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I know I sell stamps here, The average price per item is quite low, the past year, average price 17cents(I do a lot of approvals) It never fails to amaze me that people buy goods for many, many , many pounds over the internet.
I always buy my "better" goods physically from a recognised shop/dealer.
It could be my canny(mean) Scots upbringing but if I am going to part with my bawbees I want to examine the goods first. Ah dinnae like buying "pigs in a poke".
Many, many, many moons ago, when the internet was a wean(infant) ah wis telt "Only buy aff the worldwide web if ye can afford to lose either yer money or the goods cos thers an awfy lot o weegies(crooks), like ken".
Besides if you purchase from a shop you are supporting local businesses not multinational corporations that pay little or no tax, pay the minimum wage, and treat their employees as serfs.
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons said 'Ah dinnae like buying "pigs in a poke'.
Aye, Laddie, a safe and sound way ta protect the goods ... but I'm not sure if Rob Roy or William Wallace would be approvin' !
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The stamp sold for $1136, to someone with feedback of 54. The price was 36% of the seller's Catalog of $3200, but 66% of Kenmore's mint price of $1700.
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Jings! Crivvens! Help Ma Boab!
Auctions are great things. I've attended many auctions and if two bidders really really want something, then awebody elses perceived value jist gaes oot the windae.
I've seen guys pay "ower the odds" jist tae mak sure the ither guy disnae get it.
I've heard geezers moan aboot prices paid.
They're normally the guy that wanted something worth a hundred poonds but were only willing tae pay ten!!
I've even seen best friends fa' oot and almost come to blows, cos one bid against the ither.
Isn't Human nature great? Auctions can be more fun than any comedy show!!
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.
" I don't see the need to spend a huge amount of money on a single stamp that I know it will not complete my collection when adding several low value stamps to it will make me just as happy ..."
One should always do what makes them happy - unless, of course, it's illegal.
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Would someone please tell me the motive or motives for the forgery a stamp worth less than a $1.00 in catalog values? Thanks
Vernon
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In the early part of the 20th Century, forgeries of many cheap stamps were made for dealers to put in packets to sell to collectors. Many of the forgeries were of stamps that were harder to find despite the low values.
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Producing (forging, faking, however described) a bogus stamp was not quite the considerable investment in materiel and skill as might be required for, say, banknotes. In the case of the pre-war Yugoslav stamps which I have had to return to several different dealers over the past few weeks, the defence of their source ("a dealer in Ljubljana") must surely have been that his productions were 'facsimiles', easily distinguishable from the real thing by having entirely different perforations.
In the shady world of forgery/fake/repro/facsimile, bogus overprints must be comparatively easy to apply. But how cost-effective is it to alter perforation measurements? Does anyone know?
.........genuine Yugoslav stamp of 1940..................'facsimile', 'reproduction', 'forgery'
Don't look at the overprint - count the perforations!
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What do the forgers use to create the perforations? And how do they account for different size holes and perf counts?
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On the low end of production I guess you could use a sewing machine to produce the holes, different speeds/stitch sizes and needles would account for perf variations.
A notched/toothed pizza cutter type tool could also be used, run up a straight edge. More professionally a printing works would no doubt have appropriate machinery.
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11:21:46am
Whatever means of perforating a bogus stamp, the forger is extremely unlikely to have any method of changing that gadget so the stamp they produce will get the perf count they can provide, period. A committed forger of more expensive items might do some research and try to at least get close to the correct perforation count.
The same goes for watermarked paper and other more exotic technical features..
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Charlie, what you say suggests that the King Peter stamp on the right of my post was produced in the same Belgrade printing works that produced the genuine one on the left. Perhaps it was a genuine error, more likely a deliberate attempt to create varieties.
If so, what is surprising is that no-one (least of all the cataloguers) seems to have spotted this before. There are several footnotes to stamp listings that warn of unauthorised varieties in perforation, watermark or overprint, but nothing here.
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As I mentioned in the thread you opened on the subject of the Jugoslav overprints, Scott does list different perf varieties for some overprints of the base stamp.
Refer to your thread: https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=16344#123490
I said the following (and this was just a cursory glance at Scott):
"I see reference in Scott catalogs to 13x12.5 perf overprints for Yugoslavia. This would fit your measurements since perf measurements in Scott are usually rounded up/down to nearest 1/2 (except some situations)."
However, I did not find that specific overprint. My comment was regarding the existance of both perf varieties for another overprint of the same stamp, which may have some bearing on whether both your stamps are legit.
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03:59:13pm
I thought I posted a reference to this befoer, but I may have been distracted and not finished the comment;
New 1983 Official Mail error variety discovered.
" .... Collector discovers error variety of 1983 Official Mail coil stamp: The tagging-omitted error was found on a cover purchased as part of an auction lot comprising about 3,000 Official Mail covers. ...."
Okay it is not an obvious different printing and many people would pass over it unless they used an IR or UV light or were vampires with special vision.
The point is that, discoveries, in this case of a thirty-five year-old error often enough to undermine the idea that someone certainly would have noticed it before. .
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I have played around with reperfing to see if I could reproduce convincing perforations and had pretty good luck with it. As I've been making jewelry for nearly 50 years I have a large inventory of miniture type tools. One such tool is called a beading tool. It is used to cleanup balls and beads on jewelry. It has a round wood handle about 1 3/4" in diameter with an assortment of different sized interchangeable bits. The bits are circular and concave with a sharp edge. You select the correct size bit that matches the size of the perfs on the stamp to be perfed. Next place a perf gauge on the edge to be perfed in the correct position. You then simply follow the perfs on the gauge one at a time pressing the tool down removing a hole at a time. With a steady hand the end result can look quite convincing but not so much as to fool advanced collectors or experts.
I rather doubt that any fakers use this method unless of course they are familiar with the tool. I have heard of perforating machines being offered for sale before but they are few and far between. As they are intended to perf sheets I doubt they would be suitable for doing single stamps.
Although sewing machines were used experimentally in the early days of stamp production, they are totally unsuitable of producing a small enough stitch to reproduce any of the common perf types. Also it would be doubtful that you could figure away of feeding the stamp to produce straight and clean cut holes.
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Carl,
This seller (in OP and aka 'British Cartel') usually has 40-50 eBay accounts. You can always tell what his latest names are once you get used to his format. Another 'tell' is that the listing location will be somewhere in USA but if you click on the feedback you will see he is actually located in Great Britain (makes for fun if you try to return a stamp). He always starts the listings $0.01 since he can use his other accounts to cover bids. Material moves a lot between his names.
His latest name is 'bank-notes' and is 'shipping' from Cardiff by the Sea, California. He has also started a website in the last month or two but I am not going to list the link.
Don
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Want to see what I believe is another attempt to deceive? Check out Ebay #391689749373. This is the second one. The first sold today for $50.92 with 7 bidders. I sent the seller an email asking if they had misidentified the stamp or were selling a trimmed Scott # 304. on the first one and they never answered. See picture and description on this one. Different picture, but same description.
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No luck with #391689749373. Could you copy and paste the HTTPS eddress?
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http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=%23391689749373&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X391689749373.TRS0&_nkw=391689749373&_sacat=0
This comes up if you drop the hashtag.
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Here are two US Scott #72 stamps with great centering, from two different dealers ... who happen to have identical listing data.
Since neither dealer will accept my bids, i'm pretty sure that they are part of the British Cartel.
Get ready for some thrilling shilling!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272515711764?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/192075963050?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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re: caveat emptor
Out of curiosity I checked both listings and even if one seller is in California and the other in New York it is too much of a coincidence that both listings have the same font and if you scroll down you also see the same font, different from the heading but exactly alike again in size and spacing,it is safe to assume that there's a connection between both of them, the question is, are you on "both" of them black list?
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re: caveat emptor
... the question is, are you on "both" of their black list?
Yes, and I presume on all British Cartel lists.
Although they have a US mailing address, they are both based in United Kingdom.
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re: caveat emptor
What is "the British Cartel"? It sounds distinctly sinister.
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re: caveat emptor
What is "the British Cartel"? It sounds distinctly sinister.
This link will give you some idea of their activities ...
http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43980
(Modified by Moderator on 2017-01-17 09:22:20)
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re: caveat emptor
Even though the title is the same, the stamps are not, so what am I missing here and have you reported any of this information to Ebay, to let them determine if there is in fact something nefarious going on here? Do you really have an interest in buying either of these stamps or are you just on a witch hunt? I have seen many dealers on Ebay that I don't particularly like, so I stay away from their items and pursue dealers lots whom I would rather buy from, thereby causing me less pain, trepidation and gray hairs
Mike.
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re: caveat emptor
Do you really have an interest in buying either of these stamps or are you just on a witch hunt?
My original interest was in a purchase, until I realized who the sellers were. Then my purpose was in showing the shilling activity which will occur at the end of the listings.
Contacting EBay is fruitless, as a host of others can tell you.
Apparently I underestimated this site's awareness of the British Cartel's notoriety.
Please google British Cartel Stamps.
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re: caveat emptor
I did some reading, if nothing else, to get familiar with the discussion on hand and I'm amazed of what's going on in the stamp world, then again since I'm a stamp collector not an investor or speculator I don't have a thing to worry about, spending few hundred let alone thousands of dollars on a single stamp is something I'll never do. I already have on my black list many collectors and dealers that charge you $2.50 to send four or five stamps and when the envelope arrives is franked with a 47 cents stamp but these guys (BCS) will never be on it. These BSC seems to be a very well orchestrated operation and I believe that those who fell in their wave probably deserve it, and BTW ebay as paypal is not going to bite the hand that feeds them, so good luck with your complaints.
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re: caveat emptor
These BSC seems to be a very well orchestrated operation and I believe that those who fell in their wave probably deserve it
If you believe that ignorant, wealthy buyers probably deserve it then I'm glad that you are a collector, not a seller.
... and BTW ebay as paypal is not going to bite the hand that feeds them, so good luck with your complaints.
I have no complaint ... just trying to get people to do some reading!
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re: caveat emptor
"then again since I'm a stamp collector not an investor or speculator I don't have a thing to worry about"
Guess again, Stamp Collector. Attempts by unscrupulous people to defraud stamp collectors have been going on since the beginning of the hobby. There are tons of forged stamps out there, with a very large number of forgeries made of stamps that are of low value. You may even have some in your own collection and don't even know it. You may be surprised, depending on what you collect.
The late Varro Tyler's book, "Focus on Forgeries" contains hundreds of examples of low-valued stamps that have been forged for the sole purpose of duping stamp collectors. Such forgeries show up in a large number of collections all the time.
Many of the forgers through the centuries were very well orchestrated operations. No one who honestly believed that they (most collectors) were getting a genuine stamp and unwittingly "fell in their wave" deserved to become a crime victim.
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re: caveat emptor
There are tons of forged stamps out there, with a very large number of forgeries made of stamps that are of low value.
In another thread I listed 8 fake or misidentified stamps that I had purchased. The average price was less then $60.
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re: caveat emptor
Many forgeries are of stamps that catalog less than $1.00.
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re: caveat emptor
update ...
The current high bidder ($865!) has had 21% of all his bids in the last 30 days with this seller.
He has had 2 bid retractions.
The next highest bidder was at 27% with this seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272515711764?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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re: caveat emptor
Rather than trying to report this to Ebay would it not be more correct to report to the Trading Standards Office / Better Business Bureau or whatever it is called in the USA.
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re: caveat emptor
While I understand that there's a wide range of forgeries of all sorts of stamps, I'm not very concern with how many I have in my own collection which I don't doubt I have but the point is that my collection is with me to stay so I don't see the need to spend a huge amount of money on a single stamp that I know it will not complete my collection when adding several low value stamps to it will make me just as happy, since I don't get rid of a stamp I don't have a duplicate of, my collection will be here when I'm gone and my wife will never have the heart to sell it. Being mostly a trader I don't feel so bad when a shipment is lost in the mail stream, and a as buyer I'm more disappointed about not receiving the stamps I was expecting than the few dollars that I spend to buy them, which has happened a couple of times in over 60+ years of stamp collecting. I've said this before but I will say it again, my collection may be worthless to a stamp dealer but it is priceless to me.
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re: caveat emptor
... I don't see the need to spend a huge amount of money on a single stamp that I know it will not complete my collection when adding several low value stamps to it will make me just as happy ...
I totally agree. I compiled a spreadsheet of all the US stamps up to 1999. Over several decades I purchased all the stamps under $50 Dealer Catalog, and then I went to under $100, then $150, etc.
It took a lot of time and patience, but I eventually aquired a collection having a Dealer Catalog value of close to $100,000.
i can't put a value on how much joy and satisfaction it brought me.
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re: caveat emptor
"Rather than trying to report this to Ebay would it not be more correct to report to the Trading Standards Office / Better Business Bureau or whatever it is called in the USA."
Sadly, a lot has been done to try and stop the "cartel" even to the point of the FBI, if I recall correctly. The man's exploits (allegedly a Phillip Ryle) were covered by the Virtual Stamp Club years ago and has been discussed on stampboards and stampcommunity since. Research the "cartel" on the stampcommunity.org website. The late Bill Weiss wrote about his exploits trying to get Ebay to do something.
http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39010&whichpage=3
A random Stampboards thread:
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=65752
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re: caveat emptor
This thread has proven to be very educational, at least for me, I wasn't aware of this shenanigans going on in the hobby, then again I'm more interested in adding stamps to my collection than the background of the stamps themselves, I guess that's why I'm a stamp collector and not a philatelist and it makes me feel good to know that some you out there share my feelings while others brushed them off, that's fine stamp collecting is a hobby and if you enjoy the way you do it then you are doing it the right way. Let's face it, there are bad mechanics, bad doctors and yes bad stamp collectors, it is up to us to set them apart and sites like this one are big help.
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12:56:52pm
re: caveat emptor
"if you enjoy the way you do it then you are doing it the right way."
Exactly the way I feel... I can soak a thousand stamps ( On Paper ) and if I find three or four that I need, its was all worth the time and effort...
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re: caveat emptor
They say that God works in strange ways His wonders to perform.
While doing some research in my 'sold' spreadsheet, I came across the name of Philip Ryle, whom I recently learned was probably the mastermind of the British Cartel. Seems that I sold him a US #146 on May 16, 2016, for $65, making me an accomplice to whatever his plans for the stamp.
Where God comes into the picture is that #146 is the only stamp that Ive sold that was lost in the mail ! (Tracking showed that postage was paid but never delivered to the PO. It was the last time that we used a local dropbox).
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re: caveat emptor
Did he ask you to refund his $65?
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re: caveat emptor
Did he ask you to refund his $65?
He didn't have to ask. I requested that he wait 2 weeks to see if it showed up, and then I refunded.
Every once in a while I check up on the tracking but the status is the same.
.
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re: caveat emptor
Has anyone ever dealt with this seller? (stampseller1489710). Is he/she part of the cartel? I have been watching some Philippine stamps he is selling and it sure looks like a shill is bidding them all up to beyond what they should be selling for.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: caveat emptor
I know I sell stamps here, The average price per item is quite low, the past year, average price 17cents(I do a lot of approvals) It never fails to amaze me that people buy goods for many, many , many pounds over the internet.
I always buy my "better" goods physically from a recognised shop/dealer.
It could be my canny(mean) Scots upbringing but if I am going to part with my bawbees I want to examine the goods first. Ah dinnae like buying "pigs in a poke".
Many, many, many moons ago, when the internet was a wean(infant) ah wis telt "Only buy aff the worldwide web if ye can afford to lose either yer money or the goods cos thers an awfy lot o weegies(crooks), like ken".
Besides if you purchase from a shop you are supporting local businesses not multinational corporations that pay little or no tax, pay the minimum wage, and treat their employees as serfs.
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re: caveat emptor
Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons said 'Ah dinnae like buying "pigs in a poke'.
Aye, Laddie, a safe and sound way ta protect the goods ... but I'm not sure if Rob Roy or William Wallace would be approvin' !
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re: caveat emptor
The stamp sold for $1136, to someone with feedback of 54. The price was 36% of the seller's Catalog of $3200, but 66% of Kenmore's mint price of $1700.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: caveat emptor
Jings! Crivvens! Help Ma Boab!
Auctions are great things. I've attended many auctions and if two bidders really really want something, then awebody elses perceived value jist gaes oot the windae.
I've seen guys pay "ower the odds" jist tae mak sure the ither guy disnae get it.
I've heard geezers moan aboot prices paid.
They're normally the guy that wanted something worth a hundred poonds but were only willing tae pay ten!!
I've even seen best friends fa' oot and almost come to blows, cos one bid against the ither.
Isn't Human nature great? Auctions can be more fun than any comedy show!!
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re: caveat emptor
.
" I don't see the need to spend a huge amount of money on a single stamp that I know it will not complete my collection when adding several low value stamps to it will make me just as happy ..."
One should always do what makes them happy - unless, of course, it's illegal.
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re: caveat emptor
Would someone please tell me the motive or motives for the forgery a stamp worth less than a $1.00 in catalog values? Thanks
Vernon
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re: caveat emptor
In the early part of the 20th Century, forgeries of many cheap stamps were made for dealers to put in packets to sell to collectors. Many of the forgeries were of stamps that were harder to find despite the low values.
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re: caveat emptor
Producing (forging, faking, however described) a bogus stamp was not quite the considerable investment in materiel and skill as might be required for, say, banknotes. In the case of the pre-war Yugoslav stamps which I have had to return to several different dealers over the past few weeks, the defence of their source ("a dealer in Ljubljana") must surely have been that his productions were 'facsimiles', easily distinguishable from the real thing by having entirely different perforations.
In the shady world of forgery/fake/repro/facsimile, bogus overprints must be comparatively easy to apply. But how cost-effective is it to alter perforation measurements? Does anyone know?
.........genuine Yugoslav stamp of 1940..................'facsimile', 'reproduction', 'forgery'
Don't look at the overprint - count the perforations!
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Approvals
re: caveat emptor
What do the forgers use to create the perforations? And how do they account for different size holes and perf counts?
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re: caveat emptor
On the low end of production I guess you could use a sewing machine to produce the holes, different speeds/stitch sizes and needles would account for perf variations.
A notched/toothed pizza cutter type tool could also be used, run up a straight edge. More professionally a printing works would no doubt have appropriate machinery.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
23 Jan 2017
11:21:46am
re: caveat emptor
Whatever means of perforating a bogus stamp, the forger is extremely unlikely to have any method of changing that gadget so the stamp they produce will get the perf count they can provide, period. A committed forger of more expensive items might do some research and try to at least get close to the correct perforation count.
The same goes for watermarked paper and other more exotic technical features..
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re: caveat emptor
Charlie, what you say suggests that the King Peter stamp on the right of my post was produced in the same Belgrade printing works that produced the genuine one on the left. Perhaps it was a genuine error, more likely a deliberate attempt to create varieties.
If so, what is surprising is that no-one (least of all the cataloguers) seems to have spotted this before. There are several footnotes to stamp listings that warn of unauthorised varieties in perforation, watermark or overprint, but nothing here.
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re: caveat emptor
As I mentioned in the thread you opened on the subject of the Jugoslav overprints, Scott does list different perf varieties for some overprints of the base stamp.
Refer to your thread: https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=16344#123490
I said the following (and this was just a cursory glance at Scott):
"I see reference in Scott catalogs to 13x12.5 perf overprints for Yugoslavia. This would fit your measurements since perf measurements in Scott are usually rounded up/down to nearest 1/2 (except some situations)."
However, I did not find that specific overprint. My comment was regarding the existance of both perf varieties for another overprint of the same stamp, which may have some bearing on whether both your stamps are legit.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
24 Jan 2017
03:59:13pm
re: caveat emptor
I thought I posted a reference to this befoer, but I may have been distracted and not finished the comment;
New 1983 Official Mail error variety discovered.
" .... Collector discovers error variety of 1983 Official Mail coil stamp: The tagging-omitted error was found on a cover purchased as part of an auction lot comprising about 3,000 Official Mail covers. ...."
Okay it is not an obvious different printing and many people would pass over it unless they used an IR or UV light or were vampires with special vision.
The point is that, discoveries, in this case of a thirty-five year-old error often enough to undermine the idea that someone certainly would have noticed it before. .
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re: caveat emptor
I have played around with reperfing to see if I could reproduce convincing perforations and had pretty good luck with it. As I've been making jewelry for nearly 50 years I have a large inventory of miniture type tools. One such tool is called a beading tool. It is used to cleanup balls and beads on jewelry. It has a round wood handle about 1 3/4" in diameter with an assortment of different sized interchangeable bits. The bits are circular and concave with a sharp edge. You select the correct size bit that matches the size of the perfs on the stamp to be perfed. Next place a perf gauge on the edge to be perfed in the correct position. You then simply follow the perfs on the gauge one at a time pressing the tool down removing a hole at a time. With a steady hand the end result can look quite convincing but not so much as to fool advanced collectors or experts.
I rather doubt that any fakers use this method unless of course they are familiar with the tool. I have heard of perforating machines being offered for sale before but they are few and far between. As they are intended to perf sheets I doubt they would be suitable for doing single stamps.
Although sewing machines were used experimentally in the early days of stamp production, they are totally unsuitable of producing a small enough stitch to reproduce any of the common perf types. Also it would be doubtful that you could figure away of feeding the stamp to produce straight and clean cut holes.
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re: caveat emptor
Carl,
This seller (in OP and aka 'British Cartel') usually has 40-50 eBay accounts. You can always tell what his latest names are once you get used to his format. Another 'tell' is that the listing location will be somewhere in USA but if you click on the feedback you will see he is actually located in Great Britain (makes for fun if you try to return a stamp). He always starts the listings $0.01 since he can use his other accounts to cover bids. Material moves a lot between his names.
His latest name is 'bank-notes' and is 'shipping' from Cardiff by the Sea, California. He has also started a website in the last month or two but I am not going to list the link.
Don
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Approvals
re: caveat emptor
Want to see what I believe is another attempt to deceive? Check out Ebay #391689749373. This is the second one. The first sold today for $50.92 with 7 bidders. I sent the seller an email asking if they had misidentified the stamp or were selling a trimmed Scott # 304. on the first one and they never answered. See picture and description on this one. Different picture, but same description.
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re: caveat emptor
No luck with #391689749373. Could you copy and paste the HTTPS eddress?
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re: caveat emptor
http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=%23391689749373&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X391689749373.TRS0&_nkw=391689749373&_sacat=0
This comes up if you drop the hashtag.
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