Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Images showing width and length measurements.
Image of bottom of stamp:
(According to Scott the #594 is valued with perfs just touching frameline on one side.)
Finally image of back of stamp:
Scott # 552 Flat Plate 18 1/2 - 19 X 22 1/4 MM Value .20
Scott # 594 Rotary 19 3/4 X 22 MM Value $10,500
Scott # 596 Rotary 19 1/4 X 22 1/2 MM Value $175,000
Would some one reperf a Scott #575 imperf that has the same measurements as my stamp but not reperf the right side? Can someone with more expertise than I explain the images I have shown? Because of what I believe are ink off sets on the back of the stamp and what appears to be a lack of excess ink on the face I believe the stamp to be a #552, but the measurements and other differences make me wonder.
Login to Like
this post
I don't know much about the Washington/Franklin issues, but I don't think there is a
Scott #522
Login to Like
this post
Mel, the line on the right side of the stamp is a vertical guide line. In this case it indicated where to cut the sheet vertically during the process to cut the sheet of 400 stamps into four panes of 100 stamps. You can see what this looks like on Page 25A on the Introduction of the Scott US Specialized Catalog.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
The ink offset occurs with flat plate printing, not rotary. Your stamp is 99.9% chance of being Scott #552
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Michael, thank you for the help.
I guess I need to further explore printing and perforation information. I thought the marking on the right might be a partial guideline, but I am under the impression that even though the guidelines cut the sheet into panes, the stamps along the guideline are still perforated. I have blocks and pairs that show the guideline, but are still perforated. I thought that stamps with straight edges were from the outside rows of stamps on a sheet. Will research further. I am not talking about imperf or coils. If you have additional information, I am eager to learn.
Like you I also believe the stamp is flat plate. But I am only 98% sure. The markings on the back appear to be little blobs of ink and not what I would normally associate with the back of Flat Plate stamps.
Login to Like
this post
I believe that the discussion that we had about wet and dry printing processes enters into the equation for this stamp, such minimal dimensions can be attributed to the shrinking or stretching of the paper itself.
Login to Like
this post
Anglophile,
I do not doubt any advice I have received. That is why I have asked the question in the first place. As I mentioned in my original post I have used every means available to me for measurement to include your 332 suggestion. The stamp still measures larger than the 332. I do not compare colors from pictures or scans unless it is obviously a different shade of color and we all know that colors change based on conditions.
Your suggestion that it is 552a is very valid and one that I did not think about. The shading on the right side is still a mystery, as I have never seen a booklet stamp with that shading on any side. But, then again I am no expert and trying to learn. I would not send this stamp for a cert unless I had much more definitive information.
I do agree with you that it is most likely a 552 flat plate, but I had questions.
StampCollector,
You responded while I was typing. You also offer a valid point and one that I thought about. I am trying to find out what type of printing processes went into this stamp.
Login to Like
this post
OK folks, I may have an answer, sort of. In my copy of Johl's book, United States Postage Stamps 1902-1935 on #552 One Cent Green Booklet, Franklin. Flat Plate. No Wmk. Perf. 11.
"These stamps were printed from 360 subject sheets....... The sheets consisted of six rows of ten panes each. The plate numbers and arrows being cut off in all positions except above the fifth, sixth and seventh panes made only the following positions available:"
Johl shows 12 different positions. One, is pane with vertical guide line at right. This position shows only one time on each plate. If I am reading this right, it may account for the shading line I see on the right of the stamp. Will keep reading. Having fun!!
Oh, one other interesting thing I found. This issue is also famous for the great lack of uniformity in the shades of the various values. Changes in colors in used stamps have been found to be due to certain chemicals used on mail bags to prevent mildew. 
Still believe it to be a 552, but learning something new every minute.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I hope this will be helpful. The stamp is on a cover, and I have no idea what the catalogue number is. A dealer friend of mine tells me that she doesn't even attempt to identify Washington-Franklins. Anyway, the guideline couldn't be clearer, and of course it isn't perforated on the bottom or left:
Please forgive image quality — I need a new iPhone! (The cover is mounted in my album and I was too lazy to remove it for scanning.)
I checked my other stamps and found just one other, an imperf Washington, with a guideline.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
These are my imperfs. from the Washington-Franklin issues.
BTW, I don't think that 552 qualifies as a W-F issue.
These stamps include SL, DL and no watermark.
Login to Like
this post
Getting old is for the birds. But, you can teach an old dog new tricks, it just takes a little longer. 
True, the image I posted is not technically a W/F but a 1922-25 issue, I agree.
If I had taken time to look through my own collection, I would have discovered the following copy of a 1917 Scott #498 booklet pane.
Notice the guide line on the right!!!!. So, my original posting makes the stamp a 522a, Flat Plate, perf 11 as everyone has been telling me.
Thank everyone for your help. I will now crawl back into my cave and keep on stamping.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
This is sc#424d perf 10. Wmk 190 (1914)
Collecting Washington/Franklin issues drive me crazy, so I don't
Login to Like
this post
The Kiusalas specialists gauge is what you need to use for Washington Franklins.
http://www.linns.com/news/us-stamps-postal-history/2016/june/specialty-perforation-gauge-us-stamp-notes.html
There is at least one maker of perforation gauges these days that includes this specialized gauge.
Login to Like
this post
Here is arguably the best tool that one can have to identify Washington-Franklins:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Easy-Way-U-S-Stamp-Identifier-Accessory-1945-C-B-Charmatz-/152406664502?hash=item237c252536:g:jUAAAOSw4DJYhS2n
I am not endorsing this seller. Just showing what this very hard to find item looks like.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
That looks good Michael. I wonder where you could find one?
Login to Like
this post
I got my unexpectedly in a box lot at an auction. They have been out of production for a very long time. There is of course the one in the link I provided, if it hasn't been sold yet. You just have to keep a look out for one and grab it when it shows up.
Login to Like
this post
I find that this is the best perf gauge for everything. It does have the Kiusalas specialists gauge on it.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Yes the Specialist Gauge is indispensable for US collecting, but I use it only when needed. Most of the time, I use a crappy old $2.00 gauge.
Login to Like
this post
This is my crappy perf. gauge, I like it because if you notice it comes with 1/4 fractions.
Very handy when you have stamps like these that the perfs. are more than 13.5 but less than 14. Austria Sc# 53 six stamps six different perfs.
Login to Like
this post
The old '1847usa' website has been a part of the Stamp Smarter site for about two years.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/1847Home.html
It has many pages of good info on identifying US stamps. Additionally, new tools and features have been added including what is the simplest, easiest, and quickest way to ID those pesky Washington/Franklin stamps of 1908-1922. You can generally ID your stamp within a minute or two, there is a short instructional video on using the tool.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/features/SQL_Wash_Frank_ID.html
Don
Login to Like
this post
So this is a big area of U.S. philately that, for all the well known reasons, I have avoided completely. 1. I have always found them quite boring. 2. Proper identification always seemed like work and not fun.
I'm at a point where I'm looking for areas in my U.S. album to start expanding and this seems like a natural choice.
My questions are:
Is there a better way to approach these stamps? I'm not a fan of sifting through a pile of stamps looking for minuscule differences. Does it make sense to go after the higher values first? I dont even care about the 2-3 coil stamps that are unattainable and they wont be a part of my strategy.
Just looking for some insights from folks that might have found a way to have fun with these ugly, boring challenging stamps.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
While sorting and identifying a pile of W/F I came across what I call an abnormality. I have measured and re-measured with various gauges and still come up with the same measurements. In addition the right edge of the stamp shows traces of an adjacent stamp or line. First image is the stamp. Next image shows right side with traces.
Images showing width and length measurements.
Image of bottom of stamp:
(According to Scott the #594 is valued with perfs just touching frameline on one side.)
Finally image of back of stamp:
Scott # 552 Flat Plate 18 1/2 - 19 X 22 1/4 MM Value .20
Scott # 594 Rotary 19 3/4 X 22 MM Value $10,500
Scott # 596 Rotary 19 1/4 X 22 1/2 MM Value $175,000
Would some one reperf a Scott #575 imperf that has the same measurements as my stamp but not reperf the right side? Can someone with more expertise than I explain the images I have shown? Because of what I believe are ink off sets on the back of the stamp and what appears to be a lack of excess ink on the face I believe the stamp to be a #552, but the measurements and other differences make me wonder.
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
I don't know much about the Washington/Franklin issues, but I don't think there is a
Scott #522
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
Mel, the line on the right side of the stamp is a vertical guide line. In this case it indicated where to cut the sheet vertically during the process to cut the sheet of 400 stamps into four panes of 100 stamps. You can see what this looks like on Page 25A on the Introduction of the Scott US Specialized Catalog.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
The ink offset occurs with flat plate printing, not rotary. Your stamp is 99.9% chance of being Scott #552
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Approvals
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
Michael, thank you for the help.
I guess I need to further explore printing and perforation information. I thought the marking on the right might be a partial guideline, but I am under the impression that even though the guidelines cut the sheet into panes, the stamps along the guideline are still perforated. I have blocks and pairs that show the guideline, but are still perforated. I thought that stamps with straight edges were from the outside rows of stamps on a sheet. Will research further. I am not talking about imperf or coils. If you have additional information, I am eager to learn.
Like you I also believe the stamp is flat plate. But I am only 98% sure. The markings on the back appear to be little blobs of ink and not what I would normally associate with the back of Flat Plate stamps.
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
I believe that the discussion that we had about wet and dry printing processes enters into the equation for this stamp, such minimal dimensions can be attributed to the shrinking or stretching of the paper itself.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
Anglophile,
I do not doubt any advice I have received. That is why I have asked the question in the first place. As I mentioned in my original post I have used every means available to me for measurement to include your 332 suggestion. The stamp still measures larger than the 332. I do not compare colors from pictures or scans unless it is obviously a different shade of color and we all know that colors change based on conditions.
Your suggestion that it is 552a is very valid and one that I did not think about. The shading on the right side is still a mystery, as I have never seen a booklet stamp with that shading on any side. But, then again I am no expert and trying to learn. I would not send this stamp for a cert unless I had much more definitive information.
I do agree with you that it is most likely a 552 flat plate, but I had questions.
StampCollector,
You responded while I was typing. You also offer a valid point and one that I thought about. I am trying to find out what type of printing processes went into this stamp.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
OK folks, I may have an answer, sort of. In my copy of Johl's book, United States Postage Stamps 1902-1935 on #552 One Cent Green Booklet, Franklin. Flat Plate. No Wmk. Perf. 11.
"These stamps were printed from 360 subject sheets....... The sheets consisted of six rows of ten panes each. The plate numbers and arrows being cut off in all positions except above the fifth, sixth and seventh panes made only the following positions available:"
Johl shows 12 different positions. One, is pane with vertical guide line at right. This position shows only one time on each plate. If I am reading this right, it may account for the shading line I see on the right of the stamp. Will keep reading. Having fun!!
Oh, one other interesting thing I found. This issue is also famous for the great lack of uniformity in the shades of the various values. Changes in colors in used stamps have been found to be due to certain chemicals used on mail bags to prevent mildew.
Still believe it to be a 552, but learning something new every minute.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
I hope this will be helpful. The stamp is on a cover, and I have no idea what the catalogue number is. A dealer friend of mine tells me that she doesn't even attempt to identify Washington-Franklins. Anyway, the guideline couldn't be clearer, and of course it isn't perforated on the bottom or left:
Please forgive image quality — I need a new iPhone! (The cover is mounted in my album and I was too lazy to remove it for scanning.)
I checked my other stamps and found just one other, an imperf Washington, with a guideline.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
These are my imperfs. from the Washington-Franklin issues.
BTW, I don't think that 552 qualifies as a W-F issue.
These stamps include SL, DL and no watermark.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
Getting old is for the birds. But, you can teach an old dog new tricks, it just takes a little longer.
True, the image I posted is not technically a W/F but a 1922-25 issue, I agree.
If I had taken time to look through my own collection, I would have discovered the following copy of a 1917 Scott #498 booklet pane.
Notice the guide line on the right!!!!. So, my original posting makes the stamp a 522a, Flat Plate, perf 11 as everyone has been telling me.
Thank everyone for your help. I will now crawl back into my cave and keep on stamping.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
This is sc#424d perf 10. Wmk 190 (1914)
Collecting Washington/Franklin issues drive me crazy, so I don't
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
The Kiusalas specialists gauge is what you need to use for Washington Franklins.
http://www.linns.com/news/us-stamps-postal-history/2016/june/specialty-perforation-gauge-us-stamp-notes.html
There is at least one maker of perforation gauges these days that includes this specialized gauge.
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
Here is arguably the best tool that one can have to identify Washington-Franklins:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Easy-Way-U-S-Stamp-Identifier-Accessory-1945-C-B-Charmatz-/152406664502?hash=item237c252536:g:jUAAAOSw4DJYhS2n
I am not endorsing this seller. Just showing what this very hard to find item looks like.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
That looks good Michael. I wonder where you could find one?
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
I got my unexpectedly in a box lot at an auction. They have been out of production for a very long time. There is of course the one in the link I provided, if it hasn't been sold yet. You just have to keep a look out for one and grab it when it shows up.
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
I find that this is the best perf gauge for everything. It does have the Kiusalas specialists gauge on it.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
Yes the Specialist Gauge is indispensable for US collecting, but I use it only when needed. Most of the time, I use a crappy old $2.00 gauge.
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
This is my crappy perf. gauge, I like it because if you notice it comes with 1/4 fractions.
Very handy when you have stamps like these that the perfs. are more than 13.5 but less than 14. Austria Sc# 53 six stamps six different perfs.
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
The old '1847usa' website has been a part of the Stamp Smarter site for about two years.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/1847Home.html
It has many pages of good info on identifying US stamps. Additionally, new tools and features have been added including what is the simplest, easiest, and quickest way to ID those pesky Washington/Franklin stamps of 1908-1922. You can generally ID your stamp within a minute or two, there is a short instructional video on using the tool.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/features/SQL_Wash_Frank_ID.html
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: Washington/Franklin Mystery
So this is a big area of U.S. philately that, for all the well known reasons, I have avoided completely. 1. I have always found them quite boring. 2. Proper identification always seemed like work and not fun.
I'm at a point where I'm looking for areas in my U.S. album to start expanding and this seems like a natural choice.
My questions are:
Is there a better way to approach these stamps? I'm not a fan of sifting through a pile of stamps looking for minuscule differences. Does it make sense to go after the higher values first? I dont even care about the 2-3 coil stamps that are unattainable and they wont be a part of my strategy.
Just looking for some insights from folks that might have found a way to have fun with these ugly, boring challenging stamps.
Login to Like
this post