Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
https://www.adminware.ca/machin/m_album.htm
I am using the novice edition. That is as specialized as I care to get, my main interests are other areas of GB collecting for which I use downloaded pages from another source.
I have done a few pages and already am bogged down. My main issue is that these pages are in different order than Gibbons has in their albums. it would sure help if the Machin pages had SG #s. I know the publisher probably cannot do that but some publishers- Lighthouse comes to mind- provide a cross reference as to what catalog #s are on what pages. I have an inquiry into Mr Harris but doubt he does that.
Is anyone else using these pages and if so do you know of a listing of the contents by page giving either Gibbons or Scott #s?
Mod. Fixed link.
(Modified by Moderator on 2018-10-27 06:18:39)
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10:29:14pm
Robin Harris gave you a choice of layout; by "type" or by "denomination."
" ... Two sets of of album pages are available: organized by 'type' (that is, within each country, all '2-band' phosphors are grouped together, all 'center band' phosphors are grouped together, etc.) and by 'denomination'?...."
I'd have chosen "Denomination" as that would be close to the Deegam system which is very logical.
.
Choosing "Type" sort of marries you to some form of SG or Scott system, neither of which is based on a smooth logical methodology. At least to me.
However some time ago I tried to create a "concordance" of sorts, based on Jet Stamps price list for my own benefit. Here is the first section. It may, or may not, help you.
Where there were numbers in one column without a corresponding SG number, or vice versa, I added what appeared to me to be the logical extension using "letters"; a, b, c, etc. But at some point I became distracted.
1971-96 Decimal Values with “conventional” perforations
22 x841 ½p turquoise, 2B, 1971 ................... .20
22a x842 ½p turquoise, LB, 1972 .......... .... ...69.00
22b x842 Same, ½p turquoise, clipped perfs ..16.00
22c x843 ½p turquoise, CB, 1977 .................... ...35
22d x924 ½p turquoise, PCP, 1980 .................. .25
23 x844 1p crimson, 2B, 1971 ........................ .20
23a x845 1p crimson, CB, 1977 ...........................25
23Aa x845a 1p crimson, redrawn, CB, 1984 .......... .55
23a x846 1p crimson, PPP, 1979 ............. ... .35
23b x847 1p crimson, LB, 1986 ................... 1.10
23c x847Ea 1p crimson, RB, 1987 .................. .. 3.95
23d x925 1p crimson, PCP, 1979 ............. .. .20
24 x848 1½p black, 2B, 1971 ................ .. .20
25 x849 2p myrtle green,2B,1971 ................. ...20
26 x849a 2p myrtle green, thin value,2B,1979 . ..55
26a x850 2p myrtle green, PPP, 1979 .................45
26b x926 2p myrtle green, PCP, 1979 .......... .25
27 x927 2p deep green, redrawn,PCP,1988 .. .. .35
28 x928 2p myrtle green,redrawn,PCP,1988 .. 6.25
29 x1000 2p emerald grn,litho,p.14,PCP,1980 ....40
30 x1000a 2p emerald green,litho,PCP,1984 .........55
31 x1001 2p brt.& dp.grn,litho,redrn,PCP,1988 ..90
31A x1050 2p dp.green,litho,p.14,PCP,1993 .......1.95
32 x851z 2½p pink, thick value,CB,1971 ......... . .40
33 x851 2½p pink,thinner value,CB,1971 .. ...... .25
34 x852 2½p pink,very thin value,LB,1972 ... 1.75
34a x852Ea 2½p pink, RB, 1972 .................... 1.75
34b x853 2½p pink, 2B, 1975 ..................... . .40
35 x929 2½p rose red, PCP, 1981 ............... . .20
35a x854 2½p rose red, 2B, 1981 ............ ... .. .50
36 x855 3p ultramarine, 2B, 1971 ..................... .20
36a x856 3p ultramarine, CB, 1973 .................... .20
37 x930 3p magenta, PCP, 1980 ....................... .20
37a x857 3p magenta, 2B, 1982 .......................... .40
38 x930c 3p magenta, redrawn, PCP, 1989 ....... 1.65
39 x858 3½p olive-grey, 2B, 1971 .................... .40
39 x858Eb 3½p bronze-green, 2B, 1973 ................ .45
39a x859 3½p bronze-green, CB, 1974 ............... .45
40 x931 3½p purple brown, PCP, 1983 ............. .45
40a x860 3½p purple brown, CB, 1983 ............. 1.35
41 x861 4p ochre brown, 2B, 1971 .................... .30
42 `x932 4p greenish blue, PCP, 1981 ................ .75
43 ` x932Ea 4p pale greenish blue, PCP, 1984 ......... .65
44 x862 4p greenish blue, 2B, 1981 .................. 2.00
45 ` x863 4p greenish blue,redrawn,CB,1984 ..... 1.85
45a x864 4p greenish blue, RB, 1985 ...... ..... 2.50
45b x864Ea 4p greenish blue, LB, 1985 ........, .... 2.00
46 x933 4p new blue, PCP, 1988 ............... .. .40
47 x996 4p grn bl.lith.thin val.2B,p14,1980 .... .40
47a x997 4p grn blue,litho,PCP,perf.14,1981 ..... .40
48 x1002 4p grn blue,litho,redrawn,PCP,1986 . 1.10
49 x865 4½p grey-blue, 2B, 1973 ....... ......... .25
50 x866 5p pale violet, 2B, 1971 ...................... .25
50a x934 5p pale violet, PCP, 1979 ................... .30
51 x1003 5p lt.violet,litho, p.14, PCP, 1980 ....... .45
52 x1004 5p claret, litho,perf.14, PCP, 1982 ../... .70
53 x1004a 5p claret, litho, PCP, 1984 ................... .90
54 x867 5p claret, redrawn, CB, 1986 ............. 2.50
55 x935 5p dull red brown, PCP, 1988 ............. .45
56 x868 5½p violet, 2B, 1973 ........................... .35
56a x869 5½p violet, CB, 1975 ........................... .35
57 x870 6p light emerald, 2B, 1971 .................. .35
58 x870a 6p lt.emerald, thinner val.,2B,1973 ..,... .95
59 x936 6p yellow olive, PCP, 1991 ..............,,, .40
59a x871 6½p greenish blue, 2B, 1974 ........... ,,. .45
60 x872 6½p greenish blue, CB, 1975 ..........,,... .35
60a x873 6½p greenish blue, RB, 1977 ............... .75
60b x873Ea 6½p greenish blue, LB, 1977 ............... .65
60c x874 7p purple brown, 2B, 1975 .................. .35
61 x875 7p purple brown, CB, 1977 ................. .30
61a x876 7p purple brown, RB, 1977 ................. .60
61b x876Ea 7p purple brown, LB, 1977 ................. .50
62 x937 7p brick red, PCP, 1985 ...................... .95
344 Y1673 7p bright magenta, 2B, 2004 ............... .75
63 x877 7½p chestnut, 2B, 1971 ....................... .35
64 x878 8p rosine, 2B, 1973 .............................. .35
64a x879 8p rosine, CB, 1979 ............................. .35
64b x880 8p rosine, RB, 1979 ............................. .60
64c x880Ea 8p rosine, LB, 1979 ............................. .60
65 x881 8½p lt. yellowish green,2B, 1975 ........ .35
65a x881Eb 8½p yellowish green, 2B, 1976 ........... .45
65b x938 8½p yellowish green, PCP, 1976 ......... .50
66 x882 9p orange & black, 2B, 1971 ............... .60
67 x883 9p deep violet, 2B, 1976 ...................... .35
346 Y1675 9p yellow-orange, 2B, 2005 ................ .45
346a Y1675a 9p orange, litho ex. s/s, 2B, 2010 ....... 3.95
68 x884 9½p purple, 2B, 1976 .......................... .40
69 x885 10p brown & chestnut, 2B, 1971 ......... .60
70 x886 10p orange brown, 2B, 1976 ............... .40
70D x886b 10p orange brown,redrawn, 2B,1984 34.00
70Da x887 10p orange brown, PPP, 1979 .............. .45
70Db x888 10p orange brown, CB, 1980 ............... .40
70Dc x889 10p orange brown, RB, 1980 ................ .90
79Dd x889Ea 10p orange brown, LB, 1980 ............... .70
70De x939 10p orange brown, PCP, 1979 .............. .40
71 x940 10p dull orange, PCP, 1990 ................. .55
72 x890 10½p yellow, 2B, 1976 ........................ .50
73 x891 10½p blue, 2B, 1978 ............................ .65
74 x892 11p brown red, 2B, 1976 ..................... .50
74a x941 11p brown red, PCP, 1980 ................... .85
75 x942 11½p ochre brown, PCP, 1979 ............. .55
76 x893 11½p drab, CB, 1981 ........................... .45
76a x894 11½p drab, RB, 1981 ........................... .65
76a x894Ea 11½p drab, LB, 1981 ........................... .65
77 x894a 11½p drab, thick value, CB,1981 ........ .95
78 x943 12p yellow green, PCP, 1980 .............. .55
78a x895 12p yellow green, 2B, 1980 ................ .60
79 x896 12p emerald, CB, 1985 ....................... .55
79a x896Eu 12p Star (random pattern),1985. ..........95
79b x897 12p emerald, RB, 1986 ....................... .90
79c x897Ea 12p emerald, LB, 1986 ....................... .85
347 Y1677 12p greenish-blue, 2B, 2006 ............... .75
80 x898 12½p pale emerald, CB, 1982 ............ .55
81 x898a 12½p pl.emld,thick val.,CB,1982 ....... .75
81a x898Eu 12½p pl emerald, Double Star, 1982......80
81b x898Ev 12½p pale emerald, Star, 1983............. .80
81c x899 12½p pale emerald, RB, 1982 ............ .60
81d x899Eu 12½p pale emerald, LB, 1982 ..............60
82 x944 13p olive grey, PCP, 1979 .................. .65
83 x900 13p chestnut, CB, 1984 ....................... .50
83a x900Eu 13p chestnut, Star, 1986....................... .85
83b x901 13p chestnut, RB, 1984 ....................... .50
83c x901Ea 13p chestnut, LB, 1984 ....................... .50
84 x1005 13p chestnut, litho, CB, 1988 .............. .85
85 x1006 13p chestnut, litho, RB, 1988 .............. .85
85a x1006Ea 13p chestnut, litho, LB, 1988 ............. . 85
85b x945 13½p purple brown, PCP, 1980 ...,,,,... .70
86 x946 14p grey blue, PCP, 1981 .................... .60
86a x902 14p grey blue, 2B, 1981 ...................... .75
87 x903 14p dark blue, CB, 1988 ..................... .60
87a x904 14p dark blue, RB, 1988 ................... 5.65
88 x1007 14p dark blue,litho, CB, 1988 ........... 2.45
89 x1051 14p dk.blue,litho,p.14, RB, 1989 ...... 6.25
348 Y1678 14p rose red, 2B, 2006 ........................ .70
90 x947 15p ultramarine, PCP, 1979 ................ .65
91 x905 15p bright blue, CB, 1989 ................... .80
91a x906 15p bright blue, LB, 1989 ................. 3.95
91b x906Ea 15p bright blue, RB, 1990 ................. 2.90
348A Y1679 15p bright magenta, 2B, 2008 ............... .75
92 x948 15½p pale violet, PCP, 1981 .....,,,...,,,. .60
93 x948a 15½p pl.violet,thick val.PCP,1982 ...... .90
93a x907 15½p pale violet, 2B, 1982 .................. .65
93b x907Eu 15½p pale violet, Double Star, 1982.... .95
94 x949 16p olive-drab, PCP, 1983 ................... .65
94a x949Eu 16p olive drab, D, 1983...................... 1.00
94b x908 16p olive-drab, 2B, 1983 .................... 1.10
349 Y1680 16p pale cerise, 2B, 2007 ...................... .75
349a Y1769 16p pale cerise, litho, 2B, 2009 .. .. 4.25
95 x950 16½p chestnut, PCP, 1982 .................. 1.00
96 x951 17p light emerald, PCP, 1980 ............... .75
97 x952 17p grey-blue, PCP, 1983 ..................... .60
97a x952Eu 17p grey-blue, D, 1985......................... 1.00
97b x909 17p grey-blue, 2B, 1984 ........................ .65
97c x909Eu 17p gr blueStar (random pattern) 1985. 1.00
98 x910 17p dark blue, CB, 1990 ..................... 1.10
98a x911 17p dark blue, RB, 1990 ..................... 7.25
98a x911Ea 17p dark blue, LB , 1990 .................... 1.30
99 x1008 17p dark blue,litho, CB, 1991 ............. 1.10
350 Y1681 17p brown-olive, 2B, 2009 .................... .80
350b Y1770 17p bistre, litho, 2B, 2009 ................... 2.75
100 x953 17½p chestnut, PCP, 1980 ..................... .90
101 x954 18p deep violet, PCP, 1981 ................... .80
102 x955 18p deep olive-grey, PCP, 1984 ............ .80
102a x912 18p deep olive-grey, 2B, 1986 ............... .80
103 x1009 18p dp olive-grey, litho, PCP, 1988 ......1.00
103a x1010 18p dp olive-grey, litho, 2B, 1988 ........ 8.35
104 x913 18p bright green, CB, 1991 ..................... .85
103a x913(fl) 18p brt.green, fluorescent CB, 1991 ...... 1.20
105 x1011 18p bright green, litho, CB, 1992 .......... 1.25
105a x1012 18p bright green, litho, RB, 1992 .......... 1.80
105b x1012Ea 18p brt.grn.,litho,fluor.LB, 1993 ........... 2.50
106 x956 19p bright orange red, PCP, 1988 ........... .75
106a x914 19p bright orange red, 2B, 1988 ............ 1.50
107 x1013 19p orange red, litho, PCP, 1988 ........ 2.15
108 x1052 19p orange red,litho,p.14,2B,1989 ..... 3.25
110 x957 19½p olive-grey, PCP, 1982 ............... 1.95
111 x915 20p dull purple, 2B, 1976 ................... 1.15
111a x958 20p dull purple, PCP, 1979 .............. .. 1.15
112 x998 20p dl.purple,litho,p.14, 2B, 1980 ....... 1.60
112a x999 20p dl.purple,litho,p.14,PCP, 1981 ..... 1.60
113 x1014 20p dl.prple,litho,rdrawn,PCP,1986 .... 1.95
114 x959 20p turquoise green, PCP, 1988 ............ .85
115 x960 20p brownish black, PCP, 1989 ............ .90
115a x916 20p brownish black, 2B, 1989 ............. 1.45
116 x961 20½p ultramarine, PCP, 1983 .............. 1.40
117 x962 22p blue, PCP, 1980 .............................. .85
118 x963 22p yellow green, PCP, 1984 ................ .90
119 x1015 22p yellow green,litho, 2B,1988 ...... 12.95
120 x964 22p bright orange red, PCP, 1990 ....... 1.10
120a x917 22p bright orange red, 2B, 1990 ......... 1.45
121 x1016 22p orange red, litho, PCP, 1991 ........ 1.20 ````````
350A Y1688 22p drab, 2B, 2009 ......... ............ .85
350AcY1774 22p olive-brown, litho, 2B, 2009 ..... . 2.95
122 x965 23p brown red, PCP, 1983 .................. 1.45
123 x966 23p bright green, PCP, 1988 ............... 1.25
124 x967 24p violet, PCP, 1984 ......................... 1.50
125 x968 24p Indian red, PCP, 1989 .................. 1.95
126 x969 24p chestnut, PCP, 1991 ....................... .95
127 x1017 24p chestnut, litho, PCP, 1992 ............ 1.20
127a x1018 24p chestnut, litho, 2B, 1992 .............. 1.75
128 x1053 24p chestnut,litho,p.14, PCP, 1993 .... 1.45
129 x970 25p purple, PCP, 1981 ....................... 1.00
129A x917a 25p rose red, 2B, 1996 ..................... 14.25
130 x971 26p rosine, PCP, 1982 ........................ 1.00
130a x918 26p rosine, 2B, 1987 ........................... 8.00
131 x971b 26p rosine, redrawn, PCP, 1987 ......,... 3.95
132 x972 26p drab, PCP, 1990 ........,.,.,.,............ 1.45
133 x973 27p chestnut, PCP, 1988 ..................... 1.45
134 x974 27p violet, PCP, 1990 ......................... 1.45
135 x975 28p deep violet, PCP, 1983 ................ 1.25
136 x976 28p ochre, PCP, 1988 ......................... 1.45
137 x977 28p deep bluish grey, PCP, 1991 ........ 1.45
138 x978 29p ochre brown, PCP, 1982 .............. 1.75
139 x979 29p deep mauve, PCP, 1989 ............... 1.95
140 x1054 29p dp.mauve,litho,p.14, 2B, 1989 ..... 3.95
142a x1055 29p dp.mauve,litho,p.14, PCP, 1990 ... 6.25
141 x980 30p deep olive grey, PCP, 1989 .......... 1.45
142 x981 31p purple, PCP, 1983 ........................ 1.40
142a x919 31p purple, 2B, 1986 ......................... 16.50
143 x982 31p ultramarine, PCP, 1990 ................ 1.90
144 x1056 31p ultra.,litho, p.14, PCP, 1990 ........ 2.25
145 x983 32p greenish blue, PCP, 1988 ............. 1.70
146 x984 33p emerald, PCP, 1990 ..................... 1.65
146a x1019 33p emerald, litho, PCP, 1991 ............ 3.25
147 x1020 33p emerald, litho, 2B, 1992 .............. 2.50
147a x1020 33p emld,litho,fluorescent 2B,1993 .... 2.75
148 x1057 33p emerald,litho, p.14, PCP, 1991 .... 2.45
149 x985 34p ochre brown, PCP, 1984 .............. 1.60
149a x920 34p ochre brown, 2B, 1985 ................. 7.00
150 x1021 34p ochre brown, litho, 2B, 1988 ...... 11.45
151 x986 34p deep bluish grey, PCP, 1989 ......... 1.95
152 x987 34p deep mauve, PCP, 1991 ................. 1.95
153 x988 35p sepia, PCP, 1988 ............................ 1.95
154 x989 35p yellow, PCP, 1991 ......................... 1.95
351 Y1700 35p sepia, 2B, 2004 .......... ........... 1.85
352 Y1701 35p yellow-olive, CB, 2005 .................. 1.55
155 x990 37p rosine, PCP, 1989 .......................... 1.95
353 Y1705 37p brown-olive, CB, 2006 .................. 1.75
156 x991 39p bright mauve, PCP, 1991 ............... 2.10
157 x1058 39p brt.mauve,litho,p.14, PCP,1991 .... 2.50
158 x1022 39p bright mauve, litho,2B, 1992 ......... 2.50
158a x1022 39p brt.mauve,litho,fluor.2B,1993 ....... 2.95
354 Y1709 39p grey, 2B, 2004 ............................... 1.95
355 Y1711 40p turquoise-blue, 2B, 2004 ............... 1.95
304 2297 42p deep olive-grey, 2B, 2002 ............. 6.95
358 Y1718 43p emerald, 2B, 2004 ......................... 2.25
359 Y1720 44p bright blue, 2B, 2006 .................... 2.20
361 Y1722 46p yellow, 2B, 2005 ........................... 1.95
363 Y1724 48p bright mauve, 2B, 2007 ................. 2.55
363b Y1781 48p brt. mauve, litho, 2B, 2009 ............ 5.45
364 Y1725 49p red-brown, 2B, 2006 ..................... 2.25
159 x921 50p ochre brown, 2B, 1977 .................. 2.45
159a x992 50p ochre brown, no phosphor, 1980 ... 2.45
160 x993* 50p ochre,redrawn,no phosphor,1990 .. 3.25
160a x922 50p ochre, redrawn, 2B, 1990 .............. 5.75
161a x991a* 50p ochre, redrawn, PCP, 1992 ............ 4.40
365 Y1727 50p grey, 2B, 2007 ............................... 2.25
365a Y1782 50p grey, litho, 2B, 2009 ...................... 5.40
366 Y1728 54p red-brown, 2B, 2007 ..................... 2.20
366B Y1783 54p litho, Sc. Type b/SG T.III, 2010 .... 5.95
367 Y1729 56p yellow-olive, 2B, 2008 .................. 2.25
368 Y1731 62p rosine, 2B, 2009 ............................. 2.25
368a Y1786 62p rosine, litho, 2B, 2009 .................... 3.75
306 2298 68p grey-brown, 2B, 2002 .................... 6.95
370 Y1737 72p rosine, 2B, 2006 ............................. 2.90
161 x1023 75p black, litho, perf. 14, 1980 ............ 3.75
162 x1023a 75p black, litho, 1984 ........................... 3.90
163 x1024 75p grey&black,redrawn,litho,1988 ... 11.00
164 x994* 75p grey-black, redrawn, 1988 .............. 3.95
371 Y1738 78p emerald, 2B, 2007 ........................... 3.40
372 Y1739 81p turquoise-blue, 2B, 2008 ................ 3.25
372A Y1741 90p ultramarine, 2B, 2009 ..................... 3.25
372Ab Y1789 90p bright blue, litho, 2B, 2009 ............. 6.25
*************************************
Inserting the list into the SoR format jumbles the columns so you would haven to copy it as it is and then restore (Realign) the spacing.
There is a further list of issues with elliptical perfs and computer engraved, so my next step would have been to insert these values by denomination into, for example, the 1p crimson of the regular decimals. (Conventional perfs) so that segment might look like this;
22 x841 ½p turquoise, 2B, 1971 ................... .20
22a x842 ½p turquoise, LB, 1972 .......... .... ...69.00
22b x842 Same, ½p turquoise, clipped perfs ..16.00
22c x843 ½p turquoise, CB, 1977 .................... ...35
22d x924 ½p turquoise, PCP, 1980 .................. .25
23 x844 1p crimson, 2B, 1971 ........................ .20
23a x845 1p crimson, CB, 1977 ...........................25
23Aa x845a 1p crimson, redrawn, CB, 1984 .......... .55
23a x846 1p crimson, PPP, 1979 ............. ... .35
23b x847 1p crimson, LB, 1986 ................... 1.10
23c x847Ea 1p crimson, RB, 1987 .................. .. 3.95
23d x925 1p crimson, PCP, 1979 ............. .. .20
199 Y1667 1p crimson, 2B, 1993 ................... .25
200 Y1760 1p lake, litho, 2B, 1996 ............... .90
245 Y1667 1p crimson, 2B, 1997 ................. $ .20
245aY1761 1p reddish purple,litho,2B,2009 .. 3.50
24 x848 1½p black, 2B, 1971 ................ .. .20
And so on .....ad infinitum
Once all the ellipticals are in place, you can see what the SG numbers would look like. I was planning on eliminating the first columns and add a simple; 1, 2, 3, sequence.that might allow a direct comparison between Deegams numbers and SG's insanity.
But that is still a work in progress and might eventually be a waste if some new significant variety is issued with some new added Letter designation.
(I must have been dozing at the keyboard last night, but now the spelling is closer to correct. )
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Wow!! What a helpful response, thanks!
I perhaps erred in not going with the pages arranged by denomination. I can always spring for the ink and paper and do a set in that format, it certainly would simplify things as I can see now.
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As a "used" Machin collector using blank album pages written up, I would suggest that arranging by value is the simplest and most logical method.
I arrange each issue in roughly chronological order, except that Photo and Litho are seperated into different sections.Usually (but not always ), 2-band, 1-band,and all-over operate within seperate time-periods for each value. However coil and booklet stamps sometimes appear out of sequence. I keep the coil and booklet stamps following the equivalent sheet stamps. Similarly OCP,FCP,PCP and ACP normally appear in the same manner, as do elliptical perforations and security printing.
The thing is that while this is a general rule for each individual value, different values do not correspond one with another - additionally some values/colours have only one variety while the low and commonly used values have many. All this means that each value/colour needs it's own treatment.
Most catalogues have their own way of setting out this - additionally some catalogues have different details to others, and shades are often not mentioned at all.
I use SG specialised, Connoirsseur and the Adminware on-line. However to get the full picture I have transcribed the relevant info by pen and paper to get all the info in one place. This coupled with (often damaged) reference stamps means that I can easily arrange my collection into my chosen format. I would like Deegam but my Financial Advisor/She who must be obeyed will not countenance this at present!
Machin collecting is seriously addictive, and provided one doesn't get too hung up about not having the most expensive items must be one of the cheapest way to collect stamps there is. However the drawback is that it is highly concentration-intense, and too much time spent at one time is counter-productive, so you have to have other philatelic interests for light relief.
Malcolm
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03:26:28pm
".... I would suggest that arranging by value is the simplest and most logical method....."
If you want to play Machin Stamps, Malcolm's advice should be written in the front of your Machin binder.
"....Most catalogues have their own way of setting out this...."
Systems that they guard religiously.
additionally some catalogues have different details to others,
making exact correlation impossible.
" .... and shades are often not mentioned at all....."
because unlike the value, and usually the date of issue, shades are ever more subjective.
".... Machin collecting is seriously addictive,...."
Absolutely, and all the background details, techniques, and philatelic technology that I have learned from the Deegam Handbook apply to stamp production world wide.
Meanwhile, here are three links that explain some of the ideas that you may find useful.
ClickHERE
or HERE
and definitely click HERE
Shameless Plug;
Plus, just as a point of information, the Complete Deegam Handbook is available from the author, a Stamporama member, for about £40.oo (about $50.oo), shipping inlcuded. Search Deegam Publications.
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A very basic album in color
http://www.adminware.ca/album/machin/machin-basic.pdf
(Modified by Moderator on 2018-10-27 06:25:23)
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you can relate machins in Harris albums to deegam # by matching the value and dates of issue... similarly with SG #s
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I am just getting around to putting the used Machins in order (sort of) and not sure whether I want to go whole hog with Deegam or use one of Adminwares ready made solutions or use Clive's excellent program, a couple of which pages, that I have put together, are below.
I know this is a constant problem but I would appreciate thoughts on which direction to progress, I'm beginning to think that Vario style sheets will probably win for ease of change but not yet convinced.
Reckon that sorting by value is probably easiest, as that is how I currently have them in envelopes/glassines with SG numbers.
All comments appreciated, for better or worse.
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02:51:14am
First as to Vario Pages. They work well and allow
for the easiest alteration should RM decide to print
another variant of the 2p green.
But if you go beyond the simple color/value examples
( And who can stop at that ? ) a binder of
several hundred Vario pages begins to get heavy.
This becomes a problem if you need to extend your arms
to remove the album from a high shelf or replace it
from your wheelchair.
I began to find this problematic some time ago
so I split the collection in two and later three
loose-leaf binders, and so on, and on.
I am sure that some may decide to keep the Anniversary
issues, the Double Heads, the regionals and other
special issues in different albums.
The Adminware pages are okay as they produce
three levels, the middle of which is some two to
three hundred pages. And who can avoid adding in
some more advanced variants, a few shades here and
there, a couple of SotNs and "sooner or later
you will be there.".
So if you are just starting to organise your
accumulation I'd suggest use the Vario pages
for the reference pages and then things will grow
just as the proverbial "Topsy."
II prefer keeping the regionals, the Anniversary
issues and as much as possible, all by color and
values. That means that I add the recent security
issues right in with the rest, although I do have
a special page here and there in the general UK albums.
The main benefit from Vario style pages is that
it allows you the flexibility to go along without
becoming committed to something that you might want
to change later when you suddenly discover a whole
new way of looking at Machins..
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Charlie, thanks for the comment, I have the mint GB and mint Regionals and used Regionals on Steiner pages currently (two binders) but am not liking the messy looking extras that I have to put around the page to deal with the lack of Scott coverage.
I do not mind having extra binders, as you say they get heavy and cumbersome if too many pages.
Being a used album I will not have to worry about gum types, although the backstamps could be a problem. Probably just keep them on piece.
Guess now will be the time to be checking out Vario prices, and put the order in for my Christmas present from the wife. So if anyone knows where they are being sold at good prices please chime in with details.
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11:50:23pm
I think they are fairly stable in price unless you score
a bargain from a dealer selling used sheets.
I did get a bag of them years ago for about a Buck-a-Pack
(five sheets), eight sleeved, dual sided. The previous owner
must have been meticulously careful with the sheets that
held his stamps.
Subway Stamp store in Altoona, Pa., has been a favored seller
since the late 1940s when my father took me past their kiosk
at the Nassau Street entrance/exit to the N.Y.C. Subway system,
a few times a year...
One more note for any Machinistas reading this.
Subway is closing its Gibbons inventory slashing catalog prices
so about a month ago I found they were selling a 2014 GB Concise '
for either $8.00 or $5.00 so I ordered a copy.
There may be some left.
While Deegam's Handbook is the Gold Standard, the "sine qua non,"
of Machin collecting many sellers list UK stamps by Gibbons numbers.
A few other Gibbons catalogs, "Channel Islands, France, The Falklands.
slightly out of date were available.
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Below is a trial page for the 0.5p Machins, the labels will doubtless be computer printed in the final version and detail adjusted. The pens were .05 Prismacolor pigment fine line markers, archival quality. Still can't write fine enough for me though, but that could be the cheap paper allowing nib bleed.
Doubt that I have all the variations catered for but maybe the major ones. Not sure whether the back bands will be visible on soaked stamps, probably not.
Did have great difficulty seeing the difference between thick/thin values but hope I got that right.
Suggestions very welcome, all comments will be taken on board, final design is still a long way off.
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03:47:31am
A very nice start, victor.
But if you don't mind may I offer some comments.
First, did you notice the three links I included
in the posts a few comments back, dated;
12 Jun 2017 03:26:28pm. The posting starts
with five short quote-/-comments and then there
are three embedded links. (Marked "Here".)
One in particular refers to and explains the
Deegam "Profiles," which can be printed out,
carefully separated and placed just as the slips
of paper you are using.
I hope you read those pages and perhaps have copied
and printed them for easy reference.
One thing about your notes, with very few exceptions
all definitive size Machins are perfed 14¾ x 14.
On some gauges that may appear to be 15 x 14.
The exact measurement in decimalize is 14.8x14.1
There are a few, a very few, that will use either 13¾x14
or 12¾x14. So usually we assume a Machin stamp is
the standard 14¾x14 and do not write the perf out
unless it is one of the exceptions. So adding
perf 15 on the thousand or so by hand will itself
become tiring.
Also you will probably find the common abbreviations
much simpler;
NB - no band
CB - center band
LB or RB - left band or right band
WLB or WRB - wide left or right band; 5 or 6 mm wide
BLB or BRB - Broad right or left Band; 6 to 8mm wide
The center band is similar. The bands are usually
8 or 9 mm wide when applied to the sheet of paper
and are placed centered on the perf,
line, so each stamp gets half the phosphor band.
However if one of the pair gets 2-4 mm more than
it's partner will usually have less creating a
TLB or TRB, thin left or right band,1mm to 3mm wide.
That saves a lot of hand lettering.
WE, or actually Doug has created several other
abbreviation systems to refer to other situations;
A coil may be either cut or torn along the
perforations and will be so on opposite sides
giving us a stamp listed as CTCT for horizontal
coils and TCTC for vertical coils.
Booklet stamps can be identified by having either
one side cut or two adjacent sides cut which
I recall I explained in detail in one of the
postings linked t+o.
3am and I am dozing off. I'll make corrections tomorrow.
Charlie
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I just mounted my first Machins on Steiner pages but my collection is small. I had focused more on British empire.
Scott's prefix is NM and then add another letter for Ireland, Scotland. At one point, Machins must have been in general postage since there are gaps in GB Scott numbering.
I use Stamp Manage and it includes Scott numbers for some Machins but not all like the regionals. Now, I also see catalog numbers starting with X. Are these Deegam numbers?
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@ angore, think the X numbers will be Gibbons numbers (probably Y as well) but will defer to our resident experts.
Thanks for the constructive comments Charlie, helpful as always. I have considered the Deegam disc and it's profiles but not sure I want to spring for that yet. I had been working off the Adminware listing combined with the Concise catalogue.
I am sure that the slip/profile info will evolve as time goes by, I already use LB, CB, RB etc in the mint accumulation but there it is handwritten by each stamp.
Does anyone know if the phosphor bands on the back of the stamps is only apparent on mint specimens?
Still a work in progress and a long way to go as yet, but getting there, albeit slowly.
Thanks again
Vic
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Just a quick question regarding the profiles from Deegam, are they changeable or not? Unable to see anything on the website.
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11:49:23pm
Sorry, Vic, what do you mean "changeable ?"
Moveable ? Yes I carefully cut them from the page I've printed from the disc. The a series of the separate slips for a color/value are laced in the varion sleeve just as you would the hand made slips you have made. Then as the stamps are acquired they can be inserted alongside the profiles or your slips.
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03:01:01am
" ..... Now, I also see catalog numbers starting with X. ...."
Yes you will also see "X" numbers,"Y" numbers and "U" numbers.
Why , well somewhat like the fiddle in Anatevka
keeping his balance, it is a tradition !
"You may ask, why do we stay here
if it's so dangerous? We stay because
Anatevka is our home.
And how do we keep our balance?
That I can tell you in a word—tradition !!!"
The first Machins were printed in photogravure by
Harrison and Sons and for some reason were awarded
the "X" in front of what would have been the next
number in the general sequence.
Also, without anyone noticing it a tradition was born.
Numbers 838 to 840 are regular X-mas commemoratives.
The next regular number is #881 with a note that
#841 t0 #880 are no longer used. Instead they are
now the first decimal Machin #s X841 to X880.
But about a year so later they kept the commemoratives
number sequence going and continued to use the "X"
suffix for Machins.
Thus the stamp numbered #1050 is a commemorative celebrating
Energy Resources, while #X1050 is a 2p
deep green, stamp printed by Walsall, p14, by lithography.
Contracts were let to other printers for stamps
to replace stocks of useful issues, but with numbers
out of sequence, so on lists you will find a series
of 850+++ numbers alongside 900s and even the
aforementioned X1050. (See below.)
So some of the new numbers required received numbers
in the 900s, or 1,000s with the "X" attached.
Then around 1993 along came the idea of adding an
elliptical perf on either side and Gibbons left room
starting them off around #Y1667
To make things even more interesting they had numbered
the 1st and 2nd NVIs in the 1400s to 1600s, but with no suffix.
Another change came with the introduction of the
"?" and "u" shaped slit die cuts into the paper.
Cleverly those stamps got the suffix "U" perhaps due to the
"?" and "u" slits resembling horseshoes..
Those numbers run in the 2900s and up.
All those seat of the pants numbering gave us a sequence of he 2p green hat runs like this;
___________________________________
x849.....2p myrtle green, 2B,1971
x849a....2p myrtle green, thin value,2B,1979
x850.....2p myrtle green, PPP, 1979
x926.....2p myrtle green, PCP, 1979
x1000....2p emerald grn, litho,p.14,PCP,1980
x1000a...2p emerald green, litho,PCP,1984
x1001....2p brt& dp.grn, litho,redrn,PCP,1984
x927.....2p deep green, redrawn,PCP,1988
x928.....2p myrtle green, redrawn,PCP,1988
x1050....2p dp.green, litho,p.14,PCP,1993
Y1668....2p deep green, EP, 2B, 1995
Y1668....2p deep green, 2B,1995
Y1668....2p deep green, EP, CE, 2B, 1997
U2992....2p Deep Green, gravure,2b,SA,EP, 2011
U2921....2p deep green, gravure,2b,SA,EP,O/P 2013
U3011....2p deep green, gravure,2B, SA,MPIL, 2013
______________________________________
If that hasn't confused everyone, I am a failure.
The numbers jump all over the place. And that is
but one color/value, still being printed for use
as a make-up value.The value and color are helpful,
and the years are a good guide to how they could
look arranged side by side.
Many album pages suggest grouping by suffix,
however then you have an issue such as the 1p crimson,
this 2p green and the 10p, sort of tan, all over the album.
My preference is to group them this way, which aligns itself
with the Deegam System.
Be aware that just about every one of the 2p stamps
listed above can be divided further into several easy
variants which you will find as you develop your collection.
E.g.; the 2B stamps are often found, BBL, BBR, or
a broad central band, PCP1 or PCP2 (which are a matter
of subjective glossiness.), shades, which can be quite
striking as well, and both coil stamps and booklet examples.
I think I traced Gibbon's number trail, but others may have
things to add.
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03:19:17am
Just an afterthought; Gibbons uses a slightly
different system in its "Specialized" Vol Four
which deals with decimal Machins in great detail,
but was rife with errors when last published.
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Charlie, by changeable I meant can the detail be amended or added to on the slips, or is it fixed within the program.
I ordered the disc on Sunday as an early Christmas present. Though I still have thousands of Machins to sort.
Is the very dull 2p the myrtle green or the deep green? confuses me and the adminware site does not help.
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07:00:21pm
" ... Is the very dull 2p the myrtle green or the deep green?
confuses me and the adminware site does not help. ..."
The Litho issues are usually described as "Dull".
Have you read how to separate Photogravure from Litho issues ?
Adminware site explains it clearly on this page and besure
to click their link there which will bring up a illustration of
a photo vs a litho 1p crimson.
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07:04:07pm
" ...can the detail be amended or added to on the slips,
or is it fixed within the program...."
I think not, I never tried to, but there are blanks included
that you can use to insert your own information
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Thanks Charlie, yep able to sort the photo from litho, it is probably the description of colours on the Adminware site, being different to SG. The images they show appear to look the same shade/hue to me on my screen.
Strangely, have not found any narrow 2 band values yet, but lots to go through.
Fun days.
Vic
ps Any chance you could post a scan of your 2p pages?
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I have edited deegam profiles using MS-PAINT ... change text , etc for my personal vars
deegam does not include ... many exciting vars
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Thanks Mack, appreciate your reply, especially that there are blanks.
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09:38:13am
Good to know Mack. Perhaps someday I will become more computer literate.
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Having only up to the 2013 Steiner pages thought I would use Clives program to give me basic pages for the newer years of Machins.
First task was to list the stamps by value and year as now included in the iridescent printing. Then arrange the list by Self Adhesive and Water soluble gum (the booklet stamps), trying to follow the format in Steiner of page per year.
The following images are for the 2014-2018 issues, hopefully I have not missed any. This is just basic and does not include all the varieties that Deegam might list.
Thoughts and comments welcome, (good or bad) I promise no hissy fits.
Edited to add the fact that these are for mint stamps, on backing, and in mounts, which I have just had to order more of as I had run out.
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It is good to see how others decide to collect since Scott (and therefore Steiner) is too simplified for me given so many easy to identify varieties.
Since I mounted my first Machins, I ended up getting a SG Concise. So now using SG numbers to sort.
I have made no decision on how to organize in an album but leaning just following SG Concise (maybe a few more) for depth but have not seen what additional numbers are in the SG Specialized.
Does SG number the EME varieties in the Specialized? I had looked at dealer price sheets but no one seems to list anything more than the Concise level.
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"Does SG number the EME varieties in the Specialized? I had looked at dealer price sheets but no one seems to list anything more than the Concise level."
Only have the Concise catalogue so unable to answer your question, hopefully someone will.
The new concise has an extra section with the Self adhesive varieties given "U" prefix numbers, my 2017 shows them with the applicable codes (MA13/MTIL etc).
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Try this website:-
http://www.connoisseurcatalogue.net/catalogue.htm
(Modified by Moderator on 2019-04-08 20:25:33)
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Think this site seems to list by specialized numbers.
http://www.machin-stamp.co.uk/
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Have found this site for GB Pages including Machins:-
http://www.gbstampalbums.co.uk
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Been playing around with the Machins today and managed to sort some of the used ones that have source/date codes. As usual missed a couple of spots so they can wait until the next page printing.
Nothing of any value but keeps me occupied and the brain ticking over, also how many spaces need filling. Have not removed the stamps from paper, merely trimmed around.
Thanks to Clive for the program.
Edited to adjust images.
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Sheepshanks- very nice pages! Thanks for sharing.
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I had finished inventorying my Machins and purchased the Intermediate Level Adminware album pages. I do not plan to collect at that specialization (between basic and intermediate) so will create my own pages following Steiner look.
I will base mine on SG numbers with a few varieties on the Adminware pages (head type, screened value, EME, etc). Adminware's pages are in denomination order first so standard perf is with elliptical but I will follow SG X, Y, etc groupings and SG colors.
It has been a quick deep dive.
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Have finally managed to get the SG X and Y Machin pages designed using Clives program and show a few of them below.
Some values are split over 2 pages while some values (20.5, 30 32p) have a page with only one stamp.
I have not allowed for direction of printing but have left spaces for selvedge edge, underprints and perf and printing variations.
If anyone would like a copy as PDF or text file please let me know. With the text file you can alter to suit your system or layout. Comprises about 56 pages.
These were designed for used stamps rather than mint.
Not perfect but a start.
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You are definitely going into the specialized aspect with so many varieties of the 9p. I do not plan to get that in depth.
Enjoy!
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"Have finally managed to get the SG X and Y Machin pages designed using Clives program and show a few of them below.
....
If anyone would like a copy as PDF or text file please let me know. With the text file you can alter to suit your system or layout. Comprises about 56 pages.
These were designed for used stamps rather than mint.
Not perfect but a start."
Just a heads up for anyone who would like a copy of the Machin pages created by sheepshanks.
The SG X and Y pages as described here as well as a set of pages for Security Machins from 2010 to 2018 are now available for download from http://www.thestampweb.com/albums.html.
Thanks to sheepshanks the pages can be downloaded as PDFs or text files for easy modification.
Clive
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There are a couple of missing pages for half pence values but I'll send them onto Clive for adding to the website.
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Interesting that each page is a separate PDF.
When I close the PDF in Acrobat Reader I get a pop up asking if I want to save changes.
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As someone aspiring to be specialist Machin collector ( not there yet ) I have to say that printed pages of any type don't do it for me.
There are so many ways to collect Machins beyond the basic ( probably as many ways to collect as there are collectors !). We all collect in a different way, or at the very least with a different emphasis. I collect unlisted shades, as well as booklet and coil stamps and printing flaws in addition to the "standard" variations. I can't collect in "tramlines", and much of the used stuff which turns up does not appear in most catalogues anyway - so it has to be handwritten pages for me ( Luddite that I am !).
All my stamps are mounted in face value order, then approx. by date,( but all stamps with 2 band phosphor banding are mounted in succession, followed by centre band etc ) Litho, and security perfs, NVI and Jubilee issues etc are kept discrete ( litho follows the end of the equivalent typo stamps of the same value and colour). Booklet and coil stamps always follow the equivalent sheet stamps. Non-flaw shade differences are kept together for ease of comparison and flaws follow. It is quite complex but totally logical. In my opinion you have to go by face value order, as some stamps ( low value and standard letter rate stamps ) appear in dozens of variations over many years while others for specific rates only appear in one or two versions over a very short period - keeping all the values of one layout/phosphor together makes the whole thing look clumsy
I tend to omit some of the stuff which only exists in quantity mint, and which I am never likely to find ( prestige sheets etc), but there is a realisation that extra pages can be inserted in the unlikely event that one might turn up in Kiloware.
I think anyone collecting Machins in any depth needs to think about what they want to collect then design a layout ( or find printed pages ) to suit . What you should emphatically not do is let a catalogue or printed album decide what you collect. The same applies to any collection beyond the absolute basic. One of the joys of stamp collecting for me is a voyage of discovery, and slavingly following a catalogue ( other than as a departure point for the journey ) takes away much of the intellectual satisfaction.
End of lecture..
Malcolm
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03:31:04am
" ... What you should emphatically not do
is let a catalogue or printed album decide
what you collect.
The same applies to any collection beyond
the absolute basic. ... "
By "Any collection" I am sure Malcolm means
of any issue or any country.
Just remember it is your collection
for your own personal pleasure and satisfaction.
Don't be a slave to other people's opinions.
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I am yet another of those who feels it's time to start putting my Machins in an album. I will use the AlbumEasy software from Clive. I was thinking in dividing the album into sections similar to SG Concise catalogue and then by value.
The small problem in doing this is while our queen is alive there are more Machin issues to come, but I was hoping the first section of the album could be completed now. So a question to the experts. Have standard perforation water activated gum Machins stopped being produced? If the answer is yes, what was the final year of issue?
I am lucky as the first page will not be so hard. In the 70s during a period when I was collecting I found a used ½p left side band in some GB kiloware. Back then it was a valuable find, in fact probably more so than today allowing for inflation. Looking at an old 1990 SG catalogue used price of £25 and a 2015 price of £30 I guess there were more of them collected than first thought.
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The WAG stamps usually come from prestige booklets so they will still be issued as and when new booklets are produced..
The halfpence left band is currently valued in the 2019 Concise at £25.00.
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Thanks sheepshanks for the bad news;-) Do the prestige booklet stamps still have the standard perforations or do they have the elliptical perforation? If WAG issues with standard perforations were no longer being produced that would allow completion of the first and fairly large section of the album providing I could find the stamps of course.
Funny how that ½p left band never rose with inflation. £25 puts it back to the 1990 price. There must be a story there.
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I do not believe that any Standard perf Machins are or have been produced for years. All Machins now have background security printing and elliptical side perfs and U cuts.
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Thanks again sheepshanks, that was what I was hoping to hear. I have a lot of the issues from and before the nineties and a mass of kiloware from that period.
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The more I deal with them the SG Concise grouping is good as it represents eras in Machins. Under each you can do by denomination, printer, and all the other print details.
1. predecimal
2 decimal - standard perfs (SG X, some NVI)
3. decimal - elliptical (SG Y, some NVI)
4. Millenniums
5. decimal - security features (SG U) - will not focus on these
Groups 1 to 4 should be very stable and I plan to focus on these.
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Angore that sounds about right. I will leave 1 (the predecimals) in my SG Windsor album and start on 2 (the decimals with standard perfs).
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Adding to Charlie's comment about not being slaves to anyone else's opinions I would add ..especially not catalogue editors !! You can of course collect according to the catalogue, but that should be your decision and not the catalogue. Perhaps my original comment would have better said "just because it is a catalogue" after the sentence commencing "what you emphatically should not do". It obviously then changes the whole tone of my statement, making it much less dogmatic.
I blame advancing old age myself, together with different country's interpretation of what constitutes English !!
Malcolm
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06:13:43am
"... different country's interpretation of what constitutes English !! ..."
Surely not !!!
Pray tell, how could such a calamity have occurred.
"divided by a common language "
What clever turn of phrase.
(Yes: GBS)
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Have at last managed to get some of the NVI Machins sorted and onto pages, using Clive's Program. Not sure yet if I want to use the TCTT type notation or ICTT where the "I" stands for imperf and the "C" for cut as the two are, in my opinion, different beasts.
Now to go through the thousands still on paper to find the missing ones.
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I am just commencing transfer of my Machin stamps from a Windsor Album into the Machin album as sold by Robin Harris:
https://www.adminware.ca/machin/m_album.htm
I am using the novice edition. That is as specialized as I care to get, my main interests are other areas of GB collecting for which I use downloaded pages from another source.
I have done a few pages and already am bogged down. My main issue is that these pages are in different order than Gibbons has in their albums. it would sure help if the Machin pages had SG #s. I know the publisher probably cannot do that but some publishers- Lighthouse comes to mind- provide a cross reference as to what catalog #s are on what pages. I have an inquiry into Mr Harris but doubt he does that.
Is anyone else using these pages and if so do you know of a listing of the contents by page giving either Gibbons or Scott #s?
Mod. Fixed link.
(Modified by Moderator on 2018-10-27 06:18:39)
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
11 Jun 2017
10:29:14pm
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Robin Harris gave you a choice of layout; by "type" or by "denomination."
" ... Two sets of of album pages are available: organized by 'type' (that is, within each country, all '2-band' phosphors are grouped together, all 'center band' phosphors are grouped together, etc.) and by 'denomination'?...."
I'd have chosen "Denomination" as that would be close to the Deegam system which is very logical.
.
Choosing "Type" sort of marries you to some form of SG or Scott system, neither of which is based on a smooth logical methodology. At least to me.
However some time ago I tried to create a "concordance" of sorts, based on Jet Stamps price list for my own benefit. Here is the first section. It may, or may not, help you.
Where there were numbers in one column without a corresponding SG number, or vice versa, I added what appeared to me to be the logical extension using "letters"; a, b, c, etc. But at some point I became distracted.
1971-96 Decimal Values with “conventional” perforations
22 x841 ½p turquoise, 2B, 1971 ................... .20
22a x842 ½p turquoise, LB, 1972 .......... .... ...69.00
22b x842 Same, ½p turquoise, clipped perfs ..16.00
22c x843 ½p turquoise, CB, 1977 .................... ...35
22d x924 ½p turquoise, PCP, 1980 .................. .25
23 x844 1p crimson, 2B, 1971 ........................ .20
23a x845 1p crimson, CB, 1977 ...........................25
23Aa x845a 1p crimson, redrawn, CB, 1984 .......... .55
23a x846 1p crimson, PPP, 1979 ............. ... .35
23b x847 1p crimson, LB, 1986 ................... 1.10
23c x847Ea 1p crimson, RB, 1987 .................. .. 3.95
23d x925 1p crimson, PCP, 1979 ............. .. .20
24 x848 1½p black, 2B, 1971 ................ .. .20
25 x849 2p myrtle green,2B,1971 ................. ...20
26 x849a 2p myrtle green, thin value,2B,1979 . ..55
26a x850 2p myrtle green, PPP, 1979 .................45
26b x926 2p myrtle green, PCP, 1979 .......... .25
27 x927 2p deep green, redrawn,PCP,1988 .. .. .35
28 x928 2p myrtle green,redrawn,PCP,1988 .. 6.25
29 x1000 2p emerald grn,litho,p.14,PCP,1980 ....40
30 x1000a 2p emerald green,litho,PCP,1984 .........55
31 x1001 2p brt.& dp.grn,litho,redrn,PCP,1988 ..90
31A x1050 2p dp.green,litho,p.14,PCP,1993 .......1.95
32 x851z 2½p pink, thick value,CB,1971 ......... . .40
33 x851 2½p pink,thinner value,CB,1971 .. ...... .25
34 x852 2½p pink,very thin value,LB,1972 ... 1.75
34a x852Ea 2½p pink, RB, 1972 .................... 1.75
34b x853 2½p pink, 2B, 1975 ..................... . .40
35 x929 2½p rose red, PCP, 1981 ............... . .20
35a x854 2½p rose red, 2B, 1981 ............ ... .. .50
36 x855 3p ultramarine, 2B, 1971 ..................... .20
36a x856 3p ultramarine, CB, 1973 .................... .20
37 x930 3p magenta, PCP, 1980 ....................... .20
37a x857 3p magenta, 2B, 1982 .......................... .40
38 x930c 3p magenta, redrawn, PCP, 1989 ....... 1.65
39 x858 3½p olive-grey, 2B, 1971 .................... .40
39 x858Eb 3½p bronze-green, 2B, 1973 ................ .45
39a x859 3½p bronze-green, CB, 1974 ............... .45
40 x931 3½p purple brown, PCP, 1983 ............. .45
40a x860 3½p purple brown, CB, 1983 ............. 1.35
41 x861 4p ochre brown, 2B, 1971 .................... .30
42 `x932 4p greenish blue, PCP, 1981 ................ .75
43 ` x932Ea 4p pale greenish blue, PCP, 1984 ......... .65
44 x862 4p greenish blue, 2B, 1981 .................. 2.00
45 ` x863 4p greenish blue,redrawn,CB,1984 ..... 1.85
45a x864 4p greenish blue, RB, 1985 ...... ..... 2.50
45b x864Ea 4p greenish blue, LB, 1985 ........, .... 2.00
46 x933 4p new blue, PCP, 1988 ............... .. .40
47 x996 4p grn bl.lith.thin val.2B,p14,1980 .... .40
47a x997 4p grn blue,litho,PCP,perf.14,1981 ..... .40
48 x1002 4p grn blue,litho,redrawn,PCP,1986 . 1.10
49 x865 4½p grey-blue, 2B, 1973 ....... ......... .25
50 x866 5p pale violet, 2B, 1971 ...................... .25
50a x934 5p pale violet, PCP, 1979 ................... .30
51 x1003 5p lt.violet,litho, p.14, PCP, 1980 ....... .45
52 x1004 5p claret, litho,perf.14, PCP, 1982 ../... .70
53 x1004a 5p claret, litho, PCP, 1984 ................... .90
54 x867 5p claret, redrawn, CB, 1986 ............. 2.50
55 x935 5p dull red brown, PCP, 1988 ............. .45
56 x868 5½p violet, 2B, 1973 ........................... .35
56a x869 5½p violet, CB, 1975 ........................... .35
57 x870 6p light emerald, 2B, 1971 .................. .35
58 x870a 6p lt.emerald, thinner val.,2B,1973 ..,... .95
59 x936 6p yellow olive, PCP, 1991 ..............,,, .40
59a x871 6½p greenish blue, 2B, 1974 ........... ,,. .45
60 x872 6½p greenish blue, CB, 1975 ..........,,... .35
60a x873 6½p greenish blue, RB, 1977 ............... .75
60b x873Ea 6½p greenish blue, LB, 1977 ............... .65
60c x874 7p purple brown, 2B, 1975 .................. .35
61 x875 7p purple brown, CB, 1977 ................. .30
61a x876 7p purple brown, RB, 1977 ................. .60
61b x876Ea 7p purple brown, LB, 1977 ................. .50
62 x937 7p brick red, PCP, 1985 ...................... .95
344 Y1673 7p bright magenta, 2B, 2004 ............... .75
63 x877 7½p chestnut, 2B, 1971 ....................... .35
64 x878 8p rosine, 2B, 1973 .............................. .35
64a x879 8p rosine, CB, 1979 ............................. .35
64b x880 8p rosine, RB, 1979 ............................. .60
64c x880Ea 8p rosine, LB, 1979 ............................. .60
65 x881 8½p lt. yellowish green,2B, 1975 ........ .35
65a x881Eb 8½p yellowish green, 2B, 1976 ........... .45
65b x938 8½p yellowish green, PCP, 1976 ......... .50
66 x882 9p orange & black, 2B, 1971 ............... .60
67 x883 9p deep violet, 2B, 1976 ...................... .35
346 Y1675 9p yellow-orange, 2B, 2005 ................ .45
346a Y1675a 9p orange, litho ex. s/s, 2B, 2010 ....... 3.95
68 x884 9½p purple, 2B, 1976 .......................... .40
69 x885 10p brown & chestnut, 2B, 1971 ......... .60
70 x886 10p orange brown, 2B, 1976 ............... .40
70D x886b 10p orange brown,redrawn, 2B,1984 34.00
70Da x887 10p orange brown, PPP, 1979 .............. .45
70Db x888 10p orange brown, CB, 1980 ............... .40
70Dc x889 10p orange brown, RB, 1980 ................ .90
79Dd x889Ea 10p orange brown, LB, 1980 ............... .70
70De x939 10p orange brown, PCP, 1979 .............. .40
71 x940 10p dull orange, PCP, 1990 ................. .55
72 x890 10½p yellow, 2B, 1976 ........................ .50
73 x891 10½p blue, 2B, 1978 ............................ .65
74 x892 11p brown red, 2B, 1976 ..................... .50
74a x941 11p brown red, PCP, 1980 ................... .85
75 x942 11½p ochre brown, PCP, 1979 ............. .55
76 x893 11½p drab, CB, 1981 ........................... .45
76a x894 11½p drab, RB, 1981 ........................... .65
76a x894Ea 11½p drab, LB, 1981 ........................... .65
77 x894a 11½p drab, thick value, CB,1981 ........ .95
78 x943 12p yellow green, PCP, 1980 .............. .55
78a x895 12p yellow green, 2B, 1980 ................ .60
79 x896 12p emerald, CB, 1985 ....................... .55
79a x896Eu 12p Star (random pattern),1985. ..........95
79b x897 12p emerald, RB, 1986 ....................... .90
79c x897Ea 12p emerald, LB, 1986 ....................... .85
347 Y1677 12p greenish-blue, 2B, 2006 ............... .75
80 x898 12½p pale emerald, CB, 1982 ............ .55
81 x898a 12½p pl.emld,thick val.,CB,1982 ....... .75
81a x898Eu 12½p pl emerald, Double Star, 1982......80
81b x898Ev 12½p pale emerald, Star, 1983............. .80
81c x899 12½p pale emerald, RB, 1982 ............ .60
81d x899Eu 12½p pale emerald, LB, 1982 ..............60
82 x944 13p olive grey, PCP, 1979 .................. .65
83 x900 13p chestnut, CB, 1984 ....................... .50
83a x900Eu 13p chestnut, Star, 1986....................... .85
83b x901 13p chestnut, RB, 1984 ....................... .50
83c x901Ea 13p chestnut, LB, 1984 ....................... .50
84 x1005 13p chestnut, litho, CB, 1988 .............. .85
85 x1006 13p chestnut, litho, RB, 1988 .............. .85
85a x1006Ea 13p chestnut, litho, LB, 1988 ............. . 85
85b x945 13½p purple brown, PCP, 1980 ...,,,,... .70
86 x946 14p grey blue, PCP, 1981 .................... .60
86a x902 14p grey blue, 2B, 1981 ...................... .75
87 x903 14p dark blue, CB, 1988 ..................... .60
87a x904 14p dark blue, RB, 1988 ................... 5.65
88 x1007 14p dark blue,litho, CB, 1988 ........... 2.45
89 x1051 14p dk.blue,litho,p.14, RB, 1989 ...... 6.25
348 Y1678 14p rose red, 2B, 2006 ........................ .70
90 x947 15p ultramarine, PCP, 1979 ................ .65
91 x905 15p bright blue, CB, 1989 ................... .80
91a x906 15p bright blue, LB, 1989 ................. 3.95
91b x906Ea 15p bright blue, RB, 1990 ................. 2.90
348A Y1679 15p bright magenta, 2B, 2008 ............... .75
92 x948 15½p pale violet, PCP, 1981 .....,,,...,,,. .60
93 x948a 15½p pl.violet,thick val.PCP,1982 ...... .90
93a x907 15½p pale violet, 2B, 1982 .................. .65
93b x907Eu 15½p pale violet, Double Star, 1982.... .95
94 x949 16p olive-drab, PCP, 1983 ................... .65
94a x949Eu 16p olive drab, D, 1983...................... 1.00
94b x908 16p olive-drab, 2B, 1983 .................... 1.10
349 Y1680 16p pale cerise, 2B, 2007 ...................... .75
349a Y1769 16p pale cerise, litho, 2B, 2009 .. .. 4.25
95 x950 16½p chestnut, PCP, 1982 .................. 1.00
96 x951 17p light emerald, PCP, 1980 ............... .75
97 x952 17p grey-blue, PCP, 1983 ..................... .60
97a x952Eu 17p grey-blue, D, 1985......................... 1.00
97b x909 17p grey-blue, 2B, 1984 ........................ .65
97c x909Eu 17p gr blueStar (random pattern) 1985. 1.00
98 x910 17p dark blue, CB, 1990 ..................... 1.10
98a x911 17p dark blue, RB, 1990 ..................... 7.25
98a x911Ea 17p dark blue, LB , 1990 .................... 1.30
99 x1008 17p dark blue,litho, CB, 1991 ............. 1.10
350 Y1681 17p brown-olive, 2B, 2009 .................... .80
350b Y1770 17p bistre, litho, 2B, 2009 ................... 2.75
100 x953 17½p chestnut, PCP, 1980 ..................... .90
101 x954 18p deep violet, PCP, 1981 ................... .80
102 x955 18p deep olive-grey, PCP, 1984 ............ .80
102a x912 18p deep olive-grey, 2B, 1986 ............... .80
103 x1009 18p dp olive-grey, litho, PCP, 1988 ......1.00
103a x1010 18p dp olive-grey, litho, 2B, 1988 ........ 8.35
104 x913 18p bright green, CB, 1991 ..................... .85
103a x913(fl) 18p brt.green, fluorescent CB, 1991 ...... 1.20
105 x1011 18p bright green, litho, CB, 1992 .......... 1.25
105a x1012 18p bright green, litho, RB, 1992 .......... 1.80
105b x1012Ea 18p brt.grn.,litho,fluor.LB, 1993 ........... 2.50
106 x956 19p bright orange red, PCP, 1988 ........... .75
106a x914 19p bright orange red, 2B, 1988 ............ 1.50
107 x1013 19p orange red, litho, PCP, 1988 ........ 2.15
108 x1052 19p orange red,litho,p.14,2B,1989 ..... 3.25
110 x957 19½p olive-grey, PCP, 1982 ............... 1.95
111 x915 20p dull purple, 2B, 1976 ................... 1.15
111a x958 20p dull purple, PCP, 1979 .............. .. 1.15
112 x998 20p dl.purple,litho,p.14, 2B, 1980 ....... 1.60
112a x999 20p dl.purple,litho,p.14,PCP, 1981 ..... 1.60
113 x1014 20p dl.prple,litho,rdrawn,PCP,1986 .... 1.95
114 x959 20p turquoise green, PCP, 1988 ............ .85
115 x960 20p brownish black, PCP, 1989 ............ .90
115a x916 20p brownish black, 2B, 1989 ............. 1.45
116 x961 20½p ultramarine, PCP, 1983 .............. 1.40
117 x962 22p blue, PCP, 1980 .............................. .85
118 x963 22p yellow green, PCP, 1984 ................ .90
119 x1015 22p yellow green,litho, 2B,1988 ...... 12.95
120 x964 22p bright orange red, PCP, 1990 ....... 1.10
120a x917 22p bright orange red, 2B, 1990 ......... 1.45
121 x1016 22p orange red, litho, PCP, 1991 ........ 1.20 ````````
350A Y1688 22p drab, 2B, 2009 ......... ............ .85
350AcY1774 22p olive-brown, litho, 2B, 2009 ..... . 2.95
122 x965 23p brown red, PCP, 1983 .................. 1.45
123 x966 23p bright green, PCP, 1988 ............... 1.25
124 x967 24p violet, PCP, 1984 ......................... 1.50
125 x968 24p Indian red, PCP, 1989 .................. 1.95
126 x969 24p chestnut, PCP, 1991 ....................... .95
127 x1017 24p chestnut, litho, PCP, 1992 ............ 1.20
127a x1018 24p chestnut, litho, 2B, 1992 .............. 1.75
128 x1053 24p chestnut,litho,p.14, PCP, 1993 .... 1.45
129 x970 25p purple, PCP, 1981 ....................... 1.00
129A x917a 25p rose red, 2B, 1996 ..................... 14.25
130 x971 26p rosine, PCP, 1982 ........................ 1.00
130a x918 26p rosine, 2B, 1987 ........................... 8.00
131 x971b 26p rosine, redrawn, PCP, 1987 ......,... 3.95
132 x972 26p drab, PCP, 1990 ........,.,.,.,............ 1.45
133 x973 27p chestnut, PCP, 1988 ..................... 1.45
134 x974 27p violet, PCP, 1990 ......................... 1.45
135 x975 28p deep violet, PCP, 1983 ................ 1.25
136 x976 28p ochre, PCP, 1988 ......................... 1.45
137 x977 28p deep bluish grey, PCP, 1991 ........ 1.45
138 x978 29p ochre brown, PCP, 1982 .............. 1.75
139 x979 29p deep mauve, PCP, 1989 ............... 1.95
140 x1054 29p dp.mauve,litho,p.14, 2B, 1989 ..... 3.95
142a x1055 29p dp.mauve,litho,p.14, PCP, 1990 ... 6.25
141 x980 30p deep olive grey, PCP, 1989 .......... 1.45
142 x981 31p purple, PCP, 1983 ........................ 1.40
142a x919 31p purple, 2B, 1986 ......................... 16.50
143 x982 31p ultramarine, PCP, 1990 ................ 1.90
144 x1056 31p ultra.,litho, p.14, PCP, 1990 ........ 2.25
145 x983 32p greenish blue, PCP, 1988 ............. 1.70
146 x984 33p emerald, PCP, 1990 ..................... 1.65
146a x1019 33p emerald, litho, PCP, 1991 ............ 3.25
147 x1020 33p emerald, litho, 2B, 1992 .............. 2.50
147a x1020 33p emld,litho,fluorescent 2B,1993 .... 2.75
148 x1057 33p emerald,litho, p.14, PCP, 1991 .... 2.45
149 x985 34p ochre brown, PCP, 1984 .............. 1.60
149a x920 34p ochre brown, 2B, 1985 ................. 7.00
150 x1021 34p ochre brown, litho, 2B, 1988 ...... 11.45
151 x986 34p deep bluish grey, PCP, 1989 ......... 1.95
152 x987 34p deep mauve, PCP, 1991 ................. 1.95
153 x988 35p sepia, PCP, 1988 ............................ 1.95
154 x989 35p yellow, PCP, 1991 ......................... 1.95
351 Y1700 35p sepia, 2B, 2004 .......... ........... 1.85
352 Y1701 35p yellow-olive, CB, 2005 .................. 1.55
155 x990 37p rosine, PCP, 1989 .......................... 1.95
353 Y1705 37p brown-olive, CB, 2006 .................. 1.75
156 x991 39p bright mauve, PCP, 1991 ............... 2.10
157 x1058 39p brt.mauve,litho,p.14, PCP,1991 .... 2.50
158 x1022 39p bright mauve, litho,2B, 1992 ......... 2.50
158a x1022 39p brt.mauve,litho,fluor.2B,1993 ....... 2.95
354 Y1709 39p grey, 2B, 2004 ............................... 1.95
355 Y1711 40p turquoise-blue, 2B, 2004 ............... 1.95
304 2297 42p deep olive-grey, 2B, 2002 ............. 6.95
358 Y1718 43p emerald, 2B, 2004 ......................... 2.25
359 Y1720 44p bright blue, 2B, 2006 .................... 2.20
361 Y1722 46p yellow, 2B, 2005 ........................... 1.95
363 Y1724 48p bright mauve, 2B, 2007 ................. 2.55
363b Y1781 48p brt. mauve, litho, 2B, 2009 ............ 5.45
364 Y1725 49p red-brown, 2B, 2006 ..................... 2.25
159 x921 50p ochre brown, 2B, 1977 .................. 2.45
159a x992 50p ochre brown, no phosphor, 1980 ... 2.45
160 x993* 50p ochre,redrawn,no phosphor,1990 .. 3.25
160a x922 50p ochre, redrawn, 2B, 1990 .............. 5.75
161a x991a* 50p ochre, redrawn, PCP, 1992 ............ 4.40
365 Y1727 50p grey, 2B, 2007 ............................... 2.25
365a Y1782 50p grey, litho, 2B, 2009 ...................... 5.40
366 Y1728 54p red-brown, 2B, 2007 ..................... 2.20
366B Y1783 54p litho, Sc. Type b/SG T.III, 2010 .... 5.95
367 Y1729 56p yellow-olive, 2B, 2008 .................. 2.25
368 Y1731 62p rosine, 2B, 2009 ............................. 2.25
368a Y1786 62p rosine, litho, 2B, 2009 .................... 3.75
306 2298 68p grey-brown, 2B, 2002 .................... 6.95
370 Y1737 72p rosine, 2B, 2006 ............................. 2.90
161 x1023 75p black, litho, perf. 14, 1980 ............ 3.75
162 x1023a 75p black, litho, 1984 ........................... 3.90
163 x1024 75p grey&black,redrawn,litho,1988 ... 11.00
164 x994* 75p grey-black, redrawn, 1988 .............. 3.95
371 Y1738 78p emerald, 2B, 2007 ........................... 3.40
372 Y1739 81p turquoise-blue, 2B, 2008 ................ 3.25
372A Y1741 90p ultramarine, 2B, 2009 ..................... 3.25
372Ab Y1789 90p bright blue, litho, 2B, 2009 ............. 6.25
*************************************
Inserting the list into the SoR format jumbles the columns so you would haven to copy it as it is and then restore (Realign) the spacing.
There is a further list of issues with elliptical perfs and computer engraved, so my next step would have been to insert these values by denomination into, for example, the 1p crimson of the regular decimals. (Conventional perfs) so that segment might look like this;
22 x841 ½p turquoise, 2B, 1971 ................... .20
22a x842 ½p turquoise, LB, 1972 .......... .... ...69.00
22b x842 Same, ½p turquoise, clipped perfs ..16.00
22c x843 ½p turquoise, CB, 1977 .................... ...35
22d x924 ½p turquoise, PCP, 1980 .................. .25
23 x844 1p crimson, 2B, 1971 ........................ .20
23a x845 1p crimson, CB, 1977 ...........................25
23Aa x845a 1p crimson, redrawn, CB, 1984 .......... .55
23a x846 1p crimson, PPP, 1979 ............. ... .35
23b x847 1p crimson, LB, 1986 ................... 1.10
23c x847Ea 1p crimson, RB, 1987 .................. .. 3.95
23d x925 1p crimson, PCP, 1979 ............. .. .20
199 Y1667 1p crimson, 2B, 1993 ................... .25
200 Y1760 1p lake, litho, 2B, 1996 ............... .90
245 Y1667 1p crimson, 2B, 1997 ................. $ .20
245aY1761 1p reddish purple,litho,2B,2009 .. 3.50
24 x848 1½p black, 2B, 1971 ................ .. .20
And so on .....ad infinitum
Once all the ellipticals are in place, you can see what the SG numbers would look like. I was planning on eliminating the first columns and add a simple; 1, 2, 3, sequence.that might allow a direct comparison between Deegams numbers and SG's insanity.
But that is still a work in progress and might eventually be a waste if some new significant variety is issued with some new added Letter designation.
(I must have been dozing at the keyboard last night, but now the spelling is closer to correct. )
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Wow!! What a helpful response, thanks!
I perhaps erred in not going with the pages arranged by denomination. I can always spring for the ink and paper and do a set in that format, it certainly would simplify things as I can see now.
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07:32:31am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
As a "used" Machin collector using blank album pages written up, I would suggest that arranging by value is the simplest and most logical method.
I arrange each issue in roughly chronological order, except that Photo and Litho are seperated into different sections.Usually (but not always ), 2-band, 1-band,and all-over operate within seperate time-periods for each value. However coil and booklet stamps sometimes appear out of sequence. I keep the coil and booklet stamps following the equivalent sheet stamps. Similarly OCP,FCP,PCP and ACP normally appear in the same manner, as do elliptical perforations and security printing.
The thing is that while this is a general rule for each individual value, different values do not correspond one with another - additionally some values/colours have only one variety while the low and commonly used values have many. All this means that each value/colour needs it's own treatment.
Most catalogues have their own way of setting out this - additionally some catalogues have different details to others, and shades are often not mentioned at all.
I use SG specialised, Connoirsseur and the Adminware on-line. However to get the full picture I have transcribed the relevant info by pen and paper to get all the info in one place. This coupled with (often damaged) reference stamps means that I can easily arrange my collection into my chosen format. I would like Deegam but my Financial Advisor/She who must be obeyed will not countenance this at present!
Machin collecting is seriously addictive, and provided one doesn't get too hung up about not having the most expensive items must be one of the cheapest way to collect stamps there is. However the drawback is that it is highly concentration-intense, and too much time spent at one time is counter-productive, so you have to have other philatelic interests for light relief.
Malcolm
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
12 Jun 2017
03:26:28pm
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
".... I would suggest that arranging by value is the simplest and most logical method....."
If you want to play Machin Stamps, Malcolm's advice should be written in the front of your Machin binder.
"....Most catalogues have their own way of setting out this...."
Systems that they guard religiously.
additionally some catalogues have different details to others,
making exact correlation impossible.
" .... and shades are often not mentioned at all....."
because unlike the value, and usually the date of issue, shades are ever more subjective.
".... Machin collecting is seriously addictive,...."
Absolutely, and all the background details, techniques, and philatelic technology that I have learned from the Deegam Handbook apply to stamp production world wide.
Meanwhile, here are three links that explain some of the ideas that you may find useful.
ClickHERE
or HERE
and definitely click HERE
Shameless Plug;
Plus, just as a point of information, the Complete Deegam Handbook is available from the author, a Stamporama member, for about £40.oo (about $50.oo), shipping inlcuded. Search Deegam Publications.
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02:30:59pm
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
A very basic album in color
http://www.adminware.ca/album/machin/machin-basic.pdf
(Modified by Moderator on 2018-10-27 06:25:23)
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
you can relate machins in Harris albums to deegam # by matching the value and dates of issue... similarly with SG #s
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
I am just getting around to putting the used Machins in order (sort of) and not sure whether I want to go whole hog with Deegam or use one of Adminwares ready made solutions or use Clive's excellent program, a couple of which pages, that I have put together, are below.
I know this is a constant problem but I would appreciate thoughts on which direction to progress, I'm beginning to think that Vario style sheets will probably win for ease of change but not yet convinced.
Reckon that sorting by value is probably easiest, as that is how I currently have them in envelopes/glassines with SG numbers.
All comments appreciated, for better or worse.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Oct 2018
02:51:14am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
First as to Vario Pages. They work well and allow
for the easiest alteration should RM decide to print
another variant of the 2p green.
But if you go beyond the simple color/value examples
( And who can stop at that ? ) a binder of
several hundred Vario pages begins to get heavy.
This becomes a problem if you need to extend your arms
to remove the album from a high shelf or replace it
from your wheelchair.
I began to find this problematic some time ago
so I split the collection in two and later three
loose-leaf binders, and so on, and on.
I am sure that some may decide to keep the Anniversary
issues, the Double Heads, the regionals and other
special issues in different albums.
The Adminware pages are okay as they produce
three levels, the middle of which is some two to
three hundred pages. And who can avoid adding in
some more advanced variants, a few shades here and
there, a couple of SotNs and "sooner or later
you will be there.".
So if you are just starting to organise your
accumulation I'd suggest use the Vario pages
for the reference pages and then things will grow
just as the proverbial "Topsy."
II prefer keeping the regionals, the Anniversary
issues and as much as possible, all by color and
values. That means that I add the recent security
issues right in with the rest, although I do have
a special page here and there in the general UK albums.
The main benefit from Vario style pages is that
it allows you the flexibility to go along without
becoming committed to something that you might want
to change later when you suddenly discover a whole
new way of looking at Machins..
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Charlie, thanks for the comment, I have the mint GB and mint Regionals and used Regionals on Steiner pages currently (two binders) but am not liking the messy looking extras that I have to put around the page to deal with the lack of Scott coverage.
I do not mind having extra binders, as you say they get heavy and cumbersome if too many pages.
Being a used album I will not have to worry about gum types, although the backstamps could be a problem. Probably just keep them on piece.
Guess now will be the time to be checking out Vario prices, and put the order in for my Christmas present from the wife. So if anyone knows where they are being sold at good prices please chime in with details.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Oct 2018
11:50:23pm
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
I think they are fairly stable in price unless you score
a bargain from a dealer selling used sheets.
I did get a bag of them years ago for about a Buck-a-Pack
(five sheets), eight sleeved, dual sided. The previous owner
must have been meticulously careful with the sheets that
held his stamps.
Subway Stamp store in Altoona, Pa., has been a favored seller
since the late 1940s when my father took me past their kiosk
at the Nassau Street entrance/exit to the N.Y.C. Subway system,
a few times a year...
One more note for any Machinistas reading this.
Subway is closing its Gibbons inventory slashing catalog prices
so about a month ago I found they were selling a 2014 GB Concise '
for either $8.00 or $5.00 so I ordered a copy.
There may be some left.
While Deegam's Handbook is the Gold Standard, the "sine qua non,"
of Machin collecting many sellers list UK stamps by Gibbons numbers.
A few other Gibbons catalogs, "Channel Islands, France, The Falklands.
slightly out of date were available.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Below is a trial page for the 0.5p Machins, the labels will doubtless be computer printed in the final version and detail adjusted. The pens were .05 Prismacolor pigment fine line markers, archival quality. Still can't write fine enough for me though, but that could be the cheap paper allowing nib bleed.
Doubt that I have all the variations catered for but maybe the major ones. Not sure whether the back bands will be visible on soaked stamps, probably not.
Did have great difficulty seeing the difference between thick/thin values but hope I got that right.
Suggestions very welcome, all comments will be taken on board, final design is still a long way off.
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27 Oct 2018
03:47:31am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
A very nice start, victor.
But if you don't mind may I offer some comments.
First, did you notice the three links I included
in the posts a few comments back, dated;
12 Jun 2017 03:26:28pm. The posting starts
with five short quote-/-comments and then there
are three embedded links. (Marked "Here".)
One in particular refers to and explains the
Deegam "Profiles," which can be printed out,
carefully separated and placed just as the slips
of paper you are using.
I hope you read those pages and perhaps have copied
and printed them for easy reference.
One thing about your notes, with very few exceptions
all definitive size Machins are perfed 14¾ x 14.
On some gauges that may appear to be 15 x 14.
The exact measurement in decimalize is 14.8x14.1
There are a few, a very few, that will use either 13¾x14
or 12¾x14. So usually we assume a Machin stamp is
the standard 14¾x14 and do not write the perf out
unless it is one of the exceptions. So adding
perf 15 on the thousand or so by hand will itself
become tiring.
Also you will probably find the common abbreviations
much simpler;
NB - no band
CB - center band
LB or RB - left band or right band
WLB or WRB - wide left or right band; 5 or 6 mm wide
BLB or BRB - Broad right or left Band; 6 to 8mm wide
The center band is similar. The bands are usually
8 or 9 mm wide when applied to the sheet of paper
and are placed centered on the perf,
line, so each stamp gets half the phosphor band.
However if one of the pair gets 2-4 mm more than
it's partner will usually have less creating a
TLB or TRB, thin left or right band,1mm to 3mm wide.
That saves a lot of hand lettering.
WE, or actually Doug has created several other
abbreviation systems to refer to other situations;
A coil may be either cut or torn along the
perforations and will be so on opposite sides
giving us a stamp listed as CTCT for horizontal
coils and TCTC for vertical coils.
Booklet stamps can be identified by having either
one side cut or two adjacent sides cut which
I recall I explained in detail in one of the
postings linked t+o.
3am and I am dozing off. I'll make corrections tomorrow.
Charlie
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
I just mounted my first Machins on Steiner pages but my collection is small. I had focused more on British empire.
Scott's prefix is NM and then add another letter for Ireland, Scotland. At one point, Machins must have been in general postage since there are gaps in GB Scott numbering.
I use Stamp Manage and it includes Scott numbers for some Machins but not all like the regionals. Now, I also see catalog numbers starting with X. Are these Deegam numbers?
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
@ angore, think the X numbers will be Gibbons numbers (probably Y as well) but will defer to our resident experts.
Thanks for the constructive comments Charlie, helpful as always. I have considered the Deegam disc and it's profiles but not sure I want to spring for that yet. I had been working off the Adminware listing combined with the Concise catalogue.
I am sure that the slip/profile info will evolve as time goes by, I already use LB, CB, RB etc in the mint accumulation but there it is handwritten by each stamp.
Does anyone know if the phosphor bands on the back of the stamps is only apparent on mint specimens?
Still a work in progress and a long way to go as yet, but getting there, albeit slowly.
Thanks again
Vic
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Just a quick question regarding the profiles from Deegam, are they changeable or not? Unable to see anything on the website.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Oct 2018
11:49:23pm
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Sorry, Vic, what do you mean "changeable ?"
Moveable ? Yes I carefully cut them from the page I've printed from the disc. The a series of the separate slips for a color/value are laced in the varion sleeve just as you would the hand made slips you have made. Then as the stamps are acquired they can be inserted alongside the profiles or your slips.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Oct 2018
03:01:01am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
" ..... Now, I also see catalog numbers starting with X. ...."
Yes you will also see "X" numbers,"Y" numbers and "U" numbers.
Why , well somewhat like the fiddle in Anatevka
keeping his balance, it is a tradition !
"You may ask, why do we stay here
if it's so dangerous? We stay because
Anatevka is our home.
And how do we keep our balance?
That I can tell you in a word—tradition !!!"
The first Machins were printed in photogravure by
Harrison and Sons and for some reason were awarded
the "X" in front of what would have been the next
number in the general sequence.
Also, without anyone noticing it a tradition was born.
Numbers 838 to 840 are regular X-mas commemoratives.
The next regular number is #881 with a note that
#841 t0 #880 are no longer used. Instead they are
now the first decimal Machin #s X841 to X880.
But about a year so later they kept the commemoratives
number sequence going and continued to use the "X"
suffix for Machins.
Thus the stamp numbered #1050 is a commemorative celebrating
Energy Resources, while #X1050 is a 2p
deep green, stamp printed by Walsall, p14, by lithography.
Contracts were let to other printers for stamps
to replace stocks of useful issues, but with numbers
out of sequence, so on lists you will find a series
of 850+++ numbers alongside 900s and even the
aforementioned X1050. (See below.)
So some of the new numbers required received numbers
in the 900s, or 1,000s with the "X" attached.
Then around 1993 along came the idea of adding an
elliptical perf on either side and Gibbons left room
starting them off around #Y1667
To make things even more interesting they had numbered
the 1st and 2nd NVIs in the 1400s to 1600s, but with no suffix.
Another change came with the introduction of the
"?" and "u" shaped slit die cuts into the paper.
Cleverly those stamps got the suffix "U" perhaps due to the
"?" and "u" slits resembling horseshoes..
Those numbers run in the 2900s and up.
All those seat of the pants numbering gave us a sequence of he 2p green hat runs like this;
___________________________________
x849.....2p myrtle green, 2B,1971
x849a....2p myrtle green, thin value,2B,1979
x850.....2p myrtle green, PPP, 1979
x926.....2p myrtle green, PCP, 1979
x1000....2p emerald grn, litho,p.14,PCP,1980
x1000a...2p emerald green, litho,PCP,1984
x1001....2p brt& dp.grn, litho,redrn,PCP,1984
x927.....2p deep green, redrawn,PCP,1988
x928.....2p myrtle green, redrawn,PCP,1988
x1050....2p dp.green, litho,p.14,PCP,1993
Y1668....2p deep green, EP, 2B, 1995
Y1668....2p deep green, 2B,1995
Y1668....2p deep green, EP, CE, 2B, 1997
U2992....2p Deep Green, gravure,2b,SA,EP, 2011
U2921....2p deep green, gravure,2b,SA,EP,O/P 2013
U3011....2p deep green, gravure,2B, SA,MPIL, 2013
______________________________________
If that hasn't confused everyone, I am a failure.
The numbers jump all over the place. And that is
but one color/value, still being printed for use
as a make-up value.The value and color are helpful,
and the years are a good guide to how they could
look arranged side by side.
Many album pages suggest grouping by suffix,
however then you have an issue such as the 1p crimson,
this 2p green and the 10p, sort of tan, all over the album.
My preference is to group them this way, which aligns itself
with the Deegam System.
Be aware that just about every one of the 2p stamps
listed above can be divided further into several easy
variants which you will find as you develop your collection.
E.g.; the 2B stamps are often found, BBL, BBR, or
a broad central band, PCP1 or PCP2 (which are a matter
of subjective glossiness.), shades, which can be quite
striking as well, and both coil stamps and booklet examples.
I think I traced Gibbon's number trail, but others may have
things to add.
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30 Oct 2018
03:19:17am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Just an afterthought; Gibbons uses a slightly
different system in its "Specialized" Vol Four
which deals with decimal Machins in great detail,
but was rife with errors when last published.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Charlie, by changeable I meant can the detail be amended or added to on the slips, or is it fixed within the program.
I ordered the disc on Sunday as an early Christmas present. Though I still have thousands of Machins to sort.
Is the very dull 2p the myrtle green or the deep green? confuses me and the adminware site does not help.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Oct 2018
07:00:21pm
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
" ... Is the very dull 2p the myrtle green or the deep green?
confuses me and the adminware site does not help. ..."
The Litho issues are usually described as "Dull".
Have you read how to separate Photogravure from Litho issues ?
Adminware site explains it clearly on this page and besure
to click their link there which will bring up a illustration of
a photo vs a litho 1p crimson.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Oct 2018
07:04:07pm
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
" ...can the detail be amended or added to on the slips,
or is it fixed within the program...."
I think not, I never tried to, but there are blanks included
that you can use to insert your own information
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Thanks Charlie, yep able to sort the photo from litho, it is probably the description of colours on the Adminware site, being different to SG. The images they show appear to look the same shade/hue to me on my screen.
Strangely, have not found any narrow 2 band values yet, but lots to go through.
Fun days.
Vic
ps Any chance you could post a scan of your 2p pages?
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
I have edited deegam profiles using MS-PAINT ... change text , etc for my personal vars
deegam does not include ... many exciting vars
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Thanks Mack, appreciate your reply, especially that there are blanks.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
03 Nov 2018
09:38:13am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Good to know Mack. Perhaps someday I will become more computer literate.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Having only up to the 2013 Steiner pages thought I would use Clives program to give me basic pages for the newer years of Machins.
First task was to list the stamps by value and year as now included in the iridescent printing. Then arrange the list by Self Adhesive and Water soluble gum (the booklet stamps), trying to follow the format in Steiner of page per year.
The following images are for the 2014-2018 issues, hopefully I have not missed any. This is just basic and does not include all the varieties that Deegam might list.
Thoughts and comments welcome, (good or bad) I promise no hissy fits.
Edited to add the fact that these are for mint stamps, on backing, and in mounts, which I have just had to order more of as I had run out.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
It is good to see how others decide to collect since Scott (and therefore Steiner) is too simplified for me given so many easy to identify varieties.
Since I mounted my first Machins, I ended up getting a SG Concise. So now using SG numbers to sort.
I have made no decision on how to organize in an album but leaning just following SG Concise (maybe a few more) for depth but have not seen what additional numbers are in the SG Specialized.
Does SG number the EME varieties in the Specialized? I had looked at dealer price sheets but no one seems to list anything more than the Concise level.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
"Does SG number the EME varieties in the Specialized? I had looked at dealer price sheets but no one seems to list anything more than the Concise level."
Only have the Concise catalogue so unable to answer your question, hopefully someone will.
The new concise has an extra section with the Self adhesive varieties given "U" prefix numbers, my 2017 shows them with the applicable codes (MA13/MTIL etc).
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Try this website:-
http://www.connoisseurcatalogue.net/catalogue.htm
(Modified by Moderator on 2019-04-08 20:25:33)
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Think this site seems to list by specialized numbers.
http://www.machin-stamp.co.uk/
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Have found this site for GB Pages including Machins:-
http://www.gbstampalbums.co.uk
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Been playing around with the Machins today and managed to sort some of the used ones that have source/date codes. As usual missed a couple of spots so they can wait until the next page printing.
Nothing of any value but keeps me occupied and the brain ticking over, also how many spaces need filling. Have not removed the stamps from paper, merely trimmed around.
Thanks to Clive for the program.
Edited to adjust images.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Sheepshanks- very nice pages! Thanks for sharing.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
I had finished inventorying my Machins and purchased the Intermediate Level Adminware album pages. I do not plan to collect at that specialization (between basic and intermediate) so will create my own pages following Steiner look.
I will base mine on SG numbers with a few varieties on the Adminware pages (head type, screened value, EME, etc). Adminware's pages are in denomination order first so standard perf is with elliptical but I will follow SG X, Y, etc groupings and SG colors.
It has been a quick deep dive.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Have finally managed to get the SG X and Y Machin pages designed using Clives program and show a few of them below.
Some values are split over 2 pages while some values (20.5, 30 32p) have a page with only one stamp.
I have not allowed for direction of printing but have left spaces for selvedge edge, underprints and perf and printing variations.
If anyone would like a copy as PDF or text file please let me know. With the text file you can alter to suit your system or layout. Comprises about 56 pages.
These were designed for used stamps rather than mint.
Not perfect but a start.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
You are definitely going into the specialized aspect with so many varieties of the 9p. I do not plan to get that in depth.
Enjoy!
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
"Have finally managed to get the SG X and Y Machin pages designed using Clives program and show a few of them below.
....
If anyone would like a copy as PDF or text file please let me know. With the text file you can alter to suit your system or layout. Comprises about 56 pages.
These were designed for used stamps rather than mint.
Not perfect but a start."
Just a heads up for anyone who would like a copy of the Machin pages created by sheepshanks.
The SG X and Y pages as described here as well as a set of pages for Security Machins from 2010 to 2018 are now available for download from http://www.thestampweb.com/albums.html.
Thanks to sheepshanks the pages can be downloaded as PDFs or text files for easy modification.
Clive
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
There are a couple of missing pages for half pence values but I'll send them onto Clive for adding to the website.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Interesting that each page is a separate PDF.
When I close the PDF in Acrobat Reader I get a pop up asking if I want to save changes.
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08:01:10am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
As someone aspiring to be specialist Machin collector ( not there yet ) I have to say that printed pages of any type don't do it for me.
There are so many ways to collect Machins beyond the basic ( probably as many ways to collect as there are collectors !). We all collect in a different way, or at the very least with a different emphasis. I collect unlisted shades, as well as booklet and coil stamps and printing flaws in addition to the "standard" variations. I can't collect in "tramlines", and much of the used stuff which turns up does not appear in most catalogues anyway - so it has to be handwritten pages for me ( Luddite that I am !).
All my stamps are mounted in face value order, then approx. by date,( but all stamps with 2 band phosphor banding are mounted in succession, followed by centre band etc ) Litho, and security perfs, NVI and Jubilee issues etc are kept discrete ( litho follows the end of the equivalent typo stamps of the same value and colour). Booklet and coil stamps always follow the equivalent sheet stamps. Non-flaw shade differences are kept together for ease of comparison and flaws follow. It is quite complex but totally logical. In my opinion you have to go by face value order, as some stamps ( low value and standard letter rate stamps ) appear in dozens of variations over many years while others for specific rates only appear in one or two versions over a very short period - keeping all the values of one layout/phosphor together makes the whole thing look clumsy
I tend to omit some of the stuff which only exists in quantity mint, and which I am never likely to find ( prestige sheets etc), but there is a realisation that extra pages can be inserted in the unlikely event that one might turn up in Kiloware.
I think anyone collecting Machins in any depth needs to think about what they want to collect then design a layout ( or find printed pages ) to suit . What you should emphatically not do is let a catalogue or printed album decide what you collect. The same applies to any collection beyond the absolute basic. One of the joys of stamp collecting for me is a voyage of discovery, and slavingly following a catalogue ( other than as a departure point for the journey ) takes away much of the intellectual satisfaction.
End of lecture..
Malcolm
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
17 Jun 2019
03:31:04am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
" ... What you should emphatically not do
is let a catalogue or printed album decide
what you collect.
The same applies to any collection beyond
the absolute basic. ... "
By "Any collection" I am sure Malcolm means
of any issue or any country.
Just remember it is your collection
for your own personal pleasure and satisfaction.
Don't be a slave to other people's opinions.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
I am yet another of those who feels it's time to start putting my Machins in an album. I will use the AlbumEasy software from Clive. I was thinking in dividing the album into sections similar to SG Concise catalogue and then by value.
The small problem in doing this is while our queen is alive there are more Machin issues to come, but I was hoping the first section of the album could be completed now. So a question to the experts. Have standard perforation water activated gum Machins stopped being produced? If the answer is yes, what was the final year of issue?
I am lucky as the first page will not be so hard. In the 70s during a period when I was collecting I found a used ½p left side band in some GB kiloware. Back then it was a valuable find, in fact probably more so than today allowing for inflation. Looking at an old 1990 SG catalogue used price of £25 and a 2015 price of £30 I guess there were more of them collected than first thought.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
The WAG stamps usually come from prestige booklets so they will still be issued as and when new booklets are produced..
The halfpence left band is currently valued in the 2019 Concise at £25.00.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Thanks sheepshanks for the bad news;-) Do the prestige booklet stamps still have the standard perforations or do they have the elliptical perforation? If WAG issues with standard perforations were no longer being produced that would allow completion of the first and fairly large section of the album providing I could find the stamps of course.
Funny how that ½p left band never rose with inflation. £25 puts it back to the 1990 price. There must be a story there.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
I do not believe that any Standard perf Machins are or have been produced for years. All Machins now have background security printing and elliptical side perfs and U cuts.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Thanks again sheepshanks, that was what I was hoping to hear. I have a lot of the issues from and before the nineties and a mass of kiloware from that period.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
The more I deal with them the SG Concise grouping is good as it represents eras in Machins. Under each you can do by denomination, printer, and all the other print details.
1. predecimal
2 decimal - standard perfs (SG X, some NVI)
3. decimal - elliptical (SG Y, some NVI)
4. Millenniums
5. decimal - security features (SG U) - will not focus on these
Groups 1 to 4 should be very stable and I plan to focus on these.
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Angore that sounds about right. I will leave 1 (the predecimals) in my SG Windsor album and start on 2 (the decimals with standard perfs).
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11:45:05am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Adding to Charlie's comment about not being slaves to anyone else's opinions I would add ..especially not catalogue editors !! You can of course collect according to the catalogue, but that should be your decision and not the catalogue. Perhaps my original comment would have better said "just because it is a catalogue" after the sentence commencing "what you emphatically should not do". It obviously then changes the whole tone of my statement, making it much less dogmatic.
I blame advancing old age myself, together with different country's interpretation of what constitutes English !!
Malcolm
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Jun 2019
06:13:43am
re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
"... different country's interpretation of what constitutes English !! ..."
Surely not !!!
Pray tell, how could such a calamity have occurred.
"divided by a common language "
What clever turn of phrase.
(Yes: GBS)
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re: Machin Album Pages - A Query
Have at last managed to get some of the NVI Machins sorted and onto pages, using Clive's Program. Not sure yet if I want to use the TCTT type notation or ICTT where the "I" stands for imperf and the "C" for cut as the two are, in my opinion, different beasts.
Now to go through the thousands still on paper to find the missing ones.
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