Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
How does one know that the imperf stamp is not one trimmed down from the perforated issue? Here is the sample of what I have...capetown
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It is a trimmed stamp (perf hole in upper right). The #315 is the most faked/altered US stamp there is. Anthony's (eBay) sells them virtually every week.
The criteria here is easy. Simply use what any of the certifying organizations do; a genuine #315 must measure at least 21.5mm x25 mm to be considered legitimate.
Don
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First, consider that all imperf varieties of this stamp are faked until you can prove otherwise.
One way to start to determine whether an imperf stamp is genuine is to look for partial perf holes as shown in Don's examples.
Next, place the imperf example on top of a perfed #305. Align the designs on top of each other. If the perfs on any side extend past the imperf edges then the stamp is suspect. This does not mean that the imperf example is a fake.
If the imperf stamp is used, it must show a contemporary, for the time, postmark. The cancels on the genuine imperf stamp in used condition have been faked. Be aware that trimmed #305 with contemporary cancels are also out there.
Considering the value of the imperf stamp, if you truly believe you have a genuine copy, then it will be necessary to have it authenticated.
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The best way would be to collect them as a pair, although that might be hard for used copies. Also, hopefully no one actually buys from Anthony's 1-800.
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He has almost 90,000 feedback. Someone is buying from him.
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Hi Everyone;
I'm confused! The two images that Don shows are very puzzling. The top image shows
an arrow pointing to what appears to be about 20% of the left side of a perf hole.
Should there not be a similar portions of several perf holes that would have been directly
above and below the one pointed out?
Just thinkin' too much....
TuskenRaider
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Ken, take a closer look and you'll see that the edges are cut at a slight angle enough to leave the tell-tale signs of a perf.
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Hi Everyone;
Nope.
I first looked before I posted my earlier reply, to see that the top frame of the stamp was
perfectly horizontal, by alligning it with the top of the browser window. I then placed a
piece of cardstock vertically on the left extreme edge of the perf hole. Above and below
was a wide area of white space with no holes or parts of holes.
So the angle you pointed out is too slight to account for other holes or parts of holes that
should have been there.
Whatever that area of apparent radius was created by, it was not a normal vertical line of
perf holes. Perhaps someone was practicing his/her re-perfing methods, or a sloppy job
of cutting with dull or rusty scissors.
Still sortin'....
TuskenRaider
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Perf pins did occasionally get bent.
But bottom line is that if a #315 isn't at least 21.5mm x25 mm then it isn't getting a certification. Anyone buying a "#315" which doesn't have a cert, or is not a multiple, and is not at least a full 21.5mm x25 mm is buying a stamp that will never be considered a #315 by anyone else.
In terms of the number of eBay feedbacks...it is meaningless in many cases. NY Stamps has 239653 feedbacks and a 99.9% rating and yet states in every listing "Some stamps could be expertly restored or repaired."
So there have been over 200,000 buyers who think that buying 'expertly restored or repaired' stamps is a good idea or a bargain. We can't protect buyers from themselves but we can offer education. The key here is to learn about the material you are buying AND also learn about who you are buying from.
There are plenty of good sellers and venues, like this community, where a stamp hobbyist can be successful. But trusting eBay marketing fluff like their rating system and their total lack of vetting of accounts is a sure way to get taken advantage of.
Don
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A good rule of thumb with these and many other rare stamps and varieties. If the seller did not get the stamp authenticated, then it is best not to purchase.
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thanks once again for all your replies..much appreciated. Best wishes, capetown
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I think a good rule of thumb is to look at the Scott Specialized Catalog for U.S. stamps!
You don't need a current issue. Buy an old one for little more than shipping. The 2008 catalog says: "Beware of examples of 304 with perforations removed." It says the same thing in the 2016 catalog. When you see a warning like that, look at the catalog values:
Per 2016 Scott:
304 used $2.25
304 MH $60.00
315 used $1250
315 MH $325
That's not what you would necessarily have to PAY for those stamps, but it gives you a good idea of the RELATIVE value. Obviously taking used 304 stamps at $2.25 and trimming perfs to "create" a 315 used at $1250 is a good gig, but there would be few buyers at that price without a cert. The used stamp is more risky since you are trying to transform a $60 stamp into a $325 stamp, but destroying the initial value of the stamp you are working with. Only someone with sophisticated techniques would do that. So guess what? Scam artists with sophisticated techniques do EXACTLY that.
My rule of thumb is: If there is a warning in the Scott Specialized, I get a cert BEFORE it goes into MY collection! I just bought a nice Kansas City Roulette block from the APS store and sent it right back to APEX for a cert.
Lars
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Lars,
I totally agree that value plays a role in the motivation for altered stamps; so you make a great point. Checking out a catalog is always a good starting point. But we should go further than the handful of notes in the Scott Specialized because it barely touches upon the much large number of potentially altered stamps. For example, we often see low value altered W/F coil stamps; in the majority of cases this came from a collector who had a blank spot in his album and a pair of scissors. At other times a faker will ‘practice’ on lower value stamps first, especially if they are reperfing.
So it is important for the US collector to always consider;
1. Can the stamp be altered?
2. What are the potential ‘source’ stamps for the alteration?
A great book for the often altered US Washington Franklin coils is Paul Schmid “The Experts Book”. This is a ‘must have’ for anyone who is collecting Washington Franklin stamps. It calls out the ‘source’ stamps for all the alterations. Some of this information is also contained on Stamp Smarter ( http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/washfrank/d2Coils.html) but Paul’s book is more comprehensive.
But your tag line ‘Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks’ is spot on and in this case it means arming yourself with as much information as possible.
Don
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Hi Studebaker;
Yes I collect Washington-Franklins, but not as a serious study, but I just like to be able to identify
what I find in lots I purchase.
Is this book "The Experts Book", still in print, or is it available as a used book? Also do you know
where a copy can be had, or for how much?
Still sortin'....
TuskenRaider
Ooops; I just saw one on eBay for $69, and another one for $44. The one for $44 (already sold) was
located in Grand Rapids Michigan. Could that possibly be our own musicman in Greenville Michigan?
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Hi,
It is out-of-print but I digitized the book for the author so he has it available on DVD disk. I believe that the digital version is less costly than the out-of-print book. I am sending you his email address via private message.
Don
Edit; here is a sample page
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07:27:09pm
This could be tough! #305 perforated...$2.25, #315 imperf...$1,250.00
How does one know that the imperf stamp is not one trimmed down from the perforated issue? Here is the sample of what I have...capetown
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this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
It is a trimmed stamp (perf hole in upper right). The #315 is the most faked/altered US stamp there is. Anthony's (eBay) sells them virtually every week.
The criteria here is easy. Simply use what any of the certifying organizations do; a genuine #315 must measure at least 21.5mm x25 mm to be considered legitimate.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
First, consider that all imperf varieties of this stamp are faked until you can prove otherwise.
One way to start to determine whether an imperf stamp is genuine is to look for partial perf holes as shown in Don's examples.
Next, place the imperf example on top of a perfed #305. Align the designs on top of each other. If the perfs on any side extend past the imperf edges then the stamp is suspect. This does not mean that the imperf example is a fake.
If the imperf stamp is used, it must show a contemporary, for the time, postmark. The cancels on the genuine imperf stamp in used condition have been faked. Be aware that trimmed #305 with contemporary cancels are also out there.
Considering the value of the imperf stamp, if you truly believe you have a genuine copy, then it will be necessary to have it authenticated.
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
The best way would be to collect them as a pair, although that might be hard for used copies. Also, hopefully no one actually buys from Anthony's 1-800.
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
He has almost 90,000 feedback. Someone is buying from him.
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
Hi Everyone;
I'm confused! The two images that Don shows are very puzzling. The top image shows
an arrow pointing to what appears to be about 20% of the left side of a perf hole.
Should there not be a similar portions of several perf holes that would have been directly
above and below the one pointed out?
Just thinkin' too much....
TuskenRaider
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
Ken, take a closer look and you'll see that the edges are cut at a slight angle enough to leave the tell-tale signs of a perf.
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
Hi Everyone;
Nope.
I first looked before I posted my earlier reply, to see that the top frame of the stamp was
perfectly horizontal, by alligning it with the top of the browser window. I then placed a
piece of cardstock vertically on the left extreme edge of the perf hole. Above and below
was a wide area of white space with no holes or parts of holes.
So the angle you pointed out is too slight to account for other holes or parts of holes that
should have been there.
Whatever that area of apparent radius was created by, it was not a normal vertical line of
perf holes. Perhaps someone was practicing his/her re-perfing methods, or a sloppy job
of cutting with dull or rusty scissors.
Still sortin'....
TuskenRaider
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
Perf pins did occasionally get bent.
But bottom line is that if a #315 isn't at least 21.5mm x25 mm then it isn't getting a certification. Anyone buying a "#315" which doesn't have a cert, or is not a multiple, and is not at least a full 21.5mm x25 mm is buying a stamp that will never be considered a #315 by anyone else.
In terms of the number of eBay feedbacks...it is meaningless in many cases. NY Stamps has 239653 feedbacks and a 99.9% rating and yet states in every listing "Some stamps could be expertly restored or repaired."
So there have been over 200,000 buyers who think that buying 'expertly restored or repaired' stamps is a good idea or a bargain. We can't protect buyers from themselves but we can offer education. The key here is to learn about the material you are buying AND also learn about who you are buying from.
There are plenty of good sellers and venues, like this community, where a stamp hobbyist can be successful. But trusting eBay marketing fluff like their rating system and their total lack of vetting of accounts is a sure way to get taken advantage of.
Don
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re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
A good rule of thumb with these and many other rare stamps and varieties. If the seller did not get the stamp authenticated, then it is best not to purchase.
1 Member
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Login to Like.
11:50:31am
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
thanks once again for all your replies..much appreciated. Best wishes, capetown
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
I think a good rule of thumb is to look at the Scott Specialized Catalog for U.S. stamps!
You don't need a current issue. Buy an old one for little more than shipping. The 2008 catalog says: "Beware of examples of 304 with perforations removed." It says the same thing in the 2016 catalog. When you see a warning like that, look at the catalog values:
Per 2016 Scott:
304 used $2.25
304 MH $60.00
315 used $1250
315 MH $325
That's not what you would necessarily have to PAY for those stamps, but it gives you a good idea of the RELATIVE value. Obviously taking used 304 stamps at $2.25 and trimming perfs to "create" a 315 used at $1250 is a good gig, but there would be few buyers at that price without a cert. The used stamp is more risky since you are trying to transform a $60 stamp into a $325 stamp, but destroying the initial value of the stamp you are working with. Only someone with sophisticated techniques would do that. So guess what? Scam artists with sophisticated techniques do EXACTLY that.
My rule of thumb is: If there is a warning in the Scott Specialized, I get a cert BEFORE it goes into MY collection! I just bought a nice Kansas City Roulette block from the APS store and sent it right back to APEX for a cert.
Lars
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
Lars,
I totally agree that value plays a role in the motivation for altered stamps; so you make a great point. Checking out a catalog is always a good starting point. But we should go further than the handful of notes in the Scott Specialized because it barely touches upon the much large number of potentially altered stamps. For example, we often see low value altered W/F coil stamps; in the majority of cases this came from a collector who had a blank spot in his album and a pair of scissors. At other times a faker will ‘practice’ on lower value stamps first, especially if they are reperfing.
So it is important for the US collector to always consider;
1. Can the stamp be altered?
2. What are the potential ‘source’ stamps for the alteration?
A great book for the often altered US Washington Franklin coils is Paul Schmid “The Experts Book”. This is a ‘must have’ for anyone who is collecting Washington Franklin stamps. It calls out the ‘source’ stamps for all the alterations. Some of this information is also contained on Stamp Smarter ( http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/washfrank/d2Coils.html) but Paul’s book is more comprehensive.
But your tag line ‘Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks’ is spot on and in this case it means arming yourself with as much information as possible.
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
Hi Studebaker;
Yes I collect Washington-Franklins, but not as a serious study, but I just like to be able to identify
what I find in lots I purchase.
Is this book "The Experts Book", still in print, or is it available as a used book? Also do you know
where a copy can be had, or for how much?
Still sortin'....
TuskenRaider
Ooops; I just saw one on eBay for $69, and another one for $44. The one for $44 (already sold) was
located in Grand Rapids Michigan. Could that possibly be our own musicman in Greenville Michigan?
Login to Like
this post
re: U.S. 5c LINCOLN IMPERF
Hi,
It is out-of-print but I digitized the book for the author so he has it available on DVD disk. I believe that the digital version is less costly than the out-of-print book. I am sending you his email address via private message.
Don
Edit; here is a sample page
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