Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
The watermark is correct, it has the spur
Does it qualify as SG21a?
Regards
Horamakhet
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Hi Horamakhet,
I agree this has the "die II" flaw.
Have you checked the perfs to be sure which stamp it is?
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Hi
Perfs are 14.25
Horamakhet
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Thanks Horamakhet,
The problem for me is that it looks comb perf rather than line but I'm very happy to be wrong.
The ACSC gives the following perfs:
- line-perf 14.2
- smooth paper - comb-perf 14.25 x 14
- rough paper - comb-perf 14.25 x 14
As far as I can see these correspond to SG 21a, SG 21d and SG 47i.
Have you tried placing the stamp next to a known comb-perf stamp so see if the perfs are out of alignment?
Can you identify the postmark?
The catalogue says that around 50 line-perf stamps are known from various places in south Queensland, Sydney and Victoria.
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Hi NigelC
I will find a known line perf and see what the results are.
Working long hours at present due to Christmas retailing.
But I think I have another one of the those stamps as well somewhere in the thousands of penny reds that I have.
regards
Horamakhet
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Hi Nigelc
I think the ACSC also gives an illustration of the line perfs and comb perfs, so I will check there also
Horamakhet
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Hi nigelc and others
Now using the test suggested in the ACSC I have lined up the two spurs against a known comb perf. The comb perf is the centre stamp.
The one on the right is possibly a comb perf, but the one on the left is probably a single line perf, postmarked Melbourne
I have tried to line up the base colour on each stamp to get the result.
Now here is the confusing bit.
The stamp in the centre has perfs 14 x14.25
The other two are both 14.25 on all sides.
opinions are appreciated.
Regards
Horamakhet
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Also, the one on the extreme left, would that be a cracked electro?
Horamakhet
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Hi Horamakhet,
When I measure the perfs on the bottom edge of each stamp in your image I get the same result for all three.
The sides also seem to be the same perf and to have a lower gauge than the bottom so I would expect these three stamps all to be 14.25 x 14.
They all look comb perf to me.
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It a difficult one, maybe I will invest in an electronic gauage,
Does anyone have experience with one, and are they accurate.
Horamakhet
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RE spur GEorge V being a line perf.
.The 1/2d green in the centre is a known comb perf.
The two red 1d George V do not line up, so I still think there is a possibility of the both being Line Perfs which would make them both SG21a
Comments appreciated
Regards
PS. Merry Christmas to all and your families.
Horamakhet
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Incredible as it may seem, I actually do not own a copy of the 1d Penny George V violet stamp
Yet I have hundreds of each of the other colours and denominations., must make a trip in the city and visit a stamp dealer to actually buy one, or maybe it will be easier to get one from Ebay.
Horamakhet
While I am waiting for dinner to cook, I opened another time of stamps, and yes there was a whole packet of about 30 x 1d violet George V.
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Hi to all
Now I have put the two spurs stamps against the 1d violet which was only done in comb perf.
Well, the one on the left is possibly a line perf, and the one on the right is a comb perf, so I have one of each.
Regards
Horamakhet
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Not a single line perf in sight - all comb.
And to answer your question about a cracked electro - these stamps were not printed from electros.
Regards
Frank
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Hi Langtounlad
Why do you think that they are all comb perf?
I have tested the stamps against several copies of the 1d violet, and come up with the same result.
According to the description in the ACSC, the one on the left fits the test for Line Perf.
All comments appreciated.
Horamakhet
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Just lots of experience.
None of your posted tests are convincing but as ACSC states, measurement is the only sure test - but it has to be done properly. Especially the one with the three penny reds where all of your stamps are lying at different angles and none of the tips meet.
If you think you have a $5000 stamp you should be requesting an expert appraisal which you will not get on forums.
Regards
Frank
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Hi langtounlad
That is where we disagree.
I have had lots of expert opinions on stamp forums.
There are many well informed members on stamp forums, and some of them are well respected authorities on the subject of stamps.
I respect all and everyone's opinions.
My post with the reds was then done with the penny violet at the suggestion of a member on this forum.
Of course I will seek an authoritative opinion if I believe that it is a $5000.00 stamp.
But that is why persons ask questions, to ascertain if their is a possibility of such a chance find, before spending money on expensive certification.
You say you have had lots of experience, is this as a dealer, or as a certification authority, or just as a collector?
Stranger things have happened, and persons have, and probably will make chance discoveries in the future, and I am talking of discovery that did happen by chance.
Regards
Horamakhet
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Horamakhet, your 1d red is comb perf unfortunately.
Try scanning again but make sure the red and violet stamps are perfectly parallel to each other. Line the top perfs up exactly so that the centres of the top perfs are directly opposite with each other (don't worry about where the stamp design is - line the top perfs up).
If you do this accurately, a line perf will become more and more displaced from alignment with the comb perf as you move down. See snowy12's excellent image for this effect.
Your current scan show the stamps at a slight slope to one another with the top perfs not perfectly aligned and no consistent graduation in displacement as you move down. In fact the perfs seem consistently slightly lower on the violet stamp.
The perf holes opposite each other for single line perf are usually not vertically aligned (although this can happen very rarely) and the corners are usually quite different to your 1d red, which has typically comb perf corners.
Finally, single line perf holes are usually larger and have pointier tips on the perfs.
The clincher of course is an early postmark date - but this is obviously not possible for your stamp.
Try the scan again - hope this info helps.
Regards,
Martin
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com
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The watermark is correct, it has the spur
Does it qualify as SG21a?
Regards
Horamakhet
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this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Hi Horamakhet,
I agree this has the "die II" flaw.
Have you checked the perfs to be sure which stamp it is?
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Thanks Horamakhet,
The problem for me is that it looks comb perf rather than line but I'm very happy to be wrong.
The ACSC gives the following perfs:
- line-perf 14.2
- smooth paper - comb-perf 14.25 x 14
- rough paper - comb-perf 14.25 x 14
As far as I can see these correspond to SG 21a, SG 21d and SG 47i.
Have you tried placing the stamp next to a known comb-perf stamp so see if the perfs are out of alignment?
Can you identify the postmark?
The catalogue says that around 50 line-perf stamps are known from various places in south Queensland, Sydney and Victoria.
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Hi NigelC
I will find a known line perf and see what the results are.
Working long hours at present due to Christmas retailing.
But I think I have another one of the those stamps as well somewhere in the thousands of penny reds that I have.
regards
Horamakhet
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this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Hi Nigelc
I think the ACSC also gives an illustration of the line perfs and comb perfs, so I will check there also
Horamakhet
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Hi nigelc and others
Now using the test suggested in the ACSC I have lined up the two spurs against a known comb perf. The comb perf is the centre stamp.
The one on the right is possibly a comb perf, but the one on the left is probably a single line perf, postmarked Melbourne
I have tried to line up the base colour on each stamp to get the result.
Now here is the confusing bit.
The stamp in the centre has perfs 14 x14.25
The other two are both 14.25 on all sides.
opinions are appreciated.
Regards
Horamakhet
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Also, the one on the extreme left, would that be a cracked electro?
Horamakhet
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this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Hi Horamakhet,
When I measure the perfs on the bottom edge of each stamp in your image I get the same result for all three.
The sides also seem to be the same perf and to have a lower gauge than the bottom so I would expect these three stamps all to be 14.25 x 14.
They all look comb perf to me.
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
It a difficult one, maybe I will invest in an electronic gauage,
Does anyone have experience with one, and are they accurate.
Horamakhet
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
RE spur GEorge V being a line perf.
.The 1/2d green in the centre is a known comb perf.
The two red 1d George V do not line up, so I still think there is a possibility of the both being Line Perfs which would make them both SG21a
Comments appreciated
Regards
PS. Merry Christmas to all and your families.
Horamakhet
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Incredible as it may seem, I actually do not own a copy of the 1d Penny George V violet stamp
Yet I have hundreds of each of the other colours and denominations., must make a trip in the city and visit a stamp dealer to actually buy one, or maybe it will be easier to get one from Ebay.
Horamakhet
While I am waiting for dinner to cook, I opened another time of stamps, and yes there was a whole packet of about 30 x 1d violet George V.
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Hi to all
Now I have put the two spurs stamps against the 1d violet which was only done in comb perf.
Well, the one on the left is possibly a line perf, and the one on the right is a comb perf, so I have one of each.
Regards
Horamakhet
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03:00:41am
re: SG21a DIE II
Not a single line perf in sight - all comb.
And to answer your question about a cracked electro - these stamps were not printed from electros.
Regards
Frank
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this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Hi Langtounlad
Why do you think that they are all comb perf?
I have tested the stamps against several copies of the 1d violet, and come up with the same result.
According to the description in the ACSC, the one on the left fits the test for Line Perf.
All comments appreciated.
Horamakhet
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this post
09:46:46pm
re: SG21a DIE II
Just lots of experience.
None of your posted tests are convincing but as ACSC states, measurement is the only sure test - but it has to be done properly. Especially the one with the three penny reds where all of your stamps are lying at different angles and none of the tips meet.
If you think you have a $5000 stamp you should be requesting an expert appraisal which you will not get on forums.
Regards
Frank
Login to Like
this post
re: SG21a DIE II
Hi langtounlad
That is where we disagree.
I have had lots of expert opinions on stamp forums.
There are many well informed members on stamp forums, and some of them are well respected authorities on the subject of stamps.
I respect all and everyone's opinions.
My post with the reds was then done with the penny violet at the suggestion of a member on this forum.
Of course I will seek an authoritative opinion if I believe that it is a $5000.00 stamp.
But that is why persons ask questions, to ascertain if their is a possibility of such a chance find, before spending money on expensive certification.
You say you have had lots of experience, is this as a dealer, or as a certification authority, or just as a collector?
Stranger things have happened, and persons have, and probably will make chance discoveries in the future, and I am talking of discovery that did happen by chance.
Regards
Horamakhet
Login to Like
this post
09:23:47pm
re: SG21a DIE II
Horamakhet, your 1d red is comb perf unfortunately.
Try scanning again but make sure the red and violet stamps are perfectly parallel to each other. Line the top perfs up exactly so that the centres of the top perfs are directly opposite with each other (don't worry about where the stamp design is - line the top perfs up).
If you do this accurately, a line perf will become more and more displaced from alignment with the comb perf as you move down. See snowy12's excellent image for this effect.
Your current scan show the stamps at a slight slope to one another with the top perfs not perfectly aligned and no consistent graduation in displacement as you move down. In fact the perfs seem consistently slightly lower on the violet stamp.
The perf holes opposite each other for single line perf are usually not vertically aligned (although this can happen very rarely) and the corners are usually quite different to your 1d red, which has typically comb perf corners.
Finally, single line perf holes are usually larger and have pointier tips on the perfs.
The clincher of course is an early postmark date - but this is obviously not possible for your stamp.
Try the scan again - hope this info helps.
Regards,
Martin
https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com
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