Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I'm inclined to mainly buy from UK sources, but if I buy from overseas again I will add a note that if they intend attaching a customs label then to cancel the transaction and refund my money and keep the */@^*! stamps!
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I can only speak about my own recent experiences. If the item weighs less than 13 ozs. there is no reason to affix a Customs Label. If the item weighs less than 13 ozs. and you take it to a Post Office, anything can happen. My wife recently took 400 stamps in a Kraft envelope to Germany and was charged $13.50 by the inept postal clerk. I repeatedly ask myself, why would anyone willingly go to their local Post Office?
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"My wife recently took 400 stamps in a Kraft envelope to Germany and was charged $13.50 by the inept postal clerk."
Just because the envelope contained 400 stamps has no bearing on what the postal charge should be. The size, thickness, weight and structure of the envelope determine what postal rate class the mailpiece goes by.
If your wife did not like the rate to be assessed, she should have discussed it with the clerk to understand better why the clerk was charging the rate. If she didn't like the explanation, should could have asked for another opinion, and/or taken the mailpiece back home to repackage it so that it would conform to a lower postal rate (if repackaging would do that).
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" if they intend attaching a customs label then to cancel the transaction and refund my money and keep the */@,*! stamps!"
No, you need to ask the seller before you buy from them, not after. On Stamporama, once you make a purchase, you are required to complete the transaction. Asking someone not to add a customs form to a mailpiece, if the form is required, to be attached is asking the seller to break the law, and you are breaking the laws of your own country by avoiding paying taxes.
If the mailpiece is spotted, then it can be confiscated, and you won't get the stamps. If you asked the seller not to use a required customs form, then you can't ask for a refund when the stamps are not delivered to your door.
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05:42:53pm
Call HM Customs and ask if you are entitled to a refund. According to the https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty webpage you shouldn't have been charged anything.
I know in Canada there is a procedure that non-business importers can file for refunds.
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"I live in the UK and have bought many times from Canada and the USA. However, on two occasions I've had to pay customs duty as the envelope bore a customs label. Recently it meant I had to pay £9.69 at the post office for stamps that cost less than $40"
Don't blame Americans and Canadians that YOUR GOVERNMENT charges customs duty. I'm in America and receive packages from outside the USA all the time, and have never even been questioned about duty.
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US customs does not collect duties on small declared value items unlike other countries that make you pay no matter what the value and countries.
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"Don't blame Americans and Canadians that YOUR GOVERNMENT charges customs duty. I'm in America and receive packages from outside the USA all the time, and have never even been questioned about duty."
OK, this is an interesting coincidence. But I just dropped off an envelope at our local Canada Post "bodega private outlet" to Tom (Ben Franklin1902) properly weighed and stamped as in dozens of our prior transaction.
On my way out I hear "come back sir" only to be told that the envelope had to be re-measured and now needed an additional $0.98 postage PLUS a mandatory customs form based on the size/weight of the envelope going to the USA. Never seen this before in dozens of our previous transactions!!!
I'm not sure what's going on - and if this has anything to do with our deteriorating NAFTA negotiations or the New World Order of USA trade isolationism - but it seems a weird turn of events.
Has something changed recently?
Dave.
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Dave,
The law has never changed. Technically - if there is ANYTHING in the envelope besides documents or correspondence, it requires a customs form. It would appear that in the US they are making it very difficult to send anything that does require a customs form in a regular first class envelope - they want to make it a first class parcel.
That probably 90 per cent of the stamp trade on here does not use customs forms does not make it legal - it is not. It doesn't matter whether or not it is a gift or merchandise. That they seldom enforce that does not make it legal - I got nailed for a small humorous but worthless postcard sending it as a gift to a friend in Canada. They did make a big deal about it because I was a Federal employee.
Do what you want - after several hours with rather unfriendly people I will never send anything out of the country again. ....
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I have never had to pay any customs duties on stamps in Canada. There have been many times when the customs opened up packages addressed to me where they could see the stamps and the invoice from the seller, but nobody tried to assess taxes. Not so with other products.
My guess is their taxes have to be cost effective. Who will be going through a pile of stamps worth $5 to find those not "made in North America" and charge the appropriate 30-50 cents of duties after spending $20 worth of work?
My pet peeve are postage fees some of us charge. There are guys who will send you an invoice for 50 cents worth of stamps and apparently expect you to pay it. The reality is when we start buying from an approvals book or through the auctions we do not know whether the purchases on that day will represent a meaningful lot or if we will have to wait and buy more material from the seller. Ideally the shipping costs will represent less than 30% of the stamps purchased. Generally, there is a good understanding of that but there are exceptions too. I think next time I get one of those invoices, I will pay for the stamps only and ask the seller to keep them.
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@cougar, Jules I have always bought items on the basis of the cost of S&H being part of the price I am willing to pay.
The sellers all state those costs upfront and I'm sure most will hold an invoice if requested but there has to be communication, both ways.
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Thanks for the replies. I just won't buy from the USA again.
What about Canada? Is it unlawful to send stamps without a customs label? If so then I will stick to Europe, as here sellers are numerous.
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"My pet peeve are postage fees some of us charge."
If you don't like the fees a seller charges, then do not buy from that seller. If the fees are excessive, then report the abusive behavior to the Auctioneer.
"There are guys who will send you an invoice for 50 cents worth of stamps and apparently expect you to pay it.
"
If you buy, you pay, no matter how big or how small.
"The reality is when we start buying from an approvals book or through the auctions we do not know whether the purchases on that day will represent a meaningful lot or if we will have to wait and buy more material from the seller.
"
True. If that happens, or better yet BEFORE that happens, contact the seller and COMMUNICATE with the seller. Ask to see if the seller will agree to give you extra time to continue buying. Just about all the sellers I know here are very accommodating and will let you continue buying for weeks and sometimes even months before sending you an invoice.
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"My guess is their taxes have to be cost effective. Who will be going through a pile of stamps worth $5 to find those not "made in North America" and charge the appropriate 30-50 cents of duties after spending $20 worth of work?
"
They usually won't do that. They will use the declared value on the customs form to determine any duties/taxes to be assessed. Remember false statements on a government form usually carry stiff penalties (for those who will say that they'll simply put a false amount on the form).
"Is it unlawful to send stamps without a customs label?"
It doesn't matter what country. If the package contains merchandise and/or dutiable goods, then a customs form is required per international treaties, Universal Postal Union rules, and the laws of each country.
It is no different than if you say, traveled from the UK to Canada and spent three weeks there. When you returned home, you have to go through customs. When they ask you if you have anything to declare, and you answer falsely, then the merchandise and/or dutiable goods that you are carrying are considered contraband. Such is subject to seizure and the person making the false statement (or omission of a statement such as non-use of a customs form through the mail) is subject to the laws applicable for the country in which they are, including criminal prosecution, fines, taxes, penalties, etc. It's your choice. You take the risk.
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It DOES matter what country. No customs forms are required within the EU.
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"No customs forms are required within the EU."
...unless the UK leaves the EU.
Do what you want. You asked. You got the answers. Any consequences, good or ill, are yours.
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"OK, this is an interesting coincidence. But I just dropped off an envelope at our local Canada Post "bodega private outlet" to Tom (Ben Franklin1902) properly weighed and stamped as in dozens of our prior transaction.
On my way out I hear "come back sir" only to be told that the envelope had to be re-measured and now needed an additional $0.98 postage PLUS a mandatory customs form based on the size/weight of the envelope going to the USA. Never seen this before in dozens of our previous transactions!!!"
Argh! I can only imagine what Dave declared on that customs form!
I can only hope you spelled mary-wanna correctly! And the million dollars declared value? US or Canadian?And for the record, I bought $10 worth of covers from Davy! I don't think I'd be liable for any customs on that anyway.
And at least the guy called you "sir"...
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"And at least the guy called you "sir"..."
Even worse, Tommy - it was a lady!!!
Hahaha.
I wasn't happy to pay the extra amount after I went on the Canada Post site to get the value for invoicing (which I still thought was excessive), but I was mostly gob-smacked that there was a customs form required, which I have never been asked for before.
I hope that our postal authorities don't start making trades/sales between stamp collectors unfeasible.
Very disturbed by this!
Dave.
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Isn't human nature funny. This issue has been beat to death on this and other forums for years. Why do normally law abiding citizens feel it is their right to flaunt the law because it makes things inconvenient (or unfeasible) and they believe (correctly) that the chance of getting caught is fairly low ?
The postal clerk was merely doing her job. If she didn't she would be subject to dismissal. The postal authorities are not trying to make trades/sales between stamp collectors unfeasible - they are trying to enforce the law. It is not personal unless they catch you - then it will feel very personal to you.
Sometimes I feel it's like talking to a brick wall.
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You go, Carol....!
"Isn't human nature funny."
You sure got THAT right.
"Has something changed recently?"
Yes - ENFORCEMENT.
As Carol stated, the rules/laws pertaining have been in place
for quite a while...it's the enforcement of said laws that
has been stepped up as of late - due to the world we currently
live in.
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I concur with Carol.
Avoiding or dodging laws is a risk. If folks think they can dodge the custom laws, go for it but do not complain that just because you got away with it before that something is wrong with a shipping to Country X, Y, or Z.
This is like saying that you are never going to drive through a neighboring town because you got a speeding ticket. Your justification is that you previously went 20 mph over the speed limit and never got caught?
Don
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"...unless the UK leaves the EU. Do what you want. You asked. You got the answers. Any consequences, good or ill, are yours."
The first point is so obvious it doesn't need saying. Your continued antipathy to my original post is clear, as is the antagonistic attitude.
In an adult world I do not see that anyone needs a reminder that it's their responsibility when ordering stamps from overseas.
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"In an adult world I do not see that anyone needs a reminder that it's their responsibility when ordering stamps from overseas."
What was the reason for your original post????
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Why my post? First, as a warning to EU buyers that they may pay a premium for their stamps given the duty or P.O. handling charge that can be incurred, and second to query the use of customs labels from the US and Canada. Surely not unreasonable. But it seems so judging from some replies.
I have seen in print concerns from collectors who have received a post office notification that an envelope awaits collection at their local office but which cannot be delivered because a levied charge has to be paid.
While excess charges may be obvious to some it comes as a nasty surprise to others. Wish I hadn't bothered. Will not post again. Adios!
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OK, I'm confused, is it A or B?
A
"In an adult world I do not see that anyone needs a reminder that it's their responsibility when ordering stamps from overseas."
B
"Why my post? First, as a warning to EU buyers that they may pay a premium for their stamps given the duty or P.O. handling charge that can be incurred, and second to query the use of customs labels from the US and Canada. Surely not unreasonable. But it seems so judging from some replies.
I have seen in print concerns from collectors who have received a post office notification that an envelope awaits collection at their local office but which cannot be delivered because a levied charge has to be paid.
While excess charges may be obvious to some it comes as a nasty surprise to others. Wish I hadn't bothered. Will not post again. Adios!"
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Edited & Clarified:
The Canada Post site provides guidance on postage costs. But there is a disconnect with the private "franchises" who apparently make about 30-50% of their revenue from selling stamps. So they dislike people like us who get a "quote" and use our own stamps. And then other costs/roadblocks suddenly appear.
So there seems to be a variety of answers and applications of "the rules" from place to place. And some who demand a customs form, and others who don't.
Hence my frustration (especially finding out I have to pay $1 more than I was lead to believe) and to fill out a form that might cost the buyer extra as well.
(BTW, I bought something from a US firm as a Christmas present and despite paying their "all-in cost" of $79, found out that they added a customs form that required my recipient to pay another $26 in duties to release the package).
As always, I follow the rules. Just like to know what the rules are and that they are followed equitably.
Dave.
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I think as an enlightening public service, all collectors on here should go to their post offices and bluntly ask if a mailer contains postage stamps that were either sold, traded or are a gift, require a customs form. Share location and what you were told.
I'll go first. Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Two answers from different postal clerks. No. Yes.
The U.S. however states a customs form must be applied for merchandise sent through the mail to a foreign land.
Bruce
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US postal clerks are notorious for not fully understanding the rather larger number of constantly revised postal regulations. So much so that I would be surprised if any one got consistent answers to many questions.
It is not unusual for some collectors to carry a copy of the various postal regulation with them when they go into a US post office so they can bring the clerk up to speed on what they should be doing. This is also not a new thing, anyone who is a bit of a postal historian has seen plenty of surviving 75+ year old covers which show a piece of mail was handled incorrectly.
I think the correct perspective is about each of us taking the time to read and understand the actual postal regulations that apply to what we ship. This puts us in the best position to make the decision if we want to try to skirt the regulations or abide by them. If folks want to try to skirt them, then they understand the risks. If they want to follow them to the letter of the law, they can account for the added cost.
Don
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David - it was not meant as a personal attack on you. It was meant to show frustration at the fact that in my experience here, even though I clearly stated that I did not ship outside of the US, several people outside of the US purchased items from me (one order was for 78 stamps) and insisted that it would be ok to just stick them in an envelope because "everyone else does it”. One person did it 3 times within a month and the smallest ‘“purchase” was 20 some odd stamps. It was a lot of work to redo approval books.
I made a mistake in quoting your comments and I apologize. It does indeed appear that I singled you out and that was certainly not the intent. We all know what road is paved with good intentions. I have removed the quotation from the original post as the posting stands alone without it.
As for reading comprehension I don’t know what to say. It did (still does) sound like you were surprised that a customs form was required for merchandise regardless of envelope size or weight.
I feel terrible that you felt it a personal attack - that was certainly not my intent. Appreciate the fact that you self-censored.
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I for one would like to thank Webpaper for her latest post. An apology seems to be rarely extended these days, and I am not one to use that phrase, these days, at all because it seems so many things have been done (or not done) before. However the act of apology seems to be going the way of dinosaurs.
As far as other members listing where from and what answers they received from postal clerks: I think that little polling act still has merit, Don. By giving readers here multiple examples of how customs rules are judged down at the local post office (no consistency seems to be the rule, it should give potential senders of stamps/covers or anything considered merchandise, the importance of learning the postal rules for themselves. Ignorance is no excuse in a court of law.
Bruce
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Thank you Carol/Webpaper for your response. I have also edited my post accordingly to be more specific as to my issue.
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I purchase and sell almost anywhere, except a few countries for political reasons, and I never go the the Post Office, either in Canada, the U.S., UK and France (Idid not try in other countries). Each time I mail stamps I pull my home cooking scale, look on the corresponding PO Web Site, find the tarif required and stick the appropriate stamps. I never, never, had any problem with letter returned because of customs form missing
For US friends: I find the USPS price calculator quite easy to use.
Michel
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I ship worldwide and normally use both my local Post Offices as I like to get proof of postage so that when things go wrong I can at least claim the postage costs back from Royal Mail.
I seldom put customs forms on as the form MUST go on the front of the letter/package and in the majority of cases there is no room on the envelope for the form!! (If I used larger envelopes the postage costs would have to be higher.)
I have never yet had a customer mention that they have had to pay any customs duty on their items (touch wood!).
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07:15:35am
.. I'm sure most ( sellers )will hold an invoice.
I have yet to find a seller who would not hold an order for a time so I can fatten the calf.
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Aye, but sometimes the calf turns into a coo. (Hee Hee Hee)
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I said I'd post a conclusion...
Davy's package to me arrived today in my mailbox with no fanfare. It arrived in good condition, no postage due, no customs charges. Which is only fair since the package had a value of $10 and it was just US first day covers being sent home anyway.
Thanks Dave! And of course coming from Canada, one of the stamps pictured a Loon! No moose, beavers, maple leaves or Mounties though.
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Thanks for the update Tom.
As I said before, I don't mind if a customs form is required. I'd just rather not be surprised by a "new" or random policy when I drop packages off at the Post Office. And yours was the first in 2+ years on SOR!
I was especially concerned because I bought my daughter a new stylus for her turntable at Christmas. None of the Canadian sellers of the record player carried stock but just said "order it online" (from the U.S. manufacturer). So, US$60 later (with nothing said about customs/duties) it arrives by FedEx who wouldn't deliver it until I paid a $30 customs fee!
And also, I follow the same process as "lerivage" so was just put off that the PO lady somehow recalculated at a $1 higher rate.
Regardless - you've got some nice US FDCs and a loon. I'll use a moose or Mountie next time!
Cheers, Dave.
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Thanks Dave! All the FDCs you sent me are now in my albums, took me an entire evening to do so! But relaxing and fulfilling time.
" And also, I follow the same process as "lerivage" so was just put off that the PO lady somehow recalculated at a $1 higher rate."
Nah, you were just upset she called you Sir!
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08:06:52am
I live in the UK and have bought many times from Canada and the USA. However, on two occasions I've had to pay customs duty as the envelope bore a customs label. Recently it meant I had to pay £9.69 at the post office for stamps that cost less than $40!
I'm inclined to mainly buy from UK sources, but if I buy from overseas again I will add a note that if they intend attaching a customs label then to cancel the transaction and refund my money and keep the */@^*! stamps!
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
I can only speak about my own recent experiences. If the item weighs less than 13 ozs. there is no reason to affix a Customs Label. If the item weighs less than 13 ozs. and you take it to a Post Office, anything can happen. My wife recently took 400 stamps in a Kraft envelope to Germany and was charged $13.50 by the inept postal clerk. I repeatedly ask myself, why would anyone willingly go to their local Post Office?
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"My wife recently took 400 stamps in a Kraft envelope to Germany and was charged $13.50 by the inept postal clerk."
Just because the envelope contained 400 stamps has no bearing on what the postal charge should be. The size, thickness, weight and structure of the envelope determine what postal rate class the mailpiece goes by.
If your wife did not like the rate to be assessed, she should have discussed it with the clerk to understand better why the clerk was charging the rate. If she didn't like the explanation, should could have asked for another opinion, and/or taken the mailpiece back home to repackage it so that it would conform to a lower postal rate (if repackaging would do that).
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
" if they intend attaching a customs label then to cancel the transaction and refund my money and keep the */@,*! stamps!"
No, you need to ask the seller before you buy from them, not after. On Stamporama, once you make a purchase, you are required to complete the transaction. Asking someone not to add a customs form to a mailpiece, if the form is required, to be attached is asking the seller to break the law, and you are breaking the laws of your own country by avoiding paying taxes.
If the mailpiece is spotted, then it can be confiscated, and you won't get the stamps. If you asked the seller not to use a required customs form, then you can't ask for a refund when the stamps are not delivered to your door.
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11 Jan 2018
05:42:53pm
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Call HM Customs and ask if you are entitled to a refund. According to the https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty webpage you shouldn't have been charged anything.
I know in Canada there is a procedure that non-business importers can file for refunds.
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Approvals
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"I live in the UK and have bought many times from Canada and the USA. However, on two occasions I've had to pay customs duty as the envelope bore a customs label. Recently it meant I had to pay £9.69 at the post office for stamps that cost less than $40"
Don't blame Americans and Canadians that YOUR GOVERNMENT charges customs duty. I'm in America and receive packages from outside the USA all the time, and have never even been questioned about duty.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
US customs does not collect duties on small declared value items unlike other countries that make you pay no matter what the value and countries.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"Don't blame Americans and Canadians that YOUR GOVERNMENT charges customs duty. I'm in America and receive packages from outside the USA all the time, and have never even been questioned about duty."
OK, this is an interesting coincidence. But I just dropped off an envelope at our local Canada Post "bodega private outlet" to Tom (Ben Franklin1902) properly weighed and stamped as in dozens of our prior transaction.
On my way out I hear "come back sir" only to be told that the envelope had to be re-measured and now needed an additional $0.98 postage PLUS a mandatory customs form based on the size/weight of the envelope going to the USA. Never seen this before in dozens of our previous transactions!!!
I'm not sure what's going on - and if this has anything to do with our deteriorating NAFTA negotiations or the New World Order of USA trade isolationism - but it seems a weird turn of events.
Has something changed recently?
Dave.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Dave,
The law has never changed. Technically - if there is ANYTHING in the envelope besides documents or correspondence, it requires a customs form. It would appear that in the US they are making it very difficult to send anything that does require a customs form in a regular first class envelope - they want to make it a first class parcel.
That probably 90 per cent of the stamp trade on here does not use customs forms does not make it legal - it is not. It doesn't matter whether or not it is a gift or merchandise. That they seldom enforce that does not make it legal - I got nailed for a small humorous but worthless postcard sending it as a gift to a friend in Canada. They did make a big deal about it because I was a Federal employee.
Do what you want - after several hours with rather unfriendly people I will never send anything out of the country again. ....
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Approvals
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
I have never had to pay any customs duties on stamps in Canada. There have been many times when the customs opened up packages addressed to me where they could see the stamps and the invoice from the seller, but nobody tried to assess taxes. Not so with other products.
My guess is their taxes have to be cost effective. Who will be going through a pile of stamps worth $5 to find those not "made in North America" and charge the appropriate 30-50 cents of duties after spending $20 worth of work?
My pet peeve are postage fees some of us charge. There are guys who will send you an invoice for 50 cents worth of stamps and apparently expect you to pay it. The reality is when we start buying from an approvals book or through the auctions we do not know whether the purchases on that day will represent a meaningful lot or if we will have to wait and buy more material from the seller. Ideally the shipping costs will represent less than 30% of the stamps purchased. Generally, there is a good understanding of that but there are exceptions too. I think next time I get one of those invoices, I will pay for the stamps only and ask the seller to keep them.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
@cougar, Jules I have always bought items on the basis of the cost of S&H being part of the price I am willing to pay.
The sellers all state those costs upfront and I'm sure most will hold an invoice if requested but there has to be communication, both ways.
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04:22:47pm
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Thanks for the replies. I just won't buy from the USA again.
What about Canada? Is it unlawful to send stamps without a customs label? If so then I will stick to Europe, as here sellers are numerous.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"My pet peeve are postage fees some of us charge."
If you don't like the fees a seller charges, then do not buy from that seller. If the fees are excessive, then report the abusive behavior to the Auctioneer.
"There are guys who will send you an invoice for 50 cents worth of stamps and apparently expect you to pay it.
"
If you buy, you pay, no matter how big or how small.
"The reality is when we start buying from an approvals book or through the auctions we do not know whether the purchases on that day will represent a meaningful lot or if we will have to wait and buy more material from the seller.
"
True. If that happens, or better yet BEFORE that happens, contact the seller and COMMUNICATE with the seller. Ask to see if the seller will agree to give you extra time to continue buying. Just about all the sellers I know here are very accommodating and will let you continue buying for weeks and sometimes even months before sending you an invoice.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"My guess is their taxes have to be cost effective. Who will be going through a pile of stamps worth $5 to find those not "made in North America" and charge the appropriate 30-50 cents of duties after spending $20 worth of work?
"
They usually won't do that. They will use the declared value on the customs form to determine any duties/taxes to be assessed. Remember false statements on a government form usually carry stiff penalties (for those who will say that they'll simply put a false amount on the form).
"Is it unlawful to send stamps without a customs label?"
It doesn't matter what country. If the package contains merchandise and/or dutiable goods, then a customs form is required per international treaties, Universal Postal Union rules, and the laws of each country.
It is no different than if you say, traveled from the UK to Canada and spent three weeks there. When you returned home, you have to go through customs. When they ask you if you have anything to declare, and you answer falsely, then the merchandise and/or dutiable goods that you are carrying are considered contraband. Such is subject to seizure and the person making the false statement (or omission of a statement such as non-use of a customs form through the mail) is subject to the laws applicable for the country in which they are, including criminal prosecution, fines, taxes, penalties, etc. It's your choice. You take the risk.
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05:34:13pm
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
It DOES matter what country. No customs forms are required within the EU.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"No customs forms are required within the EU."
...unless the UK leaves the EU.
Do what you want. You asked. You got the answers. Any consequences, good or ill, are yours.
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Approvals
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"OK, this is an interesting coincidence. But I just dropped off an envelope at our local Canada Post "bodega private outlet" to Tom (Ben Franklin1902) properly weighed and stamped as in dozens of our prior transaction.
On my way out I hear "come back sir" only to be told that the envelope had to be re-measured and now needed an additional $0.98 postage PLUS a mandatory customs form based on the size/weight of the envelope going to the USA. Never seen this before in dozens of our previous transactions!!!"
Argh! I can only imagine what Dave declared on that customs form!
I can only hope you spelled mary-wanna correctly! And the million dollars declared value? US or Canadian?And for the record, I bought $10 worth of covers from Davy! I don't think I'd be liable for any customs on that anyway.
And at least the guy called you "sir"...
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"And at least the guy called you "sir"..."
Even worse, Tommy - it was a lady!!!
Hahaha.
I wasn't happy to pay the extra amount after I went on the Canada Post site to get the value for invoicing (which I still thought was excessive), but I was mostly gob-smacked that there was a customs form required, which I have never been asked for before.
I hope that our postal authorities don't start making trades/sales between stamp collectors unfeasible.
Very disturbed by this!
Dave.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Isn't human nature funny. This issue has been beat to death on this and other forums for years. Why do normally law abiding citizens feel it is their right to flaunt the law because it makes things inconvenient (or unfeasible) and they believe (correctly) that the chance of getting caught is fairly low ?
The postal clerk was merely doing her job. If she didn't she would be subject to dismissal. The postal authorities are not trying to make trades/sales between stamp collectors unfeasible - they are trying to enforce the law. It is not personal unless they catch you - then it will feel very personal to you.
Sometimes I feel it's like talking to a brick wall.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
You go, Carol....!
"Isn't human nature funny."
You sure got THAT right.
"Has something changed recently?"
Yes - ENFORCEMENT.
As Carol stated, the rules/laws pertaining have been in place
for quite a while...it's the enforcement of said laws that
has been stepped up as of late - due to the world we currently
live in.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
I concur with Carol.
Avoiding or dodging laws is a risk. If folks think they can dodge the custom laws, go for it but do not complain that just because you got away with it before that something is wrong with a shipping to Country X, Y, or Z.
This is like saying that you are never going to drive through a neighboring town because you got a speeding ticket. Your justification is that you previously went 20 mph over the speed limit and never got caught?
Don
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10:03:53am
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"...unless the UK leaves the EU. Do what you want. You asked. You got the answers. Any consequences, good or ill, are yours."
The first point is so obvious it doesn't need saying. Your continued antipathy to my original post is clear, as is the antagonistic attitude.
In an adult world I do not see that anyone needs a reminder that it's their responsibility when ordering stamps from overseas.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
"In an adult world I do not see that anyone needs a reminder that it's their responsibility when ordering stamps from overseas."
What was the reason for your original post????
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11:06:20am
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Why my post? First, as a warning to EU buyers that they may pay a premium for their stamps given the duty or P.O. handling charge that can be incurred, and second to query the use of customs labels from the US and Canada. Surely not unreasonable. But it seems so judging from some replies.
I have seen in print concerns from collectors who have received a post office notification that an envelope awaits collection at their local office but which cannot be delivered because a levied charge has to be paid.
While excess charges may be obvious to some it comes as a nasty surprise to others. Wish I hadn't bothered. Will not post again. Adios!
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
OK, I'm confused, is it A or B?
A
"In an adult world I do not see that anyone needs a reminder that it's their responsibility when ordering stamps from overseas."
B
"Why my post? First, as a warning to EU buyers that they may pay a premium for their stamps given the duty or P.O. handling charge that can be incurred, and second to query the use of customs labels from the US and Canada. Surely not unreasonable. But it seems so judging from some replies.
I have seen in print concerns from collectors who have received a post office notification that an envelope awaits collection at their local office but which cannot be delivered because a levied charge has to be paid.
While excess charges may be obvious to some it comes as a nasty surprise to others. Wish I hadn't bothered. Will not post again. Adios!"
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Edited & Clarified:
The Canada Post site provides guidance on postage costs. But there is a disconnect with the private "franchises" who apparently make about 30-50% of their revenue from selling stamps. So they dislike people like us who get a "quote" and use our own stamps. And then other costs/roadblocks suddenly appear.
So there seems to be a variety of answers and applications of "the rules" from place to place. And some who demand a customs form, and others who don't.
Hence my frustration (especially finding out I have to pay $1 more than I was lead to believe) and to fill out a form that might cost the buyer extra as well.
(BTW, I bought something from a US firm as a Christmas present and despite paying their "all-in cost" of $79, found out that they added a customs form that required my recipient to pay another $26 in duties to release the package).
As always, I follow the rules. Just like to know what the rules are and that they are followed equitably.
Dave.
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01:58:32pm
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
I think as an enlightening public service, all collectors on here should go to their post offices and bluntly ask if a mailer contains postage stamps that were either sold, traded or are a gift, require a customs form. Share location and what you were told.
I'll go first. Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Two answers from different postal clerks. No. Yes.
The U.S. however states a customs form must be applied for merchandise sent through the mail to a foreign land.
Bruce
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
US postal clerks are notorious for not fully understanding the rather larger number of constantly revised postal regulations. So much so that I would be surprised if any one got consistent answers to many questions.
It is not unusual for some collectors to carry a copy of the various postal regulation with them when they go into a US post office so they can bring the clerk up to speed on what they should be doing. This is also not a new thing, anyone who is a bit of a postal historian has seen plenty of surviving 75+ year old covers which show a piece of mail was handled incorrectly.
I think the correct perspective is about each of us taking the time to read and understand the actual postal regulations that apply to what we ship. This puts us in the best position to make the decision if we want to try to skirt the regulations or abide by them. If folks want to try to skirt them, then they understand the risks. If they want to follow them to the letter of the law, they can account for the added cost.
Don
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
David - it was not meant as a personal attack on you. It was meant to show frustration at the fact that in my experience here, even though I clearly stated that I did not ship outside of the US, several people outside of the US purchased items from me (one order was for 78 stamps) and insisted that it would be ok to just stick them in an envelope because "everyone else does it”. One person did it 3 times within a month and the smallest ‘“purchase” was 20 some odd stamps. It was a lot of work to redo approval books.
I made a mistake in quoting your comments and I apologize. It does indeed appear that I singled you out and that was certainly not the intent. We all know what road is paved with good intentions. I have removed the quotation from the original post as the posting stands alone without it.
As for reading comprehension I don’t know what to say. It did (still does) sound like you were surprised that a customs form was required for merchandise regardless of envelope size or weight.
I feel terrible that you felt it a personal attack - that was certainly not my intent. Appreciate the fact that you self-censored.
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04:00:29pm
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
I for one would like to thank Webpaper for her latest post. An apology seems to be rarely extended these days, and I am not one to use that phrase, these days, at all because it seems so many things have been done (or not done) before. However the act of apology seems to be going the way of dinosaurs.
As far as other members listing where from and what answers they received from postal clerks: I think that little polling act still has merit, Don. By giving readers here multiple examples of how customs rules are judged down at the local post office (no consistency seems to be the rule, it should give potential senders of stamps/covers or anything considered merchandise, the importance of learning the postal rules for themselves. Ignorance is no excuse in a court of law.
Bruce
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Thank you Carol/Webpaper for your response. I have also edited my post accordingly to be more specific as to my issue.
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04:46:18am
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
I purchase and sell almost anywhere, except a few countries for political reasons, and I never go the the Post Office, either in Canada, the U.S., UK and France (Idid not try in other countries). Each time I mail stamps I pull my home cooking scale, look on the corresponding PO Web Site, find the tarif required and stick the appropriate stamps. I never, never, had any problem with letter returned because of customs form missing
For US friends: I find the USPS price calculator quite easy to use.
Michel
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
I ship worldwide and normally use both my local Post Offices as I like to get proof of postage so that when things go wrong I can at least claim the postage costs back from Royal Mail.
I seldom put customs forms on as the form MUST go on the front of the letter/package and in the majority of cases there is no room on the envelope for the form!! (If I used larger envelopes the postage costs would have to be higher.)
I have never yet had a customer mention that they have had to pay any customs duty on their items (touch wood!).
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
17 Jan 2018
07:15:35am
re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
.. I'm sure most ( sellers )will hold an invoice.
I have yet to find a seller who would not hold an order for a time so I can fatten the calf.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
I said I'd post a conclusion...
Davy's package to me arrived today in my mailbox with no fanfare. It arrived in good condition, no postage due, no customs charges. Which is only fair since the package had a value of $10 and it was just US first day covers being sent home anyway.
Thanks Dave! And of course coming from Canada, one of the stamps pictured a Loon! No moose, beavers, maple leaves or Mounties though.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Thanks for the update Tom.
As I said before, I don't mind if a customs form is required. I'd just rather not be surprised by a "new" or random policy when I drop packages off at the Post Office. And yours was the first in 2+ years on SOR!
I was especially concerned because I bought my daughter a new stylus for her turntable at Christmas. None of the Canadian sellers of the record player carried stock but just said "order it online" (from the U.S. manufacturer). So, US$60 later (with nothing said about customs/duties) it arrives by FedEx who wouldn't deliver it until I paid a $30 customs fee!
And also, I follow the same process as "lerivage" so was just put off that the PO lady somehow recalculated at a $1 higher rate.
Regardless - you've got some nice US FDCs and a loon. I'll use a moose or Mountie next time!
Cheers, Dave.
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re: Buying from overseas and customs duty
Thanks Dave! All the FDCs you sent me are now in my albums, took me an entire evening to do so! But relaxing and fulfilling time.
" And also, I follow the same process as "lerivage" so was just put off that the PO lady somehow recalculated at a $1 higher rate."
Nah, you were just upset she called you Sir!
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