Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
For the time being I've arbitrarily decided to stop my collecting at 1970. I'm about 95% complete from 1930 on but my collection gets pretty sparse before that.
Maybe you can give me some advice about one concern I have: eBay. I collect vintage pocket knives and in that discussion forum we have a permanent topic devoted just to fakes and altered knives on eBay, and we also identify by name the most egregious sellers of fakes. Also, folks who are considering an important purchase will sometimes post photos to see if anybody can identify any issues with the knife. I'm sure this same problem exists in the stamp world so if there are some existing threads you can point me to on this topic of fakes or altered stamps that would be great.
I'm also going to start frequenting the auctions and the sellers listings here as I suspect honesty and straight shooting are the norm on StampoRama. Thanks,
Dennis
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Hello Dennis.
I think that Stamporama will full fill your desires concerning information on fakes on eBay and elsewhere. Welcome.
Jim
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Welcome Dennis,
A lot of the collectors here have similar stories. We collected as kids then put the collection down until later in life. I picked up my childhood collection about twenty five years ago while recovering from an auto accident with the intention of selling it but here I am collecting again.
You will get good advice here on shopping on eBay. You also have a fellow knife collector here, whitebuffalo.
Post your questions.
Vince
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Welcome,
Yes, eBay is a minefield of faked and altered US stamps. Some estimate that as many as 80% of 1908-23 Washington/Franklin listed on eBay are faked/altered.
Do NOT buy into the eBay rating system, it is meaningless. Do NOT believe eBay's marketing that you can buy without knowing who you are buying from. And frankly, you cannot even trust sellers who might be flying a ASDA or APS banner. (Hot topic over in SCF forum on this subject right now.)
The two most important things about buying stamps online; know your stamps but also know who you are buying from. Ask other hobbyists who they recommend. Always start slowly with a new seller and build a trusted relationship before committing larger amounts of money. Education is the only weapon in the war against fraud and deception.
Stamp Smarter has a database of previous eBay listings reviews which can help you learn to make better informed buying decisions.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/BuyingOnline/Home_Buying.html
There is also a section that helps you understand the 50 most commonly faked/altered 1908-23 Washington/Franklins.
http://stampsmarter.com/1847usa/WFFakes.html
The site has well over 1200 pages packed with features which are all dedicated to helping hobbyists become better informed. Knowledge is power.
Don
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Hey Dennis, welcome to SOR!
As Vince mentioned, I also collect vintage pocketknives, been at it for about as long as stamp collecting, actually a bit longer. I also started collecting what I consider a crossover collectable of vintage letter openers. Some of those even have pocketknives built into the handles.
I find stamp collecting every bit as satisfying as knives and have backed off knives just a bit over the past couple of years to focus more effort on my stamp collection.
Like you, I also stepped away from my childhood collection started in the late 60's-late '70's. I started again in the mid '90's, but a family tragedy put it on hold again until about 3 years ago. The first thing I did was join SOR and it was the best thing I could have done to take collecting to the next level. The folks here are the best and I'm sure you'll be glad you joined.
I collect worldwide, but have several focused collections of post WWII countries like Israel, Indonesia and DDR. I originally thought to stay within a pre-1970 cutoff, but I'm as guilty as sin of all too often stepping way outside of that timeline.
Glad to have you on board. Be sure to check out the approvals as well as the auctions, both are a great resource for needed material.
WB
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Welcome from Manitoba Dennis, enjoy the stamps and posts and ask away if anything is confusing or problematic.
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Thanks very much to all of you for the warm welcome!
I'm appalled at the percentage of questionable stamps on eBay for some of the earlier issues. Since I'm starting to get into those issues I'm going to have to both get a lot smarter and buy from trusted vendors. Towards that end I'll try to get to know some of you guys / gals first hand. Glad I found this place.
Once again, thanks.
Dennis
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For what it's worth, the main reason I procrastinated in selling stamps on Ebay, SOR, and elsewhere for so long was because I was deathly afraid of misidentifying a stamp and running into "problems". I am very pleased to state that that has not happened, although I am apprehensive about the Scott #27 from Persia I listed on Ebay yesterday. I did some limited research, and "my" stamp looks identical to a couple of others on Ebay and Hipstamps, but -
Regards,
Bob Armstrong
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The most dangerous time is to be transitioning to a more serious collector seeking to find the less common stamps. What looks like a bargain is almost never a bargain. For US stamps, avoid like the plague NYStamps, Anthony’s and any of the 40-50 account names used by the British Cartel person. Frankly unless you have invested hundreds of hours learning rarer US stamps and how they were manufactured, you are best served only buying stamps which already have a certification or those which you can get certified or get your money returned.
Just this week on another forum a person reported the results of 20 purchases from Anthony’s, 19 came back as fake, altered, or misidentified. At Stamp Smarter I get emails every month from folks who are leaving the hobby due to getting ripped off by unethical sellers. The emails are never from people who are collecting for fun, they are almost exclusively from folks who are pushing into the less common stamps and have are spending larger amounts of money.
In the ‘olden’ days, we built relationships with brick and mortar dealers; most of whom were interested in building long term customers. So many dealers (not all) nurtured hobbyists as they evolved into the more advance aspects of our hobby, educating them on how to make the most informed buying decisions. A good dealer would pull out and demonstrate the difference in condition between a $10 stamp and a $100 stamp of the same catalog number. But what we have today are online sellers who are peddling that $10 stamp as a $100 stamp and uninformed buyers falling for it.
This is where a community like this one really helps, you get to know who the sellers are and the Mods provide good oversight.
Don
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Welcome, Dennis, to SOR! Yes, I consider EBay the "wild, wild west". You will find good advice and even better, a community of fellow collectors here.
BOB from ORLANDO
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Welcome, Dennis - glad you found us!
You may be able to add to your earlier years right here -
many of our members regularly sell here and many items are the early years you mention.
Is your album worldwide? Just US?
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Hello Dennis,
I too am new. I reside in MA as well. Have found this group an invaluable resource for learning and getting up to speed on stamps there are many resources.So search the whole site for articles and also to help you find that stamp you may have difficulty Identifying. I Have learned more here at Stamporama than most of my research from other various sources. Good Luck.
Blessings,
Michael
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I would like to offer counter-evidence to 51stude's posting.
I have dealt with a couple of the sellers he names, and understand the source of the 'difficulty'. Both of the ones I am speaking to rely on inexperienced people to list the stamps. One told me in a personal email that he does not have control over how the stamps are imaged (I wanted to see the back of the stamp to see if the grill was faked). To me, this implies that the stamps are treated as a commodity, to be traded for profit. They're not collectors, they're dealers. I don't necessarily fault them for that, it is what it is, live with it. If you're never going to source material from a dealer, your collection will grow slowly.
I have also received unsatisfactory purchases from both of the sellers I am speaking to, and have had absolutely no problems obtaining full refunds, including shipping cost. They have EARNED their stellar ratings on eBay!
Also, eBay now offers a sort of 'no-fault' return policy. If you want to return a lot because it was not accurately described, be specific in stating your reasons. And then, if the seller is not responsive, you WILL get a refund directly from eBay. I have exercised this feature twice in the last year.
However, I AM wary of international sellers from non-Western countries that may not have reliable tracking. Recently I returned a lot to a Malaysian seller that I never should have bid on - it was a pig-in-a-poke. I exercised the "no-fault" deal to get my refund, because seller ignored me, and after it was granted he wrote me a scathing email - he was pissed! Anyway, I wanted to have the return mailing tracked, and was told by USPS that it is simply unavailable for Malaysia, presumably because their postal service is so unreliable. Seller never came back saying that he did not receive the return, but I was holding my breath for about a month... Lesson learned!
That said, you CAN get some killer deals from international sellers, probably because buyers are not patient enough to wait the month or more for the items to show up in their mailboxes.
Yesterday, I was looking at a seller's lots that showed multiple countries as the locations of the lots, including China and Denmark. That's strange, I have never seen that before, and it made me suspicious. Maybe he's serving as some kind of broker. Nope, I want to be dealing with the owner of the stamp directly.
Oh, and finally, there are hackers on eBay who fraudulently use the seller names of reputable sellers. I alerted one of those reputable sellers to this once, and he thanked me profusely in a personal email, saying he had alerted eBay to the problem.
Good Luck!
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Pigdoc,
Sorry, respectfully and strongly disagree. The evidence is overwhelming, the dealers I named are awful and in my opinion should be avoided. But please do not take my word for this. Listen to experts Clark, Dan, Bart, Winston and Ken over in the this SCF thread
https://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=58696
These are the same people who sign the certifications when you send stamps in, they see thousands of stamp that people submit every week. Additionally, for the last 4-5 years I have been administering a large community database with over 2000 contributed eBay reviews of bad listings; so I am pretty familiar with the practices of eBay sellers.
Have you tried submitting some of the stamps that purchased from these sellers for certification? If so, what percentage have come back ‘as described’? I would be interested in seeing images of some of the purchased you have made that you think were a good deal from any of them.
Another issue with buying from the scam artists identified above is that they are damaging the hobby. So even if you can pick and choose the ‘good deals’, you are helping keep these bad sellers in business so they can take advantage of others. If folks do not care, they can certainly choose to ignore this fact and do as they please. But there are plenty of good sellers to support.
As for the eBay money back, good luck with that. Sure, eBay will refund small chump change but try doing this with a high dollar purchase. I have more than 5 email from people who have been ripped off for over $1000 by the cartel person. The listing shows that the stamp is located in USA but he is simply using a remote shipper. When you try to return the item, you have to ship it back to Great Britain and then he disputes the claim any way. He empties that account (he has well over 50 accounts he rotates under at any given time) so eBay cannot grab the money from him. eBay will NOT refund a buyer on this size transaction UNLESS they can grab the money back from the seller. I have documented cases where he not only makes off with the money but also gets the stamp back. The victims here in the US simply are not going to hire international investigators and lawyers to chase someone half way across the world. eBay looks the other way with convicted criminals like him and he is ripping people off every month.
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Thanks again to the folks who posted over the last day or so; I'm sure getting lots of good info and advice.
Musicman: Just U.S. I collected worldwide stamps as a kid and would order them on approval. What fun it was to get those letters in the mail. I have fond memories of bright colors, triangle shapes, and other things I'd never seen before.
Michael (spikola): Where are you in MA? I'm in Boston (Charlestown). Maybe we could get acquainted at a show some time.
51Stude & pigdoc: Thanks for the great input on these questionable eBay sellers. Also your link to stampcommunity.org was very informative. I think I'll avoid the sellers mentioned except maybe for modern issues. However, it sounds like some of them have dozens of seller names so how I'll recognize them I have no idea. (Pigdoc, can I assume you are a swine vet.?)
Dennis
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Yes, keeping up with the cartel names is a full time job. He buys many existing eBay accounts with high feedback score (yes, there is a thriving 3rd party market for selling eBay accounts) accounts so new ones occasionally pop up out of the blue. You can search on the other forum on ‘British cartel’ or even Google the same and get a day’s or two worth of reading.
There are a few hallmarks of the his listings. He typically lists high value stamps and start then at $0.01. The listings will typically have a US location one the primary page but if you click on the feedback you will notice that he is located in Great Britain. If you search for previous listings of individual stamps you will find that the same stamp has ‘sold’ multiple times.
We have documented many cases were he has purchased high value (greater than US $500) stamps at major auctions, altered them (typically he buys lightly hinged stamps and then carefully airbrushed the hinge mark) and then lists them starting at $0.01. Now ask yourself who would drop greater than US $500 on a stamp only to turn around and list it starting at $0.01? He only does this because he know he will use one of his other accounts to bid (shill bid) it up over what he has in it. He is a convicted felon but he is not stupid. He has been doing this for decades; eBay Security and trust has previously removed him multiple times but he come back under new names. The issue here is that eBay does not vet accounts at all, they cannot send people to everyone house to see if they are who they say they are.
But be rest assured that if you have bid and purchased one of his listings you paid what he wanted you to pay since you were bidding against one of his shill accounts.
eBay marketing works very hard to try to influence buyers and it works. I just posted this comment in the other thread…
"You know, being a wet blanket sucks too. I hate that we have to constantly tell people that come to online communities that they have been screwed. It gets weary being the messenger, being accused of only being jealous, etc. I have always been a person who believes that ignorance is a voluntary handicap, but we really need to counter balance the power of the eBay marketing machine. The effectiveness of their marketing influence with the 'buy from people you don't know half way around the world sight unseen' is impressive, overwhelming, and damaging our hobby."
Don
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Just a thought on NYSTAMPS. Like Pigdoc, I have bought a lot from them. They do a ton of volume, not only US but worldwide stamps, coins and even jewelry.
Note that their MO is that they provide a photo, front and back of each stamp, and tell you to bid according to the photos, no description. I find that the reverse photo of mint stamps often has glare or otherwise is too small to make a determination. I copy and paste those photos into IrfanView where I can blow them up to examine.
That said, I have only bought face different stamps from them, not varieties of say Washington / Franklin series. I don't buy mint never hinged, I'd suspect those as regummed, in that case I like a good honest hinge mark or two! I did buy some of my Columbians and other commemoratives of that era from them. I bid low and see what I get. They do have a big following so their stuff does get bid up, but occasionally I get lucky.
They must buy a lot of stamp collections, and I have a feeling that they are not in the stamp alteration business, they're just processing stuff in great volume as they find it. Old collections have those fakes and altered stamps in them, just as Carl Berky found same in his lifelong collection as he was selling it off. I've also bought their misc lots of US stamps, which include a grand variety of stamps that weren't worth their effort to list individually. In the last one I bought, there was more in face value on the mint stamps than I paid.
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I purchase lower value worldwide material from nystamps but would not consider for more high end material. I have no complaints with my purchases. I also have learned to study the images carefully especially on lots.
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Don, I have read through a lot of the posts linked to the various sites regarding Ryle's business dealings but wonder why ebay are not making use of the IP address to link his accounts.
Not being computer savyy does it mean he is using multiple computers or linking through one server with his actual address masked?
I would imagine that anyone using the dark web would get away with hiding their location but would he go to that length. (probably yes with the money he is making)
Going back to the other forums, there did not seem to be a link to a list of all his known aliases but a number of shorter lists within the posts. Possibly I missed the list.
Just wondering why his server has not been shut down or incapacitated by the authorities who are no doubt aware of his dubious business practices.
Puzzled, would appreciate your technical knowledge. (or of anyone else)
Vic
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The only issues I have seen with NYSTAMPS is that you do have to be careful in buying collections that the visible stamps alone are worth what you are bidding to you as you cannot assume any useful additions are present.
Definitely some of the images presented are inadequate for evaluating stamps and a good description would be more useful.
Given these caveats I find them very helpful as a dealer.
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NY Stamps finally added to their terms and conditions "Some stamp may be expertly repaired' (after we leaned on them for two years to stop selling repaired crap). You can take what they say to the bank, they 'repair' stamps. They sell some of the worse repaired crap online and are doing the 'repairs' themselves. They have no bargains, they are scamming buyers. If you float the purchases you make you will uncover the 'repairs', I can show you listings where stamps have floated into several pieces when soaked. But most collector simply think they got a great deal and mount the stamps in their album.
Why would anyone buy anything from them when they clearly state they are selling faulty stamps?
I have no heartburn if folks are buying this crap and understand they are buying fillers. If everyone understands that they should not be paying more than 5% of catalog for the crap NYStamps sells, then go for it.
But NY Stamps is making a killing with deceptive listings, posting high catalog values in the titles, selling cleaned used stamp as mint no gum, repairing and hiding serious faults. They INTENTIONALLY use poor, low resolution back images. I would say that 95% of their Washington/Franklins are misidentified. They know this, they are doing it intentionally. Do not believe for a second that this is about 'volume' sellers or that they have worker bees who do not know what they are doing. They have been pitching that BS for years to us, even when we give them undisputable evidence that a listing is deceptive or total misidentified, they do not care.
Again, folks can choose to support these seller if they choose; other folks care about the hobby and choose to not support them. For ever dollar that you spend with a scammer means it is a dollar that does not go to support the sellers who are working hard to do things correctly.
Also keep mind that while you may fill that empty spot in your album, chances are high that it is not the catalog number you think it is and/or the value is next to nothing. Parking your bad buys on your family with the expectation that your collection is worth a lot of money is a horrible thing to do them. If anyone has purchased a lot of material from these sellers please make sure your family knows that your collection is full of stamp of very questionable value.
Don
Edit: I do not want to spam the forum but here are just a handful of the HUNDREDS of deceptive listings from NYSTamps
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/21454.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/29537.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/15230.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/14860.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/27420.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/28711.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/27820.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/39.jpg
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"...why ebay are not making use of the IP address to link his accounts..."
He uses VPNs and other IP address redirectors, this is hacker 101. It is very easy to mask your IP address. He also uses business address spoofing so that it looks like you are buying from a US location. eBay has no reason to hunt these people down, it would cost a lot of time and money. Plus they collect income when he does rip someone off.
Starting an eBay business is the number one thing to do for criminals. In fact, if you buy books or look online this is what they advise criminals to do when they get release from prison. Go start listing stuff on eBay.
Why does anyone bother trying to build high feedback, simply go to http://ebayselleraccounts.com (or one of many other sites) and buy yourself an existing account.
Don
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Thanks Don, figured there must be a good reason. Just wondered what it was.
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After re-reading my posts above I realize that they come across as being harsh. I apologize for that. For the last 4 years or so many of us have worked hard at helping folks make more informed buying decisions. It has been very common to hear stories about hobbyists who have built collections from some of these sellers. We also hear from families who are crushed to find out the collection they were told was worth a lot of money is not worth much at all.
Bill Weiss spent the last years of his life trying to address this issue. I helped him review and contact over 1200 eBay sellers with deceptive listings and we barely scratched the surface. Bill made the same offer to each one of them, he would pay for the certification of their stamp with any organization they wanted if the stamp was as described. 1200 times. Not once did any of them accept his offer.
Of course a small amount of stuff they sell is legitimate or as described; the question is what percentage. In going through years of Bill’s certification records (over 8000 of them) NY Stamps only got clean certs 24-25% of the time. Anthony’s was worse. I implore everyone to do their homework on these sellers. I hate sending folks off this community but please go reads the other forums. (Believe me, I have to hold my nose when I read the ‘down under’ forum’.) You will find the horror stories and other evidence that you need to know to make better buying decisions. If you do not believe me, then please ask some of the experts like Clark Frazier, Eric Jackson, or Ken Lawrence. These are some of the people who also deal with the fallout, upset hobbyists and their families, after being taken by sellers like NY Stamps, Anthony’s, and the cartel.
Don
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Again, Welcome Dennis!
I have been following this thread with some interest. The advise here is good. Do your home work before you start putting large amounts of money into your collection. There are bargains on eBay. I haven't dealt with the "Cartel" but the listings I see shared about their dodgy stamps haven't fooled me. nystamps and ckstamps have some bargains in their US and Canada stamps but be cautious before bidding. If the photos are iffy then that is reason not to bid.
Decide if you are a collector of investor. If you want to invest I would suggest deal with reputable dealers and auction firms and use an agent when bidding in auctions, it is well worth the investment. One of the ways to tell if the dealer or auction firm is reputable is if they are members of the APS and/or The American Stamp Dealers Association.
Invest in literature to help educate yourself. There are many books that are useful and available for free downloads.
Take your time and have fun collecting.
I am mainly a collector but I also consider myself an investor. I have left instructions in my will concerning my collections and how to dispose of them when the time comes. I also left a list of dealers who to go to and especially who to stay away from. I recommended to use my auction (Purser) agent because he has a good idea of what I paid for many of stamps and covers in my collection.
Vince
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Some of the dealers mentioned are members of ASDA. I have not seen any posts if anyone has reported them and any findings.
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If these dealers are members of APS or ASDA and are selling faulty stamps and not refunding money paid, they should be reported to their organisations that they belong to.
What dealers are you talking about?
Vince
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Welcome aboard to the forum Dennis, and I am sure you will have your questions answered to the best of everyone's ability and expertise. I hope you will enjoy it in here?
Chimo
Bujutsu
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Boy my new member introduction has turned into a fascinating and informative discussion of fakes, repairs, and deceptive practices. It almost makes me want to sell my stamps and collect postcards or MacDonald's Happy Meal toys! 
I'm resigned to the fact that I have no business buying any expensive stamps off of eBay because I simply don't have the knowledge to make informed decisions. However, I'll stick it out here and also keep reading and asking questions. For the time being I'll stick to $2 stamps from eBay.
Dennis
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Greetings all, it's a pleasure to be here. I'm semi-retired and dug out my stamp album recently for almost the first time since my teens (newest stamps were from 1964!). My stamp knowledge is limited but I hope to get a lot smarter by hanging around here.
For the time being I've arbitrarily decided to stop my collecting at 1970. I'm about 95% complete from 1930 on but my collection gets pretty sparse before that.
Maybe you can give me some advice about one concern I have: eBay. I collect vintage pocket knives and in that discussion forum we have a permanent topic devoted just to fakes and altered knives on eBay, and we also identify by name the most egregious sellers of fakes. Also, folks who are considering an important purchase will sometimes post photos to see if anybody can identify any issues with the knife. I'm sure this same problem exists in the stamp world so if there are some existing threads you can point me to on this topic of fakes or altered stamps that would be great.
I'm also going to start frequenting the auctions and the sellers listings here as I suspect honesty and straight shooting are the norm on StampoRama. Thanks,
Dennis
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re: Hello from a New Member
Hello Dennis.
I think that Stamporama will full fill your desires concerning information on fakes on eBay and elsewhere. Welcome.
Jim
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re: Hello from a New Member
Welcome Dennis,
A lot of the collectors here have similar stories. We collected as kids then put the collection down until later in life. I picked up my childhood collection about twenty five years ago while recovering from an auto accident with the intention of selling it but here I am collecting again.
You will get good advice here on shopping on eBay. You also have a fellow knife collector here, whitebuffalo.
Post your questions.
Vince
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re: Hello from a New Member
Welcome,
Yes, eBay is a minefield of faked and altered US stamps. Some estimate that as many as 80% of 1908-23 Washington/Franklin listed on eBay are faked/altered.
Do NOT buy into the eBay rating system, it is meaningless. Do NOT believe eBay's marketing that you can buy without knowing who you are buying from. And frankly, you cannot even trust sellers who might be flying a ASDA or APS banner. (Hot topic over in SCF forum on this subject right now.)
The two most important things about buying stamps online; know your stamps but also know who you are buying from. Ask other hobbyists who they recommend. Always start slowly with a new seller and build a trusted relationship before committing larger amounts of money. Education is the only weapon in the war against fraud and deception.
Stamp Smarter has a database of previous eBay listings reviews which can help you learn to make better informed buying decisions.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/BuyingOnline/Home_Buying.html
There is also a section that helps you understand the 50 most commonly faked/altered 1908-23 Washington/Franklins.
http://stampsmarter.com/1847usa/WFFakes.html
The site has well over 1200 pages packed with features which are all dedicated to helping hobbyists become better informed. Knowledge is power.
Don
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re: Hello from a New Member
Hey Dennis, welcome to SOR!
As Vince mentioned, I also collect vintage pocketknives, been at it for about as long as stamp collecting, actually a bit longer. I also started collecting what I consider a crossover collectable of vintage letter openers. Some of those even have pocketknives built into the handles.
I find stamp collecting every bit as satisfying as knives and have backed off knives just a bit over the past couple of years to focus more effort on my stamp collection.
Like you, I also stepped away from my childhood collection started in the late 60's-late '70's. I started again in the mid '90's, but a family tragedy put it on hold again until about 3 years ago. The first thing I did was join SOR and it was the best thing I could have done to take collecting to the next level. The folks here are the best and I'm sure you'll be glad you joined.
I collect worldwide, but have several focused collections of post WWII countries like Israel, Indonesia and DDR. I originally thought to stay within a pre-1970 cutoff, but I'm as guilty as sin of all too often stepping way outside of that timeline.
Glad to have you on board. Be sure to check out the approvals as well as the auctions, both are a great resource for needed material.
WB
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re: Hello from a New Member
Welcome from Manitoba Dennis, enjoy the stamps and posts and ask away if anything is confusing or problematic.
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re: Hello from a New Member
Thanks very much to all of you for the warm welcome!
I'm appalled at the percentage of questionable stamps on eBay for some of the earlier issues. Since I'm starting to get into those issues I'm going to have to both get a lot smarter and buy from trusted vendors. Towards that end I'll try to get to know some of you guys / gals first hand. Glad I found this place.
Once again, thanks.
Dennis
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Hello from a New Member
For what it's worth, the main reason I procrastinated in selling stamps on Ebay, SOR, and elsewhere for so long was because I was deathly afraid of misidentifying a stamp and running into "problems". I am very pleased to state that that has not happened, although I am apprehensive about the Scott #27 from Persia I listed on Ebay yesterday. I did some limited research, and "my" stamp looks identical to a couple of others on Ebay and Hipstamps, but -
Regards,
Bob Armstrong
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re: Hello from a New Member
The most dangerous time is to be transitioning to a more serious collector seeking to find the less common stamps. What looks like a bargain is almost never a bargain. For US stamps, avoid like the plague NYStamps, Anthony’s and any of the 40-50 account names used by the British Cartel person. Frankly unless you have invested hundreds of hours learning rarer US stamps and how they were manufactured, you are best served only buying stamps which already have a certification or those which you can get certified or get your money returned.
Just this week on another forum a person reported the results of 20 purchases from Anthony’s, 19 came back as fake, altered, or misidentified. At Stamp Smarter I get emails every month from folks who are leaving the hobby due to getting ripped off by unethical sellers. The emails are never from people who are collecting for fun, they are almost exclusively from folks who are pushing into the less common stamps and have are spending larger amounts of money.
In the ‘olden’ days, we built relationships with brick and mortar dealers; most of whom were interested in building long term customers. So many dealers (not all) nurtured hobbyists as they evolved into the more advance aspects of our hobby, educating them on how to make the most informed buying decisions. A good dealer would pull out and demonstrate the difference in condition between a $10 stamp and a $100 stamp of the same catalog number. But what we have today are online sellers who are peddling that $10 stamp as a $100 stamp and uninformed buyers falling for it.
This is where a community like this one really helps, you get to know who the sellers are and the Mods provide good oversight.
Don
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Welcome, Dennis, to SOR! Yes, I consider EBay the "wild, wild west". You will find good advice and even better, a community of fellow collectors here.
BOB from ORLANDO
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Welcome, Dennis - glad you found us!
You may be able to add to your earlier years right here -
many of our members regularly sell here and many items are the early years you mention.
Is your album worldwide? Just US?
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Hello Dennis,
I too am new. I reside in MA as well. Have found this group an invaluable resource for learning and getting up to speed on stamps there are many resources.So search the whole site for articles and also to help you find that stamp you may have difficulty Identifying. I Have learned more here at Stamporama than most of my research from other various sources. Good Luck.
Blessings,
Michael
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10:59:57am
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I would like to offer counter-evidence to 51stude's posting.
I have dealt with a couple of the sellers he names, and understand the source of the 'difficulty'. Both of the ones I am speaking to rely on inexperienced people to list the stamps. One told me in a personal email that he does not have control over how the stamps are imaged (I wanted to see the back of the stamp to see if the grill was faked). To me, this implies that the stamps are treated as a commodity, to be traded for profit. They're not collectors, they're dealers. I don't necessarily fault them for that, it is what it is, live with it. If you're never going to source material from a dealer, your collection will grow slowly.
I have also received unsatisfactory purchases from both of the sellers I am speaking to, and have had absolutely no problems obtaining full refunds, including shipping cost. They have EARNED their stellar ratings on eBay!
Also, eBay now offers a sort of 'no-fault' return policy. If you want to return a lot because it was not accurately described, be specific in stating your reasons. And then, if the seller is not responsive, you WILL get a refund directly from eBay. I have exercised this feature twice in the last year.
However, I AM wary of international sellers from non-Western countries that may not have reliable tracking. Recently I returned a lot to a Malaysian seller that I never should have bid on - it was a pig-in-a-poke. I exercised the "no-fault" deal to get my refund, because seller ignored me, and after it was granted he wrote me a scathing email - he was pissed! Anyway, I wanted to have the return mailing tracked, and was told by USPS that it is simply unavailable for Malaysia, presumably because their postal service is so unreliable. Seller never came back saying that he did not receive the return, but I was holding my breath for about a month... Lesson learned!
That said, you CAN get some killer deals from international sellers, probably because buyers are not patient enough to wait the month or more for the items to show up in their mailboxes.
Yesterday, I was looking at a seller's lots that showed multiple countries as the locations of the lots, including China and Denmark. That's strange, I have never seen that before, and it made me suspicious. Maybe he's serving as some kind of broker. Nope, I want to be dealing with the owner of the stamp directly.
Oh, and finally, there are hackers on eBay who fraudulently use the seller names of reputable sellers. I alerted one of those reputable sellers to this once, and he thanked me profusely in a personal email, saying he had alerted eBay to the problem.
Good Luck!
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Pigdoc,
Sorry, respectfully and strongly disagree. The evidence is overwhelming, the dealers I named are awful and in my opinion should be avoided. But please do not take my word for this. Listen to experts Clark, Dan, Bart, Winston and Ken over in the this SCF thread
https://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=58696
These are the same people who sign the certifications when you send stamps in, they see thousands of stamp that people submit every week. Additionally, for the last 4-5 years I have been administering a large community database with over 2000 contributed eBay reviews of bad listings; so I am pretty familiar with the practices of eBay sellers.
Have you tried submitting some of the stamps that purchased from these sellers for certification? If so, what percentage have come back ‘as described’? I would be interested in seeing images of some of the purchased you have made that you think were a good deal from any of them.
Another issue with buying from the scam artists identified above is that they are damaging the hobby. So even if you can pick and choose the ‘good deals’, you are helping keep these bad sellers in business so they can take advantage of others. If folks do not care, they can certainly choose to ignore this fact and do as they please. But there are plenty of good sellers to support.
As for the eBay money back, good luck with that. Sure, eBay will refund small chump change but try doing this with a high dollar purchase. I have more than 5 email from people who have been ripped off for over $1000 by the cartel person. The listing shows that the stamp is located in USA but he is simply using a remote shipper. When you try to return the item, you have to ship it back to Great Britain and then he disputes the claim any way. He empties that account (he has well over 50 accounts he rotates under at any given time) so eBay cannot grab the money from him. eBay will NOT refund a buyer on this size transaction UNLESS they can grab the money back from the seller. I have documented cases where he not only makes off with the money but also gets the stamp back. The victims here in the US simply are not going to hire international investigators and lawyers to chase someone half way across the world. eBay looks the other way with convicted criminals like him and he is ripping people off every month.
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Thanks again to the folks who posted over the last day or so; I'm sure getting lots of good info and advice.
Musicman: Just U.S. I collected worldwide stamps as a kid and would order them on approval. What fun it was to get those letters in the mail. I have fond memories of bright colors, triangle shapes, and other things I'd never seen before.
Michael (spikola): Where are you in MA? I'm in Boston (Charlestown). Maybe we could get acquainted at a show some time.
51Stude & pigdoc: Thanks for the great input on these questionable eBay sellers. Also your link to stampcommunity.org was very informative. I think I'll avoid the sellers mentioned except maybe for modern issues. However, it sounds like some of them have dozens of seller names so how I'll recognize them I have no idea. (Pigdoc, can I assume you are a swine vet.?)
Dennis
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Yes, keeping up with the cartel names is a full time job. He buys many existing eBay accounts with high feedback score (yes, there is a thriving 3rd party market for selling eBay accounts) accounts so new ones occasionally pop up out of the blue. You can search on the other forum on ‘British cartel’ or even Google the same and get a day’s or two worth of reading.
There are a few hallmarks of the his listings. He typically lists high value stamps and start then at $0.01. The listings will typically have a US location one the primary page but if you click on the feedback you will notice that he is located in Great Britain. If you search for previous listings of individual stamps you will find that the same stamp has ‘sold’ multiple times.
We have documented many cases were he has purchased high value (greater than US $500) stamps at major auctions, altered them (typically he buys lightly hinged stamps and then carefully airbrushed the hinge mark) and then lists them starting at $0.01. Now ask yourself who would drop greater than US $500 on a stamp only to turn around and list it starting at $0.01? He only does this because he know he will use one of his other accounts to bid (shill bid) it up over what he has in it. He is a convicted felon but he is not stupid. He has been doing this for decades; eBay Security and trust has previously removed him multiple times but he come back under new names. The issue here is that eBay does not vet accounts at all, they cannot send people to everyone house to see if they are who they say they are.
But be rest assured that if you have bid and purchased one of his listings you paid what he wanted you to pay since you were bidding against one of his shill accounts.
eBay marketing works very hard to try to influence buyers and it works. I just posted this comment in the other thread…
"You know, being a wet blanket sucks too. I hate that we have to constantly tell people that come to online communities that they have been screwed. It gets weary being the messenger, being accused of only being jealous, etc. I have always been a person who believes that ignorance is a voluntary handicap, but we really need to counter balance the power of the eBay marketing machine. The effectiveness of their marketing influence with the 'buy from people you don't know half way around the world sight unseen' is impressive, overwhelming, and damaging our hobby."
Don
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Just a thought on NYSTAMPS. Like Pigdoc, I have bought a lot from them. They do a ton of volume, not only US but worldwide stamps, coins and even jewelry.
Note that their MO is that they provide a photo, front and back of each stamp, and tell you to bid according to the photos, no description. I find that the reverse photo of mint stamps often has glare or otherwise is too small to make a determination. I copy and paste those photos into IrfanView where I can blow them up to examine.
That said, I have only bought face different stamps from them, not varieties of say Washington / Franklin series. I don't buy mint never hinged, I'd suspect those as regummed, in that case I like a good honest hinge mark or two! I did buy some of my Columbians and other commemoratives of that era from them. I bid low and see what I get. They do have a big following so their stuff does get bid up, but occasionally I get lucky.
They must buy a lot of stamp collections, and I have a feeling that they are not in the stamp alteration business, they're just processing stuff in great volume as they find it. Old collections have those fakes and altered stamps in them, just as Carl Berky found same in his lifelong collection as he was selling it off. I've also bought their misc lots of US stamps, which include a grand variety of stamps that weren't worth their effort to list individually. In the last one I bought, there was more in face value on the mint stamps than I paid.
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I purchase lower value worldwide material from nystamps but would not consider for more high end material. I have no complaints with my purchases. I also have learned to study the images carefully especially on lots.
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Don, I have read through a lot of the posts linked to the various sites regarding Ryle's business dealings but wonder why ebay are not making use of the IP address to link his accounts.
Not being computer savyy does it mean he is using multiple computers or linking through one server with his actual address masked?
I would imagine that anyone using the dark web would get away with hiding their location but would he go to that length. (probably yes with the money he is making)
Going back to the other forums, there did not seem to be a link to a list of all his known aliases but a number of shorter lists within the posts. Possibly I missed the list.
Just wondering why his server has not been shut down or incapacitated by the authorities who are no doubt aware of his dubious business practices.
Puzzled, would appreciate your technical knowledge. (or of anyone else)
Vic
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The only issues I have seen with NYSTAMPS is that you do have to be careful in buying collections that the visible stamps alone are worth what you are bidding to you as you cannot assume any useful additions are present.
Definitely some of the images presented are inadequate for evaluating stamps and a good description would be more useful.
Given these caveats I find them very helpful as a dealer.
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NY Stamps finally added to their terms and conditions "Some stamp may be expertly repaired' (after we leaned on them for two years to stop selling repaired crap). You can take what they say to the bank, they 'repair' stamps. They sell some of the worse repaired crap online and are doing the 'repairs' themselves. They have no bargains, they are scamming buyers. If you float the purchases you make you will uncover the 'repairs', I can show you listings where stamps have floated into several pieces when soaked. But most collector simply think they got a great deal and mount the stamps in their album.
Why would anyone buy anything from them when they clearly state they are selling faulty stamps?
I have no heartburn if folks are buying this crap and understand they are buying fillers. If everyone understands that they should not be paying more than 5% of catalog for the crap NYStamps sells, then go for it.
But NY Stamps is making a killing with deceptive listings, posting high catalog values in the titles, selling cleaned used stamp as mint no gum, repairing and hiding serious faults. They INTENTIONALLY use poor, low resolution back images. I would say that 95% of their Washington/Franklins are misidentified. They know this, they are doing it intentionally. Do not believe for a second that this is about 'volume' sellers or that they have worker bees who do not know what they are doing. They have been pitching that BS for years to us, even when we give them undisputable evidence that a listing is deceptive or total misidentified, they do not care.
Again, folks can choose to support these seller if they choose; other folks care about the hobby and choose to not support them. For ever dollar that you spend with a scammer means it is a dollar that does not go to support the sellers who are working hard to do things correctly.
Also keep mind that while you may fill that empty spot in your album, chances are high that it is not the catalog number you think it is and/or the value is next to nothing. Parking your bad buys on your family with the expectation that your collection is worth a lot of money is a horrible thing to do them. If anyone has purchased a lot of material from these sellers please make sure your family knows that your collection is full of stamp of very questionable value.
Don
Edit: I do not want to spam the forum but here are just a handful of the HUNDREDS of deceptive listings from NYSTamps
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/21454.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/29537.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/15230.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/14860.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/27420.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/28711.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/27820.jpg
http://www.stampsmarter.com/screen/39.jpg
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"...why ebay are not making use of the IP address to link his accounts..."
He uses VPNs and other IP address redirectors, this is hacker 101. It is very easy to mask your IP address. He also uses business address spoofing so that it looks like you are buying from a US location. eBay has no reason to hunt these people down, it would cost a lot of time and money. Plus they collect income when he does rip someone off.
Starting an eBay business is the number one thing to do for criminals. In fact, if you buy books or look online this is what they advise criminals to do when they get release from prison. Go start listing stuff on eBay.
Why does anyone bother trying to build high feedback, simply go to http://ebayselleraccounts.com (or one of many other sites) and buy yourself an existing account.
Don
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Thanks Don, figured there must be a good reason. Just wondered what it was.
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After re-reading my posts above I realize that they come across as being harsh. I apologize for that. For the last 4 years or so many of us have worked hard at helping folks make more informed buying decisions. It has been very common to hear stories about hobbyists who have built collections from some of these sellers. We also hear from families who are crushed to find out the collection they were told was worth a lot of money is not worth much at all.
Bill Weiss spent the last years of his life trying to address this issue. I helped him review and contact over 1200 eBay sellers with deceptive listings and we barely scratched the surface. Bill made the same offer to each one of them, he would pay for the certification of their stamp with any organization they wanted if the stamp was as described. 1200 times. Not once did any of them accept his offer.
Of course a small amount of stuff they sell is legitimate or as described; the question is what percentage. In going through years of Bill’s certification records (over 8000 of them) NY Stamps only got clean certs 24-25% of the time. Anthony’s was worse. I implore everyone to do their homework on these sellers. I hate sending folks off this community but please go reads the other forums. (Believe me, I have to hold my nose when I read the ‘down under’ forum’.) You will find the horror stories and other evidence that you need to know to make better buying decisions. If you do not believe me, then please ask some of the experts like Clark Frazier, Eric Jackson, or Ken Lawrence. These are some of the people who also deal with the fallout, upset hobbyists and their families, after being taken by sellers like NY Stamps, Anthony’s, and the cartel.
Don
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Again, Welcome Dennis!
I have been following this thread with some interest. The advise here is good. Do your home work before you start putting large amounts of money into your collection. There are bargains on eBay. I haven't dealt with the "Cartel" but the listings I see shared about their dodgy stamps haven't fooled me. nystamps and ckstamps have some bargains in their US and Canada stamps but be cautious before bidding. If the photos are iffy then that is reason not to bid.
Decide if you are a collector of investor. If you want to invest I would suggest deal with reputable dealers and auction firms and use an agent when bidding in auctions, it is well worth the investment. One of the ways to tell if the dealer or auction firm is reputable is if they are members of the APS and/or The American Stamp Dealers Association.
Invest in literature to help educate yourself. There are many books that are useful and available for free downloads.
Take your time and have fun collecting.
I am mainly a collector but I also consider myself an investor. I have left instructions in my will concerning my collections and how to dispose of them when the time comes. I also left a list of dealers who to go to and especially who to stay away from. I recommended to use my auction (Purser) agent because he has a good idea of what I paid for many of stamps and covers in my collection.
Vince
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Some of the dealers mentioned are members of ASDA. I have not seen any posts if anyone has reported them and any findings.
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If these dealers are members of APS or ASDA and are selling faulty stamps and not refunding money paid, they should be reported to their organisations that they belong to.
What dealers are you talking about?
Vince
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Welcome aboard to the forum Dennis, and I am sure you will have your questions answered to the best of everyone's ability and expertise. I hope you will enjoy it in here?
Chimo
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Boy my new member introduction has turned into a fascinating and informative discussion of fakes, repairs, and deceptive practices. It almost makes me want to sell my stamps and collect postcards or MacDonald's Happy Meal toys!
I'm resigned to the fact that I have no business buying any expensive stamps off of eBay because I simply don't have the knowledge to make informed decisions. However, I'll stick it out here and also keep reading and asking questions. For the time being I'll stick to $2 stamps from eBay.
Dennis
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