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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Album Holes

 

Author
Postings
dell4c

05 Apr 2018
02:09:51pm

Auctions - Approvals
I was preparing a list of wants for a upcoming show and realized that there are holes in my album pages I will never fill. I use the Steiner pages for the countries I collect and was going through the French Morocco pages and noting the Scott number along with the mint and used catalog prices. When I got to the semi postals I found B1 was $22,500 and $26,000.

Having recently got my French West Africa to within one affordable missing stamp I guess it struck me that this county would never come to completion with these pages. Also I just visited a friend who collects and he makes his own pages. When looking though his Egypt I noticed he hadn't left a space for the high value 1938 royal wedding. I asked about it and he said he would likely never own one so why leave a space?

All this has got me wondering about what other collectors do with album holes they will never fill in? I know there are lots scattered throughout my albums but this has got me thinking more about it. I am considering using AlbumEasy and reworking some pages to just drop issues like the Fr Morocco B1 because I like the thought of being able to finish a country and being able to flip through the pages without seeing holes that I'll never fill.

What do you guys do with these empty spaces or don't they bug you?


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michael78651
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05 Apr 2018
02:45:13pm
re: Album Holes

They don't bug me.

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sheepshanks
Members Picture


05 Apr 2018
03:25:50pm
re: Album Holes

I tend to only print the pages I have stamps for but the odd missing stamp or empty space is not a problem.
I have recently been filling an old Davo GB album and have been cursing Gibbons for changing the colour description that is printed compared with the one in the catalogue. Had to go through my concise and enter the cat. number on the page before I could mount a load of Machins. mind you it has taken me about 25 or so years to get this far, thought I had better get some mounted before I pop my clogs.

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ChrisW
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APS# 175366

05 Apr 2018
03:52:35pm
re: Album Holes

I collect worldwide up to 1940 using the Scott International album so that a "complete" collection is at least doable, yet still a challenge with over 35,000 spaces.Happy


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StamperMA
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05 Apr 2018
04:11:16pm
re: Album Holes

I think empty holes are nothing to be ashamed of and in fact keep you humble and focused on the next acquisition.

I bought the hardbound auction catalog for the David Wingate collection of U.S. stamps that comes to auction in a couple of days. $1,000 stamps are chump change and even his inverted Jenny is not the most expensive stamp to be sold. Given all varieties he collected I'd be willing to bet there were a few empty holes in his collection too.

Also, I remember when I began collecting as a teenager if a stamps was a couple of dollars there was a hole because it was not in my budget. Maybe Dell4c that $22,000 B1 will be a manageable purchase some day!

Dennis

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angore
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Collector, Moderator

05 Apr 2018
05:28:37pm
re: Album Holes

Holes do not bother me. If you want something to put there, print out an image and mount that. Call it a space filler.

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tooler
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05 Apr 2018
05:47:59pm
re: Album Holes

If I didn't have holes I wouldn't have anything to collectLaughing

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rwillis29
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05 Apr 2018
06:03:08pm
re: Album Holes

I have seen collections With pictures of the stamps put in place of the empty spaces. It filled in all the holes and he would replace them when he got a stamp. Some of the stamps looked real. That way no empty spots and can look nice.
Keep on Stamping Richard

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

05 Apr 2018
11:12:24pm
re: Album Holes

My primary collection is US. I collect all press and major type differences, but I don't collect trivial perforation differences, rare paper types, watermarks, grills, or pre-Civil War "type differences" that are all on the same plate! I printed my own pages for definitives through the 3rd Bureau to eliminate those VERY expensive items that are just rare paper, rare grill, rare shade of pink, etc. I ended up printing my own pages for all the definitives after that because I wanted MORE than what the pre-printed pages had, like wet/dry printing, press differences on Transportation coils, etc. I also collect plate number singles for most type differences, so I needed a bigger footprint. Everything was too much and face different was not enough for my preferences.

For Commemoratives and Airmail, I mostly used the preprinted pages.

I have 4 "holes" in my US albums. I leave the 2 definitives blank to remind me that some day I hope to fill them. The other two missing stamps are State Department Officials and there are proofs that are quite affordable and make dandy space fillers. I may never replace those. I leave the two definitives blank because I don't want to lose focus on filling those holes!

So I didn't just print pages to match what I had, but I tried to develop a coherent collecting philosophy that avoided the impossible stamps needed to complete the collection.

I have been working on a presentation for several years and have hundreds of pages of notes, charts, graphs, etc. I don't have it ready for Prime Time, but the bottom line for a US collection through December 31, 1999, using 2008 Scott Specialized CV is this:

Total CV: $7,521,178

Seven and a half MILLION dollars. I'm out.

I broke down the components of that $7.5 million and found out:

$3,780,250 for Z grills
$1,739,045 for reprints
$643,253 for A-E grills
$425,506 for paper types (including watermarks)
$344,000 for 2nd Bureau coils
$308,290 for perforation varieties
$194,636 for mostly pre-Civil War varieties that were largely contrived by Ashbrook

That leaves

$86,198 for everything else. Not cheap, but possible over a lifetime.

Breaking down that $86K:

$26,778 F + H/I grills
$12,000 #485 5c red error (interestingly "only" $8,000 in 2016 Scott)
$6,506 watermarks

So if you forego grills, watermarks, and #485, now we're down to a CV of $40,914.

That's less than twice the Face Different CV of $25,800, and the more expensive items can be had at a percentage of CV based on your collecting needs. I'm generally happy with the quality at 25% CV and the few items I bought for 10-15% CV will likely be replaced some day (and I will sell the place holders to someone else with a blank spot).

So let's assume you pay 75% of CV for half the items (the cheap ones) and 25% of CV for the other half. That works out to $20,457. That's $85.24 per month over 20 years, $56.83 per month over 30 years, $42.62 per month over 40 years.

And those numbers are consistent with my experience collecting US.

Lars


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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

06 Apr 2018
03:25:15am
re: Album Holes

" ... So let's assume you pay 75% of CV for half the items
(the cheap ones) and 25% of CV for the other half. ..."


I'd estimate something less than 20% of CL for inexpensive
because I have bought quite a few semi-filled albums
and moved the issues over to my Minkus Supreme.
Of course the obvious gems are creamed, but the owners,
relying on Scotts' guestinate and the auctioneer's
often polyannaish estamate can be misleading. But real bargains can be had, and filling those countries low cat stamps, in bulk is very inexpensive. Studying the numbers carefully for a few month is essential

Frequently lots with 1,00o - 2,000 CL or EST, sell at 10% to 15%

An example from last month's auction.

Two lots of North Borneo with a est $6.700 for both somd for about $700 or about 10%
The owner's calculation of the CL was abt $5,500
Of course I culled a few particular lots and some did go for 20-40% of Scotts CL. A few, peobably due to two stubborn bidders sold at the Est or above the Estimates.

I think they sometimes pull these estimates from a place where the Sun seldom shines. but the CL in a recent Scott can be verified.
I've gotten several lote from there auction an have yet to be dissatisfied. Quite often I find some really good set or item that has a good retail value were I to sell it.

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angore
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Collector, Moderator

06 Apr 2018
06:31:29am
re: Album Holes

"estimate something less than 20% of CL for inexpensive
because I have bought quite a few semi-filled albums
"



There is a trade-off between acquiring at 20% CV since you likely accumulate a lot of dupes. If you can dispose of them at acquisition price, you actually get 20% CV but if you dump the dupes your actual cost for stamps is higher.

For example, pay 20% and use 50% of stamps or pay 40%CV and use 90% if stamps.
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smauggie
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06 Apr 2018
09:47:40am
re: Album Holes

At one time I made a crude facsimile of the GB £5 orange stamp and put it in my album. It is the only time I have done that though.

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canalzonepostalhistory.wordpress.com
BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

07 Apr 2018
10:49:12am

Approvals
re: Album Holes

Regarding holes, like most of us I find that the thrill is in the hunt and acquisition of stamps. Once I get one, I put it in my album and I'm off to the new quest. I fear the day that I have everything.. what would I do?


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Guthrum
Members Picture


07 Apr 2018
01:12:45pm
re: Album Holes

These 'holes' come in two types: those for which CV (and dealers' asking prices) are way beyond both pocket and common sense, and those for which CV is comparatively low, but no dealer anywhere in the world has ever had any in stock.

For the former I have taken to noting their existence briefly on my (self-made) album pages, with stern comments in small print such as "These stamps catalogue at many thousands of pounds and do not feature in this album". For the latter I leave blank rectangles. The size of these I measure according to the degree of reduction in the image displayed in the catalogue, a calculation which too often proves wrong and requires the whole page re-doing.

More frequent is the case of a set qualifying for more than one of my albums. For example, if a set was designed by Ivan Dubasov ('Dubasov' album) and printed in recess ('Recess' album), and was issued during WW2 ('WW2' album) then I do occasionally print off photocopies and mount them hinged, with an explanation such as, "The original set may be found in such-and-such an album". This is not wholly satisfactory, so occasionally just the explanation remains.

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DannyS
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08 Apr 2018
11:03:24pm
re: Album Holes

Yesterday I saw some pages made by a dealer in Thai revenue sets with the very expensive stamps replaced with printed replicas. They had been printed with a black background to match the mount so the fake perforations looked almost genuine.

My first reaction was shock, but he was open about them being replicas as the price of the page would have increased by a factor of at least a thousand. I still haven't decide whether it's good way of using the cheap home printing we can do nowadays. If I did it I think I would print "replica" on the replica.

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angore
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Collector, Moderator

09 Apr 2018
06:59:16am
re: Album Holes

Holes sounds so negative. They are album opportunities.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

10 Apr 2018
12:25:21am
re: Album Holes

"Regarding holes, like most of us I find that the thrill is in the hunt and acquisition of stamps. Once I get one, I put it in my album and I'm off to the new quest. I fear the day that I have everything.. what would I do?"



Start a topical collection, of course!

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philb
Members Picture


10 Apr 2018
03:20:35pm

Auctions
re: Album Holes

My 9 Scott International albums will always have spaces..even full pages of empty spaces, so i collect the stamps that give me pleasure.

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cougar
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11 Apr 2018
07:28:05pm

Approvals
re: Album Holes

I use stock books, not albums. This way I am in control of all empty spots.Happy

The main reason is, there are so many stamps I am not trying to collect.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

11 Apr 2018
10:51:11pm
re: Album Holes

"There are so many stamps I am not trying to collect."



cougar, I so hope to get there some day! I'm still stuck on:

"There are so many stamps I am trying NOT to collect."



Lars

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Author/Postings
dell4c

05 Apr 2018
02:09:51pm

Auctions - Approvals

I was preparing a list of wants for a upcoming show and realized that there are holes in my album pages I will never fill. I use the Steiner pages for the countries I collect and was going through the French Morocco pages and noting the Scott number along with the mint and used catalog prices. When I got to the semi postals I found B1 was $22,500 and $26,000.

Having recently got my French West Africa to within one affordable missing stamp I guess it struck me that this county would never come to completion with these pages. Also I just visited a friend who collects and he makes his own pages. When looking though his Egypt I noticed he hadn't left a space for the high value 1938 royal wedding. I asked about it and he said he would likely never own one so why leave a space?

All this has got me wondering about what other collectors do with album holes they will never fill in? I know there are lots scattered throughout my albums but this has got me thinking more about it. I am considering using AlbumEasy and reworking some pages to just drop issues like the Fr Morocco B1 because I like the thought of being able to finish a country and being able to flip through the pages without seeing holes that I'll never fill.

What do you guys do with these empty spaces or don't they bug you?


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michael78651

05 Apr 2018
02:45:13pm

re: Album Holes

They don't bug me.

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sheepshanks

05 Apr 2018
03:25:50pm

re: Album Holes

I tend to only print the pages I have stamps for but the odd missing stamp or empty space is not a problem.
I have recently been filling an old Davo GB album and have been cursing Gibbons for changing the colour description that is printed compared with the one in the catalogue. Had to go through my concise and enter the cat. number on the page before I could mount a load of Machins. mind you it has taken me about 25 or so years to get this far, thought I had better get some mounted before I pop my clogs.

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ChrisW

APS# 175366
05 Apr 2018
03:52:35pm

re: Album Holes

I collect worldwide up to 1940 using the Scott International album so that a "complete" collection is at least doable, yet still a challenge with over 35,000 spaces.Happy


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"Collecting worldwide classic era stamps"
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StamperMA

05 Apr 2018
04:11:16pm

re: Album Holes

I think empty holes are nothing to be ashamed of and in fact keep you humble and focused on the next acquisition.

I bought the hardbound auction catalog for the David Wingate collection of U.S. stamps that comes to auction in a couple of days. $1,000 stamps are chump change and even his inverted Jenny is not the most expensive stamp to be sold. Given all varieties he collected I'd be willing to bet there were a few empty holes in his collection too.

Also, I remember when I began collecting as a teenager if a stamps was a couple of dollars there was a hole because it was not in my budget. Maybe Dell4c that $22,000 B1 will be a manageable purchase some day!

Dennis

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angore

Collector, Moderator
05 Apr 2018
05:28:37pm

re: Album Holes

Holes do not bother me. If you want something to put there, print out an image and mount that. Call it a space filler.

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tooler

05 Apr 2018
05:47:59pm

re: Album Holes

If I didn't have holes I wouldn't have anything to collectLaughing

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rwillis29

05 Apr 2018
06:03:08pm

re: Album Holes

I have seen collections With pictures of the stamps put in place of the empty spaces. It filled in all the holes and he would replace them when he got a stamp. Some of the stamps looked real. That way no empty spots and can look nice.
Keep on Stamping Richard

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
05 Apr 2018
11:12:24pm

re: Album Holes

My primary collection is US. I collect all press and major type differences, but I don't collect trivial perforation differences, rare paper types, watermarks, grills, or pre-Civil War "type differences" that are all on the same plate! I printed my own pages for definitives through the 3rd Bureau to eliminate those VERY expensive items that are just rare paper, rare grill, rare shade of pink, etc. I ended up printing my own pages for all the definitives after that because I wanted MORE than what the pre-printed pages had, like wet/dry printing, press differences on Transportation coils, etc. I also collect plate number singles for most type differences, so I needed a bigger footprint. Everything was too much and face different was not enough for my preferences.

For Commemoratives and Airmail, I mostly used the preprinted pages.

I have 4 "holes" in my US albums. I leave the 2 definitives blank to remind me that some day I hope to fill them. The other two missing stamps are State Department Officials and there are proofs that are quite affordable and make dandy space fillers. I may never replace those. I leave the two definitives blank because I don't want to lose focus on filling those holes!

So I didn't just print pages to match what I had, but I tried to develop a coherent collecting philosophy that avoided the impossible stamps needed to complete the collection.

I have been working on a presentation for several years and have hundreds of pages of notes, charts, graphs, etc. I don't have it ready for Prime Time, but the bottom line for a US collection through December 31, 1999, using 2008 Scott Specialized CV is this:

Total CV: $7,521,178

Seven and a half MILLION dollars. I'm out.

I broke down the components of that $7.5 million and found out:

$3,780,250 for Z grills
$1,739,045 for reprints
$643,253 for A-E grills
$425,506 for paper types (including watermarks)
$344,000 for 2nd Bureau coils
$308,290 for perforation varieties
$194,636 for mostly pre-Civil War varieties that were largely contrived by Ashbrook

That leaves

$86,198 for everything else. Not cheap, but possible over a lifetime.

Breaking down that $86K:

$26,778 F + H/I grills
$12,000 #485 5c red error (interestingly "only" $8,000 in 2016 Scott)
$6,506 watermarks

So if you forego grills, watermarks, and #485, now we're down to a CV of $40,914.

That's less than twice the Face Different CV of $25,800, and the more expensive items can be had at a percentage of CV based on your collecting needs. I'm generally happy with the quality at 25% CV and the few items I bought for 10-15% CV will likely be replaced some day (and I will sell the place holders to someone else with a blank spot).

So let's assume you pay 75% of CV for half the items (the cheap ones) and 25% of CV for the other half. That works out to $20,457. That's $85.24 per month over 20 years, $56.83 per month over 30 years, $42.62 per month over 40 years.

And those numbers are consistent with my experience collecting US.

Lars


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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
06 Apr 2018
03:25:15am

re: Album Holes

" ... So let's assume you pay 75% of CV for half the items
(the cheap ones) and 25% of CV for the other half. ..."


I'd estimate something less than 20% of CL for inexpensive
because I have bought quite a few semi-filled albums
and moved the issues over to my Minkus Supreme.
Of course the obvious gems are creamed, but the owners,
relying on Scotts' guestinate and the auctioneer's
often polyannaish estamate can be misleading. But real bargains can be had, and filling those countries low cat stamps, in bulk is very inexpensive. Studying the numbers carefully for a few month is essential

Frequently lots with 1,00o - 2,000 CL or EST, sell at 10% to 15%

An example from last month's auction.

Two lots of North Borneo with a est $6.700 for both somd for about $700 or about 10%
The owner's calculation of the CL was abt $5,500
Of course I culled a few particular lots and some did go for 20-40% of Scotts CL. A few, peobably due to two stubborn bidders sold at the Est or above the Estimates.

I think they sometimes pull these estimates from a place where the Sun seldom shines. but the CL in a recent Scott can be verified.
I've gotten several lote from there auction an have yet to be dissatisfied. Quite often I find some really good set or item that has a good retail value were I to sell it.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
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angore

Collector, Moderator
06 Apr 2018
06:31:29am

re: Album Holes

"estimate something less than 20% of CL for inexpensive
because I have bought quite a few semi-filled albums
"



There is a trade-off between acquiring at 20% CV since you likely accumulate a lot of dupes. If you can dispose of them at acquisition price, you actually get 20% CV but if you dump the dupes your actual cost for stamps is higher.

For example, pay 20% and use 50% of stamps or pay 40%CV and use 90% if stamps.
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"Stamp Collecting is a many splendored thing"
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smauggie

06 Apr 2018
09:47:40am

re: Album Holes

At one time I made a crude facsimile of the GB £5 orange stamp and put it in my album. It is the only time I have done that though.

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canalzonepostalhisto ...
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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
07 Apr 2018
10:49:12am

Approvals

re: Album Holes

Regarding holes, like most of us I find that the thrill is in the hunt and acquisition of stamps. Once I get one, I put it in my album and I'm off to the new quest. I fear the day that I have everything.. what would I do?


Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Guthrum

07 Apr 2018
01:12:45pm

re: Album Holes

These 'holes' come in two types: those for which CV (and dealers' asking prices) are way beyond both pocket and common sense, and those for which CV is comparatively low, but no dealer anywhere in the world has ever had any in stock.

For the former I have taken to noting their existence briefly on my (self-made) album pages, with stern comments in small print such as "These stamps catalogue at many thousands of pounds and do not feature in this album". For the latter I leave blank rectangles. The size of these I measure according to the degree of reduction in the image displayed in the catalogue, a calculation which too often proves wrong and requires the whole page re-doing.

More frequent is the case of a set qualifying for more than one of my albums. For example, if a set was designed by Ivan Dubasov ('Dubasov' album) and printed in recess ('Recess' album), and was issued during WW2 ('WW2' album) then I do occasionally print off photocopies and mount them hinged, with an explanation such as, "The original set may be found in such-and-such an album". This is not wholly satisfactory, so occasionally just the explanation remains.

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DannyS

08 Apr 2018
11:03:24pm

re: Album Holes

Yesterday I saw some pages made by a dealer in Thai revenue sets with the very expensive stamps replaced with printed replicas. They had been printed with a black background to match the mount so the fake perforations looked almost genuine.

My first reaction was shock, but he was open about them being replicas as the price of the page would have increased by a factor of at least a thousand. I still haven't decide whether it's good way of using the cheap home printing we can do nowadays. If I did it I think I would print "replica" on the replica.

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angore

Collector, Moderator
09 Apr 2018
06:59:16am

re: Album Holes

Holes sounds so negative. They are album opportunities.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
10 Apr 2018
12:25:21am

re: Album Holes

"Regarding holes, like most of us I find that the thrill is in the hunt and acquisition of stamps. Once I get one, I put it in my album and I'm off to the new quest. I fear the day that I have everything.. what would I do?"



Start a topical collection, of course!

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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philb

10 Apr 2018
03:20:35pm

Auctions

re: Album Holes

My 9 Scott International albums will always have spaces..even full pages of empty spaces, so i collect the stamps that give me pleasure.

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"If a man would be anything, he must be himself."
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cougar

11 Apr 2018
07:28:05pm

Approvals

re: Album Holes

I use stock books, not albums. This way I am in control of all empty spots.Happy

The main reason is, there are so many stamps I am not trying to collect.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
11 Apr 2018
10:51:11pm

re: Album Holes

"There are so many stamps I am not trying to collect."



cougar, I so hope to get there some day! I'm still stuck on:

"There are so many stamps I am trying NOT to collect."



Lars

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