Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Hi to all,
All though this variety is a bit rusted on the edge, it is unusual
The bottom right hand corner is missing some colour.
It was in my families accumulation of old stamps.
Has anyone else seen this variety, and do they have a unitrade number for it.
Regards
Horamakhet
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Due to sunlight bleaching most likely.
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I tend to agree with Antonio -
a damaged stamp.
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Hi
If it was sunlight bleaching then all of the colour would be possibly be missing
It has been in a container for the Las eighty years & I transferred some Victorian Canadian stamps to a stock book
I will examine it with a microscope when I get time
But anything is possible
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11:24:06am
It is apparently a striking variety, however upon checking a half dozen of my specialized Canada reference books, I can find no mention of such a variety.
The presence of the toning in the same corner calls into question what may have happened to the stamp in the nearly 120 years since its issuance and use. Even knowing that it was neatly stored for the last 80 years leaves the first 40 to wonder about.
Who knows, maybe it was an ancient experiment with bleach or other compound to attempt to create a variety.
Roy
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""...anything is possible...""
True.
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Hi to all
I have examined the stamp under UV light, LW and SW, it shows no evidence of tampering.
I have also examined it with ten X loupe and a stereo microscope.
It shows no evidence of tampering, no bleaching by agents, so It is possibly some sort of freak, that possibly missed being properly inked.
But who knows what happens with stamps.
Horamakhet
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Horamakhet - In what specific way did you determine that there was "no bleaching by agents"?
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If you think you have something, you most ask for a certificat... in Canadian stamps I recommended, specialy for the "Victoria" era, "Richard Gratton", contact the "Fédération Québécoise de Philatélie" (F.Q.P.) , they will give you is Email....
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Hi smauggie
I am a gemmologist and an Archaeolgist, and we use UV lights all the time, particularly in Gemmology.
Also banks use use uv lights to see if banknotes are counterfeit or forged, or tampered.
Now with paper, if any bleaching or staining has occurred it will show as patches under the uv light, and also pottery and gemstones react as well.
On the paper there is no patchiness or indications of bleaching. Also if it was sun bleached it would affect all the stamp in different parts, not just one corner.
When examined under the stereo microscope it shows no evidence of any colour having been present at any time. I have gone up as far as 20X.
I can see the embossing of the figure one quite clearly under the microscope as well.
This leads me to believe that it may be an new variety.
Thanks timbres for the address, I will email them.
All suggestions are always welcome, eveything is a learning experience.
Regards
Horamakhet
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I'm sorry, but I'm sticking with sun bleaching.
I've seen all kinds of missing designs, caused by stamps overlaying one another. However, I've rarely seen any missing printing apparently curved to the design of the stamp.
I can't see how this could occur in the printing process.
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Hi DaveSheridan
I respect your opinion, but I do not think it is sun bleaching, for that to happen it would have had to be a stamp torn or cut to the shape of the missing ink.
Regards
Horamakhet
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Which I would still think to be the more likely scenario of the two
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For me, the facts that we do know for sure
1. this is a used stamp, not a mint stamp
2. the stamp has obviously lead a hard life
3. the stamp is badly toned, so we know that it has seen poor/harsh environmental conditions
4. there is some kind of brown discoloration at lower right
5. there are no other known stamps with a variety like this after 100+ years
Given the facts above, it would seem highly unlikely that a new variety would be declared based upon this stamp alone. Keep in mind that ‘extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence’, this used stamp simply has far too many questions.
But I hope I am wrong, please let us know the results when you get them back.
Don
P.S. - not all chemically altered stamps will fluoresce
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Hi 51Studebaker and all others.
First I respect all opinions.
As a Rare book collector as well, I have seen some unknown copies of rare books turn up, including two copies of the Gutenberg Bible and a copy of the Bay Psalm Book and a first folio Shakespeare.
In fact, I discovered a copy of a rare book, that previously only three copies were known to exist, and that was in my families library, for hundreds of years, but it is not something that I would sell, as my library is a record of knowledge which I will pass onto to my children.And as far as the world knows, there are now four copies. ( I will not name the book, but those who collect such rare items, know of its existence, as well as the Vatican Library and the British Museum Library)
There are always new discoveries happening all the time.
No one believed the Z Grill on the USA stamp was genuine, but it was, then another turned up, and that sold for nearly one million USA dollars.
You have probably not heard the story of how after 100 years a new variety of a stamp turned up in Australia, and made world headlines. Many persons at first said it was a forgery, but on this one copy alone it was declared a new and genuine variety.
But it did happen. The copy was in poor condition, but none the less it was proved to be a genuine variety.
It sold for many tens of thousands thousands of Australian dollars.
Then ten years later, another copy of the stamp turned up, in much better condition than the first copy.
This stamp was certified as genuine.
The brown discolourisation is probably rust, which is a common occurence in stamps, and is a type of mould, which can be successfully removed by authorities in the field. (I never use the word experts, but I prefer the word expertise, as new discoveries are made all the time, and makes experts look silly)
No one thought a genuine Leonardo Da Vinci painting could or would turn up in private hands, but the owner spent ten years having it tested and it was pronounce genuine and sold for half a billion dollars.
Nothing is impossible, and there are probably hundreds of new varieties out there just waiting to be discovered.
The world was amazed when a pair of chinese vase which many authorities thought were fake, were proved to be genuine and sold for 57 million dollars.
In Canada the large two cent Queen, I think there were three copies, then another turned up in a circuit book that was certified as genuine.
Yes these occurences are rare, but they do happen, and will always happen.
I too hope that perhaps it is a new variety, and I will keep all informed as to the results.
Thank you 51 Studebaker for your statement of hope.
Henry David Theroux the famous philosopher said.
"It is alright to build your castles in the clouds, so long as you keep your foundations on the ground."
Regards
Horamakhet.
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Hi to all,
All though this variety is a bit rusted on the edge, it is unusual
The bottom right hand corner is missing some colour.
It was in my families accumulation of old stamps.
Has anyone else seen this variety, and do they have a unitrade number for it.
Regards
Horamakhet
Login to Like
this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
Due to sunlight bleaching most likely.
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this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
I tend to agree with Antonio -
a damaged stamp.
Login to Like
this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
Hi
If it was sunlight bleaching then all of the colour would be possibly be missing
It has been in a container for the Las eighty years & I transferred some Victorian Canadian stamps to a stock book
I will examine it with a microscope when I get time
But anything is possible
Login to Like
this post
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23 May 2018
11:24:06am
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
It is apparently a striking variety, however upon checking a half dozen of my specialized Canada reference books, I can find no mention of such a variety.
The presence of the toning in the same corner calls into question what may have happened to the stamp in the nearly 120 years since its issuance and use. Even knowing that it was neatly stored for the last 80 years leaves the first 40 to wonder about.
Who knows, maybe it was an ancient experiment with bleach or other compound to attempt to create a variety.
Roy
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
""...anything is possible...""
True.
Login to Like
this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
Hi to all
I have examined the stamp under UV light, LW and SW, it shows no evidence of tampering.
I have also examined it with ten X loupe and a stereo microscope.
It shows no evidence of tampering, no bleaching by agents, so It is possibly some sort of freak, that possibly missed being properly inked.
But who knows what happens with stamps.
Horamakhet
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
Horamakhet - In what specific way did you determine that there was "no bleaching by agents"?
Login to Like
this post
08:20:04pm
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
If you think you have something, you most ask for a certificat... in Canadian stamps I recommended, specialy for the "Victoria" era, "Richard Gratton", contact the "Fédération Québécoise de Philatélie" (F.Q.P.) , they will give you is Email....
Login to Like
this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
Hi smauggie
I am a gemmologist and an Archaeolgist, and we use UV lights all the time, particularly in Gemmology.
Also banks use use uv lights to see if banknotes are counterfeit or forged, or tampered.
Now with paper, if any bleaching or staining has occurred it will show as patches under the uv light, and also pottery and gemstones react as well.
On the paper there is no patchiness or indications of bleaching. Also if it was sun bleached it would affect all the stamp in different parts, not just one corner.
When examined under the stereo microscope it shows no evidence of any colour having been present at any time. I have gone up as far as 20X.
I can see the embossing of the figure one quite clearly under the microscope as well.
This leads me to believe that it may be an new variety.
Thanks timbres for the address, I will email them.
All suggestions are always welcome, eveything is a learning experience.
Regards
Horamakhet
Login to Like
this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
I'm sorry, but I'm sticking with sun bleaching.
I've seen all kinds of missing designs, caused by stamps overlaying one another. However, I've rarely seen any missing printing apparently curved to the design of the stamp.
I can't see how this could occur in the printing process.
Login to Like
this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
Hi DaveSheridan
I respect your opinion, but I do not think it is sun bleaching, for that to happen it would have had to be a stamp torn or cut to the shape of the missing ink.
Regards
Horamakhet
Login to Like
this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
Which I would still think to be the more likely scenario of the two
Login to Like
this post
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
For me, the facts that we do know for sure
1. this is a used stamp, not a mint stamp
2. the stamp has obviously lead a hard life
3. the stamp is badly toned, so we know that it has seen poor/harsh environmental conditions
4. there is some kind of brown discoloration at lower right
5. there are no other known stamps with a variety like this after 100+ years
Given the facts above, it would seem highly unlikely that a new variety would be declared based upon this stamp alone. Keep in mind that ‘extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence’, this used stamp simply has far too many questions.
But I hope I am wrong, please let us know the results when you get them back.
Don
P.S. - not all chemically altered stamps will fluoresce
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: INTERESTING VARIETY
Hi 51Studebaker and all others.
First I respect all opinions.
As a Rare book collector as well, I have seen some unknown copies of rare books turn up, including two copies of the Gutenberg Bible and a copy of the Bay Psalm Book and a first folio Shakespeare.
In fact, I discovered a copy of a rare book, that previously only three copies were known to exist, and that was in my families library, for hundreds of years, but it is not something that I would sell, as my library is a record of knowledge which I will pass onto to my children.And as far as the world knows, there are now four copies. ( I will not name the book, but those who collect such rare items, know of its existence, as well as the Vatican Library and the British Museum Library)
There are always new discoveries happening all the time.
No one believed the Z Grill on the USA stamp was genuine, but it was, then another turned up, and that sold for nearly one million USA dollars.
You have probably not heard the story of how after 100 years a new variety of a stamp turned up in Australia, and made world headlines. Many persons at first said it was a forgery, but on this one copy alone it was declared a new and genuine variety.
But it did happen. The copy was in poor condition, but none the less it was proved to be a genuine variety.
It sold for many tens of thousands thousands of Australian dollars.
Then ten years later, another copy of the stamp turned up, in much better condition than the first copy.
This stamp was certified as genuine.
The brown discolourisation is probably rust, which is a common occurence in stamps, and is a type of mould, which can be successfully removed by authorities in the field. (I never use the word experts, but I prefer the word expertise, as new discoveries are made all the time, and makes experts look silly)
No one thought a genuine Leonardo Da Vinci painting could or would turn up in private hands, but the owner spent ten years having it tested and it was pronounce genuine and sold for half a billion dollars.
Nothing is impossible, and there are probably hundreds of new varieties out there just waiting to be discovered.
The world was amazed when a pair of chinese vase which many authorities thought were fake, were proved to be genuine and sold for 57 million dollars.
In Canada the large two cent Queen, I think there were three copies, then another turned up in a circuit book that was certified as genuine.
Yes these occurences are rare, but they do happen, and will always happen.
I too hope that perhaps it is a new variety, and I will keep all informed as to the results.
Thank you 51 Studebaker for your statement of hope.
Henry David Theroux the famous philosopher said.
"It is alright to build your castles in the clouds, so long as you keep your foundations on the ground."
Regards
Horamakhet.
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