Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I have acquired this super cool cover that is of the subject "Yankee Clipper".
I was unaware that the Yankee Clipper was a ship as well as an airplane. Both favorite topicals for me.
From my research the Yankee Clipper airplane was used for transatlantic flight for the "super-rich", with only the utmost in luxury being incorporated during the flight. Costs per ticket for this flight in today's dollars was about $17,000 per person! Crazy!
------------
This appears to be a Postal Card if I am not mistaken, as it appears to be primarly made of cardstock much like a traditional post card. The back has a short description regarding the Yankee Clipper(s).
Are my assumptions correct? Would it be considered a Postal Card?
Also, why do some cachet makers (this one is Fleetwood) use Postal Cards for some and Envelopes for others? Is there a methodology to it, or just whatever they feel like?
Also, I am unsure of the significance of the postmark of Flushing, New York.
------------
Thanks to all!
Johnny
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Hello Johnny,
I am not real knowledgeable about First Day Covers but the Postal Card is UXC25, an Airmail Postal Card issued on June 28, 1991. The first day of issue was Flushing, NY. According to my 2014 U.S. Specialized Catalog 24,865 First Day Covers were created. The FDC lists for $1.50.
Jim
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JR,
yes, the Yankee Clipper refers to a boat and an airplane, as well as a center fielder.
you're looking at the Boeing 314, one of two major designs for 4-engined amphibious passenger aircraft. Here's specs on the plane: http://www.boeing.com/history/products/model-314-clipper.page
yes, this is a postal card
and, yes, travel on these things was expensive. Postal rates for air mail on these guys was dear, so something wearing a fedora and weighing more than an ounce would likely take well more than the 30c to England.
David
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Flushing, NY is the location of Laguardia Air Port.
In addition to the use of the term "Yankee Clipper", it was also the name of a passenger train operated by the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad.
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Here's a neat little item that I use to lead off my Clipper Mail exhibit:
The first scheduled mail flight to Europe via Trans-Atlantic clipper flight was May 20, 1939, and the sender's date is not much later. Too bad it's not postmarked...
The plane in the painting is marked "NC 18601", the ill-fated Honolulu Clipper, which was sunk in November, 1945...
Enjoy,
-Paul
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Johnny -- I'm not sure one of your questions got answered directly.
When a new postal card was/is issued, first day cover issuers (like Fleetwood, etc), would print a cachet on the postal card.
When a new stamp was/is issued, the FDC issuers would supply their own cacheted envelopes.
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Hi all,
Thanks for your great responses! A remaining question. Why Postal Card vs. Envelope? Or why Envelope vs Postal Card? Personal choice?
----------------
@CactusJack,
Thanks for this information! Sounds like I need a copy of that 2014 U.S. Specialized Catalog, it sounds pretty handy. $1.50! Nice!
----------------
@amsd,
LOL! I forgot about the centerfielder, I did come across that in my research as well. It sounds like this mode of travel was just about as "top end" as you could get. And to think for some, it may have become a fairly routine trip.
----------------
@Michael78561,
I "guess" Laguardia made sense for the stamp release? It appears that Alameda, CA. was where the first flight took off from. Wow, now I did not know that about the passenger train. I'll have to check into whether that is a modern train or one from the old days. I love those 1930's passenger trains!
----------------
@Pigdoc,
That is a GREAT piece there! I'm not sure what Harry Pickins was insinuating in his writing, but one almost wonders if this trip was a bit "routine" for him. I can't make out the word right before his signature. Interesting choice of planes for the painting. I wonder if it crashed afterward or this was a "tribute" item? Interesting!
----------------
@Philatarium,
So for a postal card they would:
1) Obtain a postal card
2) Print a cachet on it
3) Place a stamp on it
Correct?
----------------
Thanks to all for your knowledge, big time!
JR
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this post
Hi Everyone;
You all know how I hate to be a stickler, for minor details so....
Yankee Clipper was a clipper ship in United States service, however I don't believe there was ever a square-rigged ship of that name, it just referred to a ship class. If you Google "Sailing ship named the "Yankee Clipper"", you get photos of both square rigged ships and ships (schooners) with triangular sails.
I believe that Yankee Clipper when referred to a square-rigged sailing ship, referred to a ship of the clipper hull and square sail plan, popular in the Americas and Europe, but "Yankee" simply referred to a clipper ship of American registry, and so could refer to any number of vessels.
There was a schooner by the name of "Yankee Clipper" with triangular sails:
Yankee Clipper is a three masted sailing cruise ship that served for Windjammer Barefoot Cruises, the failed cruise line. She was originally built in Kiel, Germany as the Cressida, an armor plated private yacht. She was a prize in World War II. She was acquired by the Vanderbilts and was renamed Pioneer. In 1965, the ship was acquired by Windjammer Barefoot cruises.
Since the beginning of time, sailors have sworn that there are unlucky ships and the unluckiest ships of all are those who have defied the gods and changed their names. Probably this is why Windjammer barefoot Cruises, failed financially. I remember their ads in Playboy magazines.
When the Yankee Clipper's owner, Windjammer Barefoot Cruises went out of business in 2007, it lost all of its ships. Yankee Clipper was docked in Trinidad and is still there along with the other Windjammer Barefoot Cruises ship M/v Amazing Grace.
On a lighter side there was also a flying boat named "Yankee Clipper". It was a Boeing 314 Clipper, the largest aircraft ever built by Boeing until the modern jumbo jets. The Boeing 314 Clipper was a long-range flying boat. The Yankee Clipper flew across the Atlantic on a route from Southampton to Port Washington, New York.
Primary users of the Boeing 314 were:
Pan American World Airways (PANAM)
British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC)
United States Navy
There was also the "Yankee Clipper", The Apollo 12 command module
There was a train that was also called the "Yankee Clipper". It provided passenger train service between New York City and Boston, run by the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad.
Yet another "Yankee Clipper" was The 1938 New England hurricane, a powerful hurricane that struck Long Island and New England in September of that year.
Still another "Yankee Clipper" was a movie in 1927, produced by Cecil B. DeMille.
A similar movie "China Clipper" (1936 film)
Pat O'Brien as Dave Logan
Beverly Roberts as Jean "Skippy" Logan
Ross Alexander as Tom Collins
Humphrey Bogart as Hap Stuart
This movie portrayed the development of the US to Orient route for PANAM, using a Martin M-130 "China Clipper". This film is the one to get if you want to see how the development of this aircraft evolved over many years. This route was much longer that the one taken by the "Yankee Clipper".
So if any of you out there are air mail collectors and/or aviation buffs, you need to get a copy of this film for your video library.
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
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A postal card is sold by the postal authority with a pre-printed indicia; the price of a postal card is generally the value of the indicia (postage) alone.
Exception: semi-postals
If the only postage on the card is an actual postage stamp, then you are looking at a postcard.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Johnny: I think Ikey answered your question, but I'll try to add a little bit to it.
The answer to your question is:
So for a postal card they would:
1) Obtain a postal card
2) Print a cachet on it
3) Place a stamp on it
They wouldn't place a stamp on the postal card, because the stamp-like image is already pre-printed on it.
For example, you could've gone into a post office after it was issued in June 1991 and purchased it for 40¢. It would look like this:
- - - -
To clarify something that others have said:
-- a postcard (usually, a picture postcard) is what you buy as a souvenir; it doesn't have the postage pre-printed on it -- you still need to add a stamp paying the correct postage before you mail it
-- a postal card is what the post office sells; it already has the postage pre-printed on it, and the price you pay for the postal card is usually just what it says on the postcard, reflecting the current postcard rate at that time. (Not to confuse things, but I think the USPS now charges a little more -- maybe 5¢? -- for the card itself, in addition to the current postage rate.)
I may have added to the confusion more than clarifying it, so my fingers are crossed!
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one last thing, just in case it requires explanation
Postal Card is the ONLY option here because the card is what was issued. there wasn't a corresponding postal envelope (which would have required a different rate, then, and would have been seen as a separate issue).
if all this was already self-evident, and I'm just mansplaining, chock it up to my dottage
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Hi all,
Your explanations have been GREAT as usual!
I now understand that the real "magic" deciding factor is the card itself, because it comes pre-printed with the stamp-like image, thus an envelope is impossible.
Now it seems so obvious! LOL! Once I got the concept through my head.
I now also see the differentiation between a postal card and a postcard. Makes sense.
Thanks a lot!
You all REALLY enhance this hobby for me greatly.
JR
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Um, TuskenRaider,
"Yankee Clipper" is not the name of a ship per se, "Clipper" is the name of a class of ships, and "Yankee" implies their place of birth.
Google up an image of the Flying Cloud, and see if its rigging isn't virtually identical to that on my 1939 card. The postcard image is not of a specific ship, but still VERY representative of the class. She's even got stuns'ls out!
- Triangular jib sails (2 to 4)
- 3-masted, mainmast taller than either the fore or mizzen masts.
- gaff-rigged spanker
- "Aberdeen" clipper bow
Classic design born in American shipyards in the mid-19th century, which then evolved in both British and American shipyards.
It's a fascinating era in the heyday of pure sailing ships, from all sorts of angles: engineering, trade development, capitalistic speculation, etc.
-Paul
1 Member
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Login to Like.
Hi all,
I have acquired this super cool cover that is of the subject "Yankee Clipper".
I was unaware that the Yankee Clipper was a ship as well as an airplane. Both favorite topicals for me.
From my research the Yankee Clipper airplane was used for transatlantic flight for the "super-rich", with only the utmost in luxury being incorporated during the flight. Costs per ticket for this flight in today's dollars was about $17,000 per person! Crazy!
------------
This appears to be a Postal Card if I am not mistaken, as it appears to be primarly made of cardstock much like a traditional post card. The back has a short description regarding the Yankee Clipper(s).
Are my assumptions correct? Would it be considered a Postal Card?
Also, why do some cachet makers (this one is Fleetwood) use Postal Cards for some and Envelopes for others? Is there a methodology to it, or just whatever they feel like?
Also, I am unsure of the significance of the postmark of Flushing, New York.
------------
Thanks to all!
Johnny
Login to Like
this post
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Hello Johnny,
I am not real knowledgeable about First Day Covers but the Postal Card is UXC25, an Airmail Postal Card issued on June 28, 1991. The first day of issue was Flushing, NY. According to my 2014 U.S. Specialized Catalog 24,865 First Day Covers were created. The FDC lists for $1.50.
Jim
Login to Like
this post
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re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
JR,
yes, the Yankee Clipper refers to a boat and an airplane, as well as a center fielder.
you're looking at the Boeing 314, one of two major designs for 4-engined amphibious passenger aircraft. Here's specs on the plane: http://www.boeing.com/history/products/model-314-clipper.page
yes, this is a postal card
and, yes, travel on these things was expensive. Postal rates for air mail on these guys was dear, so something wearing a fedora and weighing more than an ounce would likely take well more than the 30c to England.
David
Login to Like
this post
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Flushing, NY is the location of Laguardia Air Port.
In addition to the use of the term "Yankee Clipper", it was also the name of a passenger train operated by the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad.
Login to Like
this post
12:52:32pm
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Here's a neat little item that I use to lead off my Clipper Mail exhibit:
The first scheduled mail flight to Europe via Trans-Atlantic clipper flight was May 20, 1939, and the sender's date is not much later. Too bad it's not postmarked...
The plane in the painting is marked "NC 18601", the ill-fated Honolulu Clipper, which was sunk in November, 1945...
Enjoy,
-Paul
Login to Like
this post
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Johnny -- I'm not sure one of your questions got answered directly.
When a new postal card was/is issued, first day cover issuers (like Fleetwood, etc), would print a cachet on the postal card.
When a new stamp was/is issued, the FDC issuers would supply their own cacheted envelopes.
Login to Like
this post
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Hi all,
Thanks for your great responses! A remaining question. Why Postal Card vs. Envelope? Or why Envelope vs Postal Card? Personal choice?
----------------
@CactusJack,
Thanks for this information! Sounds like I need a copy of that 2014 U.S. Specialized Catalog, it sounds pretty handy. $1.50! Nice!
----------------
@amsd,
LOL! I forgot about the centerfielder, I did come across that in my research as well. It sounds like this mode of travel was just about as "top end" as you could get. And to think for some, it may have become a fairly routine trip.
----------------
@Michael78561,
I "guess" Laguardia made sense for the stamp release? It appears that Alameda, CA. was where the first flight took off from. Wow, now I did not know that about the passenger train. I'll have to check into whether that is a modern train or one from the old days. I love those 1930's passenger trains!
----------------
@Pigdoc,
That is a GREAT piece there! I'm not sure what Harry Pickins was insinuating in his writing, but one almost wonders if this trip was a bit "routine" for him. I can't make out the word right before his signature. Interesting choice of planes for the painting. I wonder if it crashed afterward or this was a "tribute" item? Interesting!
----------------
@Philatarium,
So for a postal card they would:
1) Obtain a postal card
2) Print a cachet on it
3) Place a stamp on it
Correct?
----------------
Thanks to all for your knowledge, big time!
JR
Login to Like
this post
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Hi Everyone;
You all know how I hate to be a stickler, for minor details so....
Yankee Clipper was a clipper ship in United States service, however I don't believe there was ever a square-rigged ship of that name, it just referred to a ship class. If you Google "Sailing ship named the "Yankee Clipper"", you get photos of both square rigged ships and ships (schooners) with triangular sails.
I believe that Yankee Clipper when referred to a square-rigged sailing ship, referred to a ship of the clipper hull and square sail plan, popular in the Americas and Europe, but "Yankee" simply referred to a clipper ship of American registry, and so could refer to any number of vessels.
There was a schooner by the name of "Yankee Clipper" with triangular sails:
Yankee Clipper is a three masted sailing cruise ship that served for Windjammer Barefoot Cruises, the failed cruise line. She was originally built in Kiel, Germany as the Cressida, an armor plated private yacht. She was a prize in World War II. She was acquired by the Vanderbilts and was renamed Pioneer. In 1965, the ship was acquired by Windjammer Barefoot cruises.
Since the beginning of time, sailors have sworn that there are unlucky ships and the unluckiest ships of all are those who have defied the gods and changed their names. Probably this is why Windjammer barefoot Cruises, failed financially. I remember their ads in Playboy magazines.
When the Yankee Clipper's owner, Windjammer Barefoot Cruises went out of business in 2007, it lost all of its ships. Yankee Clipper was docked in Trinidad and is still there along with the other Windjammer Barefoot Cruises ship M/v Amazing Grace.
On a lighter side there was also a flying boat named "Yankee Clipper". It was a Boeing 314 Clipper, the largest aircraft ever built by Boeing until the modern jumbo jets. The Boeing 314 Clipper was a long-range flying boat. The Yankee Clipper flew across the Atlantic on a route from Southampton to Port Washington, New York.
Primary users of the Boeing 314 were:
Pan American World Airways (PANAM)
British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC)
United States Navy
There was also the "Yankee Clipper", The Apollo 12 command module
There was a train that was also called the "Yankee Clipper". It provided passenger train service between New York City and Boston, run by the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad.
Yet another "Yankee Clipper" was The 1938 New England hurricane, a powerful hurricane that struck Long Island and New England in September of that year.
Still another "Yankee Clipper" was a movie in 1927, produced by Cecil B. DeMille.
A similar movie "China Clipper" (1936 film)
Pat O'Brien as Dave Logan
Beverly Roberts as Jean "Skippy" Logan
Ross Alexander as Tom Collins
Humphrey Bogart as Hap Stuart
This movie portrayed the development of the US to Orient route for PANAM, using a Martin M-130 "China Clipper". This film is the one to get if you want to see how the development of this aircraft evolved over many years. This route was much longer that the one taken by the "Yankee Clipper".
So if any of you out there are air mail collectors and/or aviation buffs, you need to get a copy of this film for your video library.
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
A postal card is sold by the postal authority with a pre-printed indicia; the price of a postal card is generally the value of the indicia (postage) alone.
Exception: semi-postals
If the only postage on the card is an actual postage stamp, then you are looking at a postcard.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Johnny: I think Ikey answered your question, but I'll try to add a little bit to it.
The answer to your question is:
So for a postal card they would:
1) Obtain a postal card
2) Print a cachet on it
3) Place a stamp on it
They wouldn't place a stamp on the postal card, because the stamp-like image is already pre-printed on it.
For example, you could've gone into a post office after it was issued in June 1991 and purchased it for 40¢. It would look like this:
- - - -
To clarify something that others have said:
-- a postcard (usually, a picture postcard) is what you buy as a souvenir; it doesn't have the postage pre-printed on it -- you still need to add a stamp paying the correct postage before you mail it
-- a postal card is what the post office sells; it already has the postage pre-printed on it, and the price you pay for the postal card is usually just what it says on the postcard, reflecting the current postcard rate at that time. (Not to confuse things, but I think the USPS now charges a little more -- maybe 5¢? -- for the card itself, in addition to the current postage rate.)
I may have added to the confusion more than clarifying it, so my fingers are crossed!
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re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
one last thing, just in case it requires explanation
Postal Card is the ONLY option here because the card is what was issued. there wasn't a corresponding postal envelope (which would have required a different rate, then, and would have been seen as a separate issue).
if all this was already self-evident, and I'm just mansplaining, chock it up to my dottage
Login to Like
this post
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Hi all,
Your explanations have been GREAT as usual!
I now understand that the real "magic" deciding factor is the card itself, because it comes pre-printed with the stamp-like image, thus an envelope is impossible.
Now it seems so obvious! LOL! Once I got the concept through my head.
I now also see the differentiation between a postal card and a postcard. Makes sense.
Thanks a lot!
You all REALLY enhance this hobby for me greatly.
JR
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
09:33:47am
re: Postal Card vs. Envelope?
Um, TuskenRaider,
"Yankee Clipper" is not the name of a ship per se, "Clipper" is the name of a class of ships, and "Yankee" implies their place of birth.
Google up an image of the Flying Cloud, and see if its rigging isn't virtually identical to that on my 1939 card. The postcard image is not of a specific ship, but still VERY representative of the class. She's even got stuns'ls out!
- Triangular jib sails (2 to 4)
- 3-masted, mainmast taller than either the fore or mizzen masts.
- gaff-rigged spanker
- "Aberdeen" clipper bow
Classic design born in American shipyards in the mid-19th century, which then evolved in both British and American shipyards.
It's a fascinating era in the heyday of pure sailing ships, from all sorts of angles: engineering, trade development, capitalistic speculation, etc.
-Paul
1 Member
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Login to Like.