Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
How can anyone be so clueless as to utterly fail to protect items they sell?
I complained to the dealer, asking if he has duplicate postcards. I also told him that I am not willing to go through the hassle and cost of returning the damaged postcard to him, and that if he can't supply a replacement postcard I expect a full refund. So far, no response.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
Clueless, no. Lazy, yes.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Some years ago I bought about fifty old picture postcards and they came in an envelope with a strong elastic band around the cards.
Most of the cards were ok but all the larger cards on the outside of the group were severely damaged by the elastic band. 
I thought this was really thoughtless. It should have been obvious to the seller what would happen if he packed them this way.
Login to Like
this post
There once was a dispute on eBsy boards about a seller who sold a mint condition antique toy in original box and put address label and postage on that box!
Login to Like
this post
Well, this is just going south! I received a response from the eBay dealer about the postcard he sold me on eBay. He said that the card was not damaged in the mail, but was damaged when he listed it. Here's his comment:
"HI BOB,THE MARKS YOU SHOW WERE ALREADY ON THE POSTCARD,NOT FROM MAILING.IF YOU WANT A REFUND JUST SEND IT BACK FOR A FULL REFUND-SORRY YOUR NOT HAPPY WITH YOUR ITEM-TAKE CARE"
I responded, asking if he would refund my cost for returning the postcard. In his response to that request, he as much as admitted that the postcard was damaged in transit:
"Dear bob,postage on your item was $9.99 to Canada, you chose the regular mail with stamps and no cardboard,you wanted the lower price and then this is what happens.you paid under $3.00 for postage.if you want all the protections it becomes a package as far as us postal is concerned and cost $9.99 for 3 ounces. If you want a refund send it back and I will give you a full refund.not the return $3 postage.the shipping was what you paid for, you can’t have both, cheap price and heavy weighty costly"
Then, immediately, he sent this message:
"FYI, bob I purchased the postcard in Amsterdam and paid 4 euros for it and if you did not like the price why did you buy it?i sold it as is and you need to look at the scan better was not hiding anything, I am insulted by your comments, I work very hard to be a great seller, you need to check what my feedback at Ebay states"
There is no indication in his many other eBay listings that he offers different packaging options. I never said that I didn't "like" the original price. I downloaded the original scan from eBay — it doesn't show any damage. (In fairness, I scanned the postcard at high resolution, and that scan doesn't show any damage either, although the damage is obvious in oblique light. I also have to ask why, if he paid four Euros for the postcard, he sold it for only US$4.99. I guess he's just a generous guy.
I now have a very sour taste in my mouth.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
"I also have to ask why, if he paid four Euros for the postcard, he sold it for only US$4.99. I guess he's just a generous guy."
At the current exchange rate that would be reselling with 0 margin. That would indeed be very special and is hard to believe. From the writing I assume he is not Dutch?
In any case, his customer satisfaction management is extraordinary
Login to Like
this post
I would return the card and call it a loss. And then consider leaving negative feedback for not properly describing the damage to the postcard.
Login to Like
this post
This morning I received the following message from the dealer in question. I had sent him a long message, pointing out the inconsistencies in his response and asking how he thought anyone would benefit from his failure to protect the items he was mailing:
"Hi bob,
I will not do the off the books mailings again to save a customer some$$ and just mail through Ebay and use the cardboard so there will be no question on my mailing with no cardboard to protect the card.ebay and the post office consider. An item that does not bend to be a package and the lowest price to Canada is $9.99 in postal price.you may return item if you want and I will do refund,
thanks Casino"
I don't know if it's true that a stiffener in an envelope makes it a "package" that costs $9.99 to mail to Canada. I do know that most items I buy from other dealers in the U.S. arrive undamaged in envelopes with stiffeners, and I rarely pay more than $5 for postage, sometimes as little as a dollar. Occasionally, shipping is free. Are those other dealers simply hoping the the USPS won't notice their "packages"?
I think I'll keep the card. The dealer didn't apologize, but at least he didn't argue with me, and apparently is taking my complaint to heart. Since I don't really care about the resale value of the postcard, and the minor damage doesn't show in scans, I can at least use it in my web pages or any posts or articles I might write. I should do that for Stamporama. The postcard illustration is one of the better ones I've come across, clearly showing a couple of the major design differences between the Douglas DC-2 and the Douglas DC-3.
Thanks for your help in my sorting out this eBay problem.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
Bob,
Generally a simple cardboard stiffener, even multiple layers don't cause the envelope to become a package.
I think he is referring to the case where the envelope will not bend at all. If the envelope is unbendable then it will be considered a package by the USPS.
Cardboard has always in my experience given enough bend to avoid this type of classification.
A certain amount of bendiness is required so that the envelope will pass through the automated mail processing machines.
Hope this helps,
Antonio
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
In the US anything over 1/4 inch thick becomes a first class parcel (package) and incurs the minimum $3.50 US to US or $10.00 US to Canada minimum charge.
I bought 200 photo mailers some time ago. Unfortunately they mic .267 and now cost $3.50 to ship. They used to (At time of purchase) either get a by and go for regular 1st class mail or at worst incur the non-machineble add-on.
Login to Like
this post
When I sold on eBay, for covers, currency and post cards, I used a number 11 business envelope. I printed my "thank you" note on 8 1/2" x 11" 110 bond paper. That tri-folded around the cover(s) or card(s) protected them. I put the printed side on the outside so there couldn't be any print transfer. Mailed 100s that way, never a complaint.
I always get a kick out of dealers who pack stuff to survive a nuclear blast. Often their tape monster parcels are hard to open without damaging the purchase!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Thanks for that information, Antonio. I've passed it along to the dealer who sold me the postcard. I think that one of the problems with this transaction is that English is not his native language. In any event, I think I've managed to smooth the waters. I'm going to keep the postcard, despite the damage. I couldn't find any others like it in a google search, and since the damage isn't visible in a scan I can still use it to illustrate a web page or two.
It's curious, however, how even slight damage to a stamp, cover, or postcard can destroy much of my pleasure in owning it. A few years ago, at my stamp club, I bought a for maybe 5% of its catalogue value; it was discounted because of a tear just a couple of millimetres long. I wasted my money, because the tear is all I can see when I look at it. Same with another stamp that was discounted because it was unused, i.e. no gum. Can't look at it without feeling the need to replace it with a MNH copy, if I could find one and if I could afford it!
Bob
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
"A few years ago, at my stamp club, I bought a for maybe 5% of its catalogue value; it was discounted because of a tear just a couple of millimetres long. I wasted my money, because the tear is all I can see when I look at it. "
Been there, done that, had the exact same result.
Even when I'm not looking at it, it gnaws at me.
-Paul
Login to Like
this post
Bob,
I don't think anyone said this, yet.
There is a mechanism on eBay that allows you to turn in a dispute report on this seller.
The seller is given x number of days to reply. If they don't reply, you automatically receive a full refund including postage paid.
You would indicate that the card arrived in different condition than was shown. You can attach photos to the complaint. You can mention that photos on his listing do not show this damage and you would like all of your money back. Additionally, you do not feel that return postage is your responsibility for an item not as described.
I would be very surprised if you were not given a full refund.
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
First Class domestic letter rate mailer that cannot bend are considered non machinable. Such mailers are assessed about 20 cents or so for the non machinable surcharge. As long as the mailer meets weight and size criteria for first class letter rate they are not moved to parcel rate as was suggested above.
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
"As long as the mailer meets weight and size criteria for first class letter rate they are not moved to parcel rate as was suggested above."
Correct. The thickness, however, cannot exceed 1/4 inch (our window clerks have a template)or they are now considered a parcel. The postmaster showed me the rule but all I can find right now is this chart from USPS. com
Standard Sized Envelopes
Envelopes must be rectangular to qualify for letter prices.
Size Requirements
Minimum Maximum
Height 3 1/2" 6 1/8"
Length 5" 11 1/2"
Thickness 0.007" 1/4"
Login to Like
this post
What has significantly changed though: It is not allowed (as of January 22, 2018) to send merchandise letter rate to foreign locations (from the U.S.) so while formerly it was allowed along with the mandatory customs label, now it is not allowed for the letter rate.
Instead sender must send merchandise with customs form via the much more expensive first class parcel rate.
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
Yesterday I received a postcard that I purchased from an eBay dealer. It was wrapped in a shipped in a manila envelope, protected by a flimsy plastic bag. It had been damaged multiple times by the metal clasp on the envelope — small pits caused by the clasp are clearly visible:
How can anyone be so clueless as to utterly fail to protect items they sell?
I complained to the dealer, asking if he has duplicate postcards. I also told him that I am not willing to go through the hassle and cost of returning the damaged postcard to him, and that if he can't supply a replacement postcard I expect a full refund. So far, no response.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
Clueless, no. Lazy, yes.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
Some years ago I bought about fifty old picture postcards and they came in an envelope with a strong elastic band around the cards.
Most of the cards were ok but all the larger cards on the outside of the group were severely damaged by the elastic band.
I thought this was really thoughtless. It should have been obvious to the seller what would happen if he packed them this way.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
There once was a dispute on eBsy boards about a seller who sold a mint condition antique toy in original box and put address label and postage on that box!
Login to Like
this post
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
Well, this is just going south! I received a response from the eBay dealer about the postcard he sold me on eBay. He said that the card was not damaged in the mail, but was damaged when he listed it. Here's his comment:
"HI BOB,THE MARKS YOU SHOW WERE ALREADY ON THE POSTCARD,NOT FROM MAILING.IF YOU WANT A REFUND JUST SEND IT BACK FOR A FULL REFUND-SORRY YOUR NOT HAPPY WITH YOUR ITEM-TAKE CARE"
I responded, asking if he would refund my cost for returning the postcard. In his response to that request, he as much as admitted that the postcard was damaged in transit:
"Dear bob,postage on your item was $9.99 to Canada, you chose the regular mail with stamps and no cardboard,you wanted the lower price and then this is what happens.you paid under $3.00 for postage.if you want all the protections it becomes a package as far as us postal is concerned and cost $9.99 for 3 ounces. If you want a refund send it back and I will give you a full refund.not the return $3 postage.the shipping was what you paid for, you can’t have both, cheap price and heavy weighty costly"
Then, immediately, he sent this message:
"FYI, bob I purchased the postcard in Amsterdam and paid 4 euros for it and if you did not like the price why did you buy it?i sold it as is and you need to look at the scan better was not hiding anything, I am insulted by your comments, I work very hard to be a great seller, you need to check what my feedback at Ebay states"
There is no indication in his many other eBay listings that he offers different packaging options. I never said that I didn't "like" the original price. I downloaded the original scan from eBay — it doesn't show any damage. (In fairness, I scanned the postcard at high resolution, and that scan doesn't show any damage either, although the damage is obvious in oblique light. I also have to ask why, if he paid four Euros for the postcard, he sold it for only US$4.99. I guess he's just a generous guy.
I now have a very sour taste in my mouth.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
"I also have to ask why, if he paid four Euros for the postcard, he sold it for only US$4.99. I guess he's just a generous guy."
At the current exchange rate that would be reselling with 0 margin. That would indeed be very special and is hard to believe. From the writing I assume he is not Dutch?
In any case, his customer satisfaction management is extraordinary
Login to Like
this post
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
I would return the card and call it a loss. And then consider leaving negative feedback for not properly describing the damage to the postcard.
Login to Like
this post
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
This morning I received the following message from the dealer in question. I had sent him a long message, pointing out the inconsistencies in his response and asking how he thought anyone would benefit from his failure to protect the items he was mailing:
"Hi bob,
I will not do the off the books mailings again to save a customer some$$ and just mail through Ebay and use the cardboard so there will be no question on my mailing with no cardboard to protect the card.ebay and the post office consider. An item that does not bend to be a package and the lowest price to Canada is $9.99 in postal price.you may return item if you want and I will do refund,
thanks Casino"
I don't know if it's true that a stiffener in an envelope makes it a "package" that costs $9.99 to mail to Canada. I do know that most items I buy from other dealers in the U.S. arrive undamaged in envelopes with stiffeners, and I rarely pay more than $5 for postage, sometimes as little as a dollar. Occasionally, shipping is free. Are those other dealers simply hoping the the USPS won't notice their "packages"?
I think I'll keep the card. The dealer didn't apologize, but at least he didn't argue with me, and apparently is taking my complaint to heart. Since I don't really care about the resale value of the postcard, and the minor damage doesn't show in scans, I can at least use it in my web pages or any posts or articles I might write. I should do that for Stamporama. The postcard illustration is one of the better ones I've come across, clearly showing a couple of the major design differences between the Douglas DC-2 and the Douglas DC-3.
Thanks for your help in my sorting out this eBay problem.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
Bob,
Generally a simple cardboard stiffener, even multiple layers don't cause the envelope to become a package.
I think he is referring to the case where the envelope will not bend at all. If the envelope is unbendable then it will be considered a package by the USPS.
Cardboard has always in my experience given enough bend to avoid this type of classification.
A certain amount of bendiness is required so that the envelope will pass through the automated mail processing machines.
Hope this helps,
Antonio
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
In the US anything over 1/4 inch thick becomes a first class parcel (package) and incurs the minimum $3.50 US to US or $10.00 US to Canada minimum charge.
I bought 200 photo mailers some time ago. Unfortunately they mic .267 and now cost $3.50 to ship. They used to (At time of purchase) either get a by and go for regular 1st class mail or at worst incur the non-machineble add-on.
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
When I sold on eBay, for covers, currency and post cards, I used a number 11 business envelope. I printed my "thank you" note on 8 1/2" x 11" 110 bond paper. That tri-folded around the cover(s) or card(s) protected them. I put the printed side on the outside so there couldn't be any print transfer. Mailed 100s that way, never a complaint.
I always get a kick out of dealers who pack stuff to survive a nuclear blast. Often their tape monster parcels are hard to open without damaging the purchase!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
Thanks for that information, Antonio. I've passed it along to the dealer who sold me the postcard. I think that one of the problems with this transaction is that English is not his native language. In any event, I think I've managed to smooth the waters. I'm going to keep the postcard, despite the damage. I couldn't find any others like it in a google search, and since the damage isn't visible in a scan I can still use it to illustrate a web page or two.
It's curious, however, how even slight damage to a stamp, cover, or postcard can destroy much of my pleasure in owning it. A few years ago, at my stamp club, I bought a for maybe 5% of its catalogue value; it was discounted because of a tear just a couple of millimetres long. I wasted my money, because the tear is all I can see when I look at it. Same with another stamp that was discounted because it was unused, i.e. no gum. Can't look at it without feeling the need to replace it with a MNH copy, if I could find one and if I could afford it!
Bob
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
10:21:29am
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
"A few years ago, at my stamp club, I bought a for maybe 5% of its catalogue value; it was discounted because of a tear just a couple of millimetres long. I wasted my money, because the tear is all I can see when I look at it. "
Been there, done that, had the exact same result.
Even when I'm not looking at it, it gnaws at me.
-Paul
Login to Like
this post
10:39:16am
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
Bob,
I don't think anyone said this, yet.
There is a mechanism on eBay that allows you to turn in a dispute report on this seller.
The seller is given x number of days to reply. If they don't reply, you automatically receive a full refund including postage paid.
You would indicate that the card arrived in different condition than was shown. You can attach photos to the complaint. You can mention that photos on his listing do not show this damage and you would like all of your money back. Additionally, you do not feel that return postage is your responsibility for an item not as described.
I would be very surprised if you were not given a full refund.
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
10:43:53am
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
First Class domestic letter rate mailer that cannot bend are considered non machinable. Such mailers are assessed about 20 cents or so for the non machinable surcharge. As long as the mailer meets weight and size criteria for first class letter rate they are not moved to parcel rate as was suggested above.
Bruce
Login to Like
this post
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
"As long as the mailer meets weight and size criteria for first class letter rate they are not moved to parcel rate as was suggested above."
Correct. The thickness, however, cannot exceed 1/4 inch (our window clerks have a template)or they are now considered a parcel. The postmaster showed me the rule but all I can find right now is this chart from USPS. com
Standard Sized Envelopes
Envelopes must be rectangular to qualify for letter prices.
Size Requirements
Minimum Maximum
Height 3 1/2" 6 1/8"
Length 5" 11 1/2"
Thickness 0.007" 1/4"
Login to Like
this post
03:59:10pm
re: Are some dealers just plain daft?
What has significantly changed though: It is not allowed (as of January 22, 2018) to send merchandise letter rate to foreign locations (from the U.S.) so while formerly it was allowed along with the mandatory customs label, now it is not allowed for the letter rate.
Instead sender must send merchandise with customs form via the much more expensive first class parcel rate.
Bruce
Login to Like
this post