Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
World cup fever!
I guess my contribution to Approvals, Auctions and (I can see Ian smiling) the Discussion Board will be severely limited.
What is your favorite team?
rrr...
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I thought Iceland in the Euro was a fluke before, but after a draw with Argentina, they may be real - plus they have a great cheer.
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Germany defeated by Mexico!!
Mexico, what have you done?
You've woken up the sleeping giant!!
rrraphy:- A certain journalist came out with a brilliant piece, The initials SNP no longer stands for the "Scottish National Party" but for "Scotland Not Playing".
..........
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Just back from a trip to Kingston - home to my Alma Mater, Queens University. A 6 hour drive, but worth it to watch some early games with my oldest friend and fellow soccer player/aficionado and some of his friends.
After the Euro I replaced Netherlands (cheered for tragically since I discovered the game in 1974) with Iceland. Nice to see the draw, but disappointing that Messi allowed Ronaldo to proclaim himself THE GOAT.
Still managed to fit into my World Cup USA shorts and shirt from 1994 (barely...)
Will be working on my soccer and World Cup collection for the next month!
Dave.
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Italy...but no hope this year.
Putting my hopes with Belgium. Truly a 'golden generation', but prone to self-destruction. When they're on, a wonder to watch.
(fingers crossed for Iceland, though)
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Well, over here in the Netherlands we still watch the World Cup, but it is different this time. A bit strange after finishing 2nd in 2010 and 3rd in 2014 (ok, only 2 great games against Spain and Brazil, the rest was hard work and pure luck). Perhaps these were flukes and we (as a country) have now landed back on earth. At least I do not think we will be back soon. The quality level of the Dutch team is really low these days.
There are no leaders in this team...
Anyway, we are looking as more or less objective spectators nowadays and I was happy to see that teams won over superstars in the past few days. I don't know what it is, I think Messi is a great player, but it doesn't matter who Argentina's opponent is, I am supporting them. Except perhaps Brazil. There you have 11 individuals each trying to get a better sponsor contract, so I was pleased to see the hard working Swiss hold off the Brazilian semi-gods :-)
My personal favorites - well, Denmark because I like the people and the country, Belgium and Germany. The Germans have sort of reinvented football in the past 10 years and I was quite disappointed to see them loose against Mexico. They were very unlucky, but that's no excuse.
Iceland has my sympathy. The story behind the rise of Icelandic football is amazing, I saw a piece on tv showing how the Icelandic government built indoor football halls all over the country in order to keep the youth away from alcohol and smoking. It seems to have worked, alcohol consumption has been down and a generation of fine players has emerged.
As far as predictions go: France and Portugal will go a long way and although they lost their first game, do not write off the Germans.
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Me and my wife enjoy the games. My favorite, ? maybe the game itself. But I think Germany will win in the end. I was disappointed over Brasil, especially Neymar, Teatrical.
Today Belgium-Panama and GB-Tunisia (Sweden jus beet S- Korea).
Manage to sort a lot of stamps to ..... 
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England scraped it.
The one impression I have had so far is that most teams spend more time passing the ball sideways or backwards. They seem terrified to go forward.
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Maybe we should take this time to start some sales/trades of the stamps (especially soccer-related) of World Cup participants?
Dave.
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Russia winners again!!!!
Said to be the second worst team in the competition prior to the start of the World Cup!!!
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Hey Ian.
Russia was clearly the 4th worst team in the competition. But the organizers found 3 more inept teams to put into Russia's group to ensure they would at least make the knockout round. I'm betting they will find a way to make it to at least the quarter-finals before they are exposed.
But, on the bright side, your England lads finally re-discovered they can win a match at this level.
Dave
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DAVE!
HE'S SCOTTISH!
Now Ian'll bring down some vile Celtic curse upon you ... like turning all the whiskey in your home into Johnny Walker Red!
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Darryl. Don't knock it...I must say that I am still preconditioned to like JW red...the whiskey of my youth (the only thing we drank at the "parties". The only thing we could afford!)
Now, while a good glass of Laphroaig is in a different class if you like odd sensations, I just cannot see myself sipping it as I watch the posturing and goings-on of the World Cup. On the other hand...JW Red (or black)!
rrr...
Ian: I agree...this "total football" approach makes even the best teams waste most of their ball possession time passing back to their goalkeeper (they say, to try to spread the opposite defense). Does not work as they generally collapses around their own goal perimeter for most of the game. I wish some players would have balls (not soccer balls) and try to score more, even take risks, rather than pass back. The midfield is most to blame here!
I feel that a new rule is possibly needed...something that penalizes teams that don't maintain some of their players in the opponent half. (think of the 24 second time clock of basketball. It overcame the low scoring games of past years, when you could just defend and slow down the game. Football could use a similar approach!)
Or visualize a defensive offside rule (penalty for passing back under some conditions).
( I can see Ian going bonkers..what..change something in Football? )
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Hey, there is goal line technology and a video referee now, so don't say there aren't any changes! But you're right, compared to other sports (like for instance rugby or field hockey) football is extremely conservative.
By the way, I don't think your proposed new rule is going to work. If you want to have a number of players stay on the opponent's half, you need to scrap the off-side rule as well, otherwise it will never work. If they would do that, the result is that at least as many defenders would stay behind to guard the strikers, meaning there would be no numerical advantage for the side on the offensive.
Anyway, there are people thinking of changing the game, see here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/marco-van-basten-fifa-plans-change-football-a7534186.html
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Yes, I am a Scot but I am also British!!
Is this because I don't like whisky?
I prefer vodka!! (could be due to my socialist upbringing) Power to the people!!
I enjoy watching a game of football but I much prefer Rugby League.
Now, Now rrraphy, I don't mind change, as long as the required change has been well thought out, the consequences recognised and are considered to be beneficial to all.
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My sister had this on her FB page - a lot of fake injuries?
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Ralph:
I can barely drink scotch, probably due to my exposure to JWR in my youth. I can handle a really good blend ( I have a bottle of Te Bheagh handy for company). I personally believe that JWR is a nasty practical joke played on the masses by some scurrilous Scotsman. (Full disclosure - my mom is from hardy Scots-Irish stock).
Having said that, I have a penchant for bourbon, with my go to as Wild Turkey, so one might question my taste in that regard. At this moment, I'm backing the English - a small batch gin and tonic on the back deck while doing the NYT crossword...
-Darryl
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Jan-simon:
The article was fascinating, but brought back memories of van Basten the player. One of my all time favourites, even when he played for Milan (Dad was a Juventus fan 
). He truly was a magician with the ball.
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Yes, Van Basten was really great. Pity his career was cut short because of nasty injuries caused by brutal attacks on his ankles. In doubt who was better: Marco van Basten or Dennis Bergkamp. Very different personalities and very different players even though they were both strikers.
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I love football, was a player and coached a bit back in the 1970s. But here in the USA football was not widely popular back; it is great that there is growing interest here now.
In the Spain/Iran game, Spain had something like 700+ passes, I think that is the most passes in a single game I have ever seen. But with Iran in a defensive shell going down the middle was tough so Spain was forced to pass around the perimeter probing for openings.
I also have to admit that I really enjoy listening to Premier league commentators; they are so understated at times. My favorite line after a player made a bad mistake, "that was something less than ideal".
Don
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"I also have to admit that I really enjoy listening to Premier league commentators; they are so understated at times. "
This is in strong contrast to many US sports announcers who spend so much time over analyzing and speculating on everything as they do with national news. Sometimes it is just best to mute the volume and just watch the game. It is actually one reason I am not a big sports fan.
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"I really enjoy listening to Premier league commentators..."
The British certainly have a way with words, and more colorful language than North Americans. Partly why I'm more a fan of their comedy and dramas. Pretty common examples:
"A cynical challenge..."
"That goal showed astonishing impudence..."
"A sumptuous display of passing virtuosity..."
But I'm not sure I'd say they are understated compared to North American commentators:
"A hard tackle..."
"A very nice goal..."
"A highly accurate pass..."
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Apropos to the currentg history discussion, where the Boer War has been mentioned, it reminded me of a funny story from my Dutch-Canadian friend Vince who lived in the Middle East for a number of years (his wife was a doctor there).
When he was in Qatar he was invited to a parent-child soccer game for ex-pats living in/near a certain compound. As he got to the field he saw some parents and kids on the sidelines and tapped one on the shoulder exclaiming, "holy S@@t, is that Ronald de Boer across the pitch"?
The guy turned around and said "Yea, I think so".
It was Frank de Boer.
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Jan-simon:
A hard choice to make, but as much as I love Bergkamp (I'm an Arsenal fan), van Basten was a bit more magical.
-Darryl
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The De Boer twins played in Qatar at the end of their careers. Big cashing opportunity, I suppose.
I saw Frank de Boer on tv yesterday in the aftermath of the amazing Croatia - Argentina match. With his training career somewhat in shambles, he is now hired for analysis on Dutch tv. It does not matter what happens, he will always be some kind of Buster Keaton imitator.
I thought something special had just happened: the complete humiliation of what was first seen as one of the favorites for the title. Although the draw against Iceland should have been a warning. Nevertheless, Frank sat there as if it was competely normal. Just another day in the office
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I am a Rugby ( League not Union ) fan, and have little interest in soccer ( Overpaid, oversexed and over here to say what was said about American servicemen at the time !!)
However the England team is young and very inexperienced ( and I guess nervous ), and I have heard more than one commentator say that it is not about winning the World Cup this time but getting a team in shape for next time. There comes a time when playing the same players over and over again leads to them all becoming too old at the same time, and if in fact this is the plan then it has some merit - and give the manager a chance I say.
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England 6........Panama 1
Well Done!
To quote Victor Meldrew......"I don't believe it!!!!!!"
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The next match Belgium vs. England will show how good both teams really are.
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I've never really watched any soccer but with the discussion here I thought I'd give it a try. I somewhat enjoyed it but too much moving sideways or even backward wasting a lot of time (I guess there's a reason for this). I can't remember who was playing but the thing that struck me was the fantastic shape these guys are in running up and down the enormous field. The thing that ruined it for me was the play-acting every time someone took a tumble. I will concede it is a rougher game than I thought but clutching your leg and rolling around on the ground like it's broken in 5 places and a minute later running down the field at breakneck speed turned me off.
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I was out yesterday and watched most of the Poland Colombia match. Not sure why but I was rooting for the Poles. I don't watch soccer much but they never really seemed to be much of a threat. The Polish national anthem was cool!
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"I somewhat enjoyed it but too much moving sideways or even backward wasting a lot of time (I guess there's a reason for this)"
As one of the greatest footballplayers of all time (Johan Cruyff) once said: "If we have the ball, they cannot score a goal". Combined with one of his other wisdoms "You always have to score one more than your opponent", that is about all you need to know about football
By the way, I think you saw Portugal play. Bunch of posers and cry-babies. Ronaldo is a great player but also a very annoying person. He knocked down an opponent and should have been sent off, but he was lucky. Portugal as a whole was very lucky as a matter of fact.
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As someone who played a lot of soccer, often three matches a weekend, the reason for the passing around is that you are trying to draw the opposition players out of position or away from the players they are marking.
This, in theory, then enables the ball to be played into space or to an unmarked player.
The acting antics really spoil the flow of the game and should require the offending player to be removed from the pitch, without substitution, for a set time period of no less than five minutes.
Maybe an answer to the var problem could be two ref's on the pitch each only having to patrol one half, would probably also be cheaper.
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I'll respond to a couple posts about teams playing defense, passing a lot (side to side) and players taking dives.
Football (soccer) is probably an acquired taste for all but the youngest US citizens. Even my son (and daughter) who have played soccer for years don't necessarily enjoy (or haven't yet learned to appreciate) watching the game for all its aspects (they play so they don't need to watch).
Defensive strategies are perfectly valid, though on the surface boring. So, Iceland "parking the bus" against a superior team such as Argentina seems a tad dull and maybe even unfair. Believe me its not. Their is beauty in defensive plays and its actually sad that most accolades go to the attackers.
To really enjoy soccer you have to be interested in something other than goals, because they don't happen all that often when two good teams play against each other:
* Great defensive plays - slide tackles, great blocks
* Battles between two players on either team over the entire game, e.g., the right back (RB) on defense and the attacking left forward (LF). The drama and successive escalation of tension as these players battle it out in their positions.
* Passing and footwork amounting to great artistry - its like enjoying ballet (if that's possible)
* Perfectly timed fouls - I like a judicious and ample use of fouls to stop the opposing team
* Attacking plays - overlapping runs, through balls etc.
* Attempts on goal & fantastic saves by the keeper - pretty easy to enjoy
* Changes in formation and strategy
* and so on...
Its not all about scoring goals. My favorite teams are in the Italian league and these players know how to defend. For example, watching Juventus defending is highly enjoyable to me. Probably not every ones cup of tea at first. Pick a team, watch all their games in a season and then see how you feel.
As for passing back and forth, I think we had an excellent response above. Teams will pass
back and forth to draw players out of a tight position. Let's say Iceland has hunkered down in their own half to defend and the opponents are up 1-0. They can pass around until Iceland's forwards move up and their formation opens up. They have to move forward if they want to score and at least reach a draw. Say the game then reaches a draw 1-1, then the opponents will usually have to attack. Its an ebb and flow.
But that's not the only reason for passing back and forth. Developing a rhythm early on and probing for opening are others. You usually see the passing back and forth, then some probing and then finally an attack. It can be beautiful in my opinion and once in a while it can be dull.
The other thing to consider is these games are two 45 minute halves. That's barely a challenge time-wise for a spectator. Watching a US football or baseball game is agonizingly boring to me and I was raised on these sports. Take US football which takes hours but boils down to something like 15 minutes of time when players are actually running a play. We are used to that, but the rest of the world must that's the dullest thing ever.
As for players rolling on the ground and holding their limbs. Sometimes its theatrics, and we usually know which players do this, and often its just to highlight that a foul actually occurred. Either way it can be tedious. I actually find it quite comical when certain players regularly go through their repertoire, but it can be aggravating if its the team you hate. But often times the player is actually hurting. Try playing some soccer and get cleated or have someone kick your shins/ankle while you are sprinting and you'll know what I mean. Anyway, this world cup is a lot better than previous ones and the refs seem to be ignoring a lot of minor fouls.
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I played soccer for 3 years in high school;
loved playing it - hate watching it.
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Germany beaten by South Korea!!!
Germany were terrible. They deserve to be on the first plane home!!
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I heard a pretty funny (not meant to be) commercial on the my local radio station for Fox Sports which is covering the World Cup here in the US. I guess because the US is not in the World Cup, they have a sponsor called 23andMe.com which analyzes your DNA and then you can root for whatever country your results come back as. I'm not sure what the ratings are but I'm sure they are looking for any angle to get you to watch.
I haven't done the analysis but from what I know I guess should be rooting for England as The Netherlands didn't make the cut either.
Bob
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With 2 World Cup games going into overtime and concluding in a penalty shootout, I am exhausted. Stamps will have to wait until all this fun is over.
I am glad to see Spain eliminated. Their ball control and superb passing all over the field EXCEPT forward and through the middle of the field makes for a dull dull game. They deserve the ax.
Glad they are out!
With so much talent, this game plan may have gotten them to this stage, but was a prelude to an accident, as just happened...beaten by Russia, of all teams there! One could have predicted such an outcome!
For the Croatia Denmark game, what incredible goal keeping job!
rrr...
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Germany out, Argentina out, Portugal out, Spain out. Who would have predicted neither of these teams would reach the quarter finals before the tournament?
On the other hand, based on their playing, neither team will be missed.
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England through to the Quarter Finals despite the antics of the Colombians and the poor refereeing.
Who would have thought it at the start of the competition.
Sweden is next opponent.
Not an easy game.
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Congratulations Ian. Maybe now Scotland will want to stay...
"Who would have thought it at the start of the competition..."
Well, actually, my friend Mike!
Since we both discovered soccer in 1974 I have been a die-hard Netherlands fan, and he has been an England yob. I gave up on the Dutch (brutal underachievers and incompetent penalty-takers) and switched allegiances after the last WC.
But despite England's record (brutal underachievers and incompetent penalty-takers) Mike remained loyal and unwavering into this WC. In fact, choosing England in our pool to bring home the prize - the only one to do so, and in the face of massive ridicule from 182 other football fans.
He is now in 4th place and I've dropped to 78th (I had England failing to advance out of the Group stage...)
Looking forward to the Quarters!
Cheers, Dave.
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The population of Scotland DID vote to STAY.
Only the Scottish Numpty Party will never ever ever accept the democratic will of the people!
(Sorry for bringing politics up).
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"Since we both discovered soccer in 1974 I have been a die-hard Netherlands fan, and he has been an England yob. I gave up on the Dutch (brutal underachievers and incompetent penalty-takers) and switched allegiances after the last WC."
Back in the day, the Dutch knew how to take a penalty, remember Johan Neeskens in the 2nd minute of the final?
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Belgium 2 Brazil 1
Who would believe it. Well done Roberto Martinez and his team.
Never before have so many "top" teams failed to reach the semi's.
Roll on 3pm tomorrow. Can England beat Sweden?
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Forza Belgio!
What a game. Should have/could have been 5-4! Looking for a Croatia-Belgium final now. (I almost feel guilty for failing to support England). Really happy Brazil's out. The only thing that would ruin my World Cup experience now is for Russia to advance to the final.
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I am betting on a France England final.
There is some old blood to settle...LOL
rrr...
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1066 and all that?
Still hoping for Belgium-Croatia. Let someone new put their name on M. Rimet's trophy.
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They will first need to find it again as it was stolen more than 30 years ago
Never mind that, I agree with you that it would be good to see a new winner added to the select group of 8 countries.
I hope Belgium will win.
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Only a few hours to Kick Off.
France or Belgium.
Semi Finals can be such boring spectacles as neither team wants to make a mistake, hopefully not this time.
Will Fellaini be the star or the villain for Belgium?
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Put the stamps away..it is almost time for France-Belgium!
rrr...
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Sigh.
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Even Bigger Sigh!!
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At work people are goofing off and sitting in our ample break area watching the games. I sit close to this and am subject to loud cheering, like I work in a tavern.
I posted on Facebook "Everyone is watching the World Cup, but I'm rooting for one team.. in Indonesia"
I got a lot of "Likes" but I think it went over a lot of people's heads.
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I do not think I understand it either. What team in Indonesia?
The only interesting thing to come out of the semi finals is that there now is a very small country of just 4 million people in the final. Let's hope the Croatians can drill a few holes in the concrete wall the French erect around their goal with their anti-football...
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JS: French anti football? It is not the only team to focus on defense and rely on counter attacks. I think Croatia practices the same style of play. That is not anti football, that is primarily defensive vs offensive style.
You also have to remember who the coach is.
Wiki: "as a player, Deschamps primarily excelled at impeding the opposition's attacking movements as a defensive midfielder, and was capable of subsequently starting up attacking plays and distributing the ball to teammates once he won back possession.
This worked for him in the French victory at the World Cup of 1998, where he was the captain of the team, with Zidane and Henry as the main attacking stars. This style also worked in the former clubs he managed.
Main difference here, is that the goal keeper for France is much better.
Looking forward to the last game. It has been a great world cup!
rrr...
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Well, I beg to differ. It has been entertaining but great? A lot of disappointments (Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Portugal) and a very unbalanced scheme letting mediocre teams get far (Russia, Sweden but even England wasn't that great).both finalists played one good match. Against the same oppobent actually: Argentina.
In my opinion the main problem with this world cup was that in the knock out stages most teams were more keen to avoid losing than that they wanted to win and that is what I call anti football. The aim is to win by making more goals than the opponent, right?
One of the few exceptions to this rule was Belgium. It was their world cup just as 1974 was that of the Dutch.
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In the group stage in the World Cup it is common for do only what is necessary to end up in the top two teams in the gourp. That often results in more defensive games by the better teams. Then you have teams like Iceland that rely on defense to get through. There is nothing wrong with that. The point of the game is to win, whether that means by defense or offense, but hopefully both. A 1-0 win is a win. A 0-0 draw is a win if you only need One point to reach the knock out stage.
This is cup football not anti football In my opinion, but I see our point. We all have different viewpoints. I am partial to defensive play. We're I am to travel back in time I'd be a defender on my high school team. Defense and defensive tactics don't get enough credit, at least in the U.S. Because here people want action over substance. That's why the MLS plays like video game soccer and is hard to watch.
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As for French anti football, what France did in the second half was brilliant and only possible because of the skill,of Paul Pogba. Don't get me wrong, I wanted Belgium to win at the beginning.
So in the second half Fellaini moves to the left wing, because he's 6 ft 6 or something like that. They then bring on Dries Mertens on the right with the intention to continue I use to cross to Fellaini at the far post for a typical Mandzukic type header down into the corner of the goal. Pogba, who plays a similar position to Fellaini and is equally tall, then moves from midfield to the French defensive right. He essentially man marks Fellaini for a good 20-30 minutes. Brilliant defense by Pogba and ineffective offense by Belgium. Belgium gives up on that tactic and subs Fellaini out and Pogba returns to his usual midfield post as architect.
That is great football. It highlights superior tactics by France over Belgium. I wanted to see a Belgium vs CroTia final, but France played better.
The Croatia England game was equally thrilling to me and this 3rd place game going on now is pretty good.
World Cup soccer is never going to be as good as league play and not as good as UEFA champions league and regional league cups because they don't play enough games in the World Cup group stage. UEFA champions league games are two legs each match up, so it's twice the number of games. It will be even worse in eight years with 48 teams. I've been re watching Italian league games from last year featuring Juventus and it is striking how much better these league games are to World Cup football. But I'm partial to the Italian game and Italian league tactics.
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Croatia showing more intent. France a bit defensive but still leading by a goal at halftime. 2-1.
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Congratulations to France. Indeed a great game to watch. 
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And thus it ends ... really was hoping Croatia would pull this one out, but 'twasn't to be.
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Never mind that it is over.
This week it is the British Open Golf Championships.
There is also the England v India Cricket Test Series this summer!!!
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What I find revealing is the interest being shown in the US in the Soccer World Cup.
In my youth, most Americans had never even heard of soccer let alone watched it, and now thousands must have at least a passing interest in it.
What we need now is to get you all interested in Rugby ( and even one day maybe cricket !Perhaps that one is a step too far !). Yes I do know that there is some interest in the US in Rugby already ( American Football for the slight of build, perhaps ? )
Malcolm
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Malcolm...I assume, as you are a Leicester man, you mean Rugby Union.
I much prefer Rugby League, our own Super League can be good.
You can also watch the Australian version of Rugby League, the NRL on U tube, it can be BRUTAL!!
Cricket can be exciting at the T20 level, or the Indian Premier League.
I much prefer sitting in the sun, sipping a nice ice cream float listening to Aggers and Boycott on Test Match Special.
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I live in Leicester, but originate in Yorkshire - hence I am a Rugby League man. My claim to fame is that my Mother went to school with Eddie Waring - the commentator who made Rugby League popular outside it's northern heartland.
… and of course being from Yorkshire, my religion is cricket.
Malcolm
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I can only say:-
Rooot!..... Rooot!..... Rooooooooot!
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In my family we have a couple of rugby players. My brother in law played for a long time and almost made it to the Dutch under-18 selection (that was a long time ago...). My son also played for a while, but now he switched to football due to the fact that the our new home borders the football fields :-)
In the Netherlands it's all Union. I don't know why, but it is. For a long time I did not even know there was a different variety being played called Rugby League. As a matter of fact, it was only because of Australian stamps showing Rugby League players that I found out. After that, I watched some Rugby League games on youtube, but to be honest, it did not captivate me. Not at all, actually. I like to watch Rugby Union though. The season for the international matches is starting again soon, so I think I'll be trying to watch some on the BBC :-)
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
17 Jun 2018
01:49:13pm
Well, for the next 3 weeks, priorities have shifted away from stamps.
World cup fever!
I guess my contribution to Approvals, Auctions and (I can see Ian smiling) the Discussion Board will be severely limited.
What is your favorite team?
rrr...
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02:38:32pm
re: Football (Soccer) Orphelins
I thought Iceland in the Euro was a fluke before, but after a draw with Argentina, they may be real - plus they have a great cheer.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Football (Soccer) Orphelins
Germany defeated by Mexico!!
Mexico, what have you done?
You've woken up the sleeping giant!!
rrraphy:- A certain journalist came out with a brilliant piece, The initials SNP no longer stands for the "Scottish National Party" but for "Scotland Not Playing".
..........
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re: Football (Soccer) Orphelins
Just back from a trip to Kingston - home to my Alma Mater, Queens University. A 6 hour drive, but worth it to watch some early games with my oldest friend and fellow soccer player/aficionado and some of his friends.
After the Euro I replaced Netherlands (cheered for tragically since I discovered the game in 1974) with Iceland. Nice to see the draw, but disappointing that Messi allowed Ronaldo to proclaim himself THE GOAT.
Still managed to fit into my World Cup USA shorts and shirt from 1994 (barely...)
Will be working on my soccer and World Cup collection for the next month!
Dave.
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Italy...but no hope this year.
Putting my hopes with Belgium. Truly a 'golden generation', but prone to self-destruction. When they're on, a wonder to watch.
(fingers crossed for Iceland, though)
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Well, over here in the Netherlands we still watch the World Cup, but it is different this time. A bit strange after finishing 2nd in 2010 and 3rd in 2014 (ok, only 2 great games against Spain and Brazil, the rest was hard work and pure luck). Perhaps these were flukes and we (as a country) have now landed back on earth. At least I do not think we will be back soon. The quality level of the Dutch team is really low these days.
There are no leaders in this team...
Anyway, we are looking as more or less objective spectators nowadays and I was happy to see that teams won over superstars in the past few days. I don't know what it is, I think Messi is a great player, but it doesn't matter who Argentina's opponent is, I am supporting them. Except perhaps Brazil. There you have 11 individuals each trying to get a better sponsor contract, so I was pleased to see the hard working Swiss hold off the Brazilian semi-gods :-)
My personal favorites - well, Denmark because I like the people and the country, Belgium and Germany. The Germans have sort of reinvented football in the past 10 years and I was quite disappointed to see them loose against Mexico. They were very unlucky, but that's no excuse.
Iceland has my sympathy. The story behind the rise of Icelandic football is amazing, I saw a piece on tv showing how the Icelandic government built indoor football halls all over the country in order to keep the youth away from alcohol and smoking. It seems to have worked, alcohol consumption has been down and a generation of fine players has emerged.
As far as predictions go: France and Portugal will go a long way and although they lost their first game, do not write off the Germans.
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Me and my wife enjoy the games. My favorite, ? maybe the game itself. But I think Germany will win in the end. I was disappointed over Brasil, especially Neymar, Teatrical.
Today Belgium-Panama and GB-Tunisia (Sweden jus beet S- Korea).
Manage to sort a lot of stamps to .....
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Maybe we should take this time to start some sales/trades of the stamps (especially soccer-related) of World Cup participants?
Dave.
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Hey Ian.
Russia was clearly the 4th worst team in the competition. But the organizers found 3 more inept teams to put into Russia's group to ensure they would at least make the knockout round. I'm betting they will find a way to make it to at least the quarter-finals before they are exposed.
But, on the bright side, your England lads finally re-discovered they can win a match at this level.
Dave
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DAVE!
HE'S SCOTTISH!
Now Ian'll bring down some vile Celtic curse upon you ... like turning all the whiskey in your home into Johnny Walker Red!
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20 Jun 2018
12:27:15am
re: Football (Soccer) Orphelins
Darryl. Don't knock it...I must say that I am still preconditioned to like JW red...the whiskey of my youth (the only thing we drank at the "parties". The only thing we could afford!)
Now, while a good glass of Laphroaig is in a different class if you like odd sensations, I just cannot see myself sipping it as I watch the posturing and goings-on of the World Cup. On the other hand...JW Red (or black)!
rrr...
Ian: I agree...this "total football" approach makes even the best teams waste most of their ball possession time passing back to their goalkeeper (they say, to try to spread the opposite defense). Does not work as they generally collapses around their own goal perimeter for most of the game. I wish some players would have balls (not soccer balls) and try to score more, even take risks, rather than pass back. The midfield is most to blame here!
I feel that a new rule is possibly needed...something that penalizes teams that don't maintain some of their players in the opponent half. (think of the 24 second time clock of basketball. It overcame the low scoring games of past years, when you could just defend and slow down the game. Football could use a similar approach!)
Or visualize a defensive offside rule (penalty for passing back under some conditions).
( I can see Ian going bonkers..what..change something in Football? )
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Hey, there is goal line technology and a video referee now, so don't say there aren't any changes! But you're right, compared to other sports (like for instance rugby or field hockey) football is extremely conservative.
By the way, I don't think your proposed new rule is going to work. If you want to have a number of players stay on the opponent's half, you need to scrap the off-side rule as well, otherwise it will never work. If they would do that, the result is that at least as many defenders would stay behind to guard the strikers, meaning there would be no numerical advantage for the side on the offensive.
Anyway, there are people thinking of changing the game, see here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/marco-van-basten-fifa-plans-change-football-a7534186.html
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Yes, I am a Scot but I am also British!!
Is this because I don't like whisky?
I prefer vodka!! (could be due to my socialist upbringing) Power to the people!!
I enjoy watching a game of football but I much prefer Rugby League.
Now, Now rrraphy, I don't mind change, as long as the required change has been well thought out, the consequences recognised and are considered to be beneficial to all.
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My sister had this on her FB page - a lot of fake injuries?
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Ralph:
I can barely drink scotch, probably due to my exposure to JWR in my youth. I can handle a really good blend ( I have a bottle of Te Bheagh handy for company). I personally believe that JWR is a nasty practical joke played on the masses by some scurrilous Scotsman. (Full disclosure - my mom is from hardy Scots-Irish stock).
Having said that, I have a penchant for bourbon, with my go to as Wild Turkey, so one might question my taste in that regard. At this moment, I'm backing the English - a small batch gin and tonic on the back deck while doing the NYT crossword...
-Darryl
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Jan-simon:
The article was fascinating, but brought back memories of van Basten the player. One of my all time favourites, even when he played for Milan (Dad was a Juventus fan ). He truly was a magician with the ball.
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Yes, Van Basten was really great. Pity his career was cut short because of nasty injuries caused by brutal attacks on his ankles. In doubt who was better: Marco van Basten or Dennis Bergkamp. Very different personalities and very different players even though they were both strikers.
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I love football, was a player and coached a bit back in the 1970s. But here in the USA football was not widely popular back; it is great that there is growing interest here now.
In the Spain/Iran game, Spain had something like 700+ passes, I think that is the most passes in a single game I have ever seen. But with Iran in a defensive shell going down the middle was tough so Spain was forced to pass around the perimeter probing for openings.
I also have to admit that I really enjoy listening to Premier league commentators; they are so understated at times. My favorite line after a player made a bad mistake, "that was something less than ideal".
Don
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"I also have to admit that I really enjoy listening to Premier league commentators; they are so understated at times. "
This is in strong contrast to many US sports announcers who spend so much time over analyzing and speculating on everything as they do with national news. Sometimes it is just best to mute the volume and just watch the game. It is actually one reason I am not a big sports fan.
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"I really enjoy listening to Premier league commentators..."
The British certainly have a way with words, and more colorful language than North Americans. Partly why I'm more a fan of their comedy and dramas. Pretty common examples:
"A cynical challenge..."
"That goal showed astonishing impudence..."
"A sumptuous display of passing virtuosity..."
But I'm not sure I'd say they are understated compared to North American commentators:
"A hard tackle..."
"A very nice goal..."
"A highly accurate pass..."
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Apropos to the currentg history discussion, where the Boer War has been mentioned, it reminded me of a funny story from my Dutch-Canadian friend Vince who lived in the Middle East for a number of years (his wife was a doctor there).
When he was in Qatar he was invited to a parent-child soccer game for ex-pats living in/near a certain compound. As he got to the field he saw some parents and kids on the sidelines and tapped one on the shoulder exclaiming, "holy S@@t, is that Ronald de Boer across the pitch"?
The guy turned around and said "Yea, I think so".
It was Frank de Boer.
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Jan-simon:
A hard choice to make, but as much as I love Bergkamp (I'm an Arsenal fan), van Basten was a bit more magical.
-Darryl
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The De Boer twins played in Qatar at the end of their careers. Big cashing opportunity, I suppose.
I saw Frank de Boer on tv yesterday in the aftermath of the amazing Croatia - Argentina match. With his training career somewhat in shambles, he is now hired for analysis on Dutch tv. It does not matter what happens, he will always be some kind of Buster Keaton imitator.
I thought something special had just happened: the complete humiliation of what was first seen as one of the favorites for the title. Although the draw against Iceland should have been a warning. Nevertheless, Frank sat there as if it was competely normal. Just another day in the office
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I am a Rugby ( League not Union ) fan, and have little interest in soccer ( Overpaid, oversexed and over here to say what was said about American servicemen at the time !!)
However the England team is young and very inexperienced ( and I guess nervous ), and I have heard more than one commentator say that it is not about winning the World Cup this time but getting a team in shape for next time. There comes a time when playing the same players over and over again leads to them all becoming too old at the same time, and if in fact this is the plan then it has some merit - and give the manager a chance I say.
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The next match Belgium vs. England will show how good both teams really are.
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I've never really watched any soccer but with the discussion here I thought I'd give it a try. I somewhat enjoyed it but too much moving sideways or even backward wasting a lot of time (I guess there's a reason for this). I can't remember who was playing but the thing that struck me was the fantastic shape these guys are in running up and down the enormous field. The thing that ruined it for me was the play-acting every time someone took a tumble. I will concede it is a rougher game than I thought but clutching your leg and rolling around on the ground like it's broken in 5 places and a minute later running down the field at breakneck speed turned me off.
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I was out yesterday and watched most of the Poland Colombia match. Not sure why but I was rooting for the Poles. I don't watch soccer much but they never really seemed to be much of a threat. The Polish national anthem was cool!
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"I somewhat enjoyed it but too much moving sideways or even backward wasting a lot of time (I guess there's a reason for this)"
As one of the greatest footballplayers of all time (Johan Cruyff) once said: "If we have the ball, they cannot score a goal". Combined with one of his other wisdoms "You always have to score one more than your opponent", that is about all you need to know about football
By the way, I think you saw Portugal play. Bunch of posers and cry-babies. Ronaldo is a great player but also a very annoying person. He knocked down an opponent and should have been sent off, but he was lucky. Portugal as a whole was very lucky as a matter of fact.
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As someone who played a lot of soccer, often three matches a weekend, the reason for the passing around is that you are trying to draw the opposition players out of position or away from the players they are marking.
This, in theory, then enables the ball to be played into space or to an unmarked player.
The acting antics really spoil the flow of the game and should require the offending player to be removed from the pitch, without substitution, for a set time period of no less than five minutes.
Maybe an answer to the var problem could be two ref's on the pitch each only having to patrol one half, would probably also be cheaper.
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I'll respond to a couple posts about teams playing defense, passing a lot (side to side) and players taking dives.
Football (soccer) is probably an acquired taste for all but the youngest US citizens. Even my son (and daughter) who have played soccer for years don't necessarily enjoy (or haven't yet learned to appreciate) watching the game for all its aspects (they play so they don't need to watch).
Defensive strategies are perfectly valid, though on the surface boring. So, Iceland "parking the bus" against a superior team such as Argentina seems a tad dull and maybe even unfair. Believe me its not. Their is beauty in defensive plays and its actually sad that most accolades go to the attackers.
To really enjoy soccer you have to be interested in something other than goals, because they don't happen all that often when two good teams play against each other:
* Great defensive plays - slide tackles, great blocks
* Battles between two players on either team over the entire game, e.g., the right back (RB) on defense and the attacking left forward (LF). The drama and successive escalation of tension as these players battle it out in their positions.
* Passing and footwork amounting to great artistry - its like enjoying ballet (if that's possible)
* Perfectly timed fouls - I like a judicious and ample use of fouls to stop the opposing team
* Attacking plays - overlapping runs, through balls etc.
* Attempts on goal & fantastic saves by the keeper - pretty easy to enjoy
* Changes in formation and strategy
* and so on...
Its not all about scoring goals. My favorite teams are in the Italian league and these players know how to defend. For example, watching Juventus defending is highly enjoyable to me. Probably not every ones cup of tea at first. Pick a team, watch all their games in a season and then see how you feel.
As for passing back and forth, I think we had an excellent response above. Teams will pass
back and forth to draw players out of a tight position. Let's say Iceland has hunkered down in their own half to defend and the opponents are up 1-0. They can pass around until Iceland's forwards move up and their formation opens up. They have to move forward if they want to score and at least reach a draw. Say the game then reaches a draw 1-1, then the opponents will usually have to attack. Its an ebb and flow.
But that's not the only reason for passing back and forth. Developing a rhythm early on and probing for opening are others. You usually see the passing back and forth, then some probing and then finally an attack. It can be beautiful in my opinion and once in a while it can be dull.
The other thing to consider is these games are two 45 minute halves. That's barely a challenge time-wise for a spectator. Watching a US football or baseball game is agonizingly boring to me and I was raised on these sports. Take US football which takes hours but boils down to something like 15 minutes of time when players are actually running a play. We are used to that, but the rest of the world must that's the dullest thing ever.
As for players rolling on the ground and holding their limbs. Sometimes its theatrics, and we usually know which players do this, and often its just to highlight that a foul actually occurred. Either way it can be tedious. I actually find it quite comical when certain players regularly go through their repertoire, but it can be aggravating if its the team you hate. But often times the player is actually hurting. Try playing some soccer and get cleated or have someone kick your shins/ankle while you are sprinting and you'll know what I mean. Anyway, this world cup is a lot better than previous ones and the refs seem to be ignoring a lot of minor fouls.
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I played soccer for 3 years in high school;
loved playing it - hate watching it.
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
27 Jun 2018
03:59:07pm
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I heard a pretty funny (not meant to be) commercial on the my local radio station for Fox Sports which is covering the World Cup here in the US. I guess because the US is not in the World Cup, they have a sponsor called 23andMe.com which analyzes your DNA and then you can root for whatever country your results come back as. I'm not sure what the ratings are but I'm sure they are looking for any angle to get you to watch.
I haven't done the analysis but from what I know I guess should be rooting for England as The Netherlands didn't make the cut either.
Bob
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01 Jul 2018
07:08:08pm
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With 2 World Cup games going into overtime and concluding in a penalty shootout, I am exhausted. Stamps will have to wait until all this fun is over.
I am glad to see Spain eliminated. Their ball control and superb passing all over the field EXCEPT forward and through the middle of the field makes for a dull dull game. They deserve the ax.
Glad they are out!
With so much talent, this game plan may have gotten them to this stage, but was a prelude to an accident, as just happened...beaten by Russia, of all teams there! One could have predicted such an outcome!
For the Croatia Denmark game, what incredible goal keeping job!
rrr...
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Germany out, Argentina out, Portugal out, Spain out. Who would have predicted neither of these teams would reach the quarter finals before the tournament?
On the other hand, based on their playing, neither team will be missed.
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England through to the Quarter Finals despite the antics of the Colombians and the poor refereeing.
Who would have thought it at the start of the competition.
Sweden is next opponent.
Not an easy game.
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Congratulations Ian. Maybe now Scotland will want to stay...
"Who would have thought it at the start of the competition..."
Well, actually, my friend Mike!
Since we both discovered soccer in 1974 I have been a die-hard Netherlands fan, and he has been an England yob. I gave up on the Dutch (brutal underachievers and incompetent penalty-takers) and switched allegiances after the last WC.
But despite England's record (brutal underachievers and incompetent penalty-takers) Mike remained loyal and unwavering into this WC. In fact, choosing England in our pool to bring home the prize - the only one to do so, and in the face of massive ridicule from 182 other football fans.
He is now in 4th place and I've dropped to 78th (I had England failing to advance out of the Group stage...)
Looking forward to the Quarters!
Cheers, Dave.
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"Since we both discovered soccer in 1974 I have been a die-hard Netherlands fan, and he has been an England yob. I gave up on the Dutch (brutal underachievers and incompetent penalty-takers) and switched allegiances after the last WC."
Back in the day, the Dutch knew how to take a penalty, remember Johan Neeskens in the 2nd minute of the final?
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Belgium 2 Brazil 1
Who would believe it. Well done Roberto Martinez and his team.
Never before have so many "top" teams failed to reach the semi's.
Roll on 3pm tomorrow. Can England beat Sweden?
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Forza Belgio!
What a game. Should have/could have been 5-4! Looking for a Croatia-Belgium final now. (I almost feel guilty for failing to support England). Really happy Brazil's out. The only thing that would ruin my World Cup experience now is for Russia to advance to the final.
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07 Jul 2018
05:47:24pm
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I am betting on a France England final.
There is some old blood to settle...LOL
rrr...
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1066 and all that?
Still hoping for Belgium-Croatia. Let someone new put their name on M. Rimet's trophy.
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They will first need to find it again as it was stolen more than 30 years ago
Never mind that, I agree with you that it would be good to see a new winner added to the select group of 8 countries.
I hope Belgium will win.
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Only a few hours to Kick Off.
France or Belgium.
Semi Finals can be such boring spectacles as neither team wants to make a mistake, hopefully not this time.
Will Fellaini be the star or the villain for Belgium?
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10 Jul 2018
12:28:46pm
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Put the stamps away..it is almost time for France-Belgium!
rrr...
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Sigh.
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At work people are goofing off and sitting in our ample break area watching the games. I sit close to this and am subject to loud cheering, like I work in a tavern.
I posted on Facebook "Everyone is watching the World Cup, but I'm rooting for one team.. in Indonesia"
I got a lot of "Likes" but I think it went over a lot of people's heads.
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I do not think I understand it either. What team in Indonesia?
The only interesting thing to come out of the semi finals is that there now is a very small country of just 4 million people in the final. Let's hope the Croatians can drill a few holes in the concrete wall the French erect around their goal with their anti-football...
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12 Jul 2018
03:43:13pm
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JS: French anti football? It is not the only team to focus on defense and rely on counter attacks. I think Croatia practices the same style of play. That is not anti football, that is primarily defensive vs offensive style.
You also have to remember who the coach is.
Wiki: "as a player, Deschamps primarily excelled at impeding the opposition's attacking movements as a defensive midfielder, and was capable of subsequently starting up attacking plays and distributing the ball to teammates once he won back possession.
This worked for him in the French victory at the World Cup of 1998, where he was the captain of the team, with Zidane and Henry as the main attacking stars. This style also worked in the former clubs he managed.
Main difference here, is that the goal keeper for France is much better.
Looking forward to the last game. It has been a great world cup!
rrr...
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Well, I beg to differ. It has been entertaining but great? A lot of disappointments (Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Portugal) and a very unbalanced scheme letting mediocre teams get far (Russia, Sweden but even England wasn't that great).both finalists played one good match. Against the same oppobent actually: Argentina.
In my opinion the main problem with this world cup was that in the knock out stages most teams were more keen to avoid losing than that they wanted to win and that is what I call anti football. The aim is to win by making more goals than the opponent, right?
One of the few exceptions to this rule was Belgium. It was their world cup just as 1974 was that of the Dutch.
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In the group stage in the World Cup it is common for do only what is necessary to end up in the top two teams in the gourp. That often results in more defensive games by the better teams. Then you have teams like Iceland that rely on defense to get through. There is nothing wrong with that. The point of the game is to win, whether that means by defense or offense, but hopefully both. A 1-0 win is a win. A 0-0 draw is a win if you only need One point to reach the knock out stage.
This is cup football not anti football In my opinion, but I see our point. We all have different viewpoints. I am partial to defensive play. We're I am to travel back in time I'd be a defender on my high school team. Defense and defensive tactics don't get enough credit, at least in the U.S. Because here people want action over substance. That's why the MLS plays like video game soccer and is hard to watch.
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As for French anti football, what France did in the second half was brilliant and only possible because of the skill,of Paul Pogba. Don't get me wrong, I wanted Belgium to win at the beginning.
So in the second half Fellaini moves to the left wing, because he's 6 ft 6 or something like that. They then bring on Dries Mertens on the right with the intention to continue I use to cross to Fellaini at the far post for a typical Mandzukic type header down into the corner of the goal. Pogba, who plays a similar position to Fellaini and is equally tall, then moves from midfield to the French defensive right. He essentially man marks Fellaini for a good 20-30 minutes. Brilliant defense by Pogba and ineffective offense by Belgium. Belgium gives up on that tactic and subs Fellaini out and Pogba returns to his usual midfield post as architect.
That is great football. It highlights superior tactics by France over Belgium. I wanted to see a Belgium vs CroTia final, but France played better.
The Croatia England game was equally thrilling to me and this 3rd place game going on now is pretty good.
World Cup soccer is never going to be as good as league play and not as good as UEFA champions league and regional league cups because they don't play enough games in the World Cup group stage. UEFA champions league games are two legs each match up, so it's twice the number of games. It will be even worse in eight years with 48 teams. I've been re watching Italian league games from last year featuring Juventus and it is striking how much better these league games are to World Cup football. But I'm partial to the Italian game and Italian league tactics.
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Croatia showing more intent. France a bit defensive but still leading by a goal at halftime. 2-1.
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Congratulations to France. Indeed a great game to watch.
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And thus it ends ... really was hoping Croatia would pull this one out, but 'twasn't to be.
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06:36:34am
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What I find revealing is the interest being shown in the US in the Soccer World Cup.
In my youth, most Americans had never even heard of soccer let alone watched it, and now thousands must have at least a passing interest in it.
What we need now is to get you all interested in Rugby ( and even one day maybe cricket !Perhaps that one is a step too far !). Yes I do know that there is some interest in the US in Rugby already ( American Football for the slight of build, perhaps ? )
Malcolm
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Malcolm...I assume, as you are a Leicester man, you mean Rugby Union.
I much prefer Rugby League, our own Super League can be good.
You can also watch the Australian version of Rugby League, the NRL on U tube, it can be BRUTAL!!
Cricket can be exciting at the T20 level, or the Indian Premier League.
I much prefer sitting in the sun, sipping a nice ice cream float listening to Aggers and Boycott on Test Match Special.
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09:54:43am
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I live in Leicester, but originate in Yorkshire - hence I am a Rugby League man. My claim to fame is that my Mother went to school with Eddie Waring - the commentator who made Rugby League popular outside it's northern heartland.
… and of course being from Yorkshire, my religion is cricket.
Malcolm
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In my family we have a couple of rugby players. My brother in law played for a long time and almost made it to the Dutch under-18 selection (that was a long time ago...). My son also played for a while, but now he switched to football due to the fact that the our new home borders the football fields :-)
In the Netherlands it's all Union. I don't know why, but it is. For a long time I did not even know there was a different variety being played called Rugby League. As a matter of fact, it was only because of Australian stamps showing Rugby League players that I found out. After that, I watched some Rugby League games on youtube, but to be honest, it did not captivate me. Not at all, actually. I like to watch Rugby Union though. The season for the international matches is starting again soon, so I think I'll be trying to watch some on the BBC :-)
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