Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Gary
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Since you live in Floyd county you need to immediately start adding 7% to all of you SoR purchases or else the G men and T men will storm your house and take all of your stamp albums and your computer.
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The sky isn't falling yet - class action lawsuits, hopefully Congressional action, etc. will result in a workable plan. Always thought that the fair way might be an "internet sales tax" applied to each transaction and somehow distributed amongst the states.
Obviously, with no small business exception it would put all small sellers (and most small websites) out of business. There is no way that a single proprietor selling over the internet could possibly be expected to comply with the thousands of tax jurisdictions around the country. In NYS there is state, county and municipal taxes to consider. We used to have to file monthly whether or not we had any sales. Failure to file was an automatic $50 fine. Now it is yearly. I spent a couple of hours of paperwork to submit my collected sales tax of something like $3.86 for the year.
And while "getting caught" for random, small sales on sites like SOR is improbable, don't underestimate the ability of states to do random audits, it would be easy to do.....
So it is wait and see ...... can't imagine it will be a large problem but if it is we will all be in the same boat.
And please, everyone remember that this is politically neutral - it was a Supreme Court decision. Work with your Congresspeople on both sides of the aisle to bring sanity to the situation-
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Hey Ernie,
Georgia passed a law in the recent months in anticipation of the Supreme Court coming down in favor of the states. The law goes in effect on 1 Jan 2019. It states that any company or individual who has $250,000 or more than 200 transactions that are shipped to Georgia from online sales must collect the same sales tax as a busines that is located physically in the state.
Gary
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Is it just me or has the world gone looney, this seems to be a reason to drive the internet to the dark web or to put a lot of folks out of work, or both.
Guess all those current running a business could now get employed by the revenue services as they will need vast numbers of people to do all the checking.
Nice to know the government still employs a lot of crackpots.
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Hey Gary, from your auction totals it looks like you are a prolific buyer on SoR. That's awesome... Using your own best estimate, do you think you have racked up 200 transactions from one seller in calendar year? I'm going to guess that the answer is no.
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As the SCOTUS has only decided that the states have the right to charge sales tax, you will have to pay attention to the laws passed in your state.
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Ernie,
The 200 transactions is not from the buyer's side of the transaction but from the seller's side. If you were to make more than a total of 200 individual transactions to Georgia buyers within a calendar year; it would be enforceable on you although you are shipping from another state.
Gary
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Gotcha. That makes sense. The onus is on the seller to collect the tax.
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How many Sellers here have sales of $250,000, spread over SOR, Ebay, Hipstamps, delcampe, Stamps to go, stamps4me, webstore, their own websites etc etc etc????
I'll have to sell the Porsche, the Ferrari, the yacht and the speedboat!!!...
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I would love to know how much the most successful sellers on SoR are making in pure profit. Anyone care to throw out a ballpark figure? At .04 and .05 on the approvals it can't be much but I'm sure I would be surprised. If someone kept 20-40 very active open books up, over time it could add up.
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Ernie:- Please define what you mean by a "Successful" seller.
One seller may sell 100 items per week grossing $100, his "profit" may be $10.
Second seller may sell 50 items per week grossing $100, his "profit" may be $10.
Who is the most "successful"?
Is it the member who sold the 100 items or the member who sold the 50 items?
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" . . . the Ferrari,"
Oh no! Not the Ferrari!
"Who is the most "successful"?"
Ah, a philosophical question, I like it.
Also consider the amount of "profit" made per hour. I suspect it will not be very profitable if you subtract a decent wage of $20 per hour as income from the "profits".
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Hey Ian. I know no one is getting rich doing it. I guess the answer is the most successful is the one who has the most fun.
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Ernie.......WELL DONE
As long as both Sellers are happy they are both successful.
Success is a perception, it is in the eye of the beholder.
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You're cool dude Ian. One of these days I'm going to make it over there to meet you and the rest of the UK boys.
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Ernie:- To quote Jack O'Neil, from Stargate SG1....."Back at you".
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Hard to say. I collect no salary and if I was to calculate how much "profit" I have made across all sites and divided it by the number of hours worked, I am nowhere near minimum wage over a 20+ year span. It is all for the fun of it for the most part. Seriously though, I am guessing that the big guys will collect the taxes from the sellers and do the paperwork, all at a cost to us of course. There is no way for the small seller to do it. They will all just raise prices and let the big guys pay the taxes. I have no idea how this affects eBid & Delcampe as they are not US based companies. If I had to pay taxes on sales on SOR the door would close. If I was selling thousands a month that would be one thing, but for a couple of hundred its simply not possible.
Greg
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This will happen eventually.
There will be a technical solution. Something like eBay or Paypal adding the correct sales tax to every transaction from a gigasize tax database. Then they will send in the tax payments. Of course this will be a service for a fee. They'll tack on a percentage. Another profit center. I can hear them smacking their chops already!
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In all seriousness across here all businesses with Annual Sales of $90,000 (approx) must be registered for Value Added Tax (VAT).
This means that 20% is added to the final Sale.
ie if you go into a shop, or have your car serviced for $120, included in that price is the $20 VAT.
The business has to total up all these 20 percentages, take off any VAT they have paid to suppliers and send the difference to the national Government.
That's it in its simplest form. There are products that are VAT free like food, newspapers and children's clothes.
The equivelant local government areas (like your States) have no sales taxes, they do level taxes on homes and business premises(depends on the value of the property) but the majority of their money comes from Central Government. (around 80-85%)
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Sales tax has nothing to do with profits. It is strictly sales-oriented. If your state has a 5% sales tax rate, and you sell an item for $1.00, you collect an extra $0.05 for the state for a total of $1.05. When you file your sales tax collection report form, you owe your state $0.05. That $0.05 is never your money. It belongs to the state, and you are a defacto tax collector.
With this ruling, if you sell an item to someone living in a state other than the one you live in, you will need to collect the sales tax relative to that state, and often the locale where your buyer lives. You may be filing hundreds of sales tax collection reports. At least the post office will be getting more money for the postage.
That's why the states, like Georgia and South Dakota have implemented laws to help the small businesses whereby there is a minimum sales dollar amount, or sales volume (not items sold, but number of sales: people who buy one stamp, pay for it, buy one more stamp and pay for it, buy two stamps and pay for them, equals three sales, for example) that has to be met before a seller needs to pay sales tax. That in itself adds a problem in that you will have to collect sales tax from buyers regardless, because you won't know if you will go over a state's threshold. Then comes the issue of what to do with the sales tax collected for each state if a threshold is not met. It's not the seller's money, so it either needs to go to the respective state, or be refunded to the buyers.
In addition, will each seller have to apply for a sales tax collection permit? I have one in Texas, but do I need one for each taxing entity in the country to give me the authority to collect taxes?
Yes, we need the US Congress to fix this mess. Since it is interstate commerce, they have the authority to do so. They've had a couple of bills sitting around for a few years to do that, but no one in Congress is interested in taking care of people like us. Of course, that doesn't have anything to do with collecting sales tax in your home state. That is totally an in-state matter.
Just as chicks in a nest have an insatiable appetite, and their parents work endlessly to keep them feed with food, so must we peons work endlessly to feed the insatiable appetite of the politicians for money.
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here are my sales figures for the last few months on SOR
Month.........No of Items Sold...........Sales....Price /Item...Items with Mult Bids
May 2018.........768....................$286.47.....$0.37...............9
April 2018......1121....................$201.14.....$0.18..............12
March 2018......1338....................$178.69.....$0.13...............6
February 2018....446....................$100.81.....$0.23...............7
Remember there are no costs in this. No cost of postage to me, no cost of the stamps, envelopes, printer ink, printer/computer wear and tear, shoe leather walking to the post office in the pouring rain etc etc etc.
The most interesting figures in this table are the number of items that have Multiple Bids and the average price received for each item.
So Yes the Ferrari has to go.
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Ian,are sales totally random month to month? I guess it all depends on what you have to list, who's on vacation etc
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I wonder where these numbers come from. I've never really looked at my reports before. I did look at one and here is the top line
sold unsold
UNITED STATES of AMERICA (including UN) 131 1382 8.66% $299.61 $2.29 11 62
Now according to this I sold 131 US stamps in the month of May? I don't think I have sold 131 US stamps in 3 years here. I don't think I have listed 131 US stamps in 3 years here. A few revenues from time to time but thats it.
Certainly my sales are half what they were a year ago, but a lot of that is due to one buyer cutting back significantly and another leaving here and going elsewhere where he buys from me.
Yes sales are random from month to month due to vacations and my old favorite "if I'm not one of the first couple of people to look at a book, I'm not interested. I prove this over and over again by simply closing the book, blacking out what has been sold and putting it back up the next week - and the stamps sell by collectors who did not see it right away when it went up the first time. That is my main reason for cutting back books to 100-150 STAMPS rather than items. Much easier to put back up. It also allows restocking of books to be easier, and the ability to put up books from countries that I don't have a lot of stamps from.
Greg
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Hi Ernie:- Yeah everything is random, you cannot foresee what will sell.
It all depends on what you list, never mind the price or the country, whether it is MNH, MH, Used. Is it a single stamp, or a set, or a minisheet or a cover?
Is it listed in Auctions or Approvals? Who looks at the approval book first and the number of stamps the first purchaser takes, is it 10% of the book or 50% of the book?
When and which Buyers have money. When is the item listed, how long is the item listed, when does the item end. Each of the former is dependant on the actual time of the month, the actual day and the actual hour of starting and finishing.
Never mind preparing a book/lots of say Egypt only to discover someone else listed the same country a few hours before you! (i.e. competition)
How long it takes the mail to go to the US is also a factor. A buyer may not place another order until his previous order arrives and he has had time to inspect the items or put them in his album.
All the above affects/effects most sellers whether they be on SOR or any other website.
Of course the FINAL nail in the coffin can be the alignment of the stars, the phases of the moon, whether next doors dog is barking when you list an item.
You got to go OOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!
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The question gets down on where you draw the line on the minimum (sales revenue, sales transaction) to set where tax collection is required. The ones just above the line are usually the most upset and they anything to get below the line or just ignore it. I think one key aspect is if you are actually running a business and the definition. No matter what the definition is someone will not be happy. Although it is very inefficient and not always fair, I think it is fairer to traditional businesses that get a business license, pay taxes, etc.
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I know for income (IRS) purposes, PayPal will report your account to the IRS based on:
whether your payment volume exceeds BOTH of these levels in a calendar year:
$20,000 USD in gross payment volume from sales of goods or services in a single calendar year
200 payments for goods or services in the same year
I do not come close to the money threshold - so I never worried about selling stamps onlne.
How exactly will the states even know how much an individual sells on a site like this and how much sales tax should have been collected ? I wonder if PayPal will begin reporting sales to the states that have sales taxes ? Perhaps we have to go back to paper checks for everything - then whom would know about what is sold on SOR then ? As an occasional seller - if I have to start doing anything with sales tax - I would just stop all of this. It will be interesting to see what happens.
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Michael,
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that this new ruling would just make online sales work the same as brick and mortar sales. If I'm running a business in Minnesota and someone in Wisconsin buys from me, I am liable for sales tax in Minnesota but I'm not liable for sales tax on the sale to the state of Wisconsin. People living outside of the USA who buy items while travelling in the USA will initially pay sales tax in the state that they purchased the items, but when they leave the USA they can claim the sales tax back, or at least that is how it used to be.
Regards ... Tim.
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Tim, the ruling states that if you live in Minnesota, and sell something online to someone in Wisconsin, you would need to collect the sales tax due for the state of Wisconsin. When the time comes to pay the taxes collected for Wisconsin, you will need to remit the money collected to Wisconsin. It is where the buyer lives that matters with online sales. There are thousands of taxing entities that collect sales taxes in the USA. Online sellers will have to know, collect and remit taxes collected to each one (or how else it is configured for payment for a state) based on the sales tax laws for each of the thousands of taxing entities
That is why the politicians need to get off their butts and get this straightened out. It is an expensive and impossible situation for small businesses. Another example how such laws/court rulings tat are intended to go after the larger business adversely affect the smaller ones the worst (international sales shipping rates is another example).
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So when is the supreme courts ruling set to take affect?
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So I guess as it stands there will be a significant advantage for businesses (sellers) who live outside the US.
Regards ... Tim
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When the Supreme Court delivers a decision, that is when it takes effect. However, it often requires legislation by federal and/or state legislatures to comply with the decision, as in this situation.
Tim, I'm not so sure that sellers outside the US will have that much of an advantage, since the amount of sales tax a buyer may pay may be less than the shipping cost to the US.
There's really no point getting all bent out of shape over this until the state and federal legislatures put the laws in place. What the federal government does will have to come first since Washington controls interstate commerce, which is what this is. This will probably take years to do before it's all done.
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I wonder the opposite. Would it become advantageous for US sellers to switch sites and sell on eBid and Delcampe? It all depends hpw they collect the taxes. If ebay does it the way Amazon does it its not an issue for a seller unless they add a percent or two to the back end final value fee. Mark at Hipstamp posted the following. whether it is true or not I have no idea
In short, this ruling does not effect any of our Sellers, and it's unlikely that any other states would enact laws which would effect our Sellers. Nonetheless, we will keep an eye on this moving forward.
Greg
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Not being an American, but having read some things on this subject, you can take my opinion with a grain...pinch...pound of salt. But some observations:
- At the best of times, and CERTAINLY under your current administration, creating...
"a significant advantage for businesses (sellers) who live outside the US..."
- As above: a move to more, and increasingly complex, regulation does not seem to be the focus of your government. So I think the result will prove much less worthy than the debate here is worth.
- The focus of this ruling (NOT YET LAW) seems aimed at business transactions. So if you are in the business of regularly buying/selling stamps in pursuit of profit, and if you operate under a registered business name, and if you use sites geared to such an enterprise (e.g. HipStamps, eBay, etc), and if you process payments through PayPal as invoices for goods sold - you may be on the margins of the groups affected by this.
- However, if you are a member of a social group (SOR!) trading (or buying/selling) relatively small amounts of stamps (hundreds - perhaps even small thousands - of dollars annually), between your friends/colleagues, under your own name/pseudonym and not a business - then I doubt Big Brother will GAF about you collecting/remitting sales tax and tracking you down to demand compliance.
Just my opinion as a loyal American patriot (sorry, a benign Canadian not related to our incredibly threatening and high-security-risk steel/aluminum industries) ) I have full confidence the US Government will not make our lives more difficult on SOR.
G'Night, Dave.
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Dave, while your comments are well intentioned, they do not quite jive. I can not speak for the 49 states other than Texas, but I can tell you this:
In Texas, if you sell in a public venue, internet included, then you are considered a business and must collect state sales tax. In Texas, one is permitted to hold two garage/yard sales per year. If one holds more than two, then their actions are considered to be a business and sales tax must be collected. If one sells things off the side of the street, then one is considered a business and must collect sales tax.
Now, does the state come swooping down on sellers at locations like stamp shows, model train shows, gun shows, internet sales, side of the roads, flea markets, and the like? The answer is yes. One selling at such non-internet venues is required to have a sales tax collection permit, and it is required to be prominently displayed at the point of sale (booth, table, etc.). If one doesn't have such a permit, then they must complete the application and are issued one prior to being permitted to sell at the venue. For internet sales, one has to have a permit.
I have been at shows when the State Comptroller's Office showed up. I take my permit with me at all times.
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Michael: So do you think this will affect SOR members? Or at least (from your comments) certainly those in Texas? Are you planning to add sales tax to your own sales here?
Sounds quite chilling....
Dave.
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I don't sell much on SOR. At this time, I only have to collect sales tax on Texas sales. I don't have many Texas sales on the internet since that pushes up the price of my items for in-state purchases. Most of my sales are from California and Florida. Therein lies the crux of the matter, and the reason for the entire law suit.
I remit sales tax for all my direct sales from shows, websites, etc. where I sell (that do not automatically collect and pay the sales tax for me, such as the publisher of my books).
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It is the same in NY. Yes, the State people do show up at an occasional Saturday or Sunday stamp show and for the most part shows require you to have a Tax Certificate. You are considered a business. A friend of mine does major shows (related, but not stamps) all over the Northeast and the last show he did in either Massachusetts or Connecticut the state people came around and told him he needed to register ($50 fee) and file with tax due on the show sales and that he will be subject to audit. He makes a very good living buying and selling and has no problem with an audit but it is just one more thing to do. It's a large 3 day show so he will continue to do it but it is now more costly to sell just from a paperwork standpoint. (Keep in mind the seller does not pay the tax - the buyers do).
As civilization advances life becomes more complicated.
"The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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12:07:55am
The biggest problem for small on-line seller such as most SOR members.
will be for the guy who is audited for other reasons. During the audit
the auditor sees something that alerts him, or her, to on-line sales,
then the clever tax agent asks about internet sales taxes and the taxpayer
will need a better answer than "What ?" or "Huh?".
The IRS and other tax agencies employ a system called compliance
by intimidation. In other words, they essentially scare the taxpayer into
compliance "voluntarily."
They neither have, nor intend to have, the legions of snooping agents
roaming then country, seeking people to audit. However, woe betide
the unfortunate seller who tries the "What?" route as tax authorites
really want the victim to tell all his friends about how the Jackbooted
federal or State thugs kicked in the door at 6AM and demanded he produce
all kinds or records in situ. They want him to run to the local press
and cry about his harsh treatment, his fine, and tax payment is negligible
compared to the value of the number of other tax payers who suddenly
straighten up in their chair and dial a tax attorney, or certified public
accountant.
In fact, discussions like this at the next luncheon of the local businessmen's
circle accomplishes the same thing.
Another danger is the unhappy customer who decides to question a businessman's practices and complains to the state tax office where the business is located
or where it is likely there is a ton of sales to be taxed.
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09:31:58am
How is the recent ruling on collecting sales tax on each sale going to affect your online sales since it will be required for each state's sales whether you live there or not?
Gary
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Since you live in Floyd county you need to immediately start adding 7% to all of you SoR purchases or else the G men and T men will storm your house and take all of your stamp albums and your computer.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
The sky isn't falling yet - class action lawsuits, hopefully Congressional action, etc. will result in a workable plan. Always thought that the fair way might be an "internet sales tax" applied to each transaction and somehow distributed amongst the states.
Obviously, with no small business exception it would put all small sellers (and most small websites) out of business. There is no way that a single proprietor selling over the internet could possibly be expected to comply with the thousands of tax jurisdictions around the country. In NYS there is state, county and municipal taxes to consider. We used to have to file monthly whether or not we had any sales. Failure to file was an automatic $50 fine. Now it is yearly. I spent a couple of hours of paperwork to submit my collected sales tax of something like $3.86 for the year.
And while "getting caught" for random, small sales on sites like SOR is improbable, don't underestimate the ability of states to do random audits, it would be easy to do.....
So it is wait and see ...... can't imagine it will be a large problem but if it is we will all be in the same boat.
And please, everyone remember that this is politically neutral - it was a Supreme Court decision. Work with your Congresspeople on both sides of the aisle to bring sanity to the situation-
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09:59:10am
re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Hey Ernie,
Georgia passed a law in the recent months in anticipation of the Supreme Court coming down in favor of the states. The law goes in effect on 1 Jan 2019. It states that any company or individual who has $250,000 or more than 200 transactions that are shipped to Georgia from online sales must collect the same sales tax as a busines that is located physically in the state.
Gary
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Is it just me or has the world gone looney, this seems to be a reason to drive the internet to the dark web or to put a lot of folks out of work, or both.
Guess all those current running a business could now get employed by the revenue services as they will need vast numbers of people to do all the checking.
Nice to know the government still employs a lot of crackpots.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Hey Gary, from your auction totals it looks like you are a prolific buyer on SoR. That's awesome... Using your own best estimate, do you think you have racked up 200 transactions from one seller in calendar year? I'm going to guess that the answer is no.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
As the SCOTUS has only decided that the states have the right to charge sales tax, you will have to pay attention to the laws passed in your state.
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10:41:03am
re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Ernie,
The 200 transactions is not from the buyer's side of the transaction but from the seller's side. If you were to make more than a total of 200 individual transactions to Georgia buyers within a calendar year; it would be enforceable on you although you are shipping from another state.
Gary
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Gotcha. That makes sense. The onus is on the seller to collect the tax.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
How many Sellers here have sales of $250,000, spread over SOR, Ebay, Hipstamps, delcampe, Stamps to go, stamps4me, webstore, their own websites etc etc etc????
I'll have to sell the Porsche, the Ferrari, the yacht and the speedboat!!!...
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
I would love to know how much the most successful sellers on SoR are making in pure profit. Anyone care to throw out a ballpark figure? At .04 and .05 on the approvals it can't be much but I'm sure I would be surprised. If someone kept 20-40 very active open books up, over time it could add up.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Ernie:- Please define what you mean by a "Successful" seller.
One seller may sell 100 items per week grossing $100, his "profit" may be $10.
Second seller may sell 50 items per week grossing $100, his "profit" may be $10.
Who is the most "successful"?
Is it the member who sold the 100 items or the member who sold the 50 items?
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
" . . . the Ferrari,"
Oh no! Not the Ferrari!
"Who is the most "successful"?"
Ah, a philosophical question, I like it.
Also consider the amount of "profit" made per hour. I suspect it will not be very profitable if you subtract a decent wage of $20 per hour as income from the "profits".
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Hey Ian. I know no one is getting rich doing it. I guess the answer is the most successful is the one who has the most fun.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
You're cool dude Ian. One of these days I'm going to make it over there to meet you and the rest of the UK boys.
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Hard to say. I collect no salary and if I was to calculate how much "profit" I have made across all sites and divided it by the number of hours worked, I am nowhere near minimum wage over a 20+ year span. It is all for the fun of it for the most part. Seriously though, I am guessing that the big guys will collect the taxes from the sellers and do the paperwork, all at a cost to us of course. There is no way for the small seller to do it. They will all just raise prices and let the big guys pay the taxes. I have no idea how this affects eBid & Delcampe as they are not US based companies. If I had to pay taxes on sales on SOR the door would close. If I was selling thousands a month that would be one thing, but for a couple of hundred its simply not possible.
Greg
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Approvals
re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
This will happen eventually.
There will be a technical solution. Something like eBay or Paypal adding the correct sales tax to every transaction from a gigasize tax database. Then they will send in the tax payments. Of course this will be a service for a fee. They'll tack on a percentage. Another profit center. I can hear them smacking their chops already!
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
In all seriousness across here all businesses with Annual Sales of $90,000 (approx) must be registered for Value Added Tax (VAT).
This means that 20% is added to the final Sale.
ie if you go into a shop, or have your car serviced for $120, included in that price is the $20 VAT.
The business has to total up all these 20 percentages, take off any VAT they have paid to suppliers and send the difference to the national Government.
That's it in its simplest form. There are products that are VAT free like food, newspapers and children's clothes.
The equivelant local government areas (like your States) have no sales taxes, they do level taxes on homes and business premises(depends on the value of the property) but the majority of their money comes from Central Government. (around 80-85%)
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Sales tax has nothing to do with profits. It is strictly sales-oriented. If your state has a 5% sales tax rate, and you sell an item for $1.00, you collect an extra $0.05 for the state for a total of $1.05. When you file your sales tax collection report form, you owe your state $0.05. That $0.05 is never your money. It belongs to the state, and you are a defacto tax collector.
With this ruling, if you sell an item to someone living in a state other than the one you live in, you will need to collect the sales tax relative to that state, and often the locale where your buyer lives. You may be filing hundreds of sales tax collection reports. At least the post office will be getting more money for the postage.
That's why the states, like Georgia and South Dakota have implemented laws to help the small businesses whereby there is a minimum sales dollar amount, or sales volume (not items sold, but number of sales: people who buy one stamp, pay for it, buy one more stamp and pay for it, buy two stamps and pay for them, equals three sales, for example) that has to be met before a seller needs to pay sales tax. That in itself adds a problem in that you will have to collect sales tax from buyers regardless, because you won't know if you will go over a state's threshold. Then comes the issue of what to do with the sales tax collected for each state if a threshold is not met. It's not the seller's money, so it either needs to go to the respective state, or be refunded to the buyers.
In addition, will each seller have to apply for a sales tax collection permit? I have one in Texas, but do I need one for each taxing entity in the country to give me the authority to collect taxes?
Yes, we need the US Congress to fix this mess. Since it is interstate commerce, they have the authority to do so. They've had a couple of bills sitting around for a few years to do that, but no one in Congress is interested in taking care of people like us. Of course, that doesn't have anything to do with collecting sales tax in your home state. That is totally an in-state matter.
Just as chicks in a nest have an insatiable appetite, and their parents work endlessly to keep them feed with food, so must we peons work endlessly to feed the insatiable appetite of the politicians for money.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
here are my sales figures for the last few months on SOR
Month.........No of Items Sold...........Sales....Price /Item...Items with Mult Bids
May 2018.........768....................$286.47.....$0.37...............9
April 2018......1121....................$201.14.....$0.18..............12
March 2018......1338....................$178.69.....$0.13...............6
February 2018....446....................$100.81.....$0.23...............7
Remember there are no costs in this. No cost of postage to me, no cost of the stamps, envelopes, printer ink, printer/computer wear and tear, shoe leather walking to the post office in the pouring rain etc etc etc.
The most interesting figures in this table are the number of items that have Multiple Bids and the average price received for each item.
So Yes the Ferrari has to go.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Ian,are sales totally random month to month? I guess it all depends on what you have to list, who's on vacation etc
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
I wonder where these numbers come from. I've never really looked at my reports before. I did look at one and here is the top line
sold unsold
UNITED STATES of AMERICA (including UN) 131 1382 8.66% $299.61 $2.29 11 62
Now according to this I sold 131 US stamps in the month of May? I don't think I have sold 131 US stamps in 3 years here. I don't think I have listed 131 US stamps in 3 years here. A few revenues from time to time but thats it.
Certainly my sales are half what they were a year ago, but a lot of that is due to one buyer cutting back significantly and another leaving here and going elsewhere where he buys from me.
Yes sales are random from month to month due to vacations and my old favorite "if I'm not one of the first couple of people to look at a book, I'm not interested. I prove this over and over again by simply closing the book, blacking out what has been sold and putting it back up the next week - and the stamps sell by collectors who did not see it right away when it went up the first time. That is my main reason for cutting back books to 100-150 STAMPS rather than items. Much easier to put back up. It also allows restocking of books to be easier, and the ability to put up books from countries that I don't have a lot of stamps from.
Greg
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Hi Ernie:- Yeah everything is random, you cannot foresee what will sell.
It all depends on what you list, never mind the price or the country, whether it is MNH, MH, Used. Is it a single stamp, or a set, or a minisheet or a cover?
Is it listed in Auctions or Approvals? Who looks at the approval book first and the number of stamps the first purchaser takes, is it 10% of the book or 50% of the book?
When and which Buyers have money. When is the item listed, how long is the item listed, when does the item end. Each of the former is dependant on the actual time of the month, the actual day and the actual hour of starting and finishing.
Never mind preparing a book/lots of say Egypt only to discover someone else listed the same country a few hours before you! (i.e. competition)
How long it takes the mail to go to the US is also a factor. A buyer may not place another order until his previous order arrives and he has had time to inspect the items or put them in his album.
All the above affects/effects most sellers whether they be on SOR or any other website.
Of course the FINAL nail in the coffin can be the alignment of the stars, the phases of the moon, whether next doors dog is barking when you list an item.
You got to go OOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
The question gets down on where you draw the line on the minimum (sales revenue, sales transaction) to set where tax collection is required. The ones just above the line are usually the most upset and they anything to get below the line or just ignore it. I think one key aspect is if you are actually running a business and the definition. No matter what the definition is someone will not be happy. Although it is very inefficient and not always fair, I think it is fairer to traditional businesses that get a business license, pay taxes, etc.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
I know for income (IRS) purposes, PayPal will report your account to the IRS based on:
whether your payment volume exceeds BOTH of these levels in a calendar year:
$20,000 USD in gross payment volume from sales of goods or services in a single calendar year
200 payments for goods or services in the same year
I do not come close to the money threshold - so I never worried about selling stamps onlne.
How exactly will the states even know how much an individual sells on a site like this and how much sales tax should have been collected ? I wonder if PayPal will begin reporting sales to the states that have sales taxes ? Perhaps we have to go back to paper checks for everything - then whom would know about what is sold on SOR then ? As an occasional seller - if I have to start doing anything with sales tax - I would just stop all of this. It will be interesting to see what happens.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Michael,
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that this new ruling would just make online sales work the same as brick and mortar sales. If I'm running a business in Minnesota and someone in Wisconsin buys from me, I am liable for sales tax in Minnesota but I'm not liable for sales tax on the sale to the state of Wisconsin. People living outside of the USA who buy items while travelling in the USA will initially pay sales tax in the state that they purchased the items, but when they leave the USA they can claim the sales tax back, or at least that is how it used to be.
Regards ... Tim.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Tim, the ruling states that if you live in Minnesota, and sell something online to someone in Wisconsin, you would need to collect the sales tax due for the state of Wisconsin. When the time comes to pay the taxes collected for Wisconsin, you will need to remit the money collected to Wisconsin. It is where the buyer lives that matters with online sales. There are thousands of taxing entities that collect sales taxes in the USA. Online sellers will have to know, collect and remit taxes collected to each one (or how else it is configured for payment for a state) based on the sales tax laws for each of the thousands of taxing entities
That is why the politicians need to get off their butts and get this straightened out. It is an expensive and impossible situation for small businesses. Another example how such laws/court rulings tat are intended to go after the larger business adversely affect the smaller ones the worst (international sales shipping rates is another example).
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
So when is the supreme courts ruling set to take affect?
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
So I guess as it stands there will be a significant advantage for businesses (sellers) who live outside the US.
Regards ... Tim
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
When the Supreme Court delivers a decision, that is when it takes effect. However, it often requires legislation by federal and/or state legislatures to comply with the decision, as in this situation.
Tim, I'm not so sure that sellers outside the US will have that much of an advantage, since the amount of sales tax a buyer may pay may be less than the shipping cost to the US.
There's really no point getting all bent out of shape over this until the state and federal legislatures put the laws in place. What the federal government does will have to come first since Washington controls interstate commerce, which is what this is. This will probably take years to do before it's all done.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
I wonder the opposite. Would it become advantageous for US sellers to switch sites and sell on eBid and Delcampe? It all depends hpw they collect the taxes. If ebay does it the way Amazon does it its not an issue for a seller unless they add a percent or two to the back end final value fee. Mark at Hipstamp posted the following. whether it is true or not I have no idea
In short, this ruling does not effect any of our Sellers, and it's unlikely that any other states would enact laws which would effect our Sellers. Nonetheless, we will keep an eye on this moving forward.
Greg
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Not being an American, but having read some things on this subject, you can take my opinion with a grain...pinch...pound of salt. But some observations:
- At the best of times, and CERTAINLY under your current administration, creating...
"a significant advantage for businesses (sellers) who live outside the US..."
- As above: a move to more, and increasingly complex, regulation does not seem to be the focus of your government. So I think the result will prove much less worthy than the debate here is worth.
- The focus of this ruling (NOT YET LAW) seems aimed at business transactions. So if you are in the business of regularly buying/selling stamps in pursuit of profit, and if you operate under a registered business name, and if you use sites geared to such an enterprise (e.g. HipStamps, eBay, etc), and if you process payments through PayPal as invoices for goods sold - you may be on the margins of the groups affected by this.
- However, if you are a member of a social group (SOR!) trading (or buying/selling) relatively small amounts of stamps (hundreds - perhaps even small thousands - of dollars annually), between your friends/colleagues, under your own name/pseudonym and not a business - then I doubt Big Brother will GAF about you collecting/remitting sales tax and tracking you down to demand compliance.
Just my opinion as a loyal American patriot (sorry, a benign Canadian not related to our incredibly threatening and high-security-risk steel/aluminum industries) ) I have full confidence the US Government will not make our lives more difficult on SOR.
G'Night, Dave.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Dave, while your comments are well intentioned, they do not quite jive. I can not speak for the 49 states other than Texas, but I can tell you this:
In Texas, if you sell in a public venue, internet included, then you are considered a business and must collect state sales tax. In Texas, one is permitted to hold two garage/yard sales per year. If one holds more than two, then their actions are considered to be a business and sales tax must be collected. If one sells things off the side of the street, then one is considered a business and must collect sales tax.
Now, does the state come swooping down on sellers at locations like stamp shows, model train shows, gun shows, internet sales, side of the roads, flea markets, and the like? The answer is yes. One selling at such non-internet venues is required to have a sales tax collection permit, and it is required to be prominently displayed at the point of sale (booth, table, etc.). If one doesn't have such a permit, then they must complete the application and are issued one prior to being permitted to sell at the venue. For internet sales, one has to have a permit.
I have been at shows when the State Comptroller's Office showed up. I take my permit with me at all times.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
Michael: So do you think this will affect SOR members? Or at least (from your comments) certainly those in Texas? Are you planning to add sales tax to your own sales here?
Sounds quite chilling....
Dave.
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
I don't sell much on SOR. At this time, I only have to collect sales tax on Texas sales. I don't have many Texas sales on the internet since that pushes up the price of my items for in-state purchases. Most of my sales are from California and Florida. Therein lies the crux of the matter, and the reason for the entire law suit.
I remit sales tax for all my direct sales from shows, websites, etc. where I sell (that do not automatically collect and pay the sales tax for me, such as the publisher of my books).
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re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
It is the same in NY. Yes, the State people do show up at an occasional Saturday or Sunday stamp show and for the most part shows require you to have a Tax Certificate. You are considered a business. A friend of mine does major shows (related, but not stamps) all over the Northeast and the last show he did in either Massachusetts or Connecticut the state people came around and told him he needed to register ($50 fee) and file with tax due on the show sales and that he will be subject to audit. He makes a very good living buying and selling and has no problem with an audit but it is just one more thing to do. It's a large 3 day show so he will continue to do it but it is now more costly to sell just from a paperwork standpoint. (Keep in mind the seller does not pay the tax - the buyers do).
As civilization advances life becomes more complicated.
"The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
26 Jun 2018
12:07:55am
re: Recent Supreme Court ruling on Sales Tax collections
The biggest problem for small on-line seller such as most SOR members.
will be for the guy who is audited for other reasons. During the audit
the auditor sees something that alerts him, or her, to on-line sales,
then the clever tax agent asks about internet sales taxes and the taxpayer
will need a better answer than "What ?" or "Huh?".
The IRS and other tax agencies employ a system called compliance
by intimidation. In other words, they essentially scare the taxpayer into
compliance "voluntarily."
They neither have, nor intend to have, the legions of snooping agents
roaming then country, seeking people to audit. However, woe betide
the unfortunate seller who tries the "What?" route as tax authorites
really want the victim to tell all his friends about how the Jackbooted
federal or State thugs kicked in the door at 6AM and demanded he produce
all kinds or records in situ. They want him to run to the local press
and cry about his harsh treatment, his fine, and tax payment is negligible
compared to the value of the number of other tax payers who suddenly
straighten up in their chair and dial a tax attorney, or certified public
accountant.
In fact, discussions like this at the next luncheon of the local businessmen's
circle accomplishes the same thing.
Another danger is the unhappy customer who decides to question a businessman's practices and complains to the state tax office where the business is located
or where it is likely there is a ton of sales to be taxed.
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