Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Hi to all
Attached are two scans from the latest collection arrival.
It forms two parts, one decimal currency and one Pre-Decimal.
The parts are both in very old seven seas stamps albums.
The Die I white wattles is one of the puzzles'.
The information underneath says
DIe I, TA joined. (This being the TA of postage.)
Now is this a variety listed in the ACSC, or something unknown.
Now the second item is the 5/- Sydney Harbour Bridge.
Now even I can see that something is wrong here.
It has been postally used. (CTO)
So is it an unknown forgery, or a known forgery?
Any information on its production would be greatly appreciated.
I can not see any listing of a forgery for the 5/- Bridge in the ACSC.
Regards
Horamakhet
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The joined TA is one of the identifying characteristics of Die I.
The Harbour Bridge is a replica, often inserted into collections. It comes from the 1972 Anpex souvenir sheet
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Hi Dave
Thanks for the info.
Do the post office issue the replica, or is it a cinderella?
Regards
Horamakhet
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It's a cinderella.
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Hi Dave
Thanks for the fascinating info.
I glad that one is cleared up.
There are literally hundreds of stamps to check.
Horamakhet
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07:58:34pm
I have a web page explaining the Australia 1937 set. It includes blow ups of the 3d Dies.
Please take a look if you are interested. I have over 175 pages with almost 3,800 images devoted to various sets from the British Colonies.
Australia 1937 Set:
http://www.kgvistamps.com/articles/Australia-KG6-1937/Australia-KG6-1937.html
Index to the complete list of pages:
http://www.kgvistamps.com/KGVIStamps-ArticleIndex.html
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Hi Horamakhet
The KGVI is actually a "white wattles", a sample from my collection is shown, showing the joined "TA". The joined "TA" is a slightly repaired "white wattles".
White Wattles
Joined "TA"
Your scan is pasty and not very well defined but by what I can ascertain it is a white wattles.
Rob
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Hi kgvistamps
Very helpful web site.
Thanks for the image snowy.
Sorry about that rob, it si 600dpi
Also here a scan of the nice block of four, of the Australian Antarctic Territory showing the "Morning" masquerading as the "Nimrod" MNH
Regards
To all.
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The 5/ has been called the "Five Bob Bridge" stamp. It was issued for the opening of the bridge. The ship passing under is RMS Orford, a passenger ship on the Australia to England run. Operating as a cargo ship in 1940, it was bombed in an air raid off Marseille and beached. It was towed to be broken up at Savona in 1947. For a full story of the ship, kevincurrie.com.au
Wine
PS ... the 5/ will set you back a quid or two, I paid $160.00 (USD) for my used copy. But, of course, I HAD to have the full set.
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Hi Winedrinker
Thanks for the very interesting info of the ship, and paying US$160 is quite cheap for the 5/- stamp.
Here is an extended partial set, is a few more yet to collect (I'll be replacing the 5/- soon for a superbly centred MUH)
Rob
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Hey Rob, please post a picture of the MUH 5/ when you get it. Would love to see that!
Cheers,
Wine
PS Thanks for starting the post Horamakhet. Good stuff.
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Will do Winedrinker
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Hi All
Winedrinker, fascinating info about the ship under the bridge.
Rob, do you have a copy of the 2d forgery, or is it very scarce.
All the used 5/- I have seen lately, and well, disgusting is the only word to describe them.
Would love to own a MNH, but they are getting so unaffordable, but, you never know what turns up.
Regards
Horamakhet
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IMHO, the five bob is a hugely over-rated (and overpriced!) stamp.
The official quantity sold was 72,800, not including the CTO examples. Not exactly scarce, and the value comes from the perceived "iconic" status of the stamp.
By far the best example to purchase is a clean postally used one. They are without doubt the scarcest.
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Hi Horamakhet
Unfortunately I do not have a forged 2d bridge, they are very rare (I missed out on one a few weeks back, will have to wait until another is on the market), the ACSC values them at $3,000 in MUH. A well centred 5/- Bridge in MUH will set one back $1,350.
Rob
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Hi Dave
I must agree that one can view the 5/- Bridge as being over-rated, although 72,800 were issued that doesn’t mean that there are still 72,800 in existence. As these stamps were made during the depression (1929-39), the paper and perforation quality was very poor and a 5/- Harbour Bridge in pristine condition is very seldom offered for sale.
Postally used issues are scarce but not the scarcest as they rate only twice the value of a CTO; by far the mint unhinged issue is the scarcest of all three conditions. Of course the postally used will always carry home the trophy when compared to a CTO, but the best example of the 5/- Bridge, matter of fact any stamp will be MUH.
Rob
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Hi Rob, it's a matter of personal opinion and preference. Of course, I agree that many won't have survived, and by the time used, CTO and damaged are taken into consideration, MUH are scarce. However, I could find ten MUH available on line if I so chose. To clarify my comment re the postally used being the most desirable, I stand by that. VFU examples are hugely underpriced (that said, I do have a MH, CTO and FU example). I won't be shelling out for a MUH example.The perceived value of the 5/- bridge far outweighs it's true value.
Personally, I rate truly scarce items such as these over readily-available "icons".
Bouvet Island. 1,000 produced and 305 recorded used, so no more than 695 remain mint. Cost is one-third of a 5/- bridge
Falkland Islands. 6,240 issued, 2,656 returned for destruction, so a maximum of 3,584 exist. Available $700-900.
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Hi Dave
True, it is a matter of personal opinion and preference, and there are a few MUH issues available online, but to obtain one without fluffy and undamaged perfs, undamaged gum and the design well centred to superbly centred, which is what I am seeking is very scarce, and finding one is very difficult.
Although I can obtain a commercially used 5/- Bridge, the MUH issue I described is on top of my Harbour Bridge list. A commercially used 5/- Harbour Bridge will definitely compliment my MUH when I get it soon and I will probably buy the used stamp at the same time.
Rob
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This has turned into a most interesting discussion. While I defer to Rob and Dave on their acumen regarding stamps -- they are a thousand miles beyond me. I do question the concept of value, specifically in reference to Dave's comment on the 5/ being overvalued. Value is market driven, whether one agrees with the market or not. While that value may be based on bogus premises, it is hard to ignore the catalogue value (another topic). Time will tell, as in the case of the Tulip craze or other "hot" commodities. Subjectivity rules more often than not. Regardless, good tidings to all.
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Hi to all
I saw a used 5/- bridge the other day, and I think it should have been thrown away.
The postmark was ugly and black, and yet the person wants $300.00 for it.
Somebody will think it is a bargain, but for that amount of money, I would want a very clean used stamp.
As winedrinker says, price is driven by the market, but sometimes the market has no idea, and sometimes some dealers are just trying to make a quick buck out of unwary collectors.
In no way is this a reflection on all the honest and competent dealers and collectors out there. So I hope no one is offended by my opinion.,
I will keep searching, till I find a nice clean used copy, until I can afford a nice un-used one.
Horamakhet
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Hi Winedrinker
Good comment, and quite accurate on market and catalogue value.
Rob
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Hi Horamakhet,
You make sense. Wait until the time is right and you'll find what you need. Patience is key
A "well-known dealer" wanted $100 for this car-crash spacefiller last year:
At the same time, I sold this for just $20 more. Also a spacefiller, but presentable:
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Hi Horamakhet
The $300 would be about right for that particular stamp, but it was a wise move not to buy it, a clean cancellation would normally cost around the $450 mark.
In my opinion an ugly thick cancellation can mask damage on the surface, and of course the aesthetic design of the stamp would be compromised, which to me is very important, if that stamp had a hinge remnant or moderate hinging, the stamp would probably cost around the same price as that of a CTO.
I’ve seen 5/- Harbours with chunks taken out of the corners rendering them to mere gap fillers selling for hundreds, such damage would render them worthless, but there will, and to succinctly say it in your words “Somebody will think it is a bargain”.
There are clean 5/- Bridges around, they are difficult to locate, but they do turn up every now and then.
Rob
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Hi to all
Attached are two scans from the latest collection arrival.
It forms two parts, one decimal currency and one Pre-Decimal.
The parts are both in very old seven seas stamps albums.
The Die I white wattles is one of the puzzles'.
The information underneath says
DIe I, TA joined. (This being the TA of postage.)
Now is this a variety listed in the ACSC, or something unknown.
Now the second item is the 5/- Sydney Harbour Bridge.
Now even I can see that something is wrong here.
It has been postally used. (CTO)
So is it an unknown forgery, or a known forgery?
Any information on its production would be greatly appreciated.
I can not see any listing of a forgery for the 5/- Bridge in the ACSC.
Regards
Horamakhet
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
The joined TA is one of the identifying characteristics of Die I.
The Harbour Bridge is a replica, often inserted into collections. It comes from the 1972 Anpex souvenir sheet
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Dave
Thanks for the info.
Do the post office issue the replica, or is it a cinderella?
Regards
Horamakhet
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
It's a cinderella.
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Dave
Thanks for the fascinating info.
I glad that one is cleared up.
There are literally hundreds of stamps to check.
Horamakhet
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Collecting King George VI from all countries, and King Edward VII and King George V from the West Indies.
24 Nov 2018
07:58:34pm
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
I have a web page explaining the Australia 1937 set. It includes blow ups of the 3d Dies.
Please take a look if you are interested. I have over 175 pages with almost 3,800 images devoted to various sets from the British Colonies.
Australia 1937 Set:
http://www.kgvistamps.com/articles/Australia-KG6-1937/Australia-KG6-1937.html
Index to the complete list of pages:
http://www.kgvistamps.com/KGVIStamps-ArticleIndex.html
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
24 Nov 2018
09:47:02pm
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Horamakhet
The KGVI is actually a "white wattles", a sample from my collection is shown, showing the joined "TA". The joined "TA" is a slightly repaired "white wattles".
White Wattles
Joined "TA"
Your scan is pasty and not very well defined but by what I can ascertain it is a white wattles.
Rob
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi kgvistamps
Very helpful web site.
Thanks for the image snowy.
Sorry about that rob, it si 600dpi
Also here a scan of the nice block of four, of the Australian Antarctic Territory showing the "Morning" masquerading as the "Nimrod" MNH
Regards
To all.
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
The 5/ has been called the "Five Bob Bridge" stamp. It was issued for the opening of the bridge. The ship passing under is RMS Orford, a passenger ship on the Australia to England run. Operating as a cargo ship in 1940, it was bombed in an air raid off Marseille and beached. It was towed to be broken up at Savona in 1947. For a full story of the ship, kevincurrie.com.au
Wine
PS ... the 5/ will set you back a quid or two, I paid $160.00 (USD) for my used copy. But, of course, I HAD to have the full set.
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
27 Nov 2018
02:23:16pm
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Winedrinker
Thanks for the very interesting info of the ship, and paying US$160 is quite cheap for the 5/- stamp.
Here is an extended partial set, is a few more yet to collect (I'll be replacing the 5/- soon for a superbly centred MUH)
Rob
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hey Rob, please post a picture of the MUH 5/ when you get it. Would love to see that!
Cheers,
Wine
PS Thanks for starting the post Horamakhet. Good stuff.
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
27 Nov 2018
02:54:55pm
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Will do Winedrinker
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi All
Winedrinker, fascinating info about the ship under the bridge.
Rob, do you have a copy of the 2d forgery, or is it very scarce.
All the used 5/- I have seen lately, and well, disgusting is the only word to describe them.
Would love to own a MNH, but they are getting so unaffordable, but, you never know what turns up.
Regards
Horamakhet
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
IMHO, the five bob is a hugely over-rated (and overpriced!) stamp.
The official quantity sold was 72,800, not including the CTO examples. Not exactly scarce, and the value comes from the perceived "iconic" status of the stamp.
By far the best example to purchase is a clean postally used one. They are without doubt the scarcest.
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
28 Nov 2018
12:41:23am
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Horamakhet
Unfortunately I do not have a forged 2d bridge, they are very rare (I missed out on one a few weeks back, will have to wait until another is on the market), the ACSC values them at $3,000 in MUH. A well centred 5/- Bridge in MUH will set one back $1,350.
Rob
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
28 Nov 2018
01:32:57am
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Dave
I must agree that one can view the 5/- Bridge as being over-rated, although 72,800 were issued that doesn’t mean that there are still 72,800 in existence. As these stamps were made during the depression (1929-39), the paper and perforation quality was very poor and a 5/- Harbour Bridge in pristine condition is very seldom offered for sale.
Postally used issues are scarce but not the scarcest as they rate only twice the value of a CTO; by far the mint unhinged issue is the scarcest of all three conditions. Of course the postally used will always carry home the trophy when compared to a CTO, but the best example of the 5/- Bridge, matter of fact any stamp will be MUH.
Rob
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Rob, it's a matter of personal opinion and preference. Of course, I agree that many won't have survived, and by the time used, CTO and damaged are taken into consideration, MUH are scarce. However, I could find ten MUH available on line if I so chose. To clarify my comment re the postally used being the most desirable, I stand by that. VFU examples are hugely underpriced (that said, I do have a MH, CTO and FU example). I won't be shelling out for a MUH example.The perceived value of the 5/- bridge far outweighs it's true value.
Personally, I rate truly scarce items such as these over readily-available "icons".
Bouvet Island. 1,000 produced and 305 recorded used, so no more than 695 remain mint. Cost is one-third of a 5/- bridge
Falkland Islands. 6,240 issued, 2,656 returned for destruction, so a maximum of 3,584 exist. Available $700-900.
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
28 Nov 2018
04:33:49am
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Dave
True, it is a matter of personal opinion and preference, and there are a few MUH issues available online, but to obtain one without fluffy and undamaged perfs, undamaged gum and the design well centred to superbly centred, which is what I am seeking is very scarce, and finding one is very difficult.
Although I can obtain a commercially used 5/- Bridge, the MUH issue I described is on top of my Harbour Bridge list. A commercially used 5/- Harbour Bridge will definitely compliment my MUH when I get it soon and I will probably buy the used stamp at the same time.
Rob
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
This has turned into a most interesting discussion. While I defer to Rob and Dave on their acumen regarding stamps -- they are a thousand miles beyond me. I do question the concept of value, specifically in reference to Dave's comment on the 5/ being overvalued. Value is market driven, whether one agrees with the market or not. While that value may be based on bogus premises, it is hard to ignore the catalogue value (another topic). Time will tell, as in the case of the Tulip craze or other "hot" commodities. Subjectivity rules more often than not. Regardless, good tidings to all.
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi to all
I saw a used 5/- bridge the other day, and I think it should have been thrown away.
The postmark was ugly and black, and yet the person wants $300.00 for it.
Somebody will think it is a bargain, but for that amount of money, I would want a very clean used stamp.
As winedrinker says, price is driven by the market, but sometimes the market has no idea, and sometimes some dealers are just trying to make a quick buck out of unwary collectors.
In no way is this a reflection on all the honest and competent dealers and collectors out there. So I hope no one is offended by my opinion.,
I will keep searching, till I find a nice clean used copy, until I can afford a nice un-used one.
Horamakhet
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
28 Nov 2018
07:51:15pm
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Winedrinker
Good comment, and quite accurate on market and catalogue value.
Rob
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re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Horamakhet,
You make sense. Wait until the time is right and you'll find what you need. Patience is key
A "well-known dealer" wanted $100 for this car-crash spacefiller last year:
At the same time, I sold this for just $20 more. Also a spacefiller, but presentable:
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
28 Nov 2018
08:04:42pm
re: The Rest of the collection has arrived, but poses a few questions allready.
Hi Horamakhet
The $300 would be about right for that particular stamp, but it was a wise move not to buy it, a clean cancellation would normally cost around the $450 mark.
In my opinion an ugly thick cancellation can mask damage on the surface, and of course the aesthetic design of the stamp would be compromised, which to me is very important, if that stamp had a hinge remnant or moderate hinging, the stamp would probably cost around the same price as that of a CTO.
I’ve seen 5/- Harbours with chunks taken out of the corners rendering them to mere gap fillers selling for hundreds, such damage would render them worthless, but there will, and to succinctly say it in your words “Somebody will think it is a bargain”.
There are clean 5/- Bridges around, they are difficult to locate, but they do turn up every now and then.
Rob
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