Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Login to Like
this post
How they are organized now?
Are they sorted by country in some specific order? It is not uncommon for collectors/hoarders to store spares in a separate collections and organization depends on collector.
The question is how do you want to organize them for display?
Login to Like
this post
.
On the theory that you do not want to do it all twice, vinyl is not generally considered to be a proper archival material.
Q/ Were you using the word vinyl in a generic or specific sense?
Most folks organize by catalog number (which translates to by country and, then, more/less chronologically).
Any potential buyer will appreciate that system, as they will know where to look for the goodies.
But you get to be you.
Topical collectors would pull-out all of the stamps that pertain to their topic, for example.
Most collectors would segregate particular usages, putting all of the perfins & precancels & SOTNs & plate number singles & & & in their own binders.
It kinda depends on what you want to look at when you are looking for something else.
If you are looking for an Ajmani stamp with a horse on it, would you want to look at page after page of Ajmani stamps, or page after page of horse stamps?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey (who was Twelve Years a Slave to Scott)
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
It looks like the past owner used what he had available. The nine pocket pages are for sports cards. Probably ok quality for archive since they are used for valuable cards.
Login to Like
this post
.
They are not vinyl ... note the description on their website ... "PVC-free".
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
I recently did a little research for a local historical society re conservation-quality sleeves for 3-ring binders. This was done quickly, but note that the use of terms such as "acid-free" and "archival quality" do not guarantee anything. I found only one 3-ring binder product (https://www.universityproducts.com/photo-album-pocket-pages.html) that is described thoroughly enough to be considered for conservation quality work. I suspect this is because most museum work involves box storage rather than 3-ring binder storage. Do your own due diligence.
Here are some informative links.
https://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/?fbclid=IwAR0aKVMY7KoyCR0gpkEA_7xa0xIwtyboGGFsdlkoQjlHPEn91Gav15rXWdg
And this one:
A technical publication by James M. Reilly of the Imaging Permanence Institute is devoted to color photography storage, but may be generally applicable.
That institute developed the standard P. A. T. test (Photographic Activity Test) for quantifying the actual "archival" and/or "acid-free" qualities of conservation type products. The P. A. T. test seems to be a reliable test for high-quality page protectors and other conservation products, but I'm not sure how widely used it is. Plus, P. A. T.-tested products are probably going to be more expensive.
Storage Guide for Color Photographic Materials
The attached image shows an excerpt from that publication. The full pdf document can be found here.
https://www.imagepermanenceinstitute.org/webfm_send/517
And another source:
This is an excerpt.
Plastic Enclosures
Plastics work well in instances where it is important to be able to see an item while avoiding unnecessary handling, but not all plastics are safe for collections. Acetates can change dimension and enclosures made from polyvinyl chloride (PVC) release harmful compounds that may affect the stability and appearance of collection materials. There are safe options, though. Preservation-grade polyester (often sold under the trade name Melinex) is the most stable, but polyethylene or polypropylene can also be used safely if they do not contain plasticizers.
When considering paper or plastic enclosures for photographs, choose materials that pass the Photographic Activity Test (PAT). This guarantees that the enclosure will not react chemically with photographs.
Quick Reference: Choosing Enclosures
Choose boxes without gaps or handle holes and with snug lids to help exclude dust and pollutants.
Use acid-free, lignin-free and buffered paper, board and tissue, unless the object is alkaline sensitive.
Use polyester, polyethylene or polypropylene if plastic enclosures are preferred.
Paper and plastic enclosures for photographs should pass the PAT.
The size and shape of envelopes, boxes, and folders should match the objects they hold.
Purchase or make custom-fitted book boxes to ensure proper support and fit.
https://www.nedcc.org/.../caring-for-private-and-family...
And finally:
Another document produced by the Northeast Document Conservation Center that addresses the storage issues related to photographs.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s...
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Another useful source for true archival quality storage is a company called Archival Methods at http://www.archivalmethods.com/ as they provide a wide range of useful products including binders, paper, etc. I have been very happy with their service and products.
(Modified by Moderator on 2019-02-09 06:52:14)
Login to Like
this post
"I recently did a little research"
Yes keesindy I'll say you did! Thank you so much for all this food for thought.
Login to Like
this post
Enclosing historical documents in ANY kind of page protectors is not done by archival libraries. For example, you will not find sheet protectors of any type being used at the Library of Congress.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
"Enclosing historical documents in ANY kind of page protectors is not done by archival libraries. For example, you will not find sheet protectors of any type being used at the Library of Congress.
Don"
True. They generally have more resources to devote to conservation and collections management. Many local historical societies genealogy enthusiasts survive on limited budgets. They are more likely to resort to convenient methods for displaying and accessing materials. They're often more concerned about paying their bills and mortgates than conserving the collections. In the case that prompted my research, the museum had asked members for donations of 3-ring binder sheet protectors. No specifications whatsoever. I presented my limited research and suggested they consider restricting their request to conservation-quality materials that met a minimum set of criteria. Of course, their dilemma is the higher cost of such products. And, as I discovered, a small number of options to choose from.
Tom
Login to Like
this post
Hi Tom,
"…They are more likely to resort to convenient methods for displaying and accessing materials. They're often more concerned about paying their bills and mortgates than conserving the collections"
Yikes, that is like a zoo justifying substandard exhibits because they have to pay the rent before taking care of the animals. In my opinion conservation should be a core competency of any historical society. I would question their feasibility if they cannot do their basic responsibilities correctly.
But I think it is great that you are trying to help these folks and I think that your discovery is accurate. In addition to the points your post makes about the terms ‘archival’ and ‘acid free’, I have previously posted that there is no oversight for these manufacturers. Try contacting these manufacturers and ask them for their archival testing methods or results. (They have none.)
What these manufacturers do is simply make a product without PVC plastics and certain plasticizers and then stamp ‘archival’ on the package. Consumers are duped into thinking they are doing the right thing. True archival materials are expensive; it is much more costly to design, test, and monitor the production of archival products.
Lastly, this is what happens when historic document owners restrict air circulation of un-neutralized paper.
https://www.npr.org/2017/02/21/515410087/an-attempt-to-save-south-carolinas-historical-documents-is-destroying-them
Quoting from the archival specialist…
"You're effectively forming an envelope where you're keeping the acids in the paper, not allowing them to migrate out," says Molly McGath, a researcher at Johns Hopkins University."
They might want to take a look at this kind of storage
https://www.archives.gov/preservation/holdings-maintenance/procedures.html
Don
Login to Like
this post
"... Alternatives that will achieve the goal of separating highly acidic materials from records on better quality paper include placing the highly acidic records in polyester sleeves ..."
Even the evil nonporous sleeves have their uses.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
Maybe this deserves a new topic, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. However, it is storage related.
Are glassine envelopes archival? I have seen some discolor to a tan or brown color, and even get brittle. I have yet to see stamps change color because of this.
I'd like to place some thin sheet, maybe glassine, inside my covers. I have seen glue on envelopes turn brown and even bleed stain to the front.
Would glassine sheets be a viable option?
Login to Like
this post
Glassines are definitely not archival in my experience. While they do have a very long shelf life they do very poorly unless in humidity and temperature controlled environments. The newer types of approval cards seem to hold up better although humidity can be a particular issue with them as well. I've also seem a number of problems with the 102 cards that have black ink and/or inserts where the color transfers onto the back of stamps so would rate them even below glassines.
UPDATE: My biggest concern with humidity is stamps sticking to the containing item. As others have mentioned the material should allow some breathing of the stamps so impermeable plastics are an issue. I believe the sheet plastic material used as an alternative to glassine pages in stamp albums is a type of permeable plastic. The product I have seen is G&K Interleaving Sheets Crystal-Clear Film to fit Scott International Albums Product No. GS-ACEIC.
Login to Like
this post
Thanks jbaxter5256.
Anyone else use something besides cardstock in their covers to stop the front from being stained?
Login to Like
this post
'
If you don't want to use cardstock, any archival paper could be cut to fit snugly inside a cover.
Use more than one sheet, and I would think that your fronts would be safe from your backs for many, many years.
If glassine absorbs water vapor more readily than stamps, that might very well be the good news.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
I got sidetracked for a few months back in February and lost track of this thread. I didn't see Don's response to my post until just now.
Don included a link to an amazing story where the state of South Carolina actually laminated their various state constitutions!!!! Unbelievable. They should have known better even back in the '50 and '60s.
An excerpt:
"For 20 years, beginning in the 1950s, the state laminated documents like this to try to protect them from aging. This discoloration is not supposed to be happening; it's caused by a chemical reaction. The natural acids from the paper mix with the degrading laminate to create a noxious vinegar."
Most papers are fragile and the keepers of worthwhile paper of every kind need to be knowledgeable and take special care to preserve paper items for future generations. Pay attention to what materials you are using and the methods you are using to store and preserve your stamps, covers, etc. We're all curators! Future generations will thank you.
Tom
Login to Like
this post
Petvet asked:
"Anyone else use something besides cardstock in their covers to stop the front from being stained?"
I think most reputable frame shops now use genuinely archival matting materials when they're framing customers' artworks. You might check with them and ask for scraps that they're throwing in the trash. If you have choices, go for the cotton rag matting materials. Some matting (and paper) materials are even "buffered" to provide an even greater protection against acification over time. If you were to obtain scraps of cotton rag matting boards that have been buffered, you would be hard pressed to do any better than that.
Tom
Login to Like
this post
"If you don't want to use cardstock, any archival paper could be cut to fit snugly inside a cover.
Use more than one sheet, and I would think that your fronts would be safe from your backs for many, many years."
I think back in the early days, 1920s and 1930s, people put cardstock in their covers to keep them in shape in the mails. I don't believe covers had aged enough then to have those familiar angled streaks of envelope glue on the fronts. In fact, I have covers completely toned due to an acidic stiffener placed inside. So it is just happy coincidence that they protected the envelope fronts, at least in my mind.
As many covers have hit that 50-100 year mark, the glue stains appeared. I even have early Artcraft first day covers with those.
I recently came across a dealer who had a ton of George Washington Bicentennial event covers (1932) for cheap. I went through his offerings with my album open, and replaced at least 6 of my messy covers with new ones. When they arrived every cover had a stiffener sealed inside the envelope. I'm not changing a thing!
Login to Like
this post
"... I don't believe covers had aged enough then to have those familiar angled streaks of envelope glue on the fronts ... I have covers completely toned due to an acidic stiffener placed inside ..."
I had always thought that the reason our ancestors would 'face' the envelope - that is, remove the front from the back, and save only the front - was so that the 'cover' could be more easily mounted in an album.
Recently, while being appalled at some 'faced' covers, it occurred to me that, back in the day, saving only the front of the envelope may also have been a preservation technique.
In the absence of air conditioning & de-humidifiers, the generations past would have discovered very quickly that some envelope glues were catastrophically hydrophilic.
Given how many ancient envelopes are just fine - and how many envelopes from more recent decades are ruined - I am prepared to guess that stable storage matters most of all.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
I inherited two stamp collections in the past year and have added to the storage systems that the former custodian of these stamps used. That is standard 3 ring binders of various sizes along with either see-through vinyl pages with about 9 equal sized "pockets on each side used primarily for stamps off of envelopes and bulk items. Other albums were binders but with various depth rows to accommodate vertical, horizontal or square issues. Finally the album the Harris Citation Stamp album. Now the second system bothers me. Stamps are just shoved down to the base of each there is no proper spacing and if you forget a country you're screwed! And turning pages is with caution and unknown results. Any fundamental do's and don'ts getting started? Thanks everyone you are all friendly to us new folks and always willing to help.
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
How they are organized now?
Are they sorted by country in some specific order? It is not uncommon for collectors/hoarders to store spares in a separate collections and organization depends on collector.
The question is how do you want to organize them for display?
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
.
On the theory that you do not want to do it all twice, vinyl is not generally considered to be a proper archival material.
Q/ Were you using the word vinyl in a generic or specific sense?
Most folks organize by catalog number (which translates to by country and, then, more/less chronologically).
Any potential buyer will appreciate that system, as they will know where to look for the goodies.
But you get to be you.
Topical collectors would pull-out all of the stamps that pertain to their topic, for example.
Most collectors would segregate particular usages, putting all of the perfins & precancels & SOTNs & plate number singles & & & in their own binders.
It kinda depends on what you want to look at when you are looking for something else.
If you are looking for an Ajmani stamp with a horse on it, would you want to look at page after page of Ajmani stamps, or page after page of horse stamps?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey (who was Twelve Years a Slave to Scott)
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Approvals
re: Storage and Display
It looks like the past owner used what he had available. The nine pocket pages are for sports cards. Probably ok quality for archive since they are used for valuable cards.
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
.
They are not vinyl ... note the description on their website ... "PVC-free".
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
I recently did a little research for a local historical society re conservation-quality sleeves for 3-ring binders. This was done quickly, but note that the use of terms such as "acid-free" and "archival quality" do not guarantee anything. I found only one 3-ring binder product (https://www.universityproducts.com/photo-album-pocket-pages.html) that is described thoroughly enough to be considered for conservation quality work. I suspect this is because most museum work involves box storage rather than 3-ring binder storage. Do your own due diligence.
Here are some informative links.
https://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/?fbclid=IwAR0aKVMY7KoyCR0gpkEA_7xa0xIwtyboGGFsdlkoQjlHPEn91Gav15rXWdg
And this one:
A technical publication by James M. Reilly of the Imaging Permanence Institute is devoted to color photography storage, but may be generally applicable.
That institute developed the standard P. A. T. test (Photographic Activity Test) for quantifying the actual "archival" and/or "acid-free" qualities of conservation type products. The P. A. T. test seems to be a reliable test for high-quality page protectors and other conservation products, but I'm not sure how widely used it is. Plus, P. A. T.-tested products are probably going to be more expensive.
Storage Guide for Color Photographic Materials
The attached image shows an excerpt from that publication. The full pdf document can be found here.
https://www.imagepermanenceinstitute.org/webfm_send/517
And another source:
This is an excerpt.
Plastic Enclosures
Plastics work well in instances where it is important to be able to see an item while avoiding unnecessary handling, but not all plastics are safe for collections. Acetates can change dimension and enclosures made from polyvinyl chloride (PVC) release harmful compounds that may affect the stability and appearance of collection materials. There are safe options, though. Preservation-grade polyester (often sold under the trade name Melinex) is the most stable, but polyethylene or polypropylene can also be used safely if they do not contain plasticizers.
When considering paper or plastic enclosures for photographs, choose materials that pass the Photographic Activity Test (PAT). This guarantees that the enclosure will not react chemically with photographs.
Quick Reference: Choosing Enclosures
Choose boxes without gaps or handle holes and with snug lids to help exclude dust and pollutants.
Use acid-free, lignin-free and buffered paper, board and tissue, unless the object is alkaline sensitive.
Use polyester, polyethylene or polypropylene if plastic enclosures are preferred.
Paper and plastic enclosures for photographs should pass the PAT.
The size and shape of envelopes, boxes, and folders should match the objects they hold.
Purchase or make custom-fitted book boxes to ensure proper support and fit.
https://www.nedcc.org/.../caring-for-private-and-family...
And finally:
Another document produced by the Northeast Document Conservation Center that addresses the storage issues related to photographs.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s...
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Storage and Display
Another useful source for true archival quality storage is a company called Archival Methods at http://www.archivalmethods.com/ as they provide a wide range of useful products including binders, paper, etc. I have been very happy with their service and products.
(Modified by Moderator on 2019-02-09 06:52:14)
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
"I recently did a little research"
Yes keesindy I'll say you did! Thank you so much for all this food for thought.
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
Enclosing historical documents in ANY kind of page protectors is not done by archival libraries. For example, you will not find sheet protectors of any type being used at the Library of Congress.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Storage and Display
"Enclosing historical documents in ANY kind of page protectors is not done by archival libraries. For example, you will not find sheet protectors of any type being used at the Library of Congress.
Don"
True. They generally have more resources to devote to conservation and collections management. Many local historical societies genealogy enthusiasts survive on limited budgets. They are more likely to resort to convenient methods for displaying and accessing materials. They're often more concerned about paying their bills and mortgates than conserving the collections. In the case that prompted my research, the museum had asked members for donations of 3-ring binder sheet protectors. No specifications whatsoever. I presented my limited research and suggested they consider restricting their request to conservation-quality materials that met a minimum set of criteria. Of course, their dilemma is the higher cost of such products. And, as I discovered, a small number of options to choose from.
Tom
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
Hi Tom,
"…They are more likely to resort to convenient methods for displaying and accessing materials. They're often more concerned about paying their bills and mortgates than conserving the collections"
Yikes, that is like a zoo justifying substandard exhibits because they have to pay the rent before taking care of the animals. In my opinion conservation should be a core competency of any historical society. I would question their feasibility if they cannot do their basic responsibilities correctly.
But I think it is great that you are trying to help these folks and I think that your discovery is accurate. In addition to the points your post makes about the terms ‘archival’ and ‘acid free’, I have previously posted that there is no oversight for these manufacturers. Try contacting these manufacturers and ask them for their archival testing methods or results. (They have none.)
What these manufacturers do is simply make a product without PVC plastics and certain plasticizers and then stamp ‘archival’ on the package. Consumers are duped into thinking they are doing the right thing. True archival materials are expensive; it is much more costly to design, test, and monitor the production of archival products.
Lastly, this is what happens when historic document owners restrict air circulation of un-neutralized paper.
https://www.npr.org/2017/02/21/515410087/an-attempt-to-save-south-carolinas-historical-documents-is-destroying-them
Quoting from the archival specialist…
"You're effectively forming an envelope where you're keeping the acids in the paper, not allowing them to migrate out," says Molly McGath, a researcher at Johns Hopkins University."
They might want to take a look at this kind of storage
https://www.archives.gov/preservation/holdings-maintenance/procedures.html
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
"... Alternatives that will achieve the goal of separating highly acidic materials from records on better quality paper include placing the highly acidic records in polyester sleeves ..."
Even the evil nonporous sleeves have their uses.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
10:12:06pm
re: Storage and Display
Maybe this deserves a new topic, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. However, it is storage related.
Are glassine envelopes archival? I have seen some discolor to a tan or brown color, and even get brittle. I have yet to see stamps change color because of this.
I'd like to place some thin sheet, maybe glassine, inside my covers. I have seen glue on envelopes turn brown and even bleed stain to the front.
Would glassine sheets be a viable option?
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
Glassines are definitely not archival in my experience. While they do have a very long shelf life they do very poorly unless in humidity and temperature controlled environments. The newer types of approval cards seem to hold up better although humidity can be a particular issue with them as well. I've also seem a number of problems with the 102 cards that have black ink and/or inserts where the color transfers onto the back of stamps so would rate them even below glassines.
UPDATE: My biggest concern with humidity is stamps sticking to the containing item. As others have mentioned the material should allow some breathing of the stamps so impermeable plastics are an issue. I believe the sheet plastic material used as an alternative to glassine pages in stamp albums is a type of permeable plastic. The product I have seen is G&K Interleaving Sheets Crystal-Clear Film to fit Scott International Albums Product No. GS-ACEIC.
Login to Like
this post
12:10:09pm
re: Storage and Display
Thanks jbaxter5256.
Anyone else use something besides cardstock in their covers to stop the front from being stained?
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
'
If you don't want to use cardstock, any archival paper could be cut to fit snugly inside a cover.
Use more than one sheet, and I would think that your fronts would be safe from your backs for many, many years.
If glassine absorbs water vapor more readily than stamps, that might very well be the good news.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
I got sidetracked for a few months back in February and lost track of this thread. I didn't see Don's response to my post until just now.
Don included a link to an amazing story where the state of South Carolina actually laminated their various state constitutions!!!! Unbelievable. They should have known better even back in the '50 and '60s.
An excerpt:
"For 20 years, beginning in the 1950s, the state laminated documents like this to try to protect them from aging. This discoloration is not supposed to be happening; it's caused by a chemical reaction. The natural acids from the paper mix with the degrading laminate to create a noxious vinegar."
Most papers are fragile and the keepers of worthwhile paper of every kind need to be knowledgeable and take special care to preserve paper items for future generations. Pay attention to what materials you are using and the methods you are using to store and preserve your stamps, covers, etc. We're all curators! Future generations will thank you.
Tom
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
Petvet asked:
"Anyone else use something besides cardstock in their covers to stop the front from being stained?"
I think most reputable frame shops now use genuinely archival matting materials when they're framing customers' artworks. You might check with them and ask for scraps that they're throwing in the trash. If you have choices, go for the cotton rag matting materials. Some matting (and paper) materials are even "buffered" to provide an even greater protection against acification over time. If you were to obtain scraps of cotton rag matting boards that have been buffered, you would be hard pressed to do any better than that.
Tom
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: Storage and Display
"If you don't want to use cardstock, any archival paper could be cut to fit snugly inside a cover.
Use more than one sheet, and I would think that your fronts would be safe from your backs for many, many years."
I think back in the early days, 1920s and 1930s, people put cardstock in their covers to keep them in shape in the mails. I don't believe covers had aged enough then to have those familiar angled streaks of envelope glue on the fronts. In fact, I have covers completely toned due to an acidic stiffener placed inside. So it is just happy coincidence that they protected the envelope fronts, at least in my mind.
As many covers have hit that 50-100 year mark, the glue stains appeared. I even have early Artcraft first day covers with those.
I recently came across a dealer who had a ton of George Washington Bicentennial event covers (1932) for cheap. I went through his offerings with my album open, and replaced at least 6 of my messy covers with new ones. When they arrived every cover had a stiffener sealed inside the envelope. I'm not changing a thing!
Login to Like
this post
re: Storage and Display
"... I don't believe covers had aged enough then to have those familiar angled streaks of envelope glue on the fronts ... I have covers completely toned due to an acidic stiffener placed inside ..."
I had always thought that the reason our ancestors would 'face' the envelope - that is, remove the front from the back, and save only the front - was so that the 'cover' could be more easily mounted in an album.
Recently, while being appalled at some 'faced' covers, it occurred to me that, back in the day, saving only the front of the envelope may also have been a preservation technique.
In the absence of air conditioning & de-humidifiers, the generations past would have discovered very quickly that some envelope glues were catastrophically hydrophilic.
Given how many ancient envelopes are just fine - and how many envelopes from more recent decades are ruined - I am prepared to guess that stable storage matters most of all.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post