Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Here is my first cut at an expanded Smithsonian "One For Every Country" Collection.
REMEMBER THE RULES:
1. No Offices Abroad, Local Stamps, or Occupation stamps. Those go in last section.
2. All dates are stamp issuing dates (although Smithsonian was quite inconsistent, I tried to clean that up).
3. This is MY example of an expansion, for your consideration and comment. You may decide to go a totally different route. That's OK, and please tell us why.
For some strange reason, Smithsonian put Equitorial Guinea in Western Africa instead of Central Africa. I fixed that:
EASTERN AFRICA
I really like the replica of the Swiss Canton stamp on Comoros 398!
Login to Like
this post
Hi Lars,
Lots more nice stamps!
I have a few comments:
Djibouti:
I would split Obock into two, Obock and Djibouti to reflect the names used on the stamps (and the change of the capital from Obock to Djibouti).
The dates for these and French Somali Coast are difficult given the names on the stamps.
I believe technically the colony was called Territoire d'Obock et Dépendances until 1896 and then Côte française des Somalis et Dépendances from 1896 to 1967.
Ethiopia:
I would split Ethiopia into Empire and Republic.
Kenya:
I would split British East Africa into British East Africa Company and British East Africa.
I would add one or possibly two more predecessors:
- Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika and Zanzibar (although this would just be for the KUT 1964 Olympics issue) and more importantly,
- Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania for the later issues of the East African Postal Administration.
Madagascar:
I would drop British Consular Mail as a predecessor or move it to the Foreign Post Offices, Locals etc. section.
I'm fond of these stamps but they are rare and very local in nature.
I much more often see the separate British Inland Post stamps and I would add these in the BOB section if you want to keep the British Consular Mail there.
You might want to consider splitting the Malagasy Republic into the autonomous and independent periods (rather like other French associated state or autonomous state periods)
Login to Like
this post
Shouldn't Sudan be in North Africa, as it has been historically and philatelically linked to Egypt?
Likewise, shouldn't Rwanda and Burundi belong to the same region as Zaire, as former Belgian colonies?
As for British consular mail, I understand it was the main postal service for the precolonial monarchy in Madagascar.
Login to Like
this post
Greaden, I think I can address your points, and Nigel, please allow me time to research yours and reply later.
You are likely correct about carving up Africa. That is the continent that I know the least about, and I simply corrected the obvious mistake of Eq. Guinea and a few precedent countries. The rest is in line with how Smithsonian divided the continent. I will learn more about what you have presented and decide if I want to make changes to my pages. Thanks for pointing those issues out for others that may consider a similar endeavor.
I debated dropping British consular mail for the reasons Nigel stated, but ultimately opted to keep it for the reasons you stated. This is another tricky one everyone will have to decide for themselves.
In the next batch for "EASTERN AFRICA" you can see more "Associated State" entries. These are also found in several Caribbean nations. That denotes the time of self rule before full independence.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Nigel,
I have had a chance to review your suggestions:
1. "Obock and Djibouti" - I believe that what I have is sufficient. The French Somali Coast stamp covers the move from Obock to Djibouti
2. "I would split Ethiopia into Empire and Republic" - I am so glad you pointed that out! I missed that entirely! But don't I need THREE stamps:
a) Empire
b) Socialist Republic (1974-1987)
c) Republic?
3. Kenya - "split British East Africa" - I disagree. I am tracking changes to governments, not the postal administrations. Also, the KUT issues you describe are from the East African Common Services Organization. Per Wikipedia: "These stamps were issued in parallel with stamps from each of the newly independent nations. The Common Services Organization continued to issue various commemoratives, at the rate of about 10-12 per year, until early in 1976." That's not a governmental change.
4. Madagascar - We've already discussed how controversial the British Consular Post is, but you also suggested: "splitting the Malagasy Republic into the autonomous and independent periods". That's another one that I totally missed. Malagasy was self-governing until June 26, 1960 when it became fully independent and sovereign, so yes, you are correct. Thanks!
Login to Like
this post
The rest of Eastern Africa:
If you differentiate between Somali Democratic Republic and Somalia, as of the 2015 catalogue, only Scott numbers through 606 have been verified as authentic, so there are very few options for the Republic.
Even though Tanzania and Zanzibar combined briefly in the 1960's, and issued stamps with both country names, the stamps were ONLY valid in the country of issue so I included one from each country.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Middle Africa:
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi Lars,
I have a couple of follow-up comments on East Africa:
"2. "I would split Ethiopia into Empire and Republic" - I am so glad you pointed that out! I missed that entirely! But don't I need THREE stamps:
a) Empire
b) Socialist Republic (1974-1987)
c) Republic?"
Yes, I agree you could do this and it would fit in with the other transitions from communist states that we've seen already.
"3. Kenya - "split British East Africa" - I disagree. I am tracking changes to governments, not the postal administrations. "
I think we have to disagree on this one.
There was a distinct change in the form of government following the collapse of the British East Africa Company and the foundation of the British East Africa Protectorate."Also, the KUT issues you describe are from the East African Common Services Organization. Per Wikipedia: "These stamps were issued in parallel with stamps from each of the newly independent nations. The Common Services Organization continued to issue various commemoratives, at the rate of about 10-12 per year, until early in 1976." That's not a governmental change."
Regarding the later "KUT" stamps, I agree it's not a government change but it is a distinct change of name of an official stamp-issuing entity following the merger of Tanganyika and Zanzibar.
I can't think of a parallel case to these KUT issues.
Perhaps Thurn and Taxis has something in common, an entity that wasn't itself a state issuing stamps for use in several independent states.
Login to Like
this post
Hi Lars,
Nice range of African stamps. I like the layouts for CAR-Ubangi, Cameroon and Tanganyika-Zanzibar.
Here are a few more random comments:
Chad:
The Chad section seems to be duplicated on the next page.
DR Congo:
I expected to see more predecessors:
- Autonomous State of the Congo
- Belgian Congo
- Katanga
- South Kasai
Congo:
I see you have French Equatorial Africa as a predecessor for Gabon which makes sense so I would suggest having an original Middle Congo stamp here rather than one with an FEA overprint.
I would suggest French Congo may be a better predecessor here than for Gabon as Gabon was added to the French Congo colony and then separated again but it's not a big deal.
Somalia:
I was surprised to learn that Scott uses the name Oltre Giuba. I'm used to seeing Jubaland in the catalogues.
I couldn't see what I think of as British Somaliland until I realised it was under Somaliland Protectorate which is the correct name but its example stamp is from the Italian UN Protectorate (like the one next to it).
South Sudan:
I really like your stamp with the shoebills. I've not seen that one before.
Login to Like
this post
"Chad:
The Chad section seems to be duplicated on the next page.
DR Congo:
I expected to see more predecessors:"
That is so embarrassing! Yup, one page that was supposed to be re-scanned didn't happen. I have reviewed all of the pages and this was the only one I missed as far as I can tell. That will also address half of your issues with DR Congo, and I will address the rest later, but I wanted to correct this page now while I research your other comments.
Login to Like
this post
Northern Africa:
Login to Like
this post
Hi Lars,
It was good to see the Belgian Congo appear by magic!
It's quite something to see all the Morocco/Spanish West Africa stamps together in one place.
Libya:
I'm guessing we'll see Fezzan (and Ghadames) under Occupations in the BOB?
Tunisia:
You may wish to consider adding a stamp for the Autonomous State of 1955-56.
Botswana
I would put British Bechuanaland as a predecessor to South Africa rather than Botswana.
The Bechuanaland Protectorate eventually became independent as Botswana as shown here.
However, the colony of British Bechuanaland was merged into Cape Colony (Cape of Good Hope).
Login to Like
this post
Does the Algerian State/Etat Algerien of 1962 count? I am referring to the French stamps overprinted EA; Scott 286-290.
For Morocco, should the French Moroccan stamps overprinted Tangier, and even the British offices there, count on the same level as the Spanish Tanger stamps?
(edited to correct Scott number)
Login to Like
this post
Nigel:
Regarding British East Africa:
"I think we have to disagree on this one. There was a distinct change in the form of government following the collapse of the British East Africa Company and the foundation of the British East Africa Protectorate."
I want to explain my position not to try to convince you otherwise, but to help those struggling with the same dilemma see the opposing arguments. My position is that either BEAC was a seamless predecessor to BEAP, and any stamp 1890-1903 will do for BEA, or BEAC was a private enterprise that belongs in BOB and the dates should be 1895-1903 for BEA. That's why I have a stamp from BEAP instead of BEAC. Either way, I'm covered!
"DR Congo:
I expected to see more predecessors:
- Autonomous State of the Congo
- Belgian Congo
- Katanga
- South Kasai"
Katanga - from Scott Volume 4 - "Established nations did not recognize Katanga as an independent state". (I tried to put Katanga in brackets in that quote, but HTML hates that).
South Kasai - Scott Volume 6 - Scott doesn't recognize ANY stamps from here!
"I see you have French Equatorial Africa as a predecessor for Gabon which makes sense so I would suggest having an original Middle Congo stamp here rather than one with an FEA overprint."
The stamp I have meets the date criteria, but I see your point. I will make that an upgrade priority.
"Somalia:
I couldn't see what I think of as British Somaliland until I realised it was under Somaliland Protectorate which is the correct name but its example stamp is from the Italian UN Protectorate (like the one next to it)."
Yikes! I swear I got one of those stamps. I will go through my "extras" this weekend to see if I misplaced it, but you are 100% correct! Thanks for catching that!!!
"Libya:
I'm guessing we'll see Fezzan (and Ghadames) under Occupations in the BOB? "
I don't think they are there. Remember, these are only SELECTED occupations, etc. Intended to be a sampling only. If you think these rise to the level of requiring inclusion, I'm all ears!
"Tunisia:
You may wish to consider adding a stamp for the Autonomous State of 1955-56."
I can't find anything to support that and even if I could, I would just back up the date of the transitional state by 1 year. I think Colony / Autonomy / Republic works well. I don't want to drill down deeper unless there is some overwhelming reason to do so.
"Botswana
I would put British Bechuanaland as a predecessor to South Africa rather than Botswana."
Holy cow!!! I totally missed that! Of course, Stellaland was on the northern edge of British Bechuanaland, at that's considered a precedent country to South Africa. Thank you for pointing out that obvious mistake (that is inherited from the Smithsonian pages - I didn't manufacture that one).
Greaden:
"Does the Algerian State/Etat Algerien of 1962 count? I am referring to the French stamps overprinted EA; Scott 286-290. "
I would consider those local stamps
"For Morocco, should the French Moroccan stamps overprinted Tangier, and even the British offices there, count on the same level as the Spanish Tanger stamps?"
I'm not sure what you are referring to specifically, perhaps Nigel can help.
Lars
Login to Like
this post
Hi Greaden,
Yes, that's a good point about the post offices in Tangier.
The Tangier International Zone lay outside the French and Spanish protectorates and was governed by an international commission.
The British, French and Spanish issues for Tangier were all effectively for foreign post offices.
Login to Like
this post
Next up:
SOUTHERN AFRICA:
I hope you approve of my treatment of South Africa. Like Germany, it just needs TWO stamps!
Login to Like
this post
Hi Lars,
You may wish to consider three more potential predecessors of Benin:
- Benin Protectorate, 1892 - 1894
- Dahomey and Dependencies or simply Dahomey, 1899 - 1942
- Autonomous Republic of Dahomey, 1960, prior to independence.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Ditto on Benin. I would go further and separate Dahomey as a French West African colony from pre-1904 Dahomey and Dependencies, which was a protectorate consisting of several indigenous monarchies.
Does Ascension belong to West Africa? I understand that the South Atlantic islands of Ascension, St. Helena, and Tristan de Cunha have been historically tied more to South Africa in terms of trade, communication, and settlement.
Swaziland: it is now going by the name eSwatini, though I have yet to see a stamp with that name.
Login to Like
this post
You weren't supposed to start on Western Africa yet! Oh well, here's the rest of it. The next page may help a bit:
Login to Like
this post
Hi Lars,
"You weren't supposed to start on Western Africa yet! Oh well, here's the rest of it. The next page may help a bit:"
Oops, yes indeed.
I have just a few comments this time.
Nigeria:
I suggest you add one more predecessor, the Oil Rivers Protectorate.
Another possibility would be the secessionist Biafra.
St Helena:
St Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha have been administered as a single territory although they have their own stamps.
Since 2009 the territory has been called Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha and before then Saint Helena and Dependencies.
However, I have no problem with keeping three separate entries.
Login to Like
this post
I plan to do the same for Africa as I did for Europe:
FIRST - here are previously discussed and resolved issues:
1. Obock and Djibouti - I decided stay with what I have.
2. Ethiopia - split:
a) Empire
b) Socialist Republic (1974-1987)
c) Republic
3. Malagasy Republic - split:
a) Self-governing until June 26, 1960
b) Fully independent and sovereign
4. DR Congo - Katanga and South Kasai were not generally recognized
5. Middle Congo - replace stamp with one without FEA overprint
6. Somaliland Protectorate has wrong stamp - fix
7. Libya - Fezzan (and Ghadames) are candidates for inclusion in Occupations BOB
8. Tunisia - Autonomous State 1955-56 - I was unable to find anything to support that
9. Botswana - move British Bechuanaland as predecessor to South Africa instead of Botswana
10. Algerian State/Etat Algerian of 1962 considered local stamps
SECOND - Here are some previously outstanding issues:
1. "Shouldn't Sudan be in North Africa?" - After researching I must agree. What is less certain is whether South Sudan is included as well. Comments?
2. Ascension, St. Helena and Tristan da Cunha - should they be in Western Africa or Southern Africa? - Smithsonian has Western Africa. Greaden suggests Southern Africa. Comments?
3. As far as moving Rwanda and Burundi from Eastern Africa to Central Africa, I couldn't find many maps that support that.
4. Madagascar - British Consular Mail - I'm still waffling on that one, but now leaning away. (I was initially VERY hesitant to demote anything from the Smithsonian pages, but the more obvious mistakes all of you have pointed out have made me less reluctant to depart from their initial offering).
5. Kenya - split British East Africa into BEA Company and BEA. Nigel, you NEVER pushed back hard on ANYTHING until this one, so I want to do some more research before making a final judgment. Perhaps I'm missing something.
6. French Congo should be a predecessor to P.R. Congo instead of Gabon - ABSOLUTELY! The territories almost overlap exactly! I definitely want to make changes like this!!!
7. Tangier International Zone
"For Morocco, should the French Moroccan stamps overprinted Tangier, and even the British offices there, count on the same level as the Spanish Tanger stamps?"
This is a tough one! (And thanks for the clarification, Nigel). I can ignore it and move the Spanish Tangier stamp to BOB Offices Abroad, or embrace it and add the French and British issues as well. My first instinct is to include all 3 stamps. Comments?
8. Swaziland v eSwatini - I use the anglicized names anyway, so it doesn't matter.
9. Nigeria - Oil Rivers Protectorate - isn't that Niger Coast Protectorate #43?
10. Biafra!?!?! How did THAT disappear? I specifically remember buying a Biafra stamp - in fact I had to buy two as a set. I just checked my Africa surplus and they are BOTH there! I must have identified the need, bought the stamp(s), and promptly fell asleep at the wheel! Thanks for reminding me - YES - Biafra belongs as a precedent country of Nigeria!
11. St. Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha: If UK stamps are valid and widely used for postage on St. Helena, they should ALL be considered local stamps. If UK stamps are not valid for postage there, then the St. Helena stamps should be included. If St. Helena stamps are valid and used on Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, then the latter should be considered local stamps. However, if each of the 3 entities issues their own postage stamps which are used exclusively or nearly so on their respective islands for sending International mail, they should all be listed - just like the baliwicks. If that is not the case, they may need to be dismissed as local stamps, just like the Grenadines.
Login to Like
this post
AFRICA
Here is my first cut at an expanded Smithsonian "One For Every Country" Collection.
REMEMBER THE RULES:
1. No Offices Abroad, Local Stamps, or Occupation stamps. Those go in last section.
2. All dates are stamp issuing dates (although Smithsonian was quite inconsistent, I tried to clean that up).
3. This is MY example of an expansion, for your consideration and comment. You may decide to go a totally different route. That's OK, and please tell us why.
For some strange reason, Smithsonian put Equitorial Guinea in Western Africa instead of Central Africa. I fixed that:
EASTERN AFRICA
I really like the replica of the Swiss Canton stamp on Comoros 398!
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Hi Lars,
Lots more nice stamps!
I have a few comments:
Djibouti:
I would split Obock into two, Obock and Djibouti to reflect the names used on the stamps (and the change of the capital from Obock to Djibouti).
The dates for these and French Somali Coast are difficult given the names on the stamps.
I believe technically the colony was called Territoire d'Obock et Dépendances until 1896 and then Côte française des Somalis et Dépendances from 1896 to 1967.
Ethiopia:
I would split Ethiopia into Empire and Republic.
Kenya:
I would split British East Africa into British East Africa Company and British East Africa.
I would add one or possibly two more predecessors:
- Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika and Zanzibar (although this would just be for the KUT 1964 Olympics issue) and more importantly,
- Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania for the later issues of the East African Postal Administration.
Madagascar:
I would drop British Consular Mail as a predecessor or move it to the Foreign Post Offices, Locals etc. section.
I'm fond of these stamps but they are rare and very local in nature.
I much more often see the separate British Inland Post stamps and I would add these in the BOB section if you want to keep the British Consular Mail there.
You might want to consider splitting the Malagasy Republic into the autonomous and independent periods (rather like other French associated state or autonomous state periods)
Login to Like
this post
12:55:03pm
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Shouldn't Sudan be in North Africa, as it has been historically and philatelically linked to Egypt?
Likewise, shouldn't Rwanda and Burundi belong to the same region as Zaire, as former Belgian colonies?
As for British consular mail, I understand it was the main postal service for the precolonial monarchy in Madagascar.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Greaden, I think I can address your points, and Nigel, please allow me time to research yours and reply later.
You are likely correct about carving up Africa. That is the continent that I know the least about, and I simply corrected the obvious mistake of Eq. Guinea and a few precedent countries. The rest is in line with how Smithsonian divided the continent. I will learn more about what you have presented and decide if I want to make changes to my pages. Thanks for pointing those issues out for others that may consider a similar endeavor.
I debated dropping British consular mail for the reasons Nigel stated, but ultimately opted to keep it for the reasons you stated. This is another tricky one everyone will have to decide for themselves.
In the next batch for "EASTERN AFRICA" you can see more "Associated State" entries. These are also found in several Caribbean nations. That denotes the time of self rule before full independence.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Nigel,
I have had a chance to review your suggestions:
1. "Obock and Djibouti" - I believe that what I have is sufficient. The French Somali Coast stamp covers the move from Obock to Djibouti
2. "I would split Ethiopia into Empire and Republic" - I am so glad you pointed that out! I missed that entirely! But don't I need THREE stamps:
a) Empire
b) Socialist Republic (1974-1987)
c) Republic?
3. Kenya - "split British East Africa" - I disagree. I am tracking changes to governments, not the postal administrations. Also, the KUT issues you describe are from the East African Common Services Organization. Per Wikipedia: "These stamps were issued in parallel with stamps from each of the newly independent nations. The Common Services Organization continued to issue various commemoratives, at the rate of about 10-12 per year, until early in 1976." That's not a governmental change.
4. Madagascar - We've already discussed how controversial the British Consular Post is, but you also suggested: "splitting the Malagasy Republic into the autonomous and independent periods". That's another one that I totally missed. Malagasy was self-governing until June 26, 1960 when it became fully independent and sovereign, so yes, you are correct. Thanks!
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
The rest of Eastern Africa:
If you differentiate between Somali Democratic Republic and Somalia, as of the 2015 catalogue, only Scott numbers through 606 have been verified as authentic, so there are very few options for the Republic.
Even though Tanzania and Zanzibar combined briefly in the 1960's, and issued stamps with both country names, the stamps were ONLY valid in the country of issue so I included one from each country.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Middle Africa:
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Hi Lars,
I have a couple of follow-up comments on East Africa:
"2. "I would split Ethiopia into Empire and Republic" - I am so glad you pointed that out! I missed that entirely! But don't I need THREE stamps:
a) Empire
b) Socialist Republic (1974-1987)
c) Republic?"
Yes, I agree you could do this and it would fit in with the other transitions from communist states that we've seen already.
"3. Kenya - "split British East Africa" - I disagree. I am tracking changes to governments, not the postal administrations. "
I think we have to disagree on this one.
There was a distinct change in the form of government following the collapse of the British East Africa Company and the foundation of the British East Africa Protectorate."Also, the KUT issues you describe are from the East African Common Services Organization. Per Wikipedia: "These stamps were issued in parallel with stamps from each of the newly independent nations. The Common Services Organization continued to issue various commemoratives, at the rate of about 10-12 per year, until early in 1976." That's not a governmental change."
Regarding the later "KUT" stamps, I agree it's not a government change but it is a distinct change of name of an official stamp-issuing entity following the merger of Tanganyika and Zanzibar.
I can't think of a parallel case to these KUT issues.
Perhaps Thurn and Taxis has something in common, an entity that wasn't itself a state issuing stamps for use in several independent states.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Hi Lars,
Nice range of African stamps. I like the layouts for CAR-Ubangi, Cameroon and Tanganyika-Zanzibar.
Here are a few more random comments:
Chad:
The Chad section seems to be duplicated on the next page.
DR Congo:
I expected to see more predecessors:
- Autonomous State of the Congo
- Belgian Congo
- Katanga
- South Kasai
Congo:
I see you have French Equatorial Africa as a predecessor for Gabon which makes sense so I would suggest having an original Middle Congo stamp here rather than one with an FEA overprint.
I would suggest French Congo may be a better predecessor here than for Gabon as Gabon was added to the French Congo colony and then separated again but it's not a big deal.
Somalia:
I was surprised to learn that Scott uses the name Oltre Giuba. I'm used to seeing Jubaland in the catalogues.
I couldn't see what I think of as British Somaliland until I realised it was under Somaliland Protectorate which is the correct name but its example stamp is from the Italian UN Protectorate (like the one next to it).
South Sudan:
I really like your stamp with the shoebills. I've not seen that one before.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
"Chad:
The Chad section seems to be duplicated on the next page.
DR Congo:
I expected to see more predecessors:"
That is so embarrassing! Yup, one page that was supposed to be re-scanned didn't happen. I have reviewed all of the pages and this was the only one I missed as far as I can tell. That will also address half of your issues with DR Congo, and I will address the rest later, but I wanted to correct this page now while I research your other comments.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Northern Africa:
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Hi Lars,
It was good to see the Belgian Congo appear by magic!
It's quite something to see all the Morocco/Spanish West Africa stamps together in one place.
Libya:
I'm guessing we'll see Fezzan (and Ghadames) under Occupations in the BOB?
Tunisia:
You may wish to consider adding a stamp for the Autonomous State of 1955-56.
Botswana
I would put British Bechuanaland as a predecessor to South Africa rather than Botswana.
The Bechuanaland Protectorate eventually became independent as Botswana as shown here.
However, the colony of British Bechuanaland was merged into Cape Colony (Cape of Good Hope).
Login to Like
this post
04:51:19pm
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Does the Algerian State/Etat Algerien of 1962 count? I am referring to the French stamps overprinted EA; Scott 286-290.
For Morocco, should the French Moroccan stamps overprinted Tangier, and even the British offices there, count on the same level as the Spanish Tanger stamps?
(edited to correct Scott number)
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Nigel:
Regarding British East Africa:
"I think we have to disagree on this one. There was a distinct change in the form of government following the collapse of the British East Africa Company and the foundation of the British East Africa Protectorate."
I want to explain my position not to try to convince you otherwise, but to help those struggling with the same dilemma see the opposing arguments. My position is that either BEAC was a seamless predecessor to BEAP, and any stamp 1890-1903 will do for BEA, or BEAC was a private enterprise that belongs in BOB and the dates should be 1895-1903 for BEA. That's why I have a stamp from BEAP instead of BEAC. Either way, I'm covered!
"DR Congo:
I expected to see more predecessors:
- Autonomous State of the Congo
- Belgian Congo
- Katanga
- South Kasai"
Katanga - from Scott Volume 4 - "Established nations did not recognize Katanga as an independent state". (I tried to put Katanga in brackets in that quote, but HTML hates that).
South Kasai - Scott Volume 6 - Scott doesn't recognize ANY stamps from here!
"I see you have French Equatorial Africa as a predecessor for Gabon which makes sense so I would suggest having an original Middle Congo stamp here rather than one with an FEA overprint."
The stamp I have meets the date criteria, but I see your point. I will make that an upgrade priority.
"Somalia:
I couldn't see what I think of as British Somaliland until I realised it was under Somaliland Protectorate which is the correct name but its example stamp is from the Italian UN Protectorate (like the one next to it)."
Yikes! I swear I got one of those stamps. I will go through my "extras" this weekend to see if I misplaced it, but you are 100% correct! Thanks for catching that!!!
"Libya:
I'm guessing we'll see Fezzan (and Ghadames) under Occupations in the BOB? "
I don't think they are there. Remember, these are only SELECTED occupations, etc. Intended to be a sampling only. If you think these rise to the level of requiring inclusion, I'm all ears!
"Tunisia:
You may wish to consider adding a stamp for the Autonomous State of 1955-56."
I can't find anything to support that and even if I could, I would just back up the date of the transitional state by 1 year. I think Colony / Autonomy / Republic works well. I don't want to drill down deeper unless there is some overwhelming reason to do so.
"Botswana
I would put British Bechuanaland as a predecessor to South Africa rather than Botswana."
Holy cow!!! I totally missed that! Of course, Stellaland was on the northern edge of British Bechuanaland, at that's considered a precedent country to South Africa. Thank you for pointing out that obvious mistake (that is inherited from the Smithsonian pages - I didn't manufacture that one).
Greaden:
"Does the Algerian State/Etat Algerien of 1962 count? I am referring to the French stamps overprinted EA; Scott 286-290. "
I would consider those local stamps
"For Morocco, should the French Moroccan stamps overprinted Tangier, and even the British offices there, count on the same level as the Spanish Tanger stamps?"
I'm not sure what you are referring to specifically, perhaps Nigel can help.
Lars
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Hi Greaden,
Yes, that's a good point about the post offices in Tangier.
The Tangier International Zone lay outside the French and Spanish protectorates and was governed by an international commission.
The British, French and Spanish issues for Tangier were all effectively for foreign post offices.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Next up:
SOUTHERN AFRICA:
I hope you approve of my treatment of South Africa. Like Germany, it just needs TWO stamps!
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Hi Lars,
You may wish to consider three more potential predecessors of Benin:
- Benin Protectorate, 1892 - 1894
- Dahomey and Dependencies or simply Dahomey, 1899 - 1942
- Autonomous Republic of Dahomey, 1960, prior to independence.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
11:13:18am
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Ditto on Benin. I would go further and separate Dahomey as a French West African colony from pre-1904 Dahomey and Dependencies, which was a protectorate consisting of several indigenous monarchies.
Does Ascension belong to West Africa? I understand that the South Atlantic islands of Ascension, St. Helena, and Tristan de Cunha have been historically tied more to South Africa in terms of trade, communication, and settlement.
Swaziland: it is now going by the name eSwatini, though I have yet to see a stamp with that name.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
You weren't supposed to start on Western Africa yet! Oh well, here's the rest of it. The next page may help a bit:
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
Hi Lars,
"You weren't supposed to start on Western Africa yet! Oh well, here's the rest of it. The next page may help a bit:"
Oops, yes indeed.
I have just a few comments this time.
Nigeria:
I suggest you add one more predecessor, the Oil Rivers Protectorate.
Another possibility would be the secessionist Biafra.
St Helena:
St Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha have been administered as a single territory although they have their own stamps.
Since 2009 the territory has been called Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha and before then Saint Helena and Dependencies.
However, I have no problem with keeping three separate entries.
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Africa)
I plan to do the same for Africa as I did for Europe:
FIRST - here are previously discussed and resolved issues:
1. Obock and Djibouti - I decided stay with what I have.
2. Ethiopia - split:
a) Empire
b) Socialist Republic (1974-1987)
c) Republic
3. Malagasy Republic - split:
a) Self-governing until June 26, 1960
b) Fully independent and sovereign
4. DR Congo - Katanga and South Kasai were not generally recognized
5. Middle Congo - replace stamp with one without FEA overprint
6. Somaliland Protectorate has wrong stamp - fix
7. Libya - Fezzan (and Ghadames) are candidates for inclusion in Occupations BOB
8. Tunisia - Autonomous State 1955-56 - I was unable to find anything to support that
9. Botswana - move British Bechuanaland as predecessor to South Africa instead of Botswana
10. Algerian State/Etat Algerian of 1962 considered local stamps
SECOND - Here are some previously outstanding issues:
1. "Shouldn't Sudan be in North Africa?" - After researching I must agree. What is less certain is whether South Sudan is included as well. Comments?
2. Ascension, St. Helena and Tristan da Cunha - should they be in Western Africa or Southern Africa? - Smithsonian has Western Africa. Greaden suggests Southern Africa. Comments?
3. As far as moving Rwanda and Burundi from Eastern Africa to Central Africa, I couldn't find many maps that support that.
4. Madagascar - British Consular Mail - I'm still waffling on that one, but now leaning away. (I was initially VERY hesitant to demote anything from the Smithsonian pages, but the more obvious mistakes all of you have pointed out have made me less reluctant to depart from their initial offering).
5. Kenya - split British East Africa into BEA Company and BEA. Nigel, you NEVER pushed back hard on ANYTHING until this one, so I want to do some more research before making a final judgment. Perhaps I'm missing something.
6. French Congo should be a predecessor to P.R. Congo instead of Gabon - ABSOLUTELY! The territories almost overlap exactly! I definitely want to make changes like this!!!
7. Tangier International Zone
"For Morocco, should the French Moroccan stamps overprinted Tangier, and even the British offices there, count on the same level as the Spanish Tanger stamps?"
This is a tough one! (And thanks for the clarification, Nigel). I can ignore it and move the Spanish Tangier stamp to BOB Offices Abroad, or embrace it and add the French and British issues as well. My first instinct is to include all 3 stamps. Comments?
8. Swaziland v eSwatini - I use the anglicized names anyway, so it doesn't matter.
9. Nigeria - Oil Rivers Protectorate - isn't that Niger Coast Protectorate #43?
10. Biafra!?!?! How did THAT disappear? I specifically remember buying a Biafra stamp - in fact I had to buy two as a set. I just checked my Africa surplus and they are BOTH there! I must have identified the need, bought the stamp(s), and promptly fell asleep at the wheel! Thanks for reminding me - YES - Biafra belongs as a precedent country of Nigeria!
11. St. Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha: If UK stamps are valid and widely used for postage on St. Helena, they should ALL be considered local stamps. If UK stamps are not valid for postage there, then the St. Helena stamps should be included. If St. Helena stamps are valid and used on Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, then the latter should be considered local stamps. However, if each of the 3 entities issues their own postage stamps which are used exclusively or nearly so on their respective islands for sending International mail, they should all be listed - just like the baliwicks. If that is not the case, they may need to be dismissed as local stamps, just like the Grenadines.
Login to Like
this post