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What we collect!
What we collect!


Canada/Other : DANGEROUS FORGERIES

 

Author
Postings
Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

19 Aug 2019
01:14:01pm
I was poking around in the back of my Unitrade Canadian Specialized and came across a very expensive series of stamps called the "Columbia Scadta Consular Overprints", coded CLCA1 to CACL11 issued in 1923 to speed up mail to Columbia. I'm going to ignore them because of the price but I couldn't help but notice the warning "Dangerous forgeries exist". The stamps range from $125 to $1000 so some are sort of affordable, but the word dangerous is a bit strange! Are they covered with a lethal poison??? Has anyone ever seen this terminology used before? Does anyone out there have any of them and how would I recognize one of these dangerous forgeries?
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michael78651
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19 Aug 2019
01:58:39pm
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

The term "Dangerous" is used to mean that the forgeries are nearly impossible to tell from the genuine stamps.

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SForgCa
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19 Aug 2019
03:33:28pm
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

Many of the Sperati collectible forgeries are in the class of "dangerous"
He generally minutely copied genuine stamps from a specific plate position of importance.
He then added some very minor artifacts so he would recognize them - hence how we can tell them apart.
A lot of them were certified and entered famous collections for large sums.
If you're going to be a crook, THINK BIG

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"https://stampforgeries.blogspot.com/"
larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

21 Aug 2019
12:47:36am
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

I have to agree with Harvey. Dangerous is not a good word choice. Perhaps "Convincing" or the penultimate "Undetectable".

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

www.larsdog.com/stamps
SForgCa
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21 Aug 2019
08:20:32am
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

All stamp forgeries are detectable with the right knowledge.

The term dangerous in reference to stamps is quite old and related to having such excellent forgeries "dangerous" to the real stamp's value

The massive amounts of forgeries (not official reprints) made in places by the printers or dealers who obtained the original dies clearly affected the value of the original stamps.

In all cases something is different, ink, paper, missing plate faults and someone with the right tools available today can tell the difference. Otherwise, getting stamps certified is a waste of time.

NOTE that I used the term "forgeries" where the based stamp is altered, Fakes can be much more troublesome especially with certain overprints on genuine issues or remainders.

The term is somewhat out of date for stamps now and the current more appropriate reference to dangerous forgeries are those that might harm you such as fake electrical products.

Convincing as noted might be a good alternative?

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"https://stampforgeries.blogspot.com/"
phos45
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21 Aug 2019
09:14:25am
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

Sir Stanley Gibbons was convicted in London of forging OVPTS on GB issues ...

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machinstudygroup.blogspot.ca
larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

21 Aug 2019
11:54:53pm
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

"All stamp forgeries are detectable with the right knowledge."



Really? All? I'm not claiming that there are forgeries so well done that nobody can detect them, but I don't think you are in a better position to claim that it is not possible.

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

www.larsdog.com/stamps
Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

22 Aug 2019
06:21:36pm
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

I agree that maybe all forgeries are detectable, but probably not by the average collector. If you have a suspected forgery you can send it away for experts to check out, but some of the stuff is so good that I bet even they have problems. For example, early Poland overprints - several of you have sent me links to articles and after I read them I'm just as confused as when I started. My gut tells me that even the originals were inconsistently done, so I'll continue to look at them as fillers with mental question marks attached. The hobby is still an incredible thing to me and I've enjoyed it for almost 50 years - I'm not going to get frustrated by a few minor problems!

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant

23 Aug 2019
02:28:53pm
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

Interesting book review in the August 2019 American Philatelist Magazine: Forgeries of Common Stamps After WW1 eastern Front, Balkans, Caucasus Version 2, by P. Clark Souers.
A Kinddle copy can be had for $8.88

rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

23 Aug 2019
02:44:06pm
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

"but some of the stuff is so good that I bet even they have problems"


Exactly. I got a cert for something I thought was legit, but it came back altered. Sent it to a different agency: Genuine.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

I'm not going to let that deter me, but I am going to try to be realistic.

Lars

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1 Member
likes this post.
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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

www.larsdog.com/stamps
Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

23 Aug 2019
03:15:45pm
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

I'm just curious about one thing - what does an authentication cost? I assume it is time consuming since I remember my wife and I taking hours over certain early US stamps. Of course real experts can probably do it much quicker, and probably better than us mere mortals! I also wonder how often they make mistakes. It's probably easier to err on the cautious side.

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SForgCa
Members Picture


23 Aug 2019
06:39:57pm
re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

PSE certification - Maybe for
Baseball cards
Jumbo stamps
Coins
Currency
Encapsulating


Stamp Experts - NOT LIKELY

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"https://stampforgeries.blogspot.com/"
        

 

Author/Postings
Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

19 Aug 2019
01:14:01pm

I was poking around in the back of my Unitrade Canadian Specialized and came across a very expensive series of stamps called the "Columbia Scadta Consular Overprints", coded CLCA1 to CACL11 issued in 1923 to speed up mail to Columbia. I'm going to ignore them because of the price but I couldn't help but notice the warning "Dangerous forgeries exist". The stamps range from $125 to $1000 so some are sort of affordable, but the word dangerous is a bit strange! Are they covered with a lethal poison??? Has anyone ever seen this terminology used before? Does anyone out there have any of them and how would I recognize one of these dangerous forgeries?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
michael78651

19 Aug 2019
01:58:39pm

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

The term "Dangerous" is used to mean that the forgeries are nearly impossible to tell from the genuine stamps.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
SForgCa

19 Aug 2019
03:33:28pm

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

Many of the Sperati collectible forgeries are in the class of "dangerous"
He generally minutely copied genuine stamps from a specific plate position of importance.
He then added some very minor artifacts so he would recognize them - hence how we can tell them apart.
A lot of them were certified and entered famous collections for large sums.
If you're going to be a crook, THINK BIG

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"https://stampforgeries.blogspot.com/"
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
21 Aug 2019
12:47:36am

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

I have to agree with Harvey. Dangerous is not a good word choice. Perhaps "Convincing" or the penultimate "Undetectable".

Lars

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

www.larsdog.com/stam ...
Members Picture
SForgCa

21 Aug 2019
08:20:32am

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

All stamp forgeries are detectable with the right knowledge.

The term dangerous in reference to stamps is quite old and related to having such excellent forgeries "dangerous" to the real stamp's value

The massive amounts of forgeries (not official reprints) made in places by the printers or dealers who obtained the original dies clearly affected the value of the original stamps.

In all cases something is different, ink, paper, missing plate faults and someone with the right tools available today can tell the difference. Otherwise, getting stamps certified is a waste of time.

NOTE that I used the term "forgeries" where the based stamp is altered, Fakes can be much more troublesome especially with certain overprints on genuine issues or remainders.

The term is somewhat out of date for stamps now and the current more appropriate reference to dangerous forgeries are those that might harm you such as fake electrical products.

Convincing as noted might be a good alternative?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"https://stampforgeries.blogspot.com/"
Members Picture
phos45

21 Aug 2019
09:14:25am

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

Sir Stanley Gibbons was convicted in London of forging OVPTS on GB issues ...

Like
Login to Like
this post

machinstudygroup.blo ...
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
21 Aug 2019
11:54:53pm

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

"All stamp forgeries are detectable with the right knowledge."



Really? All? I'm not claiming that there are forgeries so well done that nobody can detect them, but I don't think you are in a better position to claim that it is not possible.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

www.larsdog.com/stam ...
Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

22 Aug 2019
06:21:36pm

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

I agree that maybe all forgeries are detectable, but probably not by the average collector. If you have a suspected forgery you can send it away for experts to check out, but some of the stuff is so good that I bet even they have problems. For example, early Poland overprints - several of you have sent me links to articles and after I read them I'm just as confused as when I started. My gut tells me that even the originals were inconsistently done, so I'll continue to look at them as fillers with mental question marks attached. The hobby is still an incredible thing to me and I've enjoyed it for almost 50 years - I'm not going to get frustrated by a few minor problems!

Like
Login to Like
this post

Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
23 Aug 2019
02:28:53pm

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

Interesting book review in the August 2019 American Philatelist Magazine: Forgeries of Common Stamps After WW1 eastern Front, Balkans, Caucasus Version 2, by P. Clark Souers.
A Kinddle copy can be had for $8.88

rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
23 Aug 2019
02:44:06pm

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

"but some of the stuff is so good that I bet even they have problems"


Exactly. I got a cert for something I thought was legit, but it came back altered. Sent it to a different agency: Genuine.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

I'm not going to let that deter me, but I am going to try to be realistic.

Lars

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

www.larsdog.com/stam ...
Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

23 Aug 2019
03:15:45pm

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

I'm just curious about one thing - what does an authentication cost? I assume it is time consuming since I remember my wife and I taking hours over certain early US stamps. Of course real experts can probably do it much quicker, and probably better than us mere mortals! I also wonder how often they make mistakes. It's probably easier to err on the cautious side.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
SForgCa

23 Aug 2019
06:39:57pm

re: DANGEROUS FORGERIES

PSE certification - Maybe for
Baseball cards
Jumbo stamps
Coins
Currency
Encapsulating


Stamp Experts - NOT LIKELY

Like
Login to Like
this post

"https://stampforgeries.blogspot.com/"
        

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