Hi Tom,
It could be sg319 - 2/6 violet-blue and grey-brown, p15 Die III.
This is part of a group of Admirals issued in 1923 in London but never actually sent out to Rhodesia, so are only catalogued as mint.
Clive
Thanks, Clive. I looked at that and sg319 works except for the color of the vignette. The violet-blue color swatch in the SG Coluor Key doesn't look anything like my very dark blue/bluish color on my stamp. It's not close. I don't think my stamp's colors have been affected by environmental or other issues, but one never knows for certain.
I didn't know those later Admirals had never been sent to Rhodesia.
Tom
I haven't found a stamp I've scanned with the violet-blue color, but here's a SG 275 deep blue and blue-green (shades) for comparison. The 2/6 stamp color is nowhere near the deep blue color of my SG 275 or the violet-blue (SG 319) in my SG Colour Key. If it weren't for this problem with the color, it would be easy to call my 2/6 a SG 319. If the SG catalog were to call SG 319 DEEP violet blue, then everything would make sense, but the SG violet blue color swatch is a very long distance from the SG deep violet blue color swatch. There is definitely no mistaking the two.
When I am trying to evaluate an admiral colour I often refer to Deverell/Macgregor's excellent site they often show a few examples of each stamp - but, they have not one SG 319.
They do however illustrate a few examples of SG 303, which is the 2/6 violet-blue and grey-brown p14. The on-screen colours look close to yours, especially their stock code MA503 item.
Clive
Thanks for that link, Clive! It is too bad there are no SG 319 examples. The MA503 example is very close to my JPG image. It is probably the closest match to my JPG image. However, my JPG color isn't as deep as the actual color of my stamp.
I suppose my situation with this stamp is similar to the examples for SG 252 at that web site. The listed color in the catalogue for SG 252 is blackish-purple. Most of the posted examples are listed as blackish-purple, but two examples are described as "deep blackish-purple."
Given all of that information, I suppose I would describe my stamp as SG 319 deep violet-blue.
Thanks for your help, Clive!
One thing I have noticed about sorting stamps by color is that you need a few copies to really make a decision. I put all of my copies of the same values together on both white and then black paper and look to see if there are color differences or not.
The other thing I have noticed is that where there are more than a couple of printings the catalogs ignore subtle differences that you might notice while sorting them. They list the first printing and then if there is a significantly different later printing they list that one. So you can see some variation in what would be considered the same stamp - from a catalog view. I am in the process of identifying the King George VI British Honduras set by printing right now. There are as many as 10 printings of some values from 1938 until 1953, but only one or maybe two catalog entries. There are subtle differences between the stamps from various years production, but not enough to merit a catalog entry.
Finally, the Gibbons color key is not truly accurate. You should be able to put a stamp under it and look thru the hole and the color should match up. I have never truly been able to exactly match anything that way. What I find it really useful for is understanding the makeup of a color in comparison to other colors. So Yellow-Green is lighter than Green for example.
Ultimately you have to make a best guess based on the information available and change it later if something comes along to change your opinion. It is part of the fun of the hobby, but it can also be kind of frustrating if you expect perfection.
kgvistamps said :
"One thing I have noticed about sorting stamps by color is that you need a few copies to really make a decision. I put all of my copies of the same values together on both white and then black paper and look to see if there are color differences or not."
I realize it is not always feasible to obtain a stock of stamps to compare the colors. As a part time dealer I have some customers who request a stock of British Colony King George VI stamps to sort. I send them my inventory on approval and they send back what they don't want to keep. So if you have a good relationship with a dealer that might be worth considering.
Obviously there are probably only a few dealers with any real inventory of Rhodesia Admirals, so that might not be feasible in this specific case.
Regarding color matching, Larry Goldberg and I have tried various methods of computer matching and had really mixed results. If you scan a stamp at high resolution and use Photoshop or one of the other color applications you can select an area and get a color value. My application uses RGB which is a system that expresses colors based on the amount of Red, Green and Blue components. There are other options that are even more precise. Using RGB, you get a value that is six digits in length using the base 16 (0-9 and A-F - a combination of 16 possible digits) which measures the amount of Red, Green and Blue in a color. So white is FFFFFF and black is 000000. Green is 00FF00, blue is 0000FF, red is FF0000. Color shades are measured in various combinations of these components depending on the mix. If you have one of these applications you can input any valid value and it will show you the color.
Anyway, by using the eyedropper tool, I can select a small portion of the stamp and measure the color. Sounds pretty good, right? However if I go about an inch over and measure that, the color mix output changes a little. So even with a measurement tool it is hard to get it exactly right. You can select an area and have it come up with an approximate color value, so that is probably the right way to do it.
Ultimately, it is a subjective task that is fraught with errors, so you have to just do the best you can with whatever you have to work with. Expect to be wrong and revise your opinion as you see other stamps that make you change your mind about the colors. Remember it is a hobby, so it is okay to just have fun with it.
kgvistamps wrote:
"Remember it is a hobby, so it is okay to just have fun with it."
I am trying to determine the Stanley Gibbons catalog number for this 2s6d Rhodesia admiral stamp. The vignette color is nearly black (more so than my scan suggests) and matches the SG Colour Key indigo color swatch or possibly the deep violet blue swatch.
This copy is perforated 15.
The admiral's left ear is mostly shaded and has an outline. The cap has a solid line at the top. If I am interpreting the broken "anchor shank" characteristic correctly, this stamp has a broken "anchor shank." Those characteristics would make this Die III.
My 2005 Stanley Gibbons Commonwealth catalog has me confused. The Die III listings include only one perf 15 stamp and that is the 2d. All other Die III listings are perf 14. The Die II listings for the indigo 2s6d stamp include both perf 14 and perf 15, but my stamp doesn't match the Die II description as far as I can tell.
Does anyone here have experience identifying the admiral stamps? Maybe a newer SG catalog has new information that would help?
Looking forward to your comments and suggestions. Thanks!
Tom
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
Hi Tom,
It could be sg319 - 2/6 violet-blue and grey-brown, p15 Die III.
This is part of a group of Admirals issued in 1923 in London but never actually sent out to Rhodesia, so are only catalogued as mint.
Clive
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
Thanks, Clive. I looked at that and sg319 works except for the color of the vignette. The violet-blue color swatch in the SG Coluor Key doesn't look anything like my very dark blue/bluish color on my stamp. It's not close. I don't think my stamp's colors have been affected by environmental or other issues, but one never knows for certain.
I didn't know those later Admirals had never been sent to Rhodesia.
Tom
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
I haven't found a stamp I've scanned with the violet-blue color, but here's a SG 275 deep blue and blue-green (shades) for comparison. The 2/6 stamp color is nowhere near the deep blue color of my SG 275 or the violet-blue (SG 319) in my SG Colour Key. If it weren't for this problem with the color, it would be easy to call my 2/6 a SG 319. If the SG catalog were to call SG 319 DEEP violet blue, then everything would make sense, but the SG violet blue color swatch is a very long distance from the SG deep violet blue color swatch. There is definitely no mistaking the two.
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
When I am trying to evaluate an admiral colour I often refer to Deverell/Macgregor's excellent site they often show a few examples of each stamp - but, they have not one SG 319.
They do however illustrate a few examples of SG 303, which is the 2/6 violet-blue and grey-brown p14. The on-screen colours look close to yours, especially their stock code MA503 item.
Clive
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
Thanks for that link, Clive! It is too bad there are no SG 319 examples. The MA503 example is very close to my JPG image. It is probably the closest match to my JPG image. However, my JPG color isn't as deep as the actual color of my stamp.
I suppose my situation with this stamp is similar to the examples for SG 252 at that web site. The listed color in the catalogue for SG 252 is blackish-purple. Most of the posted examples are listed as blackish-purple, but two examples are described as "deep blackish-purple."
Given all of that information, I suppose I would describe my stamp as SG 319 deep violet-blue.
Thanks for your help, Clive!
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
One thing I have noticed about sorting stamps by color is that you need a few copies to really make a decision. I put all of my copies of the same values together on both white and then black paper and look to see if there are color differences or not.
The other thing I have noticed is that where there are more than a couple of printings the catalogs ignore subtle differences that you might notice while sorting them. They list the first printing and then if there is a significantly different later printing they list that one. So you can see some variation in what would be considered the same stamp - from a catalog view. I am in the process of identifying the King George VI British Honduras set by printing right now. There are as many as 10 printings of some values from 1938 until 1953, but only one or maybe two catalog entries. There are subtle differences between the stamps from various years production, but not enough to merit a catalog entry.
Finally, the Gibbons color key is not truly accurate. You should be able to put a stamp under it and look thru the hole and the color should match up. I have never truly been able to exactly match anything that way. What I find it really useful for is understanding the makeup of a color in comparison to other colors. So Yellow-Green is lighter than Green for example.
Ultimately you have to make a best guess based on the information available and change it later if something comes along to change your opinion. It is part of the fun of the hobby, but it can also be kind of frustrating if you expect perfection.
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
kgvistamps said :
"One thing I have noticed about sorting stamps by color is that you need a few copies to really make a decision. I put all of my copies of the same values together on both white and then black paper and look to see if there are color differences or not."
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
I realize it is not always feasible to obtain a stock of stamps to compare the colors. As a part time dealer I have some customers who request a stock of British Colony King George VI stamps to sort. I send them my inventory on approval and they send back what they don't want to keep. So if you have a good relationship with a dealer that might be worth considering.
Obviously there are probably only a few dealers with any real inventory of Rhodesia Admirals, so that might not be feasible in this specific case.
Regarding color matching, Larry Goldberg and I have tried various methods of computer matching and had really mixed results. If you scan a stamp at high resolution and use Photoshop or one of the other color applications you can select an area and get a color value. My application uses RGB which is a system that expresses colors based on the amount of Red, Green and Blue components. There are other options that are even more precise. Using RGB, you get a value that is six digits in length using the base 16 (0-9 and A-F - a combination of 16 possible digits) which measures the amount of Red, Green and Blue in a color. So white is FFFFFF and black is 000000. Green is 00FF00, blue is 0000FF, red is FF0000. Color shades are measured in various combinations of these components depending on the mix. If you have one of these applications you can input any valid value and it will show you the color.
Anyway, by using the eyedropper tool, I can select a small portion of the stamp and measure the color. Sounds pretty good, right? However if I go about an inch over and measure that, the color mix output changes a little. So even with a measurement tool it is hard to get it exactly right. You can select an area and have it come up with an approximate color value, so that is probably the right way to do it.
Ultimately, it is a subjective task that is fraught with errors, so you have to just do the best you can with whatever you have to work with. Expect to be wrong and revise your opinion as you see other stamps that make you change your mind about the colors. Remember it is a hobby, so it is okay to just have fun with it.
re: Rhodesia Admiral identification
kgvistamps wrote:
"Remember it is a hobby, so it is okay to just have fun with it."