What we collect!

 

Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps



What we collect!
What we collect!


Europe/Germany : Missing red ink?

 

Author
Postings
StampCollector
Members Picture


15 Feb 2020
09:20:43pm
Anyone familiar with this German stamp?
Any info?

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/~stampcollector1
musicman
Members Picture


APS #213005

15 Feb 2020
09:30:01pm
re: Missing red ink?

It looks as if the red dye may have been washed away in a warm stamp-soaking bath.

Its my understanding that red ink is more susceptible to that than most other colors.

This is just an opinion.

Like
Login to Like
this post
roy
Members Picture


BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 300 categories

15 Feb 2020
09:52:38pm
re: Missing red ink?

Michel Specialized Germany makes no mention of a missing colour on this stamp.

Roy

Like
Login to Like
this post

"BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50- 10,000+ new covers coming Tuesday June 1"

www.Buckacover.com
michael78651
Members Picture


15 Feb 2020
10:28:15pm
re: Missing red ink?

I think it's faded. See the man's coat and shoes, and the boy's sack. It appears that the red has faded from them along with the red printing.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
ikeyPikey
Members Picture


15 Feb 2020
10:55:18pm
re: Missing red ink?

'
If that's fading, it is remarkably even & complete.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
michael78651
Members Picture


15 Feb 2020
11:06:17pm
re: Missing red ink?

If it weren't for the color changing on the items I mentioned, I would be inclined to say it was possibly a color missing error, or as Randy said, a chemical washing to get rid of the red. But it seems that the brown has the red missing (faded) to change the color. If it truly is fading, I agree that it is dramatic.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
nobozo

16 Feb 2020
12:58:53am
re: Missing red ink?

I have a similar issue with a Swiss stamp.

Take a look at this:

Image Not Found

Notice the total lack of yellow on the stamp on the right. It's completely gone everywhere.

I don't know what to think about this.

Like
Login to Like
this post
51Studebaker
Members Picture


Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

16 Feb 2020
04:10:57am
re: Missing red ink?

Having a single, used stamp with different colors demands that the assumption is that it is a color changeling. This is because;
- multiple examples of a stamp is typically required to prove a sheet of stamps exists
- used stamps have, by definition, been through a lot and there is no provenance. The stamp could have sat on a dashboard of a car, been mounted in a frame next to a window, or been soaked too long.
- also note that for stamps which are older than a few years the probability of there being a previously unknown error is highly unlikely. The older the stamp, the lower the probability that an error stamp has remained undiscovered.

Inks are like clothing dye, they are not color fast. If you purchased two shirt and left one untouched in your closet while wearing the other one and laundering it a few hundred times, what is the likelihood of the colors being the same?

And note that some ink colors are far more fugitive than others (like red). Here is a link about stamp color changelings
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/ArticleChangelings.html
Note that stamp in the top left hand of the linked page above, it is an experiment done by John Becker. (Click on it to see larger image) He covered half a stamp and simply left it sitting in a southern facing window for a month or two.
Don



Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org
HockeyNut
Members Picture


16 Feb 2020
05:07:49am
re: Missing red ink?

Well I agree with 51Studebaker (Wow what a car!!). The stamp on the right has pale colors all over. The color of the Jacket and the Sack are not what it had to be.
Look at the two stamps that i scanned..

Image Not Found

And the only plate flaws i know are these :

Image Not Found

And what musicman says is the most common reason. They soaked the stamp in too hot water.

Like
Login to Like
this post
musicman
Members Picture


APS #213005

16 Feb 2020
08:15:45am
re: Missing red ink?

Many types of ink - especially red - are known to be fugitive inks.

As Hockeynut stated, hot water is often the culprit.

Like
Login to Like
this post
StampCollector
Members Picture


16 Feb 2020
10:50:06am
re: Missing red ink?

I recheck the stamp closely this time, I used a magnifying glass that makes the pores on your finger tips look like craters and I believe that there was never red color on the spot, most of the time you can see traces that another color was there or if it was remove by someone using some kind of chemical product, my hat is off to whoever did it, it is a perfect job.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/~stampcollector1
nobozo

16 Feb 2020
11:21:21am
re: Missing red ink?

I did the same with my Swiss stamp, and I see absolutely no trace of yellow. From the link above, it looks like changlings are more changes in color, not completely missing color.

On the other hand, I have no explanation why the German and my Swiss stamp are missing a color. In my case, there were probably millions printed, so if, say one sheet has a missing color, the chances that somebody would notice are small. Also, my stamp is from 1998, so I would have expected ink technology to be pretty good.

Anyway, it's a puzzlement.

Like
Login to Like
this post
jmh67
Members Picture


16 Feb 2020
11:50:45am
re: Missing red ink?

Some of the organic pigments that came into use after WW II can be completely destroyed in ultraviolet light - prolonged exposure to sunlight is enough, even behind glass. I've seen it on a stamp which was used to frank a postcard that somebody had then taped to the office window, stamp facing outward, and also on some stamps at the bottom of a shop window in Berlin where the sunshade did not reach (cheap stuff that nobody wanted to buy anyway and stayed there for months and years). Reds and yellows are notorious for that. Thinking of it, these pigments look that way because they absorb the other colors, and these are the higher energetic parts of the visible light ...

Also, the German and Swiss stamps in question are AFAIK lithographed (offset printed), so there will be no mechanical traces on the paper (as would be left by typography or recess printing)

-jmh

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
StampCollector

15 Feb 2020
09:20:43pm

Anyone familiar with this German stamp?
Any info?

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/~st ...
Members Picture
musicman

APS #213005
15 Feb 2020
09:30:01pm

re: Missing red ink?

It looks as if the red dye may have been washed away in a warm stamp-soaking bath.

Its my understanding that red ink is more susceptible to that than most other colors.

This is just an opinion.

Like
Login to Like
this post

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 300 categories
15 Feb 2020
09:52:38pm

re: Missing red ink?

Michel Specialized Germany makes no mention of a missing colour on this stamp.

Roy

Like
Login to Like
this post

"BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50- 10,000+ new covers coming Tuesday June 1"

www.Buckacover.com
Members Picture
michael78651

15 Feb 2020
10:28:15pm

re: Missing red ink?

I think it's faded. See the man's coat and shoes, and the boy's sack. It appears that the red has faded from them along with the red printing.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
ikeyPikey

15 Feb 2020
10:55:18pm

re: Missing red ink?

'
If that's fading, it is remarkably even & complete.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
Members Picture
michael78651

15 Feb 2020
11:06:17pm

re: Missing red ink?

If it weren't for the color changing on the items I mentioned, I would be inclined to say it was possibly a color missing error, or as Randy said, a chemical washing to get rid of the red. But it seems that the brown has the red missing (faded) to change the color. If it truly is fading, I agree that it is dramatic.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
nobozo

16 Feb 2020
12:58:53am

re: Missing red ink?

I have a similar issue with a Swiss stamp.

Take a look at this:

Image Not Found

Notice the total lack of yellow on the stamp on the right. It's completely gone everywhere.

I don't know what to think about this.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
16 Feb 2020
04:10:57am

re: Missing red ink?

Having a single, used stamp with different colors demands that the assumption is that it is a color changeling. This is because;
- multiple examples of a stamp is typically required to prove a sheet of stamps exists
- used stamps have, by definition, been through a lot and there is no provenance. The stamp could have sat on a dashboard of a car, been mounted in a frame next to a window, or been soaked too long.
- also note that for stamps which are older than a few years the probability of there being a previously unknown error is highly unlikely. The older the stamp, the lower the probability that an error stamp has remained undiscovered.

Inks are like clothing dye, they are not color fast. If you purchased two shirt and left one untouched in your closet while wearing the other one and laundering it a few hundred times, what is the likelihood of the colors being the same?

And note that some ink colors are far more fugitive than others (like red). Here is a link about stamp color changelings
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/ArticleChangelings.html
Note that stamp in the top left hand of the linked page above, it is an experiment done by John Becker. (Click on it to see larger image) He covered half a stamp and simply left it sitting in a southern facing window for a month or two.
Don



Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org
Members Picture
HockeyNut

16 Feb 2020
05:07:49am

re: Missing red ink?

Well I agree with 51Studebaker (Wow what a car!!). The stamp on the right has pale colors all over. The color of the Jacket and the Sack are not what it had to be.
Look at the two stamps that i scanned..

Image Not Found

And the only plate flaws i know are these :

Image Not Found

And what musicman says is the most common reason. They soaked the stamp in too hot water.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
musicman

APS #213005
16 Feb 2020
08:15:45am

re: Missing red ink?

Many types of ink - especially red - are known to be fugitive inks.

As Hockeynut stated, hot water is often the culprit.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
StampCollector

16 Feb 2020
10:50:06am

re: Missing red ink?

I recheck the stamp closely this time, I used a magnifying glass that makes the pores on your finger tips look like craters and I believe that there was never red color on the spot, most of the time you can see traces that another color was there or if it was remove by someone using some kind of chemical product, my hat is off to whoever did it, it is a perfect job.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.webstore.com/~st ...
nobozo

16 Feb 2020
11:21:21am

re: Missing red ink?

I did the same with my Swiss stamp, and I see absolutely no trace of yellow. From the link above, it looks like changlings are more changes in color, not completely missing color.

On the other hand, I have no explanation why the German and my Swiss stamp are missing a color. In my case, there were probably millions printed, so if, say one sheet has a missing color, the chances that somebody would notice are small. Also, my stamp is from 1998, so I would have expected ink technology to be pretty good.

Anyway, it's a puzzlement.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
jmh67

16 Feb 2020
11:50:45am

re: Missing red ink?

Some of the organic pigments that came into use after WW II can be completely destroyed in ultraviolet light - prolonged exposure to sunlight is enough, even behind glass. I've seen it on a stamp which was used to frank a postcard that somebody had then taped to the office window, stamp facing outward, and also on some stamps at the bottom of a shop window in Berlin where the sunshade did not reach (cheap stuff that nobody wanted to buy anyway and stayed there for months and years). Reds and yellows are notorious for that. Thinking of it, these pigments look that way because they absorb the other colors, and these are the higher energetic parts of the visible light ...

Also, the German and Swiss stamps in question are AFAIK lithographed (offset printed), so there will be no mechanical traces on the paper (as would be left by typography or recess printing)

-jmh

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

Contact Webmaster | Visitors Online | Unsubscribe Emails | Facebook


User Agreement

Copyright © 2024 Stamporama.com