Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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There are tons of albums devoted to face-different stamps, with no acknowledgment, much less space, for things like perfs, presses, plates, watermarks, color, phosphor, and papers (nor reprints). That allows one to reduce the 200-odd Washington Franklins into maybe 30 or so face different spots.
Whatever floats your boat.
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{cruel opinion}
The only useful thing about watermark detection is that it can be a cool magic trick used to amaze small children and entice them into the hobby ... provided, of course, that you do not ruin the magic by making it into anything more than that.
{/cruel opinion}
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey (who firmly supports the right of exhibitors to incorporate watermark varieties into their exhibits, etc, etc, etc)
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Filling all the achievable holes in a collection tends to drive us to expand our collecting horizons. Some collectors go outward (i.e. new countries) and some go inward (varieties such as watermark, plating, freaks, errors etc.).
Don
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03:02:53pm
I am a big fan of "face different" or "simplified" collecting (as the Stanley Gibbons Simplified catalogue refers to it), especially for 19th century stamps (my "First 30 Years of Stamps" collection).
I will happily sell the more expensive perf / watermark / shade variety to those who like the complexity, and collect the nicest copy of the most inexpensive version for myself.
I collect stamps for the visual appeal -- the colour, engraving, art, history, postal cancellation etc. and nothing bores me quicker than "watermark 7b inverted and reversed" (I made that up).
But thankfully, a lot of people love the complexity, which gives me a market to sell the items that don't interest me so I can buy the ones that do.
Roy
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03:11:35pm
I recall discussion on this board several years ago about a simplified listing of early US stamps. A Google search for "US simplified stamp catalog" did not return any useful hits. Does anybody know if such a listing was completed and is available?
Roy
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Again, no offence intended, but when I think of someone collecting "face only stamps" I think of a beginning collector trying to fill an album with mainly pretty pictures of horse or butterflies. I know that makes me an old fart but I'm afraid that's how I think. We all have a right to collect in our own way, I do accept that. But all I am thinking right now is a Canadian collector collecting face only who has the fourth known copy of #32 placed over a simple picture of a green 2 cent large Queen! But maybe there really is no reason why a laid paper should be considered different from a wove paper - each to our own!!!!
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03:29:19pm
" I think of a beginning collector trying to fill an album with mainly pretty pictures of horse or butterflies. "
Well, that's your mental picture, this is mine:
Stamporama Exhibit: A Taste of the Classics
Roy
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A beautiful collection Roy. I really meant no offence to anyone, it's just my weird sense of humour. And also I collect the way I like just like all of you collect the way you like. Not everything I collect depends on watermarks and perforation. I started a collection based on stamps about comic books and movies I like. I don't worry about the numbers or even the country. I guess I can be as wild and carefree as anyone else out there. People who collect according to face pictures are just as valid as someone who collects anything else.
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"it's not worth the seller checking watermarks, perfs and colour shades."
Several months ago I assembled some approval books with stamps identified and arranged by Scott catalog number. These were inexpensive stamps and it was not worthwhile to identify watermark and perforation varieties. My books included the caveat that the catalog numbers in some cases did not accurately identify the variety. Several members (none of whom had ever purchased anything from me) roundly criticized my practice as unethical and a misrepresentation. This is one of the reasons I no longer sell on this platform.
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If someone is going to do an approval book it is his/her right to do what they want as long as the rules are obeyed. Beyond that if someone is going to include a page of stamps for about a dollar or so each they should probably make sure they are properly checked. Many stamps, as you know, are worth almost nothing and checking them for watermarks, etc. seems rather pointless to me. I think , if you're going to put a stamp to auction, a bit more care might be taken. But again, your choice. But, I would not buy an expensive stamp without a number unless it was very obvious what it is. This would possibly mean a bit more work for the seller and a bit more care by the buyer.
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I do not think equates to a trend change. The seller may not even know or want to spend the time. But since I do collect watermarks, I would skip over them if not identified.
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06:46:15pm
@Harvey
No offence taken. I was just pointing out the difference between possible interpretations of "face different" collecting.
Roy
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"Are there many people out there who collect stamps by just the picture on the stamp?"
I guess there must be.
I quote Stanley Gibbons numbers in my auction listings which must be meaningless to a large number of members as Scott's seems to be the norm here.
Gibbons Stamps of the World catalogue makes no mention of watermark or perforation differences. How can one know that there are variations? They cannot. In some sets the cat nos are not even in sequence. The Ceres stamps of Portugal can run something like 456, 532, 726, 339, 457.
For my run of the mill inexpensive Approval Books I do not give cat nos at all and they still sell so the buyers obviously are buying on picture only.
I have also found that the less information you give then the picky-picky folks have nothing to get their teeth into. Basically there is the stamp, you can see it, buy it...... or not.
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A question was asked as to whether any lists of only face different stamps have been produced for forming a stamp collection. There is a list along with a stamp album for USA stamps published by Professional Stamp Experts entitled "A Guide to U. S. Design Numbers". I think that if I had seen this before I started my USA collection it would have been the path I would have taken for that collection. In a way I have started a new USA collection along with a world collection based on a similar approach using the Scott International USA sections in the Part 1A1 through 5 albums for 1840-1963 with an even more abbreviated inclusion of listed stamps at least for the USA sections.
I would love to see a world album as a replacement/alternative for the International albums that included only face different issues produced even as a print it yourself album although it would be nice to see all stamp "boxes" sized for use of Scott or similar quality mounts. Something intermediate in comprehensiveness between the International Junior albums and the original Brown International or Scott Speciality albums would be a likely result.
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08:23:02am
"There is a list along with a stamp album for USA stamps published by Professional Stamp Experts entitled "A Guide to U. S. Design Numbers""
Have you got a link for this? I tried their site, and a Google search and could not find it.
Roy
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Just wanted to say what I do.. Since I am not an expert on many of the countries that I assemble approval books for I do one of the following:
1) Just do not include any stamps that may be one of two or more different varieties unless I can easily identify and I am sure of the perforation or watermark.
2) I ere on the side of lowest value. If one variety catalogs for 25 cents and one may be worth $3.00 - if I include the stamp I go with the lower value. If the buyer gets the more expensive variety - they can either ask me for a refund or they probably are happy they got the more expensive stamp.
For countries that I sell - that I collect myself -the identification process is easier. My problems tend to me more on the printing/paper/color used for stamps. I can not tell the difference or know which one I have for sure unless I have both in front of me to compare them. Is the paper for example, thick, thin or coarse ? If I am not sure I use one of the two options above - usually I just do not include the stamp.
I have the same problem on the other platform I sell on (Hipstamp) - I follow the same rules there. I am sure over the course of the last 10 years - I have let slip thru my hands some more expensive stamps for 15 cents ! Steve
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Anyone who can sell almost 80 000 items must be doing something right!
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" I have let slip thru my hands some more expensive stamps for 15 cents !"
I bet none of the buyers of these bargains sent a message " Steve, you have under-priced this stamp"
But if you've overpriced a stamp, even in error, boy will they let you know!!
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Steve has wonderful stuff at fair prices, as do you Ian. I just placed bids with Steve for some beautiful Swiss official stamps for The League of Nations, items I will probably never see again. That's one of the many good things about this site, so many of you with varied interests. I won't say the price doesn't matter, of course it matters, but I'm willing to pay fair prices for great items. Hopefully you make a bit of money on your "stuff". I know I get enjoyment out of it!!!
Edit: I must be losing it - the Swiss stuff was from Larry, not Steve. Not that it really matters, it's still great stuff at a very fair price. There's only one person I've seen on SoR with prices that are a bit high and I have still picked up great stuff from him as well. You just have to figure out how much you want the items. I have messaged people on occasion telling them how fair I find their prices.
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" some beautiful Swiss official stamps for The League of Nations, items I will probably never see again."
Aye! Some of these are hard to find.
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"I just placed bids with Steve for some beautiful Swiss official stamps for The League of Nations, items I will probably never see again.
"
I knew it was not me !! - I never had any of those stamps !
"I bet none of the buyers of these bargains sent a message " Steve, you have under-priced this stamp"
"
You are right !
Steve
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"... I am a big fan of "face different" or "simplified" collecting ..."
#METOO
I would like to object to the name "simplified", which anchors the hobby in a Minutiae Fetish which not everyone shares.
I no longer talk about "perforation varieties" but, instead, I talk about "counting those little bumps around the edges".
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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12:14:39pm
Quite often I'll see a page of stamps where all the stamps are differentiated by water marks into several different series. I know some would interest me if a number were indicated. Unfortunately the stamps are all inexpensive so it's not worth the seller checking watermarks, perfs and colour shades. I also really don't want to buy the whole page since I hate checking watermarks myself. Are there many people out there who collect stamps by just the picture on the stamp? I know this is becoming more common. I was a high school math teacher for 34 years and found a definite lack of patience in the students over the last several years. Is this why this new kind (?) of stamp collecting is taking off? When my wife and I started collecting many years ago the first things we invested in were a perforation guide, a colour guide and a watermark detecting "kit". I guess things are changing!
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Auctions
re: No offence intended...just curious
There are tons of albums devoted to face-different stamps, with no acknowledgment, much less space, for things like perfs, presses, plates, watermarks, color, phosphor, and papers (nor reprints). That allows one to reduce the 200-odd Washington Franklins into maybe 30 or so face different spots.
Whatever floats your boat.
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re: No offence intended...just curious
{cruel opinion}
The only useful thing about watermark detection is that it can be a cool magic trick used to amaze small children and entice them into the hobby ... provided, of course, that you do not ruin the magic by making it into anything more than that.
{/cruel opinion}
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey (who firmly supports the right of exhibitors to incorporate watermark varieties into their exhibits, etc, etc, etc)
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re: No offence intended...just curious
Filling all the achievable holes in a collection tends to drive us to expand our collecting horizons. Some collectors go outward (i.e. new countries) and some go inward (varieties such as watermark, plating, freaks, errors etc.).
Don
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18 Feb 2020
03:02:53pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
I am a big fan of "face different" or "simplified" collecting (as the Stanley Gibbons Simplified catalogue refers to it), especially for 19th century stamps (my "First 30 Years of Stamps" collection).
I will happily sell the more expensive perf / watermark / shade variety to those who like the complexity, and collect the nicest copy of the most inexpensive version for myself.
I collect stamps for the visual appeal -- the colour, engraving, art, history, postal cancellation etc. and nothing bores me quicker than "watermark 7b inverted and reversed" (I made that up).
But thankfully, a lot of people love the complexity, which gives me a market to sell the items that don't interest me so I can buy the ones that do.
Roy
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18 Feb 2020
03:11:35pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
I recall discussion on this board several years ago about a simplified listing of early US stamps. A Google search for "US simplified stamp catalog" did not return any useful hits. Does anybody know if such a listing was completed and is available?
Roy
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03:11:49pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
Again, no offence intended, but when I think of someone collecting "face only stamps" I think of a beginning collector trying to fill an album with mainly pretty pictures of horse or butterflies. I know that makes me an old fart but I'm afraid that's how I think. We all have a right to collect in our own way, I do accept that. But all I am thinking right now is a Canadian collector collecting face only who has the fourth known copy of #32 placed over a simple picture of a green 2 cent large Queen! But maybe there really is no reason why a laid paper should be considered different from a wove paper - each to our own!!!!
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 300 categories
18 Feb 2020
03:29:19pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
" I think of a beginning collector trying to fill an album with mainly pretty pictures of horse or butterflies. "
Well, that's your mental picture, this is mine:
Stamporama Exhibit: A Taste of the Classics
Roy
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05:16:55pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
A beautiful collection Roy. I really meant no offence to anyone, it's just my weird sense of humour. And also I collect the way I like just like all of you collect the way you like. Not everything I collect depends on watermarks and perforation. I started a collection based on stamps about comic books and movies I like. I don't worry about the numbers or even the country. I guess I can be as wild and carefree as anyone else out there. People who collect according to face pictures are just as valid as someone who collects anything else.
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05:33:24pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
"it's not worth the seller checking watermarks, perfs and colour shades."
Several months ago I assembled some approval books with stamps identified and arranged by Scott catalog number. These were inexpensive stamps and it was not worthwhile to identify watermark and perforation varieties. My books included the caveat that the catalog numbers in some cases did not accurately identify the variety. Several members (none of whom had ever purchased anything from me) roundly criticized my practice as unethical and a misrepresentation. This is one of the reasons I no longer sell on this platform.
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05:44:10pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
If someone is going to do an approval book it is his/her right to do what they want as long as the rules are obeyed. Beyond that if someone is going to include a page of stamps for about a dollar or so each they should probably make sure they are properly checked. Many stamps, as you know, are worth almost nothing and checking them for watermarks, etc. seems rather pointless to me. I think , if you're going to put a stamp to auction, a bit more care might be taken. But again, your choice. But, I would not buy an expensive stamp without a number unless it was very obvious what it is. This would possibly mean a bit more work for the seller and a bit more care by the buyer.
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re: No offence intended...just curious
I do not think equates to a trend change. The seller may not even know or want to spend the time. But since I do collect watermarks, I would skip over them if not identified.
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18 Feb 2020
06:46:15pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
@Harvey
No offence taken. I was just pointing out the difference between possible interpretations of "face different" collecting.
Roy
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Auctions - Approvals
re: No offence intended...just curious
"Are there many people out there who collect stamps by just the picture on the stamp?"
I guess there must be.
I quote Stanley Gibbons numbers in my auction listings which must be meaningless to a large number of members as Scott's seems to be the norm here.
Gibbons Stamps of the World catalogue makes no mention of watermark or perforation differences. How can one know that there are variations? They cannot. In some sets the cat nos are not even in sequence. The Ceres stamps of Portugal can run something like 456, 532, 726, 339, 457.
For my run of the mill inexpensive Approval Books I do not give cat nos at all and they still sell so the buyers obviously are buying on picture only.
I have also found that the less information you give then the picky-picky folks have nothing to get their teeth into. Basically there is the stamp, you can see it, buy it...... or not.
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re: No offence intended...just curious
A question was asked as to whether any lists of only face different stamps have been produced for forming a stamp collection. There is a list along with a stamp album for USA stamps published by Professional Stamp Experts entitled "A Guide to U. S. Design Numbers". I think that if I had seen this before I started my USA collection it would have been the path I would have taken for that collection. In a way I have started a new USA collection along with a world collection based on a similar approach using the Scott International USA sections in the Part 1A1 through 5 albums for 1840-1963 with an even more abbreviated inclusion of listed stamps at least for the USA sections.
I would love to see a world album as a replacement/alternative for the International albums that included only face different issues produced even as a print it yourself album although it would be nice to see all stamp "boxes" sized for use of Scott or similar quality mounts. Something intermediate in comprehensiveness between the International Junior albums and the original Brown International or Scott Speciality albums would be a likely result.
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19 Feb 2020
08:23:02am
re: No offence intended...just curious
"There is a list along with a stamp album for USA stamps published by Professional Stamp Experts entitled "A Guide to U. S. Design Numbers""
Have you got a link for this? I tried their site, and a Google search and could not find it.
Roy
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Approvals
re: No offence intended...just curious
Just wanted to say what I do.. Since I am not an expert on many of the countries that I assemble approval books for I do one of the following:
1) Just do not include any stamps that may be one of two or more different varieties unless I can easily identify and I am sure of the perforation or watermark.
2) I ere on the side of lowest value. If one variety catalogs for 25 cents and one may be worth $3.00 - if I include the stamp I go with the lower value. If the buyer gets the more expensive variety - they can either ask me for a refund or they probably are happy they got the more expensive stamp.
For countries that I sell - that I collect myself -the identification process is easier. My problems tend to me more on the printing/paper/color used for stamps. I can not tell the difference or know which one I have for sure unless I have both in front of me to compare them. Is the paper for example, thick, thin or coarse ? If I am not sure I use one of the two options above - usually I just do not include the stamp.
I have the same problem on the other platform I sell on (Hipstamp) - I follow the same rules there. I am sure over the course of the last 10 years - I have let slip thru my hands some more expensive stamps for 15 cents ! Steve
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11:46:25am
re: No offence intended...just curious
Anyone who can sell almost 80 000 items must be doing something right!
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Auctions - Approvals
re: No offence intended...just curious
" I have let slip thru my hands some more expensive stamps for 15 cents !"
I bet none of the buyers of these bargains sent a message " Steve, you have under-priced this stamp"
But if you've overpriced a stamp, even in error, boy will they let you know!!
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12:52:56pm
re: No offence intended...just curious
Steve has wonderful stuff at fair prices, as do you Ian. I just placed bids with Steve for some beautiful Swiss official stamps for The League of Nations, items I will probably never see again. That's one of the many good things about this site, so many of you with varied interests. I won't say the price doesn't matter, of course it matters, but I'm willing to pay fair prices for great items. Hopefully you make a bit of money on your "stuff". I know I get enjoyment out of it!!!
Edit: I must be losing it - the Swiss stuff was from Larry, not Steve. Not that it really matters, it's still great stuff at a very fair price. There's only one person I've seen on SoR with prices that are a bit high and I have still picked up great stuff from him as well. You just have to figure out how much you want the items. I have messaged people on occasion telling them how fair I find their prices.
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Approvals
re: No offence intended...just curious
"I just placed bids with Steve for some beautiful Swiss official stamps for The League of Nations, items I will probably never see again.
"
I knew it was not me !! - I never had any of those stamps !
"I bet none of the buyers of these bargains sent a message " Steve, you have under-priced this stamp"
"
You are right !
Steve
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re: No offence intended...just curious
"... I am a big fan of "face different" or "simplified" collecting ..."
#METOO
I would like to object to the name "simplified", which anchors the hobby in a Minutiae Fetish which not everyone shares.
I no longer talk about "perforation varieties" but, instead, I talk about "counting those little bumps around the edges".
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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