Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Addition: Even if they offer a certificate, be careful. I read somewhere that faked certificates are being produced. Also, there are cases where an item has been authenticated by two different sources with different results ( I read this somewhere).
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"Also, there are cases where an item has been authenticated by two different sources with different results (I read this somewhere)."
Absolutely. There are many incidents where a stamp with a certificate has later been proven to be a fake, and vice versa. Depending on the country involved there are authenticating organizations from which a certificate is meaningless to knowledgeable collectors (and dealers).
I had a short set of early Polish overprints (2K1-2K10) and brought them to a show for a dealer I trusted to take a look at them (I had a couple of tables at the show). I walked over to his table and as I sat down turned then to face me and told him I had something to show him. He said "2nd printing". I asked if he wanted to actually look at them and he said he saw them just before I turned them - wrong ink for the first printing..
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I refuse to trust what I have. Above each set of questionable stamps, including the set you mention, I have neatly printed "REPRODUCTIONS ABOUND". That is the comment Scott's uses in it's catalog. Also, Russian stamps, especially early overprints, have the same problem. There is one Russian page in my Minkus album where there is a series of overprints ( pg. 14, #'s 216 - 229, 230 - 241Ac ). I am missing one stamp on the page, #224, Scott price $10 000+, with the comment "DANGEROUS FORGERIES EXIST". If I ever run into that stamp. certificate or not, I would be very suspicious!!!
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Russia 1922 Soviet Surcharged 20r on 15k SC#224a. inverted error ! CV.+$30,000
“Mint Stamp with original Gum (MOG), Condition"VF" ,Item uncertified, Sales it as is and no returns! $888.88 CD Buy It Now
Sounds like a real bargain, but what's the chances it's a bargain and it's REAL?
I found this on E-Bay. I'd love to finish the page in my album, but...
If I were trying to sell this, and if I were an honest dealer, I would spend a bit of money to have it certified. I could also probably get a bit more for it!
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Harvey, were they sending it by ordinary mail or by Wells Fargo security van?
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I went back and checked the shipping, nothing fancy!
C $18.00
Canada
Economy Shipping (Canada Post Lettermail)
If I were shipping something with CV $30 000 I would want to use some method a bit better than that, possibly even a good courier service.
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From my favourite site to browse when I need a good giggle. Even worse than Kijiji (which is bad but would only ask $8 for these stamps). My guess is that since the ads are free, Russian trolls place these to disrupt American Philately on their smoke breaks from trying to influence your elections.
Or perhaps it’s UPU staff trying to disrupt Our hobby - although they are doing a damn fine job of it with their moronic rules on usurious rates to be charged by simple folk like us buying and selling a few stamps cross-border. Who are these scum anyway and what’s their agenda?
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Hi Everyone;
Where has 'TuskenRaider' been? I'm so glad you asked.
No I didn't get the plague, but our library, here in Baldwin, has been closed since early in March.
Now I'm gonna have to read 33,687 forum posts, and the library only allows 30 minutes per person, per day, Monday thru Saturday!
I need to get a newer computer, soon before I go crazy!! 
I hope you are all wearing masks and staying safe and healthy. Us old geezers don't stand a chance against this silent killer!
Still just sortin....
TuskenRaider
3 Members
like this post.
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Glad to see you back amongst us, Ken!
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Russia 1922 Soviet Surcharged 20r on 15k SC#224a. inverted error ! CV.+$30,000
“Mint Stamp with original Gum (MOG), Condition"VF" ,Item uncertified, Sales it as is and no returns! $888.88 CD Buy It Now
Amazing seller & even more amazing collector
90% of his stamps sold are "rare & errors"
The Stamp in the ad is an obvious FAKE - the letters and inscriptions in the star are wrong
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What amazes me is that, considering a right-side-up overprint is in the $10 000 range, why reverse the overprint? The chances such a rarity would even exist is minuscule, that almost certainly makes it a fake! I have resigned myself to always having the gap on the page. I don't believe in space fillers, even though most of the early Poland overprints are probably fake anyway. I can't figure out why Poland and Russia seem to have so many more repros than most other countries. I suppose the only good thing is that it drives the price down for collectors, as long as we realize that a lot of our early stamps are probably not right. The fact that sellers are trying to get book values for stamps that are not certified is amazing - hopefully people aren't buying them. As I've said above, I don't think I'd trust the certificates anyway!
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An added issue arises when a seller refuses to alter a listing, even when he is told (and backup information provided to him/her) that the stamps are fake.
This borders on fraud! Some dealers are prompt to remove the stamp, but some just ignore any evidence or notice. (I am not an expert is often the response).
Reporting to ebay has never resulted in anything.
Stamps with o/p are notorious for being counterfeit. But one should not limit oneself to be concerned only by expensive stamps. I have seen counterfeits of even the simplest common and inexpensive stamps. (the aim was to defraud the post office, not the collector per sei).
rrr..
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06:19:50pm
I have collected Poland stamps for almost 40 years, initially because I found them attractive. In the last few years I have started filling in the older stuff. The early stamps are heavily reproduced, especially the overprinted issues. The repros are damn near impossible to tell from real pieces, a certificate is very necessary! I notice on E-Bay the overprints go for large prices and no authentication certificates are offered. Back to my original question - are there people out there crazy enough to buy this stuff? I have a fair bit of it, but I spend very little for it - mostly from people who offer no guarantees. I consider them to be album fillers, very few have any guarantee. I noticed a nice looking copy of Scott #78 with inverted overprint, all he wanted was $1200, no certificate. The same question...
Addition: Even if they offer a certificate, be careful. I read somewhere that faked certificates are being produced. Also, there are cases where an item has been authenticated by two different sources with different results ( I read this somewhere).
Login to Like
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re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
"Also, there are cases where an item has been authenticated by two different sources with different results (I read this somewhere)."
Absolutely. There are many incidents where a stamp with a certificate has later been proven to be a fake, and vice versa. Depending on the country involved there are authenticating organizations from which a certificate is meaningless to knowledgeable collectors (and dealers).
I had a short set of early Polish overprints (2K1-2K10) and brought them to a show for a dealer I trusted to take a look at them (I had a couple of tables at the show). I walked over to his table and as I sat down turned then to face me and told him I had something to show him. He said "2nd printing". I asked if he wanted to actually look at them and he said he saw them just before I turned them - wrong ink for the first printing..
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07:43:46pm
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
I refuse to trust what I have. Above each set of questionable stamps, including the set you mention, I have neatly printed "REPRODUCTIONS ABOUND". That is the comment Scott's uses in it's catalog. Also, Russian stamps, especially early overprints, have the same problem. There is one Russian page in my Minkus album where there is a series of overprints ( pg. 14, #'s 216 - 229, 230 - 241Ac ). I am missing one stamp on the page, #224, Scott price $10 000+, with the comment "DANGEROUS FORGERIES EXIST". If I ever run into that stamp. certificate or not, I would be very suspicious!!!
Login to Like
this post
06:48:14pm
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
Russia 1922 Soviet Surcharged 20r on 15k SC#224a. inverted error ! CV.+$30,000
“Mint Stamp with original Gum (MOG), Condition"VF" ,Item uncertified, Sales it as is and no returns! $888.88 CD Buy It Now
Sounds like a real bargain, but what's the chances it's a bargain and it's REAL?
I found this on E-Bay. I'd love to finish the page in my album, but...
If I were trying to sell this, and if I were an honest dealer, I would spend a bit of money to have it certified. I could also probably get a bit more for it!
Login to Like
this post
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
Harvey, were they sending it by ordinary mail or by Wells Fargo security van?
Login to Like
this post
07:32:52pm
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
I went back and checked the shipping, nothing fancy!
C $18.00
Canada
Economy Shipping (Canada Post Lettermail)
If I were shipping something with CV $30 000 I would want to use some method a bit better than that, possibly even a good courier service.
Login to Like
this post
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
From my favourite site to browse when I need a good giggle. Even worse than Kijiji (which is bad but would only ask $8 for these stamps). My guess is that since the ads are free, Russian trolls place these to disrupt American Philately on their smoke breaks from trying to influence your elections.
Or perhaps it’s UPU staff trying to disrupt Our hobby - although they are doing a damn fine job of it with their moronic rules on usurious rates to be charged by simple folk like us buying and selling a few stamps cross-border. Who are these scum anyway and what’s their agenda?
Login to Like
this post
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
Hi Everyone;
Where has 'TuskenRaider' been? I'm so glad you asked.
No I didn't get the plague, but our library, here in Baldwin, has been closed since early in March.
Now I'm gonna have to read 33,687 forum posts, and the library only allows 30 minutes per person, per day, Monday thru Saturday!
I need to get a newer computer, soon before I go crazy!!
I hope you are all wearing masks and staying safe and healthy. Us old geezers don't stand a chance against this silent killer!
Still just sortin....
TuskenRaider
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
Glad to see you back amongst us, Ken!
Login to Like
this post
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
Russia 1922 Soviet Surcharged 20r on 15k SC#224a. inverted error ! CV.+$30,000
“Mint Stamp with original Gum (MOG), Condition"VF" ,Item uncertified, Sales it as is and no returns! $888.88 CD Buy It Now
Amazing seller & even more amazing collector
90% of his stamps sold are "rare & errors"
The Stamp in the ad is an obvious FAKE - the letters and inscriptions in the star are wrong
Login to Like
this post
08:46:57am
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
What amazes me is that, considering a right-side-up overprint is in the $10 000 range, why reverse the overprint? The chances such a rarity would even exist is minuscule, that almost certainly makes it a fake! I have resigned myself to always having the gap on the page. I don't believe in space fillers, even though most of the early Poland overprints are probably fake anyway. I can't figure out why Poland and Russia seem to have so many more repros than most other countries. I suppose the only good thing is that it drives the price down for collectors, as long as we realize that a lot of our early stamps are probably not right. The fact that sellers are trying to get book values for stamps that are not certified is amazing - hopefully people aren't buying them. As I've said above, I don't think I'd trust the certificates anyway!
Login to Like
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
26 Sep 2020
01:22:40pm
re: Are there people crazy enough to buy this stuff?
An added issue arises when a seller refuses to alter a listing, even when he is told (and backup information provided to him/her) that the stamps are fake.
This borders on fraud! Some dealers are prompt to remove the stamp, but some just ignore any evidence or notice. (I am not an expert is often the response).
Reporting to ebay has never resulted in anything.
Stamps with o/p are notorious for being counterfeit. But one should not limit oneself to be concerned only by expensive stamps. I have seen counterfeits of even the simplest common and inexpensive stamps. (the aim was to defraud the post office, not the collector per sei).
rrr..
Login to Like
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