Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
"If I buy a single stamp from my American buddy (let's call him "Donald") for 5c, or if my other American friend (let's call her "Karen") sends me a freebie stamp, they both should fill out a customs form and attach it to the envelope (with proper postage!) before sending it to me."
I think I hear Webpaper, Linus, Anglophile, Mikey #s (and probably many more members) nodding in the affirmative and saying "it's about time you PITA!. So, in the words of your president I humbly accept "it is what it is".
So now I have a followup question: "How do we best live with this situation so we can all continue to enjoy our stamp collecting passion - and so The Holocaust Stamps Project (Canada) does not fold under the weight of the UPU bureaucracy.
One solution (apparently followed by a growing number of SOR members) seems to be "no more selling to, or donating to, a Canadian address. Personal choice, fair enough, and I have no argument with it. However, I don't like that solution so I'd like to find another way to hopefully keep the borders (and love of stamps) flowing.
First, a question. In either of the cases above, does it cost Donald and/or Karen any more cash money to include a customs declaration with the envelope, as opposed to just affixing the postage and dropping it in a mailbox as if a "normal" letter to a Canadian? If the answer is "no", then we are down to a matter of (in)convenience and the perceived time-value of the process. So now, here's my decision-chain if I am Donald/Karen:
(a) Could I pick up a couple dozen customs forms when I'm at the post office, to have on hand for mailing to my beloved SOR friend "Canadian-Dave"? That would make it easier than if I had to make a trip to pick up a single form every time I had a stamp to send him. So I wouldn't be so fast to tell Canadian-Dave "bugger-off, you're too high maintenance".
(b) Could I link to a USPS site that allows me to download customs forms as needed? If so, then - as above - I'd still be willing to continue dealing with Canadian-Dave, especially since he's such a nice guy.
(c) Could I fill out a declaration form in 5-10 minutes (some downloadable forms allow pre-filling certain areas, or I could pre-fill my personal information manually on a bunch of bulk forms at half-time of a Sunday football game)? If so, then considering how much time it takes me to find stamps and sell them anyway, continuing my relationship with Canadian-Dave would still be worthwhile. However (and this is just me personally with my incredibly valuable time and usual billing rate) If it takes 30 minutes to fill out the forms, uh ... not even sending a stamp to the more handsome and charming Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau would be worth the effort!
So, is it worth cutting off dozens of years of beautiful "SOR US-Canadian Philatelic Love" (TM) because of this obnoxious (and unnecessary but legally-required) piece of paper? Or is there a better solution at hand that we can live with?
Thoughts? Other solutions?
Back for a longer nap until tomorrow around 9:00 am.
Canadian-Dave (aka "lemaven").
Login to Like
this post
It is not quite that simple. To be able to mail a package with the customs form attached without having to physically go to the post office and stand in line 6 geet apart in a line that either wends it way through the post office or goes out the door and onto the sidewalk you must complete the entire transaction on line. That means filling out the customs form, printing the postage and customs forms, making certain that the item meets the requirements for size,thickness and weight. You cannot use postage stamps - everything has to be done online. You cannot prefill customs forms - they need electronic entry created by you.
From the USPS website
"If you have a mailpiece with a customs form that was not completed and submitted online or any mail item that requires a customs form and bears postage, you must take it to a Post Office retail counter to mail it. If you put it in your mailbox, the carrier will leave it there. If you drop it in a blue collection box or lobby drop, it will be returned to you."
Wait times at our post office varies from 5 minutes to around 45 minutes or so. During peak holiday periods 45 minutes was the norm last year - with all the covid restrictions and physical barriers I expect this year an hour or so would not be unusual.
Login to Like
this post
I get a bunch of CN 22 customs forms from my local Post Office and fill them in and affix to the envelope.
Every envelope or package I send I get a Proof of Postage certificate so every item has to be taken to the local Post Office.
If I have them I use stamps on the packages if not then a Horizon Label is put on by the Postal Clerk.
I have never had an item returned to me for wrong/incomplete customs form or insufficient postage.
So Far So Good!!
Login to Like
this post
Unfortunately, in addition to the customs form requirement, there is the issue of mailing cost. The most inexpensive service for sending a small packet of postage stamps from the U.S. to Canada is First-Class Package International Service at $12.25.
The USPS website states "First-Class Mail International® (FCMI®) is our most affordable option for sending postcards, letters, and large envelopes weighing up to 15.994 ounces. No merchandise may be mailed with FCMI." and "Letters and flats must contain only documents and cannot contain any other goods."
The new rules were put in place by the UPU after the U.S. threatened to withdraw.
Login to Like
this post
"...The new rules were put in place by the UPU after the U.S. threatened to withdraw."
I do not recall that the US threatened to leave the UPU for this regulation. The regulation is called ‘Integrated Product Plan’ and was passed by the 192 member countries during the October 2016 UPU Congress in Istanbul. The ‘Integrated Product Plan’ made a differentiation between “documents” and “goods” and required member countries to implement this starting in January 2018.
https://mailomg.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/mail-newspaper-edition-may-2017-page-11.pdf
I do agree that much more recently the US threatened to leave the UPU due to the grievance that UPU had mandated cheaper rates granted to countries designated as "developing" — namely China.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Don, You are correct. I had misremembered the timeline. Here is a summary of the changes made effective Jan 21, 2018.
https://blog.stamps.com/2017/12/26/important-usps-making-changes-first-class-mail-international-flats/
Login to Like
this post
Another option is sending a parcel by UPS or Fedex. In looking at UPS rates it appears that a package of 10 pounds and value less than $20 can be sent for about $40 from the U.S. to Canada. That works out to about $4/lb. Which is cheaper than USPS alternatives. I have been accumulating donations to the Holocaust project and have a ten pound box getting ready to send. I sent a 7 pound box last year via Fedex but it cost a bit more. Of course a customs form must be attached to the package.
Login to Like
this post
It has been a long time since this happened to me, but I believe UPS charges a "brokerage fee" (?) when an item crosses the border. I remember years ago getting a Christmas present for a friend and the brokerage fee was more than the value of the item. Can anyone with more knowledge than me on this subject make a comment?
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I have heard that about both UPS an Fedex but have no personal experience. You will need to ask up front because I don't believe that they tell you (since I believe they charge the recipient). This is second hand information but the old line "Trust, but verify" holds true here...
Login to Like
this post
After waking up from a refreshing nap, I found myself moved from a need for a posteriori knowledge to that of accepting an a priori truth:
"If I buy a single stamp from my American buddy (let's call him "Donald") for 5c, or if my other American friend (let's call her "Karen") sends me a freebie stamp, they both should fill out a customs form and attach it to the envelope (with proper postage!) before sending it to me."
I think I hear Webpaper, Linus, Anglophile, Mikey #s (and probably many more members) nodding in the affirmative and saying "it's about time you PITA!. So, in the words of your president I humbly accept "it is what it is".
So now I have a followup question: "How do we best live with this situation so we can all continue to enjoy our stamp collecting passion - and so The Holocaust Stamps Project (Canada) does not fold under the weight of the UPU bureaucracy.
One solution (apparently followed by a growing number of SOR members) seems to be "no more selling to, or donating to, a Canadian address. Personal choice, fair enough, and I have no argument with it. However, I don't like that solution so I'd like to find another way to hopefully keep the borders (and love of stamps) flowing.
First, a question. In either of the cases above, does it cost Donald and/or Karen any more cash money to include a customs declaration with the envelope, as opposed to just affixing the postage and dropping it in a mailbox as if a "normal" letter to a Canadian? If the answer is "no", then we are down to a matter of (in)convenience and the perceived time-value of the process. So now, here's my decision-chain if I am Donald/Karen:
(a) Could I pick up a couple dozen customs forms when I'm at the post office, to have on hand for mailing to my beloved SOR friend "Canadian-Dave"? That would make it easier than if I had to make a trip to pick up a single form every time I had a stamp to send him. So I wouldn't be so fast to tell Canadian-Dave "bugger-off, you're too high maintenance".
(b) Could I link to a USPS site that allows me to download customs forms as needed? If so, then - as above - I'd still be willing to continue dealing with Canadian-Dave, especially since he's such a nice guy.
(c) Could I fill out a declaration form in 5-10 minutes (some downloadable forms allow pre-filling certain areas, or I could pre-fill my personal information manually on a bunch of bulk forms at half-time of a Sunday football game)? If so, then considering how much time it takes me to find stamps and sell them anyway, continuing my relationship with Canadian-Dave would still be worthwhile. However (and this is just me personally with my incredibly valuable time and usual billing rate) If it takes 30 minutes to fill out the forms, uh ... not even sending a stamp to the more handsome and charming Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau would be worth the effort!
So, is it worth cutting off dozens of years of beautiful "SOR US-Canadian Philatelic Love" (TM) because of this obnoxious (and unnecessary but legally-required) piece of paper? Or is there a better solution at hand that we can live with?
Thoughts? Other solutions?
Back for a longer nap until tomorrow around 9:00 am.
Canadian-Dave (aka "lemaven").
Login to Like
this post
re: Mailing From US to Canada (Part 2): Moving From Opinion & Debate to Solutions....
It is not quite that simple. To be able to mail a package with the customs form attached without having to physically go to the post office and stand in line 6 geet apart in a line that either wends it way through the post office or goes out the door and onto the sidewalk you must complete the entire transaction on line. That means filling out the customs form, printing the postage and customs forms, making certain that the item meets the requirements for size,thickness and weight. You cannot use postage stamps - everything has to be done online. You cannot prefill customs forms - they need electronic entry created by you.
From the USPS website
"If you have a mailpiece with a customs form that was not completed and submitted online or any mail item that requires a customs form and bears postage, you must take it to a Post Office retail counter to mail it. If you put it in your mailbox, the carrier will leave it there. If you drop it in a blue collection box or lobby drop, it will be returned to you."
Wait times at our post office varies from 5 minutes to around 45 minutes or so. During peak holiday periods 45 minutes was the norm last year - with all the covid restrictions and physical barriers I expect this year an hour or so would not be unusual.
Login to Like
this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Mailing From US to Canada (Part 2): Moving From Opinion & Debate to Solutions....
I get a bunch of CN 22 customs forms from my local Post Office and fill them in and affix to the envelope.
Every envelope or package I send I get a Proof of Postage certificate so every item has to be taken to the local Post Office.
If I have them I use stamps on the packages if not then a Horizon Label is put on by the Postal Clerk.
I have never had an item returned to me for wrong/incomplete customs form or insufficient postage.
So Far So Good!!
Login to Like
this post
11:50:58am
re: Mailing From US to Canada (Part 2): Moving From Opinion & Debate to Solutions....
Unfortunately, in addition to the customs form requirement, there is the issue of mailing cost. The most inexpensive service for sending a small packet of postage stamps from the U.S. to Canada is First-Class Package International Service at $12.25.
The USPS website states "First-Class Mail International® (FCMI®) is our most affordable option for sending postcards, letters, and large envelopes weighing up to 15.994 ounces. No merchandise may be mailed with FCMI." and "Letters and flats must contain only documents and cannot contain any other goods."
The new rules were put in place by the UPU after the U.S. threatened to withdraw.
Login to Like
this post
re: Mailing From US to Canada (Part 2): Moving From Opinion & Debate to Solutions....
"...The new rules were put in place by the UPU after the U.S. threatened to withdraw."
I do not recall that the US threatened to leave the UPU for this regulation. The regulation is called ‘Integrated Product Plan’ and was passed by the 192 member countries during the October 2016 UPU Congress in Istanbul. The ‘Integrated Product Plan’ made a differentiation between “documents” and “goods” and required member countries to implement this starting in January 2018.
https://mailomg.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/mail-newspaper-edition-may-2017-page-11.pdf
I do agree that much more recently the US threatened to leave the UPU due to the grievance that UPU had mandated cheaper rates granted to countries designated as "developing" — namely China.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
04:52:55pm
re: Mailing From US to Canada (Part 2): Moving From Opinion & Debate to Solutions....
Don, You are correct. I had misremembered the timeline. Here is a summary of the changes made effective Jan 21, 2018.
https://blog.stamps.com/2017/12/26/important-usps-making-changes-first-class-mail-international-flats/
Login to Like
this post
re: Mailing From US to Canada (Part 2): Moving From Opinion & Debate to Solutions....
Another option is sending a parcel by UPS or Fedex. In looking at UPS rates it appears that a package of 10 pounds and value less than $20 can be sent for about $40 from the U.S. to Canada. That works out to about $4/lb. Which is cheaper than USPS alternatives. I have been accumulating donations to the Holocaust project and have a ten pound box getting ready to send. I sent a 7 pound box last year via Fedex but it cost a bit more. Of course a customs form must be attached to the package.
Login to Like
this post
10:48:42am
re: Mailing From US to Canada (Part 2): Moving From Opinion & Debate to Solutions....
It has been a long time since this happened to me, but I believe UPS charges a "brokerage fee" (?) when an item crosses the border. I remember years ago getting a Christmas present for a friend and the brokerage fee was more than the value of the item. Can anyone with more knowledge than me on this subject make a comment?
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Mailing From US to Canada (Part 2): Moving From Opinion & Debate to Solutions....
I have heard that about both UPS an Fedex but have no personal experience. You will need to ask up front because I don't believe that they tell you (since I believe they charge the recipient). This is second hand information but the old line "Trust, but verify" holds true here...
Login to Like
this post