Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
1) The 1957-58 5pf (SC#330) is emerald and has an imprint (Gruener/Wolf). But so too does the 1953-54 version (SC#188). So how do you tell the difference (hopefully it's not just a watermark!!!)
2) I have the 5pf emerald Mariner and and 10pf blue-green Machinists - both without an imprint, and I can't figure out where they belong (they both have shading lines but can't be #188 and #191 from 1953-54 as those issues have the imprints).
Most Important Question: Are the Scott prices for Mint for real?
Out of my couple hundred 5-Year Plan stamps the majority appear to be CTO and a couple handfuls look to be postally used - and all are listed as minimum CV. But I found an envelope of a couple dozen primarily MNH with a few MH. The catalogue values for some that I have MNH are:
#198 30pf CV $8.00
#200 40pf CV $10.00
#230 50pf CV $6.25
Why are the the MNH CVs so high (based on the number I have found they certainly can't be hard to find in that condition)? Do retail prices reflect these high valuations?
Many thanks for answers to any/all of the questions above.
Cheers, Dave.
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It would have been better if you had posted the images of the stamps.
I tried to find the correspondence no. Scott with no. Michel that I use.
My answers are:
1. Just watermark
2.Scott # 476.477
3. If the MNH stamps are like these, the catalog value is 0.3 Euro each.
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As you know, this is a definitive series, and as a rule, such stamps are just used for postage in large numbers, while comparatively few remain unused in collectors' albums. They are considered just too "common" which leads to the paradoxical situation that some unused definitives now command higher prices than some unused commemoratives.
If you don't mind converting from Michel to Scott numbers, there is a useful resource in German. It is a one-page schematic which helps to tell one issue from the other:
Fünfjahrplan-Navigator
A more detailed explanation of the background of this series (in German) is given on pp. 15 ff. of this publication:
Post für Dich August-Oktober 2003
(publications by Junge Briefmarkenfreunde in Berlin und Brandenburg)
Martin
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Thanks Martin for this interesting information.
I used the table from cat.Michel with the subsequent verification after no.Michel.
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Dave.
A few possible resources. Perhaps already known to SOR member, but felt worth mentioning.
First is an article entitled "Varieties and types of postage stamps of the German Democratic Republic; the Five-Year Plan (1953/59)".
Link: worldstampproject.org/gdr-five-year-plan-varieties-postage-stamps
Second, a quick reference identification matrix compiled by SOR member Rod from Western Australia. Don't have a link for this, but perhaps Rod would consider reposting.
Third, believe the late Jay Carrigan authored some material on the subject. (Believe his "jaxpex" site is no long active.) So try Googling.
Interesting collecting area. Lots of variety. Have fun.
Jim
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Maybe reading this post helps you too.............
Fünf jahre plan briefmarken / Five year plans stamps
And rich???
1953 serie 1 with the common watermarks MNH 150 euros.
1953 serie 2 with the common watermarks MNH 250 euros.
1954 serie with new values MNH 32 euros.
1955 serie MNH 40 euros.
1957 serie MNH 16 euros for the A serie and 3 euros for the B serie.
So, come on.....
"
1) The 1957-58 5pf (SC#330) is emerald and has an imprint (Gruener/Wolf). But so too does the 1953-54 version (SC#188). So how do you tell the difference (hopefully it's not just a watermark!!!)"
Well in most cases it is......
"
2) I have the 5pf emerald Mariner and and 10pf blue-green Machinists - both without an imprint, and I can't figure out where they belong (they both have shading lines but can't be #188 and #191 from 1953-54 as those issues have the imprints)"
I Think your 10 pfg is from 1959 and your 10 pfg from 1958.
But just what Gerom said in an ealier post :
Scan those stamps and place them here so we can see what you are talking about.
Now we are only guessing..........
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Thanks for the responses gang, very helpful (in particular Jim's "worldstampproject" link). One thing that answered some questions was discovering there was a redesign of the series in 1959-60. Unfortunately, I had missed printing that sheet from my Steiner pages!
Apologies for not sharing a scan and being delayed getting back to the topic. My wife's school (in fact all schools here) are in total chaos with the pandemic - and her father (84 but still insisting on volunteering at a school breakfast program for kids) just tested positive!
Here's the scan of the 5pf emerald "female mariner" and four variations I've found:
1) Shading in lines, perf 13x12.5, Gruener/Wolf imprint at the bottom, darker colour with less definition (look at the face) than #2.
2) Shading in lines, perf 14, no imprint, lighter colouring with more definition than #1.
3) Shading in fine dots, perf 13x12.5, no imprint, darker colour with less definition (look at the shoulders and hair) than #4.
4) Shading in fine dots, perf 13x12.5, no imprint, lighter colouring with more definition than #3.
The 10pf issues are in disarray, so I can't do any scans - I'm hoping comments on these will lead me to the conclusions on identifying other values.
Many thanks for the feedback, Dave.
P.S. Don't know how much a "Euro" is worth, but my personal threshold for declaring myself rich is exceedingly low...and I have since discovered (see opening line) that all the Mint stamps are invariably minimum CV 1959-60 issues. But I'm still looking for the big windfall!!!
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Thanks for the scans :
All stamps have the "A" in the word "demokratische" under the "E" of the word "deutsche"
I can not give you SCOTT numbers so my catalognumbers are those that MICHEL mentions.
No 1 : Buchdruck (letterpress), 2nd Edition -> Michel Nr 406x and you can have 3 watermarks here X-I, X-II or Y-1
No 2 : Buchdruck (letterpress), 5th edition or later, Perf 14 -> Michel Nr 577B
No 3 : Offsetdruck (offset printing), 1st edition -> Michel Nr 363 and you can have 2 watermarks here X-I or X-II, because the cancelation is a quater-part of a circle and the "A" is under the "E" it is a Nachdruck
No 4 : Offsetdruck (offset printing), 1st edition -> Michel Nr 363 and you can have 2 watermarks here X-I or X-II, because the cancelation is a quarter-part of a circle and the "A" is under the "E" it is a Nachdruck
So 3 and 4 are the same stamp but maybe with 2 different watermarks.
So you have one more thing to do : Check the watermarks
For the watermarks see my earlier post with the link : Fünf jahre plan briefmarken / Five year plans stamps.
GDR stamps are sometimes difficult to identify, but that belongs to stamp collecting is not it?
P.S.
Thanks JMH67 for the link to the navigator. Usefull tips on one A4 sheet 
P.P.S.
1 euro is now 1,22 US dollars
1 liter of unleaded gas will cost you 2 US dollars now, in the Netherlands
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Dave,
You can find on "www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=65524&sid=5b9fd3b7e04855c78abeffcb2ead3bf1&start=100" the stamps at a good resolution from the German Democratic Republic.
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Hopefully my last question, but first a comment: I hate collecting watermark variations!!! Not such a good time for someone with Adult-ADD.
I have a bunch of the first issues, some like #1 with the bottom "A" between the top "H E" but most like #2 with the bottom "A" and top "E" stacked on top of each other.
The sites quoted note this - but without details (other than perhaps in German...) but Scott doesn't list them. Are they both variations from 1953 but printed on different dates? Can these be found in all values or just some of them (which ones)?
Last definitives to review are "Ulbricht" - hoping those are not as frustrating.
Cheers, Dave.
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Offset (litho) printings with A under E (like your No. 2) are always "Nachdruck", i.e. printings from new plates with printed cancels for the collector market. IMHO they aren't real stamps at all, just vignettes. That's probably also the reason why your catalog does not list them.
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No 1 : Offsetdruck (offset printing), 1st edition -> Michel Nr 367 and you can have 4 (!! sorry can not help it) watermarks here X-I, X-II, Y-I or Y-II, the cancelation seems to be ok (so not a mass cancelation) the "A" stands under the "HE" so NO Nachdruck.
No 2 : Offsetdruck (offset printing), 1st edition -> Michel Nr 367 and you can have 4 (!! sorry can not help it) watermarks here X-I, X-II, Y-I or Y-II, because the cancelation is a quarter-part of a circle and the "A" is under the "E" it is a Nachdruck
I told you before the GDR stamps are sometimes difficult to identify. (different watermarks, different paper, different perf's, different gom)
And about the Walter Ulbricht stamps I will warn you about those stamps :
3 different watermarks (3X, 3Y, 1)
2 different gom white-yellow and yellow-white to white ( x and y )
3 different types of printing (Bgdr = Bogendruck and Rdr = Rollenrotationsdruck and later StTdr = StichTiefdruck)
I do not now the english terms of these printings, maybe some else could be of assistance here)
The serie starts in 1961 and ends in 1972.
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The Walter Ulbricht Stamps :
1 Watermarks differences
2 Gom differences
3 Type differences
Michel nr 845
Michel nr 846
Michel nr 847
Other numbers :
Michel 934-938, 1080, 1331, 1540 and 1689 all in Buchdruck (Bdr)
Michel 968-969, 1087-1088, 1481-1482 StichTiefdruck (StTdr) (Bigger format)
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StTdr = Stichtiefdruck (engraved)
Just to avoid confusion.
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"StTdr = Stichtiefdruck (engraved)
Just to avoid confusion.
"
Oops, thanks for the remark. Post is now corrected
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Wading through my DDR collection and making good progress putting stamps into albums. Currently doing the 5-Year Plan Definitives. Seemed daunting at first but then I figured out the strategy for what goes where. I am left with a couple minor issues:
1) The 1957-58 5pf (SC#330) is emerald and has an imprint (Gruener/Wolf). But so too does the 1953-54 version (SC#188). So how do you tell the difference (hopefully it's not just a watermark!!!)
2) I have the 5pf emerald Mariner and and 10pf blue-green Machinists - both without an imprint, and I can't figure out where they belong (they both have shading lines but can't be #188 and #191 from 1953-54 as those issues have the imprints).
Most Important Question: Are the Scott prices for Mint for real?
Out of my couple hundred 5-Year Plan stamps the majority appear to be CTO and a couple handfuls look to be postally used - and all are listed as minimum CV. But I found an envelope of a couple dozen primarily MNH with a few MH. The catalogue values for some that I have MNH are:
#198 30pf CV $8.00
#200 40pf CV $10.00
#230 50pf CV $6.25
Why are the the MNH CVs so high (based on the number I have found they certainly can't be hard to find in that condition)? Do retail prices reflect these high valuations?
Many thanks for answers to any/all of the questions above.
Cheers, Dave.
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09:11:09pm
re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
It would have been better if you had posted the images of the stamps.
I tried to find the correspondence no. Scott with no. Michel that I use.
My answers are:
1. Just watermark
2.Scott # 476.477
3. If the MNH stamps are like these, the catalog value is 0.3 Euro each.
Login to Like
this post
re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
As you know, this is a definitive series, and as a rule, such stamps are just used for postage in large numbers, while comparatively few remain unused in collectors' albums. They are considered just too "common" which leads to the paradoxical situation that some unused definitives now command higher prices than some unused commemoratives.
If you don't mind converting from Michel to Scott numbers, there is a useful resource in German. It is a one-page schematic which helps to tell one issue from the other:
Fünfjahrplan-Navigator
A more detailed explanation of the background of this series (in German) is given on pp. 15 ff. of this publication:
Post für Dich August-Oktober 2003
(publications by Junge Briefmarkenfreunde in Berlin und Brandenburg)
Martin
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06:20:41am
re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
Thanks Martin for this interesting information.
I used the table from cat.Michel with the subsequent verification after no.Michel.
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08:25:30am
re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
Dave.
A few possible resources. Perhaps already known to SOR member, but felt worth mentioning.
First is an article entitled "Varieties and types of postage stamps of the German Democratic Republic; the Five-Year Plan (1953/59)".
Link: worldstampproject.org/gdr-five-year-plan-varieties-postage-stamps
Second, a quick reference identification matrix compiled by SOR member Rod from Western Australia. Don't have a link for this, but perhaps Rod would consider reposting.
Third, believe the late Jay Carrigan authored some material on the subject. (Believe his "jaxpex" site is no long active.) So try Googling.
Interesting collecting area. Lots of variety. Have fun.
Jim
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re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
Maybe reading this post helps you too.............
Fünf jahre plan briefmarken / Five year plans stamps
And rich???
1953 serie 1 with the common watermarks MNH 150 euros.
1953 serie 2 with the common watermarks MNH 250 euros.
1954 serie with new values MNH 32 euros.
1955 serie MNH 40 euros.
1957 serie MNH 16 euros for the A serie and 3 euros for the B serie.
So, come on.....
"
1) The 1957-58 5pf (SC#330) is emerald and has an imprint (Gruener/Wolf). But so too does the 1953-54 version (SC#188). So how do you tell the difference (hopefully it's not just a watermark!!!)"
Well in most cases it is......
"
2) I have the 5pf emerald Mariner and and 10pf blue-green Machinists - both without an imprint, and I can't figure out where they belong (they both have shading lines but can't be #188 and #191 from 1953-54 as those issues have the imprints)"
I Think your 10 pfg is from 1959 and your 10 pfg from 1958.
But just what Gerom said in an ealier post :
Scan those stamps and place them here so we can see what you are talking about.
Now we are only guessing..........
Login to Like
this post
re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
Thanks for the responses gang, very helpful (in particular Jim's "worldstampproject" link). One thing that answered some questions was discovering there was a redesign of the series in 1959-60. Unfortunately, I had missed printing that sheet from my Steiner pages!
Apologies for not sharing a scan and being delayed getting back to the topic. My wife's school (in fact all schools here) are in total chaos with the pandemic - and her father (84 but still insisting on volunteering at a school breakfast program for kids) just tested positive!
Here's the scan of the 5pf emerald "female mariner" and four variations I've found:
1) Shading in lines, perf 13x12.5, Gruener/Wolf imprint at the bottom, darker colour with less definition (look at the face) than #2.
2) Shading in lines, perf 14, no imprint, lighter colouring with more definition than #1.
3) Shading in fine dots, perf 13x12.5, no imprint, darker colour with less definition (look at the shoulders and hair) than #4.
4) Shading in fine dots, perf 13x12.5, no imprint, lighter colouring with more definition than #3.
The 10pf issues are in disarray, so I can't do any scans - I'm hoping comments on these will lead me to the conclusions on identifying other values.
Many thanks for the feedback, Dave.
P.S. Don't know how much a "Euro" is worth, but my personal threshold for declaring myself rich is exceedingly low...and I have since discovered (see opening line) that all the Mint stamps are invariably minimum CV 1959-60 issues. But I'm still looking for the big windfall!!!
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re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
Thanks for the scans :
All stamps have the "A" in the word "demokratische" under the "E" of the word "deutsche"
I can not give you SCOTT numbers so my catalognumbers are those that MICHEL mentions.
No 1 : Buchdruck (letterpress), 2nd Edition -> Michel Nr 406x and you can have 3 watermarks here X-I, X-II or Y-1
No 2 : Buchdruck (letterpress), 5th edition or later, Perf 14 -> Michel Nr 577B
No 3 : Offsetdruck (offset printing), 1st edition -> Michel Nr 363 and you can have 2 watermarks here X-I or X-II, because the cancelation is a quater-part of a circle and the "A" is under the "E" it is a Nachdruck
No 4 : Offsetdruck (offset printing), 1st edition -> Michel Nr 363 and you can have 2 watermarks here X-I or X-II, because the cancelation is a quarter-part of a circle and the "A" is under the "E" it is a Nachdruck
So 3 and 4 are the same stamp but maybe with 2 different watermarks.
So you have one more thing to do : Check the watermarks
For the watermarks see my earlier post with the link : Fünf jahre plan briefmarken / Five year plans stamps.
GDR stamps are sometimes difficult to identify, but that belongs to stamp collecting is not it?
P.S.
Thanks JMH67 for the link to the navigator. Usefull tips on one A4 sheet
P.P.S.
1 euro is now 1,22 US dollars
1 liter of unleaded gas will cost you 2 US dollars now, in the Netherlands
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11:54:18am
re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
Dave,
You can find on "www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=65524&sid=5b9fd3b7e04855c78abeffcb2ead3bf1&start=100" the stamps at a good resolution from the German Democratic Republic.
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re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
Hopefully my last question, but first a comment: I hate collecting watermark variations!!! Not such a good time for someone with Adult-ADD.
I have a bunch of the first issues, some like #1 with the bottom "A" between the top "H E" but most like #2 with the bottom "A" and top "E" stacked on top of each other.
The sites quoted note this - but without details (other than perhaps in German...) but Scott doesn't list them. Are they both variations from 1953 but printed on different dates? Can these be found in all values or just some of them (which ones)?
Last definitives to review are "Ulbricht" - hoping those are not as frustrating.
Cheers, Dave.
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re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
Offset (litho) printings with A under E (like your No. 2) are always "Nachdruck", i.e. printings from new plates with printed cancels for the collector market. IMHO they aren't real stamps at all, just vignettes. That's probably also the reason why your catalog does not list them.
Login to Like
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re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
No 1 : Offsetdruck (offset printing), 1st edition -> Michel Nr 367 and you can have 4 (!! sorry can not help it) watermarks here X-I, X-II, Y-I or Y-II, the cancelation seems to be ok (so not a mass cancelation) the "A" stands under the "HE" so NO Nachdruck.
No 2 : Offsetdruck (offset printing), 1st edition -> Michel Nr 367 and you can have 4 (!! sorry can not help it) watermarks here X-I, X-II, Y-I or Y-II, because the cancelation is a quarter-part of a circle and the "A" is under the "E" it is a Nachdruck
I told you before the GDR stamps are sometimes difficult to identify. (different watermarks, different paper, different perf's, different gom)
And about the Walter Ulbricht stamps I will warn you about those stamps :
3 different watermarks (3X, 3Y, 1)
2 different gom white-yellow and yellow-white to white ( x and y )
3 different types of printing (Bgdr = Bogendruck and Rdr = Rollenrotationsdruck and later StTdr = StichTiefdruck)
I do not now the english terms of these printings, maybe some else could be of assistance here)
The serie starts in 1961 and ends in 1972.
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re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
The Walter Ulbricht Stamps :
1 Watermarks differences
2 Gom differences
3 Type differences
Michel nr 845
Michel nr 846
Michel nr 847
Other numbers :
Michel 934-938, 1080, 1331, 1540 and 1689 all in Buchdruck (Bdr)
Michel 968-969, 1087-1088, 1481-1482 StichTiefdruck (StTdr) (Bigger format)
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re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
StTdr = Stichtiefdruck (engraved)
Just to avoid confusion.
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re: Germany/DDR 5-Year Plan Stamps - Mint - Am I Rich? And other questions...
"StTdr = Stichtiefdruck (engraved)
Just to avoid confusion.
"
Oops, thanks for the remark. Post is now corrected
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