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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

 

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foudutimbre
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08 Jan 2021
02:17:21pm

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I have posted a letter with tracking to a buyer from France to USA, I tracked my letter and see that it is still at the same place since more than 15 days, is it possible that happen when the mail is processed electronically???

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capn_ed
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08 Jan 2021
02:29:57pm
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I sent a package via USPS from my location (Missouri) to Arizona on December 15th, 2020. According to the USPS tracking site, it stayed in my local postal distribution center until the 3rd of January of this year; that's 19 days without moving. It's finally out for delivery today. So, yes in my experience, that's certainly possible nowadays.

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foudutimbre
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08 Jan 2021
02:45:03pm

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

It reassures me, thank you

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

08 Jan 2021
02:57:44pm

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

the sad answer is YES. USPS is proactively holding material upstream until there's more movement downstream.

It's a sad state of affairs, partially force majeure and partially man made (Odious DeJoy; apologies to Bait n Switchoven)



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vinman
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09 Jan 2021
06:42:38am
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I received a letter with stamps from an ebay seller postmarked Portland, OR October 1, 2020 and it finally appeared in Bellefonte, PA on December 31. I had to resend payment since the seller already gave me a refund.
I am sure this has to do with online shopping due to the lockdowns, Christmas and the number of Postal workers contracting the Chinese Virus.
Vince

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pigdoc

09 Jan 2021
09:32:21am
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

Same thing happened to me Vince, with that cover from LA that I posted here.

Sixty-six days on that one, transcontinental. First-class mail. Seller provided a refund, and to my surprise, the item showed up. So, I paid him again.

Again, I cannot remember ever NOT receiving an expected delivery from USPS. But, eventual delivery is still unexpected, until it happens.

At the moment, I have two other domestic shipments that are overdue, shipped Dec 11 and 17.
I have an international order, from Spain, of November 19 that has not yet arrived.

But, the all-time record was 5 covers that I bought from a seller in Argentina on March 29 that didn't arrive until October. Apparently, that was because all flights from Argentina had been suspended due to COVID.

No tracking on any of those 4 orders, so I have no idea, until they show up.

-Paul

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smaier
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Sally

09 Jan 2021
10:11:08am
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I ordered a package for Christmas at the end of November. Was issued a tracking number immediately with information that it would be delivered in 6 days.

6 days later, the tracking information said the same thing. Then 2 days after that, it was updated to be delivered in 5 days. It appeared to still be in the post office in the city where it was to be shipped from.

I asked at my local post office, and the postal clerk just laughed. She said there were delays due to the high volumes of stuff being mailed but what likely happened here was that the seller immediately assigns the tracking number but doesn't actually ship the item until they have enough stuff to make a trip to the post office.

So while it appeared like it was shipped the same day, it really sat in the business for 8 days. When it was presented at the post office is when the updated information was registered. Still took 14 days to go from Michigan to Iowa but at least it arriived.


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pigdoc

09 Jan 2021
10:36:12am
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

When I applied a similar strategy, the postal clerk held up her hand ("Talk to the hand"), and told me to initiate a missing mail search. She also said, "We don't leave items lying around." My reply, "Well, it's lying around SOMEWHERE!"

Here's where you do that (it's not at the main usps.com website):
Missing Mail

I did it for another (valuable) order that had a tracking number, and my search was accepted (there are criteria), but nothing whatsoever happened after that. Then, about 10 days later, the shipment showed up, so I cancelled the search. I seriously doubt that anyone wandered around the post office looking for my item!

From the tracking info, I could tell that the order was stalled at a distribution center about 50 miles from my delivery location, and I was contemplating going to that PO and asking them to hand it over. I also considered approaching the stamp dealers in the area (Phil Bansner, for one) with an image and asking them to watch for a fencer. The envelope was stamped INSURED in red ink. To me, that's like painting a target on it. I was certain that someone in the postal service had filched it. Nope.

Tracking numbers are not very useful as a remedy, but at least you know if the sender actually shipped the item. And, the tracking number may actually be a mild deterrent to devious postal service employees, especially at smaller locations, with fewer employees.

-Paul

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joshtanski
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09 Jan 2021
02:48:44pm
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

This is my take on it - I had some late Christmas deliveries I was trying to get to the bottom of - the Rochester, NY processing center was overwhelmed even after hiring 500 temps. I guess UPS and Fedex were overwhelmed too but they can refuse new items whereas USPS is not allowed to so they also got USP/Fedex overflow.

Anyway - if they have warehouses full of unprocessed pallets and bins of mails, they cannot stop processing just to go look for one person's missing package (how are they going to dig thru a bin of 1000's for a specific item without handling what's on top?), they can only keep plugging away at the backlog.

Josh

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

09 Jan 2021
03:05:46pm

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

please also note that a post mark, unless it's a hand stamp, is meaningless. it tells you when a thing was PROCESSED not when it was MAILED. Hand stamps document the exchange between sender and PO; spray documents when a BMF got to it. My sister mailed things on 12.2; it was processed on 12.15. Processing seldom happens at the originating PO but at BMF that handle mail from many stations. it is the machinery of those stations that has been in the news in the run up to the elections.

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snowy12
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10 Jan 2021
07:32:45am

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I too have had to refund sellers after items seemed to have disappeared.Then finally arrived But one I paid for in june last year from Argentina I am still waiting for and also one from The Netherlands Antilles.thats a couple of months overdue.
Brian

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uboatnut

10 Jan 2021
01:56:12pm
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I am still waiting for a REGISTERED envelope sent from a New York post office to Portland Oregon on Oct 01. The tracking shows a manual scan when it was received at the post office on Oct 01, but the last scan (a system-generated scan, not a manual scan) was Oct 06. Nothing since then.Hurry Up

The seller has refunded my money and filed a claim for the insured value, but was denied by USPS. He's getting his lawyer involved as the value of the claim is rather large.

There are only three reasons for denying a USPS insurance claim:
1. The item was not lost (really? after three months of tracking inactivity?)
2. The item was not insured (he has the paid USPS receipt)
3. The value of the loss was not proven. (he has scans of what was in it along with the Scott catalogue values and the invoice I paid)

And folks complain about the poor performance of the Royal Mail, Canada Post, and Australia Post.Rolling On The Floor Laughing

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

10 Jan 2021
03:09:01pm

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

"3. The value of the loss was not proven. (he has scans of what was in it along with the Scott catalogue values)"



Royal Mail here demands that the sender proves the value(s) of the item(s) they send,

ie an invoice or a receipt for the goods that the seller purchased before selling them.

eg the seller bought 4 first day covers for £1 he sold them to a buyer for £3

The Seller can only claim £1 as that is what he paid for the goods. If the seller cannot produce a receipt or a receipted invoice for the 4 first day covers then he won't even get a £1.

Royal mail will not accept Catalogue values they are as good as a chocolate teapot

Most people assume that sellers can claim back every penny of the sale that goes missing

They cannot


The only thing the seller can claim is the postage he paid for sending it to the buyer as long as he has a Proof of postage from the post office.

Most people think that getting things "registered" protects both sides of a transaction.

It does not!


A lot of sellers loathe "large" value sales as you only have to lose one and it takes the "profit" from the next two or three "large" value sales.
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uboatnut

10 Jan 2021
03:43:31pm
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

Respectfully, that defies logic. Even as mismanaged as the USPS is, I'm hoping they're smarter than that.Silly

The value of the item SHOULD BE whatever the buyer paid for it, assuming the seller also purchased and paid for at least that much insurance. Any difference between what a seller paid for an item vs. what they sold it for should not part of the equation; you cannot insure a profit. How many folks keep every invoice they received over the years, and what about trades and show sales where there ARE no invoices?

And since the seller has no control over what happens to the item once the post office receives it, any risk of deliberate insurance fraud for missing items should be miniscule.

That said, private insurance beats that of the USPS any day. Members of the APS (American Philatelic Society) can purchase insurance through Hugh Woods Inc. that covers not only their collection but also any philatelic items they ship to someone else.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

10 Jan 2021
07:37:59pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

"Respectfully, that defies logic."



Who ever thought that Royal Mail was logical?

From Royal Mails Website:-

Where an item is lost or damaged beyond repair then it is the amount it cost the customer(ie the Sender) to acquire, purchase or manufacture the item subject to adjustment to take account of condition, age and depreciation. Where an item is damaged it is the cost of repair. No additional payment will be made for the reduced value of the repaired item.

“evidence of posting”

Original online postage certificate of posting validated at a Post Office® branch;


The following is from the USPS Website

Proof of Value

Proof of value is the cost or value of an item when it was mailed. Any of these can be used to show proof of value:

Sales receipt
Paid invoice or paid bill of sale
Statement of value and/or estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer
Credit card billing statement
Receipt of costs incurred for reconstruction of non-negotiable documents
Printouts of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed


I hope the seller gets all his money but I doubt it!
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uboatnut

10 Jan 2021
11:12:12pm
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

In that case, perhaps the BUYER should pay the postage and insurance costs (which is often the case), not the seller. The SELLER should not offer free shipping, and would act as the buyer's shipping agent.

The BUYER can then show the seller's invoice to prove what he (the buyer) paid to acquire the item as well as the postage and insurance costs paid to his shipping agent.

The buyer would be the one who would have to file any insurance claim for non-delivery.

Heck of a way to run a railroad.Thumbs Down and I don't know how many buyers would go for it - or if the postal authorities would accept it.

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youpiao
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19 Jan 2021
08:19:33pm
re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I recently received a parcel from a neighboring state. It came from less than 300 miles away. I got a notice from the postal service on a Monday, saying it was to be delivered to me on that day. When it did not arrive, I checked the tracking on it, and it said my parcel was delayed in delivery. It finally arrived, almost a week later.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

23 Jan 2021
04:40:57pm

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

Especially in areas hard hit by Covid, like the NYC Metro area and NJ, they are barely running the sorting centers. I have a relative who works in Trenton, NJ and they've had several employees die of Covid. Each time someone tests positive, those in contact with that person go on a 14 day furlough / quarantine. That's like whole departments / shifts! My relative has done that twice.

There is lots of OT offered, but few takers as those who do have to work there, want to lower their time exposure in the building. So stuff is sitting...

Fortunately my relative has not tested positive, as he says... YET.


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cougar
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23 Jan 2021
08:05:23pm

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

"Especially in areas hard hit by Covid, like the NYC Metro area and NJ, they are barely running the sorting centers. "



I did not know that, unfortunately, and when two consecutive purchases from NY did not reach me in 2 months I made the wrong assumption the seller did not ship! What a disaster this pandemic is for just about everything. The only good part is the lower carbon emissions.
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foudutimbre
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26 Jan 2021
03:55:57am

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

Good news, it arived two few das ago Applause


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foudutimbre

08 Jan 2021
02:17:21pm

Auctions - Approvals

I have posted a letter with tracking to a buyer from France to USA, I tracked my letter and see that it is still at the same place since more than 15 days, is it possible that happen when the mail is processed electronically???

Image Not Found

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capn_ed

08 Jan 2021
02:29:57pm

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I sent a package via USPS from my location (Missouri) to Arizona on December 15th, 2020. According to the USPS tracking site, it stayed in my local postal distribution center until the 3rd of January of this year; that's 19 days without moving. It's finally out for delivery today. So, yes in my experience, that's certainly possible nowadays.

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foudutimbre

08 Jan 2021
02:45:03pm

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

It reassures me, thank you

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
08 Jan 2021
02:57:44pm

Auctions

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

the sad answer is YES. USPS is proactively holding material upstream until there's more movement downstream.

It's a sad state of affairs, partially force majeure and partially man made (Odious DeJoy; apologies to Bait n Switchoven)



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vinman

09 Jan 2021
06:42:38am

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I received a letter with stamps from an ebay seller postmarked Portland, OR October 1, 2020 and it finally appeared in Bellefonte, PA on December 31. I had to resend payment since the seller already gave me a refund.
I am sure this has to do with online shopping due to the lockdowns, Christmas and the number of Postal workers contracting the Chinese Virus.
Vince

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pigdoc

09 Jan 2021
09:32:21am

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

Same thing happened to me Vince, with that cover from LA that I posted here.

Sixty-six days on that one, transcontinental. First-class mail. Seller provided a refund, and to my surprise, the item showed up. So, I paid him again.

Again, I cannot remember ever NOT receiving an expected delivery from USPS. But, eventual delivery is still unexpected, until it happens.

At the moment, I have two other domestic shipments that are overdue, shipped Dec 11 and 17.
I have an international order, from Spain, of November 19 that has not yet arrived.

But, the all-time record was 5 covers that I bought from a seller in Argentina on March 29 that didn't arrive until October. Apparently, that was because all flights from Argentina had been suspended due to COVID.

No tracking on any of those 4 orders, so I have no idea, until they show up.

-Paul

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smaier

Sally
09 Jan 2021
10:11:08am

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I ordered a package for Christmas at the end of November. Was issued a tracking number immediately with information that it would be delivered in 6 days.

6 days later, the tracking information said the same thing. Then 2 days after that, it was updated to be delivered in 5 days. It appeared to still be in the post office in the city where it was to be shipped from.

I asked at my local post office, and the postal clerk just laughed. She said there were delays due to the high volumes of stuff being mailed but what likely happened here was that the seller immediately assigns the tracking number but doesn't actually ship the item until they have enough stuff to make a trip to the post office.

So while it appeared like it was shipped the same day, it really sat in the business for 8 days. When it was presented at the post office is when the updated information was registered. Still took 14 days to go from Michigan to Iowa but at least it arriived.


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pigdoc

09 Jan 2021
10:36:12am

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

When I applied a similar strategy, the postal clerk held up her hand ("Talk to the hand"), and told me to initiate a missing mail search. She also said, "We don't leave items lying around." My reply, "Well, it's lying around SOMEWHERE!"

Here's where you do that (it's not at the main usps.com website):
Missing Mail

I did it for another (valuable) order that had a tracking number, and my search was accepted (there are criteria), but nothing whatsoever happened after that. Then, about 10 days later, the shipment showed up, so I cancelled the search. I seriously doubt that anyone wandered around the post office looking for my item!

From the tracking info, I could tell that the order was stalled at a distribution center about 50 miles from my delivery location, and I was contemplating going to that PO and asking them to hand it over. I also considered approaching the stamp dealers in the area (Phil Bansner, for one) with an image and asking them to watch for a fencer. The envelope was stamped INSURED in red ink. To me, that's like painting a target on it. I was certain that someone in the postal service had filched it. Nope.

Tracking numbers are not very useful as a remedy, but at least you know if the sender actually shipped the item. And, the tracking number may actually be a mild deterrent to devious postal service employees, especially at smaller locations, with fewer employees.

-Paul

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joshtanski

09 Jan 2021
02:48:44pm

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

This is my take on it - I had some late Christmas deliveries I was trying to get to the bottom of - the Rochester, NY processing center was overwhelmed even after hiring 500 temps. I guess UPS and Fedex were overwhelmed too but they can refuse new items whereas USPS is not allowed to so they also got USP/Fedex overflow.

Anyway - if they have warehouses full of unprocessed pallets and bins of mails, they cannot stop processing just to go look for one person's missing package (how are they going to dig thru a bin of 1000's for a specific item without handling what's on top?), they can only keep plugging away at the backlog.

Josh

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
09 Jan 2021
03:05:46pm

Auctions

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

please also note that a post mark, unless it's a hand stamp, is meaningless. it tells you when a thing was PROCESSED not when it was MAILED. Hand stamps document the exchange between sender and PO; spray documents when a BMF got to it. My sister mailed things on 12.2; it was processed on 12.15. Processing seldom happens at the originating PO but at BMF that handle mail from many stations. it is the machinery of those stations that has been in the news in the run up to the elections.

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snowy12

10 Jan 2021
07:32:45am

Auctions

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I too have had to refund sellers after items seemed to have disappeared.Then finally arrived But one I paid for in june last year from Argentina I am still waiting for and also one from The Netherlands Antilles.thats a couple of months overdue.
Brian

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uboatnut

10 Jan 2021
01:56:12pm

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I am still waiting for a REGISTERED envelope sent from a New York post office to Portland Oregon on Oct 01. The tracking shows a manual scan when it was received at the post office on Oct 01, but the last scan (a system-generated scan, not a manual scan) was Oct 06. Nothing since then.Hurry Up

The seller has refunded my money and filed a claim for the insured value, but was denied by USPS. He's getting his lawyer involved as the value of the claim is rather large.

There are only three reasons for denying a USPS insurance claim:
1. The item was not lost (really? after three months of tracking inactivity?)
2. The item was not insured (he has the paid USPS receipt)
3. The value of the loss was not proven. (he has scans of what was in it along with the Scott catalogue values and the invoice I paid)

And folks complain about the poor performance of the Royal Mail, Canada Post, and Australia Post.Rolling On The Floor Laughing

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
10 Jan 2021
03:09:01pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

"3. The value of the loss was not proven. (he has scans of what was in it along with the Scott catalogue values)"



Royal Mail here demands that the sender proves the value(s) of the item(s) they send,

ie an invoice or a receipt for the goods that the seller purchased before selling them.

eg the seller bought 4 first day covers for £1 he sold them to a buyer for £3

The Seller can only claim £1 as that is what he paid for the goods. If the seller cannot produce a receipt or a receipted invoice for the 4 first day covers then he won't even get a £1.

Royal mail will not accept Catalogue values they are as good as a chocolate teapot

Most people assume that sellers can claim back every penny of the sale that goes missing

They cannot


The only thing the seller can claim is the postage he paid for sending it to the buyer as long as he has a Proof of postage from the post office.

Most people think that getting things "registered" protects both sides of a transaction.

It does not!


A lot of sellers loathe "large" value sales as you only have to lose one and it takes the "profit" from the next two or three "large" value sales.
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"StayAlert.......Control The Virus.......Save Lives."
uboatnut

10 Jan 2021
03:43:31pm

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

Respectfully, that defies logic. Even as mismanaged as the USPS is, I'm hoping they're smarter than that.Silly

The value of the item SHOULD BE whatever the buyer paid for it, assuming the seller also purchased and paid for at least that much insurance. Any difference between what a seller paid for an item vs. what they sold it for should not part of the equation; you cannot insure a profit. How many folks keep every invoice they received over the years, and what about trades and show sales where there ARE no invoices?

And since the seller has no control over what happens to the item once the post office receives it, any risk of deliberate insurance fraud for missing items should be miniscule.

That said, private insurance beats that of the USPS any day. Members of the APS (American Philatelic Society) can purchase insurance through Hugh Woods Inc. that covers not only their collection but also any philatelic items they ship to someone else.

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
10 Jan 2021
07:37:59pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

"Respectfully, that defies logic."



Who ever thought that Royal Mail was logical?

From Royal Mails Website:-

Where an item is lost or damaged beyond repair then it is the amount it cost the customer(ie the Sender) to acquire, purchase or manufacture the item subject to adjustment to take account of condition, age and depreciation. Where an item is damaged it is the cost of repair. No additional payment will be made for the reduced value of the repaired item.

“evidence of posting”

Original online postage certificate of posting validated at a Post Office® branch;


The following is from the USPS Website

Proof of Value

Proof of value is the cost or value of an item when it was mailed. Any of these can be used to show proof of value:

Sales receipt
Paid invoice or paid bill of sale
Statement of value and/or estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer
Credit card billing statement
Receipt of costs incurred for reconstruction of non-negotiable documents
Printouts of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed


I hope the seller gets all his money but I doubt it!
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uboatnut

10 Jan 2021
11:12:12pm

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

In that case, perhaps the BUYER should pay the postage and insurance costs (which is often the case), not the seller. The SELLER should not offer free shipping, and would act as the buyer's shipping agent.

The BUYER can then show the seller's invoice to prove what he (the buyer) paid to acquire the item as well as the postage and insurance costs paid to his shipping agent.

The buyer would be the one who would have to file any insurance claim for non-delivery.

Heck of a way to run a railroad.Thumbs Down and I don't know how many buyers would go for it - or if the postal authorities would accept it.

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youpiao

19 Jan 2021
08:19:33pm

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

I recently received a parcel from a neighboring state. It came from less than 300 miles away. I got a notice from the postal service on a Monday, saying it was to be delivered to me on that day. When it did not arrive, I checked the tracking on it, and it said my parcel was delayed in delivery. It finally arrived, almost a week later.

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
23 Jan 2021
04:40:57pm

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re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

Especially in areas hard hit by Covid, like the NYC Metro area and NJ, they are barely running the sorting centers. I have a relative who works in Trenton, NJ and they've had several employees die of Covid. Each time someone tests positive, those in contact with that person go on a 14 day furlough / quarantine. That's like whole departments / shifts! My relative has done that twice.

There is lots of OT offered, but few takers as those who do have to work there, want to lower their time exposure in the building. So stuff is sitting...

Fortunately my relative has not tested positive, as he says... YET.


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cougar

23 Jan 2021
08:05:23pm

Approvals

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

"Especially in areas hard hit by Covid, like the NYC Metro area and NJ, they are barely running the sorting centers. "



I did not know that, unfortunately, and when two consecutive purchases from NY did not reach me in 2 months I made the wrong assumption the seller did not ship! What a disaster this pandemic is for just about everything. The only good part is the lower carbon emissions.
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foudutimbre

26 Jan 2021
03:55:57am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Is it possible that cover stay at same transit post for more 17 days

Good news, it arived two few das ago Applause


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