Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Page 60.3 for 1960-61 has spaces for 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40pf under a heading which I translate as Fluorescent paper.
Beneath these, under the title Liegendes Wasserzeichen, there are spaces for 1, 5, 8, 10, 20pf.
My problem comes with Scott (2014) stating that the Fluorescent stamps are 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, 25pf, no mention of the 30 and 40.
The original 1954-60 issue had watermark 295 for Scott; Michel 4.
Is the 1960-61 issue of Fluorescent watermarked 295?
Are the other 5 watermarked Scott 304; Michel 5?
Would someone please clarify this for me as I am not getting much, if any, reaction with UV, although that could just be that all the stamps I have are the original series.
Ps, stand by for a small wants list.
Edit. Just seen the note under Scott 755-61 that the 30 and 40 were issued on both papers. with w/mk 304.
The thought occurs, does the liegendes wasserzeichen perhaps mean Coil stamps?
Second edit, translation sites seem to translate the LW as Lying watermarks, so perhaps we would say diagonal, which would seem right to that which I have observed.
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"Liegendes Wasserzeichen" = "sideways watermark", i.e. 90 degrees from the normal "standing" position (conspcious by the letters, and by the steeper angle of the lines). Stamps with sideways watermarks were AFAIK issued in booklets.
The Heuss stamps in fluorescent paper are fairly rare, they were basically only issued as sort of a "proof of concept" to show that the sorting machinery based on luminescence worked.
-jmh
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Thanks Martin, looking on websites seems they are pretty pricey mint and probably worse used. Some sellers were saying it was laid paper but that does not ring true. A sideways watermark makes more sense.
Do you know which watermark was used?
Thanks for the information. Think I'll stop looking amongst my spares.
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It's watermark "BP and zigzag lines" (Wz. 4 in Michel, only there you can find positional variants) on the earlier and "DBP around cross flowers" (Wz. 5 in Michel) on the later series (my translations). The watermarks are in general pretty easy to detect.
The luminescent variants of the second series (30 and 40 Pf only) were sold in 1960 in and around Darmstadt and were probably mostly used there. The 30 Pf seems fairly rare, the 40 Pf not so much, but still commands Michel prices in the double Euro figures. No information in my catalog as to where the luminescent variants of the 5, 7, 10, 15, and 20 Pf of the first series were sold, prices vary between single and double figures. I guess, however, that owing to their popularity at home very few "Heuss lumogen" made it abroad anyway. Even I, living in Germany, haven't found any yet.
-jmh
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Thanks Martin for that information.
As you say the watermarks are fairly easy to see, often without fluid, so I will sort them that way. I have an old Michel catalogue from 1994/5 but it is in German and that's not a language I ever learned. However I do use it as it is better than Scott for illustrations and the semi-postals are in the right place, by year of issue amongst the general ones.
Thanks again for your help.
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All the watermarks from Germany you can find here :
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=24353#172739
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Heuss serie I
Heuss serie II
Particularities
As with all stamps that are printed in rolls and sheets, horizontal pairs and marginal pieces of the stamps form a special collection area because they can be used to prove that the stamps come from sheets. Horizontal pairs and edge pieces are sometimes considerably more expensive.
It was only during the production period that the Federal Post Office introduced counting numbers on the back of every fifth stamp of stamp rolls. Reel-stamp-collectors therefore need penalty strips from some of the Heuss brands in order to prove the origin of the reel.
In 1960 the Bundespost printed some values in the series for the first time on fluorescent paper. These values - six stamps from Heuss (I) and two stamps from Heuss (II) - are known among collectors as Heuss lumogen based on the dye used and are often offered as a combination. The background to this are attempts by the Central Post Office in Darmstadt to automate letter processing, which is why these stamps were mainly issued in the greater Darmstadt area.
Heuss Lumogen serie
Paper with the watermark BP and zigzag lines was used to print Heuss (I). The watermark can be mirror-inverted and in all possible positions, so that there are a total of eight different options for the position of the watermark. The pfennig values are of type “4 W” (some values are also available with “4Y”), and market values of “4X”. A different watermark was used for Heuss (II), there are no variations here.
The mint never hinged Heuss (I) value at 50 Pf. Belongs to the most valuable regular issues of the Federal Post Office, only some of the Posthorn stamps are more expensive. All stamps come with new gumming, more expensive values should always be checked.
The total circulation of all stamps was around 20 billion items (including one billion Heuss (II) stamps
Source : Wikipedia
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Thanks Hockey Hut, would you happen to know which UV the Flourescence shows up in, Short or Long wave.
I have only 3 examples of the 50pf grey, and they are all used. I see that the used catalogues for peanuts as opposed to mint, any idea why?
Much appreciate your answer.
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Found this Mi.186y a few years back in some kiloware. Lights up nice under the UV. Light cancelation Darmstadt as HockeyNut mentions.
"would you happen to know which UV the Flourescence shows up in, Short or Long wave."
Longwave,
366 nm.
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Thanks Opa, I'll give them another try after I've removed the earlier dated ones, where they are readable.
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Ok like the proverbial idiot I decided to sort out the spaces in a German album. It is a Leuchtturm pre mounted with clear mounts.
Page 60.3 for 1960-61 has spaces for 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40pf under a heading which I translate as Fluorescent paper.
Beneath these, under the title Liegendes Wasserzeichen, there are spaces for 1, 5, 8, 10, 20pf.
My problem comes with Scott (2014) stating that the Fluorescent stamps are 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, 25pf, no mention of the 30 and 40.
The original 1954-60 issue had watermark 295 for Scott; Michel 4.
Is the 1960-61 issue of Fluorescent watermarked 295?
Are the other 5 watermarked Scott 304; Michel 5?
Would someone please clarify this for me as I am not getting much, if any, reaction with UV, although that could just be that all the stamps I have are the original series.
Ps, stand by for a small wants list.
Edit. Just seen the note under Scott 755-61 that the 30 and 40 were issued on both papers. with w/mk 304.
The thought occurs, does the liegendes wasserzeichen perhaps mean Coil stamps?
Second edit, translation sites seem to translate the LW as Lying watermarks, so perhaps we would say diagonal, which would seem right to that which I have observed.
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re: Theodor Heuss series
"Liegendes Wasserzeichen" = "sideways watermark", i.e. 90 degrees from the normal "standing" position (conspcious by the letters, and by the steeper angle of the lines). Stamps with sideways watermarks were AFAIK issued in booklets.
The Heuss stamps in fluorescent paper are fairly rare, they were basically only issued as sort of a "proof of concept" to show that the sorting machinery based on luminescence worked.
-jmh
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like this post.
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re: Theodor Heuss series
Thanks Martin, looking on websites seems they are pretty pricey mint and probably worse used. Some sellers were saying it was laid paper but that does not ring true. A sideways watermark makes more sense.
Do you know which watermark was used?
Thanks for the information. Think I'll stop looking amongst my spares.
Login to Like
this post
re: Theodor Heuss series
It's watermark "BP and zigzag lines" (Wz. 4 in Michel, only there you can find positional variants) on the earlier and "DBP around cross flowers" (Wz. 5 in Michel) on the later series (my translations). The watermarks are in general pretty easy to detect.
The luminescent variants of the second series (30 and 40 Pf only) were sold in 1960 in and around Darmstadt and were probably mostly used there. The 30 Pf seems fairly rare, the 40 Pf not so much, but still commands Michel prices in the double Euro figures. No information in my catalog as to where the luminescent variants of the 5, 7, 10, 15, and 20 Pf of the first series were sold, prices vary between single and double figures. I guess, however, that owing to their popularity at home very few "Heuss lumogen" made it abroad anyway. Even I, living in Germany, haven't found any yet.
-jmh
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re: Theodor Heuss series
Thanks Martin for that information.
As you say the watermarks are fairly easy to see, often without fluid, so I will sort them that way. I have an old Michel catalogue from 1994/5 but it is in German and that's not a language I ever learned. However I do use it as it is better than Scott for illustrations and the semi-postals are in the right place, by year of issue amongst the general ones.
Thanks again for your help.
Login to Like
this post
re: Theodor Heuss series
All the watermarks from Germany you can find here :
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=24353#172739
Login to Like
this post
re: Theodor Heuss series
Heuss serie I
Heuss serie II
Particularities
As with all stamps that are printed in rolls and sheets, horizontal pairs and marginal pieces of the stamps form a special collection area because they can be used to prove that the stamps come from sheets. Horizontal pairs and edge pieces are sometimes considerably more expensive.
It was only during the production period that the Federal Post Office introduced counting numbers on the back of every fifth stamp of stamp rolls. Reel-stamp-collectors therefore need penalty strips from some of the Heuss brands in order to prove the origin of the reel.
In 1960 the Bundespost printed some values in the series for the first time on fluorescent paper. These values - six stamps from Heuss (I) and two stamps from Heuss (II) - are known among collectors as Heuss lumogen based on the dye used and are often offered as a combination. The background to this are attempts by the Central Post Office in Darmstadt to automate letter processing, which is why these stamps were mainly issued in the greater Darmstadt area.
Heuss Lumogen serie
Paper with the watermark BP and zigzag lines was used to print Heuss (I). The watermark can be mirror-inverted and in all possible positions, so that there are a total of eight different options for the position of the watermark. The pfennig values are of type “4 W” (some values are also available with “4Y”), and market values of “4X”. A different watermark was used for Heuss (II), there are no variations here.
The mint never hinged Heuss (I) value at 50 Pf. Belongs to the most valuable regular issues of the Federal Post Office, only some of the Posthorn stamps are more expensive. All stamps come with new gumming, more expensive values should always be checked.
The total circulation of all stamps was around 20 billion items (including one billion Heuss (II) stamps
Source : Wikipedia
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re: Theodor Heuss series
Thanks Hockey Hut, would you happen to know which UV the Flourescence shows up in, Short or Long wave.
I have only 3 examples of the 50pf grey, and they are all used. I see that the used catalogues for peanuts as opposed to mint, any idea why?
Much appreciate your answer.
Login to Like
this post
re: Theodor Heuss series
Found this Mi.186y a few years back in some kiloware. Lights up nice under the UV. Light cancelation Darmstadt as HockeyNut mentions.
"would you happen to know which UV the Flourescence shows up in, Short or Long wave."
Longwave,
366 nm.
Login to Like
this post
re: Theodor Heuss series
Thanks Opa, I'll give them another try after I've removed the earlier dated ones, where they are readable.
Login to Like
this post