Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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The publisher of the Scott catalogues considers the numbering system its intellectual property and does not allow it being used for cross reference lists. They have often threatened with legal actions against those who do use the Scott numbers.
At least, that used to be the story.
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Catalog publishers are very aggressive with legal saber rattling if anyone, including hobbyists just trying to help other hobbyists, try to distribute any kind of cross reference. They claim that their numbering systems are copyrighted, a claim that is not supported by several US courts decisions, but the threats are often enough to intimidate. Copyright content has to meet a 'creativity' criteria and numbering systems have been held to not be a creative work, anyone who may want to apply a numbering system to a series of stamps, for example, would typically start with the number 1 and generally organize the numbering chronologically. There is nothing creative about a numbering system but it does not matter, publishers have figured out that they can easily strong-arm and scare people with legal threats.
Don
Edit: I have experience with this and can assure you that it is not a 'story'.
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Thanks- unfortunately this rookie mistake cost me a few $'s
Don, Thanks for your efforts here in the past I see several references to your attempted help for the collector.
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If you go to Colnect, all the stamps there list the various catalog numbers. Scott is not listed, but there is an equivalent called "SN" or Stamp Number that corresponds to Scott.
BUT - as the others have mentioned, there is no "list", only each stamp identified.
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Like Don, I too have drawn the ire of Amos publishing who threatened legal action because I hosted a few album pages with Scott numbers on my website.
Although, I also don't believe that a list of numbers can be copyrighted, and even though I am in Canada, I had no interest in getting involved in a potentially expensive lawsuit for what is essentially a hobby endeavour, so I complied and removed the relevant pages.
Being a relatively small site, I was surprised that it has even appeared on Amos's radar, so I can only assume that someone must have reported me.
Clive
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I wish I still had the link to it, but I read an article that talked about the legal brouhaha that erupted when an industrial parts company put out a parts catalogue utilizing the same part numbers as a rival company used for the same parts. The "copycat" company won the legal battle when the court ruled, basically, that attaching numbers to a part to identify them was not an act of intellectual creativity warranting copyright protection. The numbers were created to facilitate communications between two parties about a certain item, so one cannot complain when that communications system is used to communicate.
As Clive points out, though, good luck fighting that in a David and Goliath court case.
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Aftermarket auto parts are numbered in much the same way as youpiao describes the industrial catalog. Most of the "off-brands" or "store brands" use a numbering system identical or at least very similar to the major name brands to identify their products. It helps us to cross-reference the parts, and to all speak a "universal language" with technicians, customers, and other parts people.
Its a shame that Amos can't be satisfied with their (already elevated) place in the hobby. You don't see the people from Kleenex threatening to sue everyone who says they wiped their nose with a Kleenex when they actually used facial tissue.... or Q-Tips. Be glad your name is synonymous with something.
I do recall the people from Jell-O suing a crazy heavy metal band in the 90's over their use of the name "Green Jell-O", which they had to change to "Green JellY". They also added umlauts to the "Y".... because "METAL!"
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10:19:55pm
" .... You don't see the people from
Kleenex threatening to sue everyone
who says they wiped their nose with
a Kleenex when they actually used
facial tissue.... or Q-Tips. Be glad ...."
That is because they did not actively
and aggressively defend whatever copyright
they had or could have developed.
. Certain words, while initially denoting .
a specific product, became generic for a
type of product and thus in common usage.
Once the horse has departed the barn and
crossed the road, it is too late to regain
those intellectual property rights.
Thus, Amos fears the loss that would allow
anyone (everyone) to publish a worldwide,
country, or regional catalog using their
supposedly unique numbers, which might
be less expensive and more useful to, say,
a collector who was interested in Arabic
speaking nations around the Mediterranean
littoral Basin.
In fact, at one time Jacques Minkus published
both a Worldwide Catalog that in my opinion
was quite superior to Scott, but also a set
of Albums that I have used for over fifty
years.
After Minkus retired to a rest home in upstate
New York the business eventually passed into the
hands of Krause publishing and I believe they
really began to competed with Scott.
A lawsuit followed and I think Scott may have
felt it was about to lose its almost total
monopoly on the US catalog and stamp news market.
so a deal was struck to settle the lawsuits,
and Scott paid to buy out Krause's interest.
Scott never published another Minkus catalog or
as far as I can recall utilised the vast array
of philatelic knowledge that could be found in
said "Minkus Catalogs". I also think that also
ended the life of "Western Stamp Collector" once
a twice a week stamp newspaper, again far more
informative than Linn's Stamp news had become.
I still have and use the two volume 1972 (abt.)
set of Minkus Catalogs. Where as Scott will
identify a stamp as "A sailing Ship", or some
thing brief like that, almost every interesting
stamp of the era described in the Minkus volumes
will amplify that info with perhaps the ship's
name and why it deserves being shown on the stamp
i ir the first place.
I imagine had the MInkus Catalogs been maintained
they would exceed ten or fifteen volumes, but
the stamp world would be the richer for it.
"... Jacques Minkus (December 15, 1901 –
September 17, 1996) ..." RIP (Wikipedia
If anyone can add further color to this note,
please do.
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I never read that as part of the lawsuit that Scott (Amos) agreed to buy out Minkus.
Krause had put a cross reference between US Minkus and Scott numbers and Scott sued, As part of the settlement, Minkus could publish a separately available cross reference.
Later Scott approached Minkus to buy the Minkus albums. In the process, Minkus offered the "Stamp Collector" publication too and essentially Krause got out of the stamp related publications. I liked the "Stamp Collector" and sorry to see it go. My subscription was migrated to Scott Stamp Monthly.
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I recall buying both "Linn's Stamp News" and "Stamp Collector" at the local stamp and coin shop in Ottawa in the early 1990s. They coplimented each other.
David
Ottawa, Canada
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08:54:09am
" .... I never read that as part of the lawsuit
that Scott (Amos) agreed to buy out Minkus. ...."
Perhaps it was a coincidence, I was working from
memory.
Amos sued. They settled.
Amos suddenly, shortly thereafter, bought Krause's
stamp interests out. Was it a year or more longer?
Western Stamp Collector died, or as mentioned was
replaced by Scott Stamp Monthly.
I thought these events were related, either by the
black letter terms of the settlement or some side
agreement. But then, I was not in the room.
I also received both LSN and WSC, along with both
Global and a Canadian News magazine for for many
years but noticed that I was finished with Linn's
within a half hour or so, seldom picking the issue
up again, except to check the classified section
on occasion..
Western and Global both absorbed my interest for
hours over several days. So one year I dropped Linns,
preferring to latch on to expired issues brought to
the local stamp club and left for whomever wanted to
glance through them. It seemed that Linns paid more
attention to the US MNH market while WSC had a
greater depth of detailed worldwide articles, M,
MH, MNH or used. That may seem to be subjective,
but it is how I felt then.
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Bidding on stamps based on numbers only from lists has recently caused some issues. I heard these are somewhat secretive or protected info for some reason. Any background as to why?
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re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
The publisher of the Scott catalogues considers the numbering system its intellectual property and does not allow it being used for cross reference lists. They have often threatened with legal actions against those who do use the Scott numbers.
At least, that used to be the story.
Login to Like
this post
re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
Catalog publishers are very aggressive with legal saber rattling if anyone, including hobbyists just trying to help other hobbyists, try to distribute any kind of cross reference. They claim that their numbering systems are copyrighted, a claim that is not supported by several US courts decisions, but the threats are often enough to intimidate. Copyright content has to meet a 'creativity' criteria and numbering systems have been held to not be a creative work, anyone who may want to apply a numbering system to a series of stamps, for example, would typically start with the number 1 and generally organize the numbering chronologically. There is nothing creative about a numbering system but it does not matter, publishers have figured out that they can easily strong-arm and scare people with legal threats.
Don
Edit: I have experience with this and can assure you that it is not a 'story'.
Login to Like
this post
re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
Thanks- unfortunately this rookie mistake cost me a few $'s
Don, Thanks for your efforts here in the past I see several references to your attempted help for the collector.
Login to Like
this post
re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
If you go to Colnect, all the stamps there list the various catalog numbers. Scott is not listed, but there is an equivalent called "SN" or Stamp Number that corresponds to Scott.
BUT - as the others have mentioned, there is no "list", only each stamp identified.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
Like Don, I too have drawn the ire of Amos publishing who threatened legal action because I hosted a few album pages with Scott numbers on my website.
Although, I also don't believe that a list of numbers can be copyrighted, and even though I am in Canada, I had no interest in getting involved in a potentially expensive lawsuit for what is essentially a hobby endeavour, so I complied and removed the relevant pages.
Being a relatively small site, I was surprised that it has even appeared on Amos's radar, so I can only assume that someone must have reported me.
Clive
Login to Like
this post
re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
I wish I still had the link to it, but I read an article that talked about the legal brouhaha that erupted when an industrial parts company put out a parts catalogue utilizing the same part numbers as a rival company used for the same parts. The "copycat" company won the legal battle when the court ruled, basically, that attaching numbers to a part to identify them was not an act of intellectual creativity warranting copyright protection. The numbers were created to facilitate communications between two parties about a certain item, so one cannot complain when that communications system is used to communicate.
As Clive points out, though, good luck fighting that in a David and Goliath court case.
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re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
Aftermarket auto parts are numbered in much the same way as youpiao describes the industrial catalog. Most of the "off-brands" or "store brands" use a numbering system identical or at least very similar to the major name brands to identify their products. It helps us to cross-reference the parts, and to all speak a "universal language" with technicians, customers, and other parts people.
Its a shame that Amos can't be satisfied with their (already elevated) place in the hobby. You don't see the people from Kleenex threatening to sue everyone who says they wiped their nose with a Kleenex when they actually used facial tissue.... or Q-Tips. Be glad your name is synonymous with something.
I do recall the people from Jell-O suing a crazy heavy metal band in the 90's over their use of the name "Green Jell-O", which they had to change to "Green JellY". They also added umlauts to the "Y".... because "METAL!"
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
14 Feb 2021
10:19:55pm
re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
" .... You don't see the people from
Kleenex threatening to sue everyone
who says they wiped their nose with
a Kleenex when they actually used
facial tissue.... or Q-Tips. Be glad ...."
That is because they did not actively
and aggressively defend whatever copyright
they had or could have developed.
. Certain words, while initially denoting .
a specific product, became generic for a
type of product and thus in common usage.
Once the horse has departed the barn and
crossed the road, it is too late to regain
those intellectual property rights.
Thus, Amos fears the loss that would allow
anyone (everyone) to publish a worldwide,
country, or regional catalog using their
supposedly unique numbers, which might
be less expensive and more useful to, say,
a collector who was interested in Arabic
speaking nations around the Mediterranean
littoral Basin.
In fact, at one time Jacques Minkus published
both a Worldwide Catalog that in my opinion
was quite superior to Scott, but also a set
of Albums that I have used for over fifty
years.
After Minkus retired to a rest home in upstate
New York the business eventually passed into the
hands of Krause publishing and I believe they
really began to competed with Scott.
A lawsuit followed and I think Scott may have
felt it was about to lose its almost total
monopoly on the US catalog and stamp news market.
so a deal was struck to settle the lawsuits,
and Scott paid to buy out Krause's interest.
Scott never published another Minkus catalog or
as far as I can recall utilised the vast array
of philatelic knowledge that could be found in
said "Minkus Catalogs". I also think that also
ended the life of "Western Stamp Collector" once
a twice a week stamp newspaper, again far more
informative than Linn's Stamp news had become.
I still have and use the two volume 1972 (abt.)
set of Minkus Catalogs. Where as Scott will
identify a stamp as "A sailing Ship", or some
thing brief like that, almost every interesting
stamp of the era described in the Minkus volumes
will amplify that info with perhaps the ship's
name and why it deserves being shown on the stamp
i ir the first place.
I imagine had the MInkus Catalogs been maintained
they would exceed ten or fifteen volumes, but
the stamp world would be the richer for it.
"... Jacques Minkus (December 15, 1901 –
September 17, 1996) ..." RIP (Wikipedia
If anyone can add further color to this note,
please do.
2 Members
like this post.
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re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
I never read that as part of the lawsuit that Scott (Amos) agreed to buy out Minkus.
Krause had put a cross reference between US Minkus and Scott numbers and Scott sued, As part of the settlement, Minkus could publish a separately available cross reference.
Later Scott approached Minkus to buy the Minkus albums. In the process, Minkus offered the "Stamp Collector" publication too and essentially Krause got out of the stamp related publications. I liked the "Stamp Collector" and sorry to see it go. My subscription was migrated to Scott Stamp Monthly.
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re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
I recall buying both "Linn's Stamp News" and "Stamp Collector" at the local stamp and coin shop in Ottawa in the early 1990s. They coplimented each other.
David
Ottawa, Canada
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
16 Feb 2021
08:54:09am
re: Is there a Scott vs Yvert numbering cross referencing database?
" .... I never read that as part of the lawsuit
that Scott (Amos) agreed to buy out Minkus. ...."
Perhaps it was a coincidence, I was working from
memory.
Amos sued. They settled.
Amos suddenly, shortly thereafter, bought Krause's
stamp interests out. Was it a year or more longer?
Western Stamp Collector died, or as mentioned was
replaced by Scott Stamp Monthly.
I thought these events were related, either by the
black letter terms of the settlement or some side
agreement. But then, I was not in the room.
I also received both LSN and WSC, along with both
Global and a Canadian News magazine for for many
years but noticed that I was finished with Linn's
within a half hour or so, seldom picking the issue
up again, except to check the classified section
on occasion..
Western and Global both absorbed my interest for
hours over several days. So one year I dropped Linns,
preferring to latch on to expired issues brought to
the local stamp club and left for whomever wanted to
glance through them. It seemed that Linns paid more
attention to the US MNH market while WSC had a
greater depth of detailed worldwide articles, M,
MH, MNH or used. That may seem to be subjective,
but it is how I felt then.
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