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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Soaking Stamps from FDC's

 

Author
Postings
Boston_bob

25 Jan 2009
08:08:58am
Throwing caution to the wind, and risking the wrath of cover collectors, I would like to pose the following hypothetical question:

Let's say a collector had a FDC in close to pristine condition, unaddressed, bearing multiple copies of say 2 different $1.00 to $5.00(SCV)stamps, with perfect cachet and perfect cancel.

Let's also say that the collector does not have either of these stamps in their single stamp collection, probably wouldn't spend the money on acquiring these stamps for their collections, nor do they collect covers.

What would you advise?

I am looking for a reasonable discussion on this one, not simplistic answers such as sell it and buy the stamps, etc. etc.

Bob
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Parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

25 Jan 2009
09:05:39am
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

For me, I only collect postally used stamps so this would not be an option for me. But, if I were inclined to remove stamps from FDC's, it would depend on the cachet. I might remove the stamp from this fdc:
ArtcraftCachet

but I definitely would not for this FDC:
CollinsCachet.

The Artcraft Cacheted FDC would costs about $1.00 or even less where the early Collins FDC will cost you about $100.00.
Many people think that FDC's as the poor step-child of Stamp Collecting. All they see are the ArtCraft, ArtMaster, possibly House of Farnum Cachets which you can purchase for less than a dollar. There are so many different cachet makers out there and some of them are outstanding artists and make a limited amount of covers. Some cachet makers are extremely popular and FDC's with their cachets can go for much more than a dollar.

Bob

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Liz

25 Jan 2009
09:08:08am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I think "I" would put another page in my album and mount the complete cover in my collection.

I have been guilty of cutting the stamp off a FDC, soaking it and mounting in my album, but that was many, many years ago.

It brings to mind when I used to shudder and get so annoyed with my father. I would get on his case about hinging mint stamps that I had purchased for him. I can still remember my father back in the early 1960's saying, 'They are my stamps and I will do whatever I want with them!' That was the end of that discussion!

Would you like to borrow my scissors? :-)

Liz

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Parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

25 Jan 2009
09:16:02am
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I would also like to add, that while I don't consider myself a FDC collector per se. I do collect FDC's of stamps that were issued on my birthdate and the birthdates of my wife & children. I have created a little website (which hasn't been updated in quite a while)with some of the more interesting items. You have to click on the "First Day Covers" link. Then click on each cover to see the different covers for that issue.

http://home.comcast.net/~parkinlot/

Bob

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Saleem
Members Picture


25 Jan 2009
09:41:22am
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

Hi Boston Bob,
There is one more option - you can use Stamporama or any other Stamp forum and offer the FDC in exchange for a pristine used (or maybe mint) copy of the same stamp in exchange for the FDC. Maybe someone out there requires the FDC and have the extra stamp for exchange!
My presonal view is that you might be destroying a piece of postal history by cutting off the stamp from the FDC.
I started collecting India MNH and also used, in the beginning when I bought the stamps on first day of issue I also bought one stamp with selvedge attached and just moisten the selvedge to attach to an A4 paper and get the stamp first day cancelled at the P.O. this practice continued for about six months. Although I have a complete MNH post independence collection of India I am still hanging on to these six or so pages with each page featuring 4 to 5 stamps with first day cancels from 1977. You see a small folly at that time has turned out into a small piece of history with four/five different First Day cancelled stamps on a page.
Saleem

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Bobstamp
Members Picture


25 Jan 2009
10:19:58am
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I wouldn't clip, not necessarily because it would destroy the cover but because I prefer postally used stamps, preferably with CDS or other interesting cancellations. At the same time, FDC cancellations often are attractive and/or interesting in themselves, so I might clip and soak. There are really just too many variables to say I would always or never do this or that.

Saleem's suggestion to trade is ideal, assuming that the stamps are common. It's better to foster a relationship and make two collectors happy than to clip off a stamp and possibly later regret doing so.

Note to Bob Parkin: So, Bob, why don't you have a Canadian Inverted Seaway FDC in your collection? (Actually, there weren't any FDCs, but you could pick up a stamp for only several thousand dollars, assuming you could find one....)

Bob

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Parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

25 Jan 2009
10:58:34am
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

Bob -

If an Inverted Saint Lawrence Seaway were to be found on an FDC, that would be my Holy Grail. Currently my Holy Grail is Scott 573 $5.00 Head of Freedom Statue, Capitol Dome from the 1922 series. It was issued 3/20/1923, which is the birthdate of my daughter. That FDC last sold for around $25,000. The $2.00 stamp was issued the same day sold for around $15,000. A little out of my league. The good thing is that the cancel does not say "First Day of Issue" so you have to know the date. Perhaps one could be found in dealers stock. It would still probably cost you a couple hundred dollars anyway because that stamp is not found too often on cover.

Bob

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Heyralph
Members Picture


25 Jan 2009
11:11:27am
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I'm always a little reluctant to dismantle things, probably excessively so. It sounds like the FDC is attractive (pristine, near perfect cancel etc.) and that the stamps are desirable ($5 SCV), so if I owned it I'd be likely to keep it intact. I like the prior suggestion to add a page to your album to showcase the cover. Lately I've been starting to play with designing my own pages and moving in the direction of trying not to let notions like filling in all the appropriate places in an album dictate what I collect and how.

Ralph

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Bobstamp
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25 Jan 2009
11:26:50am
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

Another convert to homemade albums! Yay! I stopped "album stuffing" about 1985 when I was working on a Canada collection. I really liked most of the Canadian stamps issued prior to the early 1950s, but I dutifully carried on buying new issues and searching for everything I didn't have, until one day when I was faced with a glassine of the world's ugliest stamps -- the red postage dues that Canada issued in 1967. Why was I wasting my time and money on something that I didn't like?! Since then, I have collected only stamps that touch my soul in some way, or help to illustrate some point of history that interests me.

The tough thing about making your own pages is that it takes a lot of work, especially if you have the curse of perfectionism. In truth, I rarely make album pages as such any more, but prefer to exhibit. The exhibit themselves are de facto album pages. And once I have exhibited, I rarely look at them, because I'm working on another exhibit or two. As in so many things, the enjoyable thing is the process, not the object. Hunting for and finding a particular stamp or cover is, for me, the best part of collecting. Simply owning the item afterwards is nice, and vital to me, but not the best thing about our hobby.

Bob

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Boston_bob

25 Jan 2009
01:42:30pm
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

Wow, that was quite a bit of discussion. Good Stuff!

Ok, so here's the cover I was talking about. Oh yeah, there's one small detail that enters the equation: I collect U.S., China, Germany, etc. My better half is the WW collector. She wants the stamps, I don't want to destroy the cover.

Am I in a non-win situation?

This is a Ryukus un-circulated with 2-#27, 4-#28 from May 26, 1953.

Ryukyus.jpg

Thank you for your support,

Bob

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Teisler
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

25 Jan 2009
03:05:10pm

Auctions
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

There's three ways to answer the question: do you value the cover yourself; and do you care if you destroy something of value that you yourself don't value; and can your wife live stamps affixed to a cover if she gets the stamps?

As Bob P noted, not all FDCs are created equal. Some are common as dirt and just as interesting; others might have no value but have interest for one reason or another; and some clearly have value, assuming you find the right buyers (things' real value is always determined by what someone is willing to pay).

I often see Ryuku stamps for sale; i seldom see their covers, even FDCs. I tend to keep things about which I know little until I do, then can determine whether there might be a reason to save it intact.

I know a Ryuku collector and, if you want, can ask him if there's interest in the cover and would he think it wise to disembowl it.

David

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Boston_bob

26 Jan 2009
06:50:30am
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

David: Not being a cover collector, nor a Ryukyu enthusiast, I would welcome an opinion from your friend. Thanks for offering.

Bob

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Teisler
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

26 Jan 2009
11:44:19am

Auctions
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I talked to my Ryukyu-collecting friend and he identified that FDC as being something more than run-of-the-mill. He definitely thinks it should be kept intact.

David

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Roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 300 categories

26 Jan 2009
07:31:48pm
re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I agree. I think it's a $10-15 cover. If I saw it in the auction or on a dealer's table for $5, I'd grab it!

Roy

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Author/Postings
Boston_bob

25 Jan 2009
08:08:58am

Throwing caution to the wind, and risking the wrath of cover collectors, I would like to pose the following hypothetical question:

Let's say a collector had a FDC in close to pristine condition, unaddressed, bearing multiple copies of say 2 different $1.00 to $5.00(SCV)stamps, with perfect cachet and perfect cancel.

Let's also say that the collector does not have either of these stamps in their single stamp collection, probably wouldn't spend the money on acquiring these stamps for their collections, nor do they collect covers.

What would you advise?

I am looking for a reasonable discussion on this one, not simplistic answers such as sell it and buy the stamps, etc. etc.

Bob

Like
Login to Like
this post

President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
25 Jan 2009
09:05:39am

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

For me, I only collect postally used stamps so this would not be an option for me. But, if I were inclined to remove stamps from FDC's, it would depend on the cachet. I might remove the stamp from this fdc:
ArtcraftCachet

but I definitely would not for this FDC:
CollinsCachet.

The Artcraft Cacheted FDC would costs about $1.00 or even less where the early Collins FDC will cost you about $100.00.
Many people think that FDC's as the poor step-child of Stamp Collecting. All they see are the ArtCraft, ArtMaster, possibly House of Farnum Cachets which you can purchase for less than a dollar. There are so many different cachet makers out there and some of them are outstanding artists and make a limited amount of covers. Some cachet makers are extremely popular and FDC's with their cachets can go for much more than a dollar.

Bob

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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Liz

25 Jan 2009
09:08:08am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I think "I" would put another page in my album and mount the complete cover in my collection.

I have been guilty of cutting the stamp off a FDC, soaking it and mounting in my album, but that was many, many years ago.

It brings to mind when I used to shudder and get so annoyed with my father. I would get on his case about hinging mint stamps that I had purchased for him. I can still remember my father back in the early 1960's saying, 'They are my stamps and I will do whatever I want with them!' That was the end of that discussion!

Would you like to borrow my scissors? :-)

Liz

Like
Login to Like
this post

President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
25 Jan 2009
09:16:02am

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I would also like to add, that while I don't consider myself a FDC collector per se. I do collect FDC's of stamps that were issued on my birthdate and the birthdates of my wife & children. I have created a little website (which hasn't been updated in quite a while)with some of the more interesting items. You have to click on the "First Day Covers" link. Then click on each cover to see the different covers for that issue.

http://home.comcast.net/~parkinlot/

Bob

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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Saleem

25 Jan 2009
09:41:22am

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

Hi Boston Bob,
There is one more option - you can use Stamporama or any other Stamp forum and offer the FDC in exchange for a pristine used (or maybe mint) copy of the same stamp in exchange for the FDC. Maybe someone out there requires the FDC and have the extra stamp for exchange!
My presonal view is that you might be destroying a piece of postal history by cutting off the stamp from the FDC.
I started collecting India MNH and also used, in the beginning when I bought the stamps on first day of issue I also bought one stamp with selvedge attached and just moisten the selvedge to attach to an A4 paper and get the stamp first day cancelled at the P.O. this practice continued for about six months. Although I have a complete MNH post independence collection of India I am still hanging on to these six or so pages with each page featuring 4 to 5 stamps with first day cancels from 1977. You see a small folly at that time has turned out into a small piece of history with four/five different First Day cancelled stamps on a page.
Saleem

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"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
Members Picture
Bobstamp

25 Jan 2009
10:19:58am

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I wouldn't clip, not necessarily because it would destroy the cover but because I prefer postally used stamps, preferably with CDS or other interesting cancellations. At the same time, FDC cancellations often are attractive and/or interesting in themselves, so I might clip and soak. There are really just too many variables to say I would always or never do this or that.

Saleem's suggestion to trade is ideal, assuming that the stamps are common. It's better to foster a relationship and make two collectors happy than to clip off a stamp and possibly later regret doing so.

Note to Bob Parkin: So, Bob, why don't you have a Canadian Inverted Seaway FDC in your collection? (Actually, there weren't any FDCs, but you could pick up a stamp for only several thousand dollars, assuming you could find one....)

Bob

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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
25 Jan 2009
10:58:34am

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

Bob -

If an Inverted Saint Lawrence Seaway were to be found on an FDC, that would be my Holy Grail. Currently my Holy Grail is Scott 573 $5.00 Head of Freedom Statue, Capitol Dome from the 1922 series. It was issued 3/20/1923, which is the birthdate of my daughter. That FDC last sold for around $25,000. The $2.00 stamp was issued the same day sold for around $15,000. A little out of my league. The good thing is that the cancel does not say "First Day of Issue" so you have to know the date. Perhaps one could be found in dealers stock. It would still probably cost you a couple hundred dollars anyway because that stamp is not found too often on cover.

Bob

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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Heyralph

25 Jan 2009
11:11:27am

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I'm always a little reluctant to dismantle things, probably excessively so. It sounds like the FDC is attractive (pristine, near perfect cancel etc.) and that the stamps are desirable ($5 SCV), so if I owned it I'd be likely to keep it intact. I like the prior suggestion to add a page to your album to showcase the cover. Lately I've been starting to play with designing my own pages and moving in the direction of trying not to let notions like filling in all the appropriate places in an album dictate what I collect and how.

Ralph

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this post
Members Picture
Bobstamp

25 Jan 2009
11:26:50am

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

Another convert to homemade albums! Yay! I stopped "album stuffing" about 1985 when I was working on a Canada collection. I really liked most of the Canadian stamps issued prior to the early 1950s, but I dutifully carried on buying new issues and searching for everything I didn't have, until one day when I was faced with a glassine of the world's ugliest stamps -- the red postage dues that Canada issued in 1967. Why was I wasting my time and money on something that I didn't like?! Since then, I have collected only stamps that touch my soul in some way, or help to illustrate some point of history that interests me.

The tough thing about making your own pages is that it takes a lot of work, especially if you have the curse of perfectionism. In truth, I rarely make album pages as such any more, but prefer to exhibit. The exhibit themselves are de facto album pages. And once I have exhibited, I rarely look at them, because I'm working on another exhibit or two. As in so many things, the enjoyable thing is the process, not the object. Hunting for and finding a particular stamp or cover is, for me, the best part of collecting. Simply owning the item afterwards is nice, and vital to me, but not the best thing about our hobby.

Bob

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Boston_bob

25 Jan 2009
01:42:30pm

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

Wow, that was quite a bit of discussion. Good Stuff!

Ok, so here's the cover I was talking about. Oh yeah, there's one small detail that enters the equation: I collect U.S., China, Germany, etc. My better half is the WW collector. She wants the stamps, I don't want to destroy the cover.

Am I in a non-win situation?

This is a Ryukus un-circulated with 2-#27, 4-#28 from May 26, 1953.

Ryukyus.jpg

Thank you for your support,

Bob

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this post
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Teisler

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
25 Jan 2009
03:05:10pm

Auctions

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

There's three ways to answer the question: do you value the cover yourself; and do you care if you destroy something of value that you yourself don't value; and can your wife live stamps affixed to a cover if she gets the stamps?

As Bob P noted, not all FDCs are created equal. Some are common as dirt and just as interesting; others might have no value but have interest for one reason or another; and some clearly have value, assuming you find the right buyers (things' real value is always determined by what someone is willing to pay).

I often see Ryuku stamps for sale; i seldom see their covers, even FDCs. I tend to keep things about which I know little until I do, then can determine whether there might be a reason to save it intact.

I know a Ryuku collector and, if you want, can ask him if there's interest in the cover and would he think it wise to disembowl it.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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Boston_bob

26 Jan 2009
06:50:30am

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

David: Not being a cover collector, nor a Ryukyu enthusiast, I would welcome an opinion from your friend. Thanks for offering.

Bob

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Teisler

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
26 Jan 2009
11:44:19am

Auctions

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I talked to my Ryukyu-collecting friend and he identified that FDC as being something more than run-of-the-mill. He definitely thinks it should be kept intact.

David

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this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 300 categories
26 Jan 2009
07:31:48pm

re: Soaking Stamps from FDC's

I agree. I think it's a $10-15 cover. If I saw it in the auction or on a dealer's table for $5, I'd grab it!

Roy

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"BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50- 10,000+ new covers coming Tuesday June 1"

www.Buckacover.com
        

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