Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Hello friends!I want to share with you one of my Covers of Great Britain with variety of "Major Blur" in letters Q-G. I hope you like it.
Close-up
Regards!
Rodolfo
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Rodolfo:
Intriguing. More intriguing is my question: How can you possibly attend to your hobby on a table that is large enough only for a stamp catalogue, an album and your big fat elbows?
You are in flagrant violation of the over-arching law of the philatelic universe: Stamp stuff expands to fill all the space available and then some.
Thanks, too, for the scan as it makes it so much easier, for those of us who have not yet encountered such examples, to recognize these stamp variations. Much appreciated.
John Derry
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John is correct - my stamp desk has grown THREE TIMES since I got back into stamp collecting.....and it seems to be always covered anyway!
Rodolfo -
I have never seen (or heard of) this on penny reds, much less on cover....thank you for the picture!
Randy
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rtvstamps: Nice cover! Except for the penciled notation and arrows. That's a kiss of death, at least as far as cash value goes. A couple of years ago a local dealer here in Vancouver was offering some covers sent by and to Canadian POWs who had been captured by the Japanese at Hong Kong.
Such covers are very rare items, because the POWs weren't allowed to write many letters, and didn't receive many. Those that they did receive often didn't survive the terrible conditions in which the prisoners lived and worked. I have two of these covers, one sent by a prisoner to his mother in Winnipeg, and the other sent by the mother to her son in Japan. The one sent by the mother is nearly falling apart, and was been repaired a long time ago with scotch tape. It looks like the prisoner might have kept it in his pocket throughout the remainder of his incarceration. Here it is:
Anyway, several of the covers the dealer was offering had essentially been destroyed by some well-meaning but ignorant person who had used white-out to hide the identity of the senders and the recipients. Both the historical and commercial value of the covers had been largely destroyed.
Nothing should ever be written on covers. Unfortunately, many dealers continue to write prices on covers. They say that they can't afford to place inexpensive covers in plastic envelopes, but that's just false economy as far as I'm concerned. No sensible collector would mind paying a few extra cents to cover the cost of a plastic envelope.
Bob
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Bob,
That was the first thing that caught my eye....but I didn't want to say anything for fear of upsetting anyone or causing resentment....
You, on the other hand, put it in a very sensitive and diplomatic way - I commend you, my friend.
Randy
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Thanks for your kind comments and observations!. Bob and Randy, you really convinced me to eliminate the quotation from the envelope; fortunately it was easy because it was written with pencil. Thanks for your kind suggestion.
Regards!
Rodolfo
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But the damage is still done. The indentations from the tip of the pencil are still visible.
For the same reason, one must not write on the backs of stamps.
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Thanks for the compliment, Randy. Sometimes I have unwittingly upset people by not, apparently, being very sensitive or considerate!
I almost suggested that the notation could be erased, but erasing pencil marks can be a problem too, especially on old covers which can be quite fragile. In this case, it seems to have worked out well. I certainly would have done the same thing, despite the warning of a paper conservator who spoke to my stamp club a few years ago. She said that any attempt to erase anything from paper will damage paper fibres. But sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do!
Bob
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07:05:32pm
If someone is considering the pros and cons of removing a pencilled notation from a cover such as shown above, drop that pencil with the dirty used eraser tip. Invest in a small soft gum "Art Eraser", rub very lightly and afterward use the scrapings that accumulate to softly be moved around between a second sheetlet and the area you erased so that where the lines were erased does not look like someone scraped part of the paper away.
It will still lower the overall attractiveness of the cover somewhat, but the loss of value to those who love old covers has already occurred. At least a careful cleaning can make it look nice to most observers. Experienced collectors will see evidence of the erasure pretty easily. The last step is to insert a note inside the envelope or the "plastic" (???) sleeve explaining what was written and how you cleaned it. Selling such an envelope without such a disclosure could/would be considered tampering with an attemt to deceive.
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Make sure that the note is on acid-free paper, and also avoid inks that have an acid base. Those will cause more damage than the pencil markings!
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Great cover, Rodolfo. Yes the (erased) pencilled arrow on the left of the stamp is annoying. However, I do not think that it detracts greatly from the value of the cover. Would I put markings on the front of covers today? Certainly not. However, older covers almost always have notations on the back and occasionally on the front. This is just how things were done back then. In the old days, collectors even used to HINGE their stamps. 
Bottom line: we have to collect what is available. Yes, you may find a cover which does not have notations on the front, but then there could be other shortcomings. Let's be happy that the stamp was left on cover in the first place and that the obliterator does not obscure the variety. Overall, the cover is an good shape (no tears, opening flaws etc.) and has great eye appeal. Congratulations!
By the way, the numeral postmark "918" is from Worcester. If you are interested in researching cancellations on classic British stamps, John Hendy's outstanding 1909 book "The History of the Postmarks of the British Isles 1840 - 1876" can be downloaded as a PDF file from here:
http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924030133536
There are no copyright restrictions on the use of this book. The style of the cancel is described on page 10 (Fig. 51) and the Appendix contains listings of the various numeral cancels. The listing for England & Wales starts on page 154.
Arno
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Hello friends!
Thanks a lot for your comments!. About the Postmarks of the British Isles, I have it, is very good!. Regarding the notes of any cover I pass it in my personalized album page and it looks at this: (I leave a blank place for add the Plate Number, I am checking it).
Regards!
Rodolfo
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VERY nice page! Have you exhibited?
Bob
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Thanks for your kind comments Bob!. I really have not shown it in an exhibition because I only personalized them for my Album.
Regards!
Rodolfo
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I agree with Bob Rodolfo, very nice presentation.
Tim.
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You may have created an album page, Rodolfo, but with just a bit more information you would have nothing less than an exhibit sheet. Of course, you'd need a lot of additional sheets to fill one or more frames, and the little matter of a philatelic story to tell, but you seem like a natural exhibitor to me. And you may well have exhibited before. If not, you should consider it. To my mind, exhibiting is hands down the best way to learn about your collections and to enjoy them to the max!
Bob
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Pencil notations about the stamp ID or other such on a cover can just make me crazy. I know it kills the value, but quite often, especially if I'm looking for a particular postmark, it's either the only thing I can find or the only thing I can afford. What does intrigue me are the notations by the recipient (ans. date; receipt date; calculations; grocery lists...).
Roger
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Thanks again cor your kind comments friends!.
Thanks for your kind comments friends!
Bob - I have all my Queen Victoria Covers in the same format, enough for an exhibition, but in my Country we do not so have many events. About this cover, the mark of pencil is not touching the stamp and we know that it is not so easy to have stamps of this type mounted in covers, perhaps that gives to it another value 
Regards
Rodolfo
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Where do you live, Rodolfo?
You said, "About this cover, the mark of pencil is not touching the stamp and we know that it is not so easy to have stamps of this type mounted in covers, perhaps that gives to it another value."
I'm not sure what you mean. I think you are saying that rare or unusual stamps are not often found on covers, and that because of that the pencil marks would not greatly devalue the cover. Am I right? If I interpret you remark correctly, I would agree with you. The commercial and intrinsic value of covers is determined by the value of their positive individual attributes (cleanliness, freshness, clarity and placement of cancellations and postmarks, and proveable provenance) less their negative attributes (damage, shabby appearance, illegibility of postmarks and handwriting, lack of evidence of provenance). I would say that the pencil marks in the case of your cover are relative minor problems.
Bob
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"...I think you are saying that rare or unusual stamps are not often found on covers, and that because of that the pencil marks would not greatly devalue the cover. Am I right? If I interpret you remark correctly, I would agree with you."
Yes Bob, you have interpreted it correctely. I am from Mexico City. Thanks again!Regards!
Rodolfo
(Modified by Moderator on 2012-03-09 19:12:35)
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Hello friends!
Update the info of my Cover:
Plate 79 - principal charateristic: the Malformed and "Major Blur" letters.
Regards!
Rodolfo
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I like the way you mount your cover, very nice,
I also like to dress up my album pages. When doing so, I keep thinking in terms how it might do in an exhibit to be judged. Most of all, it has to please me too.
Chimo
Bujutsu
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Hello friends!
I want to share with you one of my Covers of Great Britain with variety of "Major Blur" in letters Q-G. I hope you like it.
Close-up
Regards!
Rodolfo
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this post
The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
24 Feb 2012
03:09:50pm
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Rodolfo:
Intriguing. More intriguing is my question: How can you possibly attend to your hobby on a table that is large enough only for a stamp catalogue, an album and your big fat elbows?
You are in flagrant violation of the over-arching law of the philatelic universe: Stamp stuff expands to fill all the space available and then some.
Thanks, too, for the scan as it makes it so much easier, for those of us who have not yet encountered such examples, to recognize these stamp variations. Much appreciated.
John Derry
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
John is correct - my stamp desk has grown THREE TIMES since I got back into stamp collecting.....and it seems to be always covered anyway!
Rodolfo -
I have never seen (or heard of) this on penny reds, much less on cover....thank you for the picture!
Randy
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
rtvstamps: Nice cover! Except for the penciled notation and arrows. That's a kiss of death, at least as far as cash value goes. A couple of years ago a local dealer here in Vancouver was offering some covers sent by and to Canadian POWs who had been captured by the Japanese at Hong Kong.
Such covers are very rare items, because the POWs weren't allowed to write many letters, and didn't receive many. Those that they did receive often didn't survive the terrible conditions in which the prisoners lived and worked. I have two of these covers, one sent by a prisoner to his mother in Winnipeg, and the other sent by the mother to her son in Japan. The one sent by the mother is nearly falling apart, and was been repaired a long time ago with scotch tape. It looks like the prisoner might have kept it in his pocket throughout the remainder of his incarceration. Here it is:
Anyway, several of the covers the dealer was offering had essentially been destroyed by some well-meaning but ignorant person who had used white-out to hide the identity of the senders and the recipients. Both the historical and commercial value of the covers had been largely destroyed.
Nothing should ever be written on covers. Unfortunately, many dealers continue to write prices on covers. They say that they can't afford to place inexpensive covers in plastic envelopes, but that's just false economy as far as I'm concerned. No sensible collector would mind paying a few extra cents to cover the cost of a plastic envelope.
Bob
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this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Bob,
That was the first thing that caught my eye....but I didn't want to say anything for fear of upsetting anyone or causing resentment....
You, on the other hand, put it in a very sensitive and diplomatic way - I commend you, my friend.
Randy
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Thanks for your kind comments and observations!. Bob and Randy, you really convinced me to eliminate the quotation from the envelope; fortunately it was easy because it was written with pencil. Thanks for your kind suggestion.
Regards!
Rodolfo
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
But the damage is still done. The indentations from the tip of the pencil are still visible.
For the same reason, one must not write on the backs of stamps.
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Thanks for the compliment, Randy. Sometimes I have unwittingly upset people by not, apparently, being very sensitive or considerate!
I almost suggested that the notation could be erased, but erasing pencil marks can be a problem too, especially on old covers which can be quite fragile. In this case, it seems to have worked out well. I certainly would have done the same thing, despite the warning of a paper conservator who spoke to my stamp club a few years ago. She said that any attempt to erase anything from paper will damage paper fibres. But sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do!
Bob
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this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
25 Feb 2012
07:05:32pm
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
If someone is considering the pros and cons of removing a pencilled notation from a cover such as shown above, drop that pencil with the dirty used eraser tip. Invest in a small soft gum "Art Eraser", rub very lightly and afterward use the scrapings that accumulate to softly be moved around between a second sheetlet and the area you erased so that where the lines were erased does not look like someone scraped part of the paper away.
It will still lower the overall attractiveness of the cover somewhat, but the loss of value to those who love old covers has already occurred. At least a careful cleaning can make it look nice to most observers. Experienced collectors will see evidence of the erasure pretty easily. The last step is to insert a note inside the envelope or the "plastic" (???) sleeve explaining what was written and how you cleaned it. Selling such an envelope without such a disclosure could/would be considered tampering with an attemt to deceive.
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Make sure that the note is on acid-free paper, and also avoid inks that have an acid base. Those will cause more damage than the pencil markings!
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Great cover, Rodolfo. Yes the (erased) pencilled arrow on the left of the stamp is annoying. However, I do not think that it detracts greatly from the value of the cover. Would I put markings on the front of covers today? Certainly not. However, older covers almost always have notations on the back and occasionally on the front. This is just how things were done back then. In the old days, collectors even used to HINGE their stamps.
Bottom line: we have to collect what is available. Yes, you may find a cover which does not have notations on the front, but then there could be other shortcomings. Let's be happy that the stamp was left on cover in the first place and that the obliterator does not obscure the variety. Overall, the cover is an good shape (no tears, opening flaws etc.) and has great eye appeal. Congratulations!
By the way, the numeral postmark "918" is from Worcester. If you are interested in researching cancellations on classic British stamps, John Hendy's outstanding 1909 book "The History of the Postmarks of the British Isles 1840 - 1876" can be downloaded as a PDF file from here:
http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924030133536
There are no copyright restrictions on the use of this book. The style of the cancel is described on page 10 (Fig. 51) and the Appendix contains listings of the various numeral cancels. The listing for England & Wales starts on page 154.
Arno
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Hello friends!
Thanks a lot for your comments!. About the Postmarks of the British Isles, I have it, is very good!. Regarding the notes of any cover I pass it in my personalized album page and it looks at this: (I leave a blank place for add the Plate Number, I am checking it).
Regards!
Rodolfo
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
VERY nice page! Have you exhibited?
Bob
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this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Thanks for your kind comments Bob!. I really have not shown it in an exhibition because I only personalized them for my Album.
Regards!
Rodolfo
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this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
I agree with Bob Rodolfo, very nice presentation.
Tim.
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this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
You may have created an album page, Rodolfo, but with just a bit more information you would have nothing less than an exhibit sheet. Of course, you'd need a lot of additional sheets to fill one or more frames, and the little matter of a philatelic story to tell, but you seem like a natural exhibitor to me. And you may well have exhibited before. If not, you should consider it. To my mind, exhibiting is hands down the best way to learn about your collections and to enjoy them to the max!
Bob
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Pencil notations about the stamp ID or other such on a cover can just make me crazy. I know it kills the value, but quite often, especially if I'm looking for a particular postmark, it's either the only thing I can find or the only thing I can afford. What does intrigue me are the notations by the recipient (ans. date; receipt date; calculations; grocery lists...).
Roger
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Thanks again cor your kind comments friends!.
Thanks for your kind comments friends!
Bob - I have all my Queen Victoria Covers in the same format, enough for an exhibition, but in my Country we do not so have many events. About this cover, the mark of pencil is not touching the stamp and we know that it is not so easy to have stamps of this type mounted in covers, perhaps that gives to it another value
Regards
Rodolfo
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Where do you live, Rodolfo?
You said, "About this cover, the mark of pencil is not touching the stamp and we know that it is not so easy to have stamps of this type mounted in covers, perhaps that gives to it another value."
I'm not sure what you mean. I think you are saying that rare or unusual stamps are not often found on covers, and that because of that the pencil marks would not greatly devalue the cover. Am I right? If I interpret you remark correctly, I would agree with you. The commercial and intrinsic value of covers is determined by the value of their positive individual attributes (cleanliness, freshness, clarity and placement of cancellations and postmarks, and proveable provenance) less their negative attributes (damage, shabby appearance, illegibility of postmarks and handwriting, lack of evidence of provenance). I would say that the pencil marks in the case of your cover are relative minor problems.
Bob
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this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
"...I think you are saying that rare or unusual stamps are not often found on covers, and that because of that the pencil marks would not greatly devalue the cover. Am I right? If I interpret you remark correctly, I would agree with you."
Yes Bob, you have interpreted it correctely. I am from Mexico City. Thanks again!Regards!
Rodolfo
(Modified by Moderator on 2012-03-09 19:12:35)
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
Hello friends!
Update the info of my Cover:
Plate 79 - principal charateristic: the Malformed and "Major Blur" letters.
Regards!
Rodolfo
Login to Like
this post
re: Great Britain Scott #3 plate flaw on Cover
I like the way you mount your cover, very nice,
I also like to dress up my album pages. When doing so, I keep thinking in terms how it might do in an exhibit to be judged. Most of all, it has to please me too.
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post