Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Login to Like
this post
Briefly, there have been three issues. The first, in October 1988, shows the Queen's head in relief (as in the Machins). The second, from 1992 to 1995, printed by Harrison, shows the Queen's head in silhouette and has one elliptical hole on each vertical side. The third, in 1997, printed by Enschedé, is similar to the second but was re-engraved and has different lettering. For example, the Harrison 'S' has top and bottom serifs whereas the Enschedé 'S' has no serifs. There are also differences in the 'C' and the 'A'.
This information is taken from the Stanley Gibbons catalogue Collect British Stamps, a small and simplified but surprisingly useful guide....g
Login to Like
this post
TY Gerald. Much appreciated.
Login to Like
this post
When I read the question I thought it referred to the original castle high values of 1955 onwards. I guess I'm showing my age! 
Login to Like
this post
05:24:33pm
Actually specialists recognise five sets for these castles. One is only important if you are collecting mint copies.
(1.) There is the original issue with the small "Machin Head",
(2.) Then there is the Gold head set. called the cameo head..
(3.) And then there is the Gold head set, re-etched issue.
(4.) Followed by the similar set that used a different gum, described as "PVAI Gum" which has a slightly greenish tinge, just enough to drive you insane.
(5.) And finally the re-etched version printed by Enschelde has its eliptical Perforation higher than previously on the first four sets.
Several sub-categories exist and can be distinguished by a difference between cream paper and white paper
The £1.50 of the fourth set also has a sub-variety based on a color difference called "Bright Claret" instead of the intended "Burgandy".
These twenty one stamps, combined with the earlier stirling sets with the Wilding portrait and the similar four decimal values recently issued in a mini sheetlet can make an impressive display.
Login to Like
this post
Impressive display, oh yes indeed but expensive mint. 1st and 2nd De la Rue plus the Waterlow issue cat over £1,000 in Gibbons. Would love to see it though.
Tim2.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
cdj,
Why are you using the term "re-etched"?????
They are supposed to have been engraved in the first place! And the Dutch printings were engraved by ms Inge Madlé.....
groetjes, Rein
Login to Like
this post
10:23:03am
" ... Why are you using the term "re-etched"????? ..."
Semantics, I suppose.
As you are no doubt aware with your printing experience "Engrave", Etch, and "Intaglio" are essentially synonyms. Perhaps one is preferred over the other for certain steps of the process in the printing industry, but essentially they do mean the same thing..
However all are used in the Deegam Handbook to describe the way stamps, at least the master die is/are produced by scratching the surface of a plate where eventually ink will be retained for transfer during printing.
The design was created from a set of photographs taken by the Duke of York by Chris Matthews for an engraving using what is called the "Profile Head"
The Queen's head was later changed to a silhouette head and at some point the lines of the plate were deepened, by being re-engraved or re-etched.
Even later examples of the desired stamp were sent to Enschede under a new contract where it was re-engraved or re-etched an additional time to a new master plate, with some minor differences, notably in the way the serifs were shown on the capital letters and the way the "double Vs" of the W" in "Windsor" overlapped.
The layout of the semi-eliptical perforations was then changed and the Queen's head was printed by silk screening.
So it does seem to be a matter of semantics.
synonyms
Login to Like
this post
01:39:06pm
Charlie, I never really thought about that. So when, in my younger day, I said "Why don't we go to my place and look at my etchings", I could have said "Why don't we go to my place and look at my intaglios" and, by sounding more sophisticated, educated and continental, might have stood a greater chance of success. 
Login to Like
this post
06:46:32pm
That depends on what someone thought your intaglios were and how badly they wanted to see them. In some states there is probably a law against carelessly displaying ones intaglios.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
cdj,
"So it does seem to be a matter of semantics.
synonyms"
Of course not!
Engraving is a manual or mechanical process; etching a chemical process - at least in the period we are referring to i.e. the 20th and 21st century..
It took Chris Matthews and Inge Madlé months of hard labour while both EME (electro nechanial engraving) or etching after a photograph takes a couple of hours.
So where are your semantics???
Login to Like
this post
09:36:07am
In the link I provided and labelled "Synonyms."
Login to Like
this post
That link has a "diaper" as well
Login to Like
this post
06:08:22am
"... That link has a "diaper" as well ..."
Yes it does. I wondered if anyone would notice it, or even actually click the link I posted.
So I did some probing as it seemed a strange equivalence.
However, there seems to be a reason as the online source gives ""diaper" this alternative meaning;
" ... A pattern composed of small, regularly repeated geometric motifs, usually diamonds or lozenges, used to decorate a surface...." which I suppose could have been chiseled, embedded, etched, inscribed, cut into or scratched on said surface.
and the OED offers a similar reference and suggests it, that's "diaper," again can be used thusly;
" ... Its decoration consists of incised lines forming a diaper pattern, interspersed with a punched design of tiny triangular forms arranged like the petals of a flower...."
It is simply amazing what you can learn from collecting stamps!
Either way, etched, engraved and intaglio seem to have been used somewhat interchangeably in the handbook list for those "Castle stamps.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
02:00:00pm
I don't have the appropriate catalog/reference material on hand, so would some one tell me how to differentiate the various castle issues (Windsor, Carrickfergus, Edinburgh, etc) by year of issue.
Login to Like
this post
05:59:37pm
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
Briefly, there have been three issues. The first, in October 1988, shows the Queen's head in relief (as in the Machins). The second, from 1992 to 1995, printed by Harrison, shows the Queen's head in silhouette and has one elliptical hole on each vertical side. The third, in 1997, printed by Enschedé, is similar to the second but was re-engraved and has different lettering. For example, the Harrison 'S' has top and bottom serifs whereas the Enschedé 'S' has no serifs. There are also differences in the 'C' and the 'A'.
This information is taken from the Stanley Gibbons catalogue Collect British Stamps, a small and simplified but surprisingly useful guide....g
Login to Like
this post
10:59:00pm
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
TY Gerald. Much appreciated.
Login to Like
this post
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
When I read the question I thought it referred to the original castle high values of 1955 onwards. I guess I'm showing my age!
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Jul 2012
05:24:33pm
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
Actually specialists recognise five sets for these castles. One is only important if you are collecting mint copies.
(1.) There is the original issue with the small "Machin Head",
(2.) Then there is the Gold head set. called the cameo head..
(3.) And then there is the Gold head set, re-etched issue.
(4.) Followed by the similar set that used a different gum, described as "PVAI Gum" which has a slightly greenish tinge, just enough to drive you insane.
(5.) And finally the re-etched version printed by Enschelde has its eliptical Perforation higher than previously on the first four sets.
Several sub-categories exist and can be distinguished by a difference between cream paper and white paper
The £1.50 of the fourth set also has a sub-variety based on a color difference called "Bright Claret" instead of the intended "Burgandy".
These twenty one stamps, combined with the earlier stirling sets with the Wilding portrait and the similar four decimal values recently issued in a mini sheetlet can make an impressive display.
Login to Like
this post
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
Impressive display, oh yes indeed but expensive mint. 1st and 2nd De la Rue plus the Waterlow issue cat over £1,000 in Gibbons. Would love to see it though.
Tim2.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
02:09:03pm
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
cdj,
Why are you using the term "re-etched"?????
They are supposed to have been engraved in the first place! And the Dutch printings were engraved by ms Inge Madlé.....
groetjes, Rein
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Dec 2014
10:23:03am
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
" ... Why are you using the term "re-etched"????? ..."
Semantics, I suppose.
As you are no doubt aware with your printing experience "Engrave", Etch, and "Intaglio" are essentially synonyms. Perhaps one is preferred over the other for certain steps of the process in the printing industry, but essentially they do mean the same thing..
However all are used in the Deegam Handbook to describe the way stamps, at least the master die is/are produced by scratching the surface of a plate where eventually ink will be retained for transfer during printing.
The design was created from a set of photographs taken by the Duke of York by Chris Matthews for an engraving using what is called the "Profile Head"
The Queen's head was later changed to a silhouette head and at some point the lines of the plate were deepened, by being re-engraved or re-etched.
Even later examples of the desired stamp were sent to Enschede under a new contract where it was re-engraved or re-etched an additional time to a new master plate, with some minor differences, notably in the way the serifs were shown on the capital letters and the way the "double Vs" of the W" in "Windsor" overlapped.
The layout of the semi-eliptical perforations was then changed and the Queen's head was printed by silk screening.
So it does seem to be a matter of semantics.
synonyms
Login to Like
this post
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
07 Dec 2014
01:39:06pm
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
Charlie, I never really thought about that. So when, in my younger day, I said "Why don't we go to my place and look at my etchings", I could have said "Why don't we go to my place and look at my intaglios" and, by sounding more sophisticated, educated and continental, might have stood a greater chance of success.
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Dec 2014
06:46:32pm
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
That depends on what someone thought your intaglios were and how badly they wanted to see them. In some states there is probably a law against carelessly displaying ones intaglios.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
07:34:57am
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
cdj,
"So it does seem to be a matter of semantics.
synonyms"
Of course not!
Engraving is a manual or mechanical process; etching a chemical process - at least in the period we are referring to i.e. the 20th and 21st century..
It took Chris Matthews and Inge Madlé months of hard labour while both EME (electro nechanial engraving) or etching after a photograph takes a couple of hours.
So where are your semantics???
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
08 Dec 2014
09:36:07am
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
In the link I provided and labelled "Synonyms."
Login to Like
this post
05:01:18am
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
That link has a "diaper" as well
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
10 Dec 2014
06:08:22am
re: How to tell apart the UK Castles
"... That link has a "diaper" as well ..."
Yes it does. I wondered if anyone would notice it, or even actually click the link I posted.
So I did some probing as it seemed a strange equivalence.
However, there seems to be a reason as the online source gives ""diaper" this alternative meaning;
" ... A pattern composed of small, regularly repeated geometric motifs, usually diamonds or lozenges, used to decorate a surface...." which I suppose could have been chiseled, embedded, etched, inscribed, cut into or scratched on said surface.
and the OED offers a similar reference and suggests it, that's "diaper," again can be used thusly;
" ... Its decoration consists of incised lines forming a diaper pattern, interspersed with a punched design of tiny triangular forms arranged like the petals of a flower...."
It is simply amazing what you can learn from collecting stamps!
Either way, etched, engraved and intaglio seem to have been used somewhat interchangeably in the handbook list for those "Castle stamps.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.