Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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12:11:08pm
Off hand it looks like the stamps were added afterward.
Wasn't the Air Mail rate 8¢ per ounce, which if right would mean 8 cents or 16 cents or 24 cents would be appropriate, not 15 cents or 30 cents.
These covers look dicey to me. Possibly the work of someone only minimally conversant with rates and customs.
Was the international rate more than the domestic rate in 1945
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the rates are fine, assuming that they are going to Europe. the 8c rate was for domestic usage; don't have Tony W's book here, but domestic airmail went up from 6c to 8c near the end of the war (except for military personnel, who were allowed to continue using the 6c rate). 15c was the rate to most European countries. Other different international rates existed, but would soon be more standardized.
The top two stamps are clearly added after the fact. On first glance, the 30c transport LOOKS right, based on the boxed part of the slogan killer, but the text doesn't match.
The middle 15c transport, on blue envelope, has no business on this cover, and better matches the box and text of the 30c transport from the top cover.
I think the bottom cover is probably legitimate usage, although an earlier stamp clearly existed there. I suspect that an earlier stamp was removed, but the answer to why is broad and is likely to have been by the sender (ooops, I put on 3c when I need 15c or ooops, that's 30c and i only need 15c, or simple reuse of a stamped envelope that hadn't been mailed or.....). But the cancel appears to match properly.
David
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Yes David the first two covers have the stamps replaced and that's very obvious but the seller hasn't responded to my polite reference of the matter :-(
You are right about the third cover - I am thinking that the guy who did the first two also tried to do a similar thing (most probably steaming off the stamp) with the last cover but replaced the stamp later. Have to be very careful when buying postal history.
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The first thing I saw on the cancellation on the third one,
1) the writing on the state of Missouri is too low for a valid cancellation. The thickness on the inking might be right, but that angle/positioning is off.
2) I had to get really close to the screen to be sure, but if you look at the cancel circle right on the white border of the stamp, you can see a "dent" (it's not perfectly round). Again if it was just fading, I could see someone buying it as the real thing (would have been a "better" fake), but that's not fading, that's a complete 'disconnect' of the ink.
I'd almost say with certainty whoever sold it was doing a remove/replace with the nearest "match" they could find.
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Interesting discussion and great images as well, Saleem....
...thank you for posting this - been a great lesson!
Randy
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Saw these at Delcampe recently, what got me interested was the second cover with 15th November 1945 postmark - these 15¢ Transport Plane are harder to find used as solo to European destinations during the war. I almost bid on these but there was something that caused me to let these go at $3.00 - can you tell me what it was?
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Aug 2012
12:11:08pm
re: Covers with problems?
Off hand it looks like the stamps were added afterward.
Wasn't the Air Mail rate 8¢ per ounce, which if right would mean 8 cents or 16 cents or 24 cents would be appropriate, not 15 cents or 30 cents.
These covers look dicey to me. Possibly the work of someone only minimally conversant with rates and customs.
Was the international rate more than the domestic rate in 1945
Login to Like
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re: Covers with problems?
the rates are fine, assuming that they are going to Europe. the 8c rate was for domestic usage; don't have Tony W's book here, but domestic airmail went up from 6c to 8c near the end of the war (except for military personnel, who were allowed to continue using the 6c rate). 15c was the rate to most European countries. Other different international rates existed, but would soon be more standardized.
The top two stamps are clearly added after the fact. On first glance, the 30c transport LOOKS right, based on the boxed part of the slogan killer, but the text doesn't match.
The middle 15c transport, on blue envelope, has no business on this cover, and better matches the box and text of the 30c transport from the top cover.
I think the bottom cover is probably legitimate usage, although an earlier stamp clearly existed there. I suspect that an earlier stamp was removed, but the answer to why is broad and is likely to have been by the sender (ooops, I put on 3c when I need 15c or ooops, that's 30c and i only need 15c, or simple reuse of a stamped envelope that hadn't been mailed or.....). But the cancel appears to match properly.
David
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re: Covers with problems?
Yes David the first two covers have the stamps replaced and that's very obvious but the seller hasn't responded to my polite reference of the matter :-(
You are right about the third cover - I am thinking that the guy who did the first two also tried to do a similar thing (most probably steaming off the stamp) with the last cover but replaced the stamp later. Have to be very careful when buying postal history.
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re: Covers with problems?
The first thing I saw on the cancellation on the third one,
1) the writing on the state of Missouri is too low for a valid cancellation. The thickness on the inking might be right, but that angle/positioning is off.
2) I had to get really close to the screen to be sure, but if you look at the cancel circle right on the white border of the stamp, you can see a "dent" (it's not perfectly round). Again if it was just fading, I could see someone buying it as the real thing (would have been a "better" fake), but that's not fading, that's a complete 'disconnect' of the ink.
I'd almost say with certainty whoever sold it was doing a remove/replace with the nearest "match" they could find.
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re: Covers with problems?
Interesting discussion and great images as well, Saleem....
...thank you for posting this - been a great lesson!
Randy
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