Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Any suggestions on this matter would help.
Thanks!
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I am assuming you are using the UV lamp to detect tagging on US stamps. If that is the case...
The G4T5 (your old lamp) has an emission peak centered around 254nm (i.e., shortwave UV).
The F4T5 (the suggested replacement) has an emission peak centered around 365nm (i.e., longwave UV). The tail into the shortwave is essentially non-existent. If you had used this lamp as a replacement, your stamp paper would glow, but the taggant would not photoluminesce.
The lamps are interchangeable only in the sense that the connectors and starters are the same. But the emission spectrum are very different.
The F4T5 is "safer and cheaper" because it is a longwave UV lamp. But it would have cost you more in the long run because you would still have to buy the shortwave UV G4T5 in order to detect tagging on US stamps.
I'm going to assume the rep is someone relatively new. While I am not a bulb salesperson, I do have some basic background in spectroscopy. This is not something complicated for a lamp/bulb salesperson. I'm really surprised they would make such a basic mistake. When looking for a replacement, any salesperson should know it is the specifications that count, not the price. I would suggest that you try to find a "different rep" in the future.
To examine the specs, Google "G4T5 specifications" and "F4T5 specifications" so that you can confirm my information.
Hope that helps.
k
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By the way, it does pay to shop around for a G4T5 lamp. The shortwave UV lamps have dropped in price dramatically in the past 20 years because manufacturers were able to ramp up production in response to increased applications. Shortwave UV used to be primarily a research interest. Now there are numerous applications, notably for killing bacteria in consumer and production environments. So yeah, even though the power for your lamp is low (4W) and you really don't need protective eyeware, you should minimize:
1) looking directly into the bulb or at reflection of the bulb.
2) letting the UV hit metal surfaces.
3) letting the UV lamp shine on your skin or rest (while on) on your legs/pants for extended periods of time.
Again, for most philatelists, our exposure is really quite minimal. Unless you are working with the lamp on several hours each day for a few years, there is little to worry about. 4 watts is really not a lot of power. The easiest to be damaged is your eye, which is the reason for precautions #1-2. But if you even superficially follow the above precautions, you should have nothing to worry about.
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Excellent explaination from an expert . Love Stamporama, wouldn't get this in-depth info elsewhere in philatelic community. Thanks 'khg' for sharing this with us.
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Thanks K! The sales man as you guessed is not into the philatelic activity thus had no way of knowing. And I was not informed of the spectrum's perimeters. Thanks for the details!
I did find awide range of pricing for the lamp $3.50 - 30. with shipping twice the cost of the lamp.
Now armed with the specs I will place an order for the lamp requesting the correct G4T5 lamp.
regards,
Steven
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A bit of additional unsolicited advice, as I may have been a little misleading when I pointed out prices had dropped considerably.
There is a reason for the wide range of prices. I STRONGLY recommend that you only buy bulbs that are manufactured either in North America or Northern/Western Europe. I am not being racist (I am Asian), but pragmatic. Do not assume the company nationality is the same as the manufacturing location. Lots of companies outsource manufacturing. You will likely find out that most of the cheaper bulbs are all manufactured outside those areas. Trust me, it makes a difference (read next paragraph if you want to know why). You may not be able to find the location of the manufacturer. If you do decide to get the cheaper bulbs, you really should go ahead and buy at least 2, since your cost is dominated by shipping. That way you will have a spare if the bulb burns out quickly. The $30 bulbs, you are basically paying list price. Now if you want to know why the manufacturer makes a difference...
For our application, unlike a house light bulb, the UV tube life will be impacted primarily by the number of times we turn the bulb on/off, since we typically don't leave the UV lamp continuously on for minutes or hours at a time. In standard usage, poor quality bulbs will of course be less efficient (and therefore, be less "bright") and have shorter life. I found out the hard way once when I purchased some tungsten-halogen bulbs made in a country (unnamed by me) in Europe. They were really cheap, but each one lasted a few weeks (rather than the normal YEARS) so I just tossed the remaining batch away. But that is not the real problem. The real problem is that the constant turning on/off of the bulb affects poor quality bulbs much much more than good quality bulbs. Bulb life on spec sheets often mean NOTHING for our application because most spec sheets are for "typical" usage, not flash/intermittent applications. There are bulbs designed for those, but I doubt they exist for UV lamps and you really don't need them. Bottom line, I probably would not consider the bulbs under $10 unless it was some sort of clearinghouse for the higher quality bulbs.
Case in point, my UV bulbs (both short/long wavelength) have lasted me 20 years, and I've used them pretty extensively (originally for research with heavy-duty long term use in corrosive vapor environment, and then later with intermittent use for philately). I'm sure they've logged several hundred hours, if not over 1000 hours of on time. And with the later philatelic usage, I'm sure I've flipped it on/off over 1000 times, if not a few thousand times (I was really into tagging for many years, and I also make it a habit of examining every stamp/book/album I get for mildew). I think the expected life on the spec sheet was 5-7 years or something like that. But the lamp was a high quality lamp that wasn't cheap, so I'm pretty certain the bulbs that came with it were also high quality.
OK, sorry about the length of this post, probably much more than you all wanted to know. Hope you get a good replacement bulb. Enjoy your UV lamp and your stamps!
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The length of the post can never be long enough for those who are reading this thread with interest. Excellent description of replacement bulbs, advice on buying and sharing of knowledge. See if you haven't ovelooked anything - we would like to hear more on this subject.
Thanks again for sharing.
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Thanks k. Fabulous post.
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Thank you, Kim, for your "illuminating" comments on ultra-violet light - fascinating and useful.
John Derry
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Khj,
The information you posted back on January 15, 2003 is both interesting and at the same time confusing for me.
You state, "I am assuming you are using the UV lamp to detect tagging on US stamps. If that is the case...
The G4T5 (your old lamp) has an emission peak centered around 254nm (i.e., shortwave UV).
The F4T5 (the suggested replacement) has an emission peak centered around 365nm (i.e., longwave UV).
The lamps are interchangeable only in the sense that the connectors and starters are the same. But the emission spectrum are very different..................................
The F4T5 is "safer and cheaper" because it is a longwave UV lamp."
My confusion is: I have a handheld dual UV light, not sure where or when I got it, brand, UV-TOOL.
My short wave bulb burnt out. ID stamped on bulb, F4T5 GL. You indicate that is a long wave bulb, but my lamp indicates short wave use and I have been using it as short wave for tagging on US stamps. I need a replacement bulb, but now not sure which to seek. I also do not know what the GL stands for.
Any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Mel
Added: Just determined I have a L81 Switchable Dual UV lamp, portable (long+short wave)from Lighthouse.
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Excellent question Mel. Once you get past the bulb manufacturer, the product dealer won't go into the details of the part specs.
First a clarification. We call the F4T5 a long-wavelength UV bulb because it was originally designed for emitting long-wavelength UV. However, the bulb element actually emits a much broader spectrum, including a tail into the short-wavelength UV range. To sell it as a long-wavelength UV bulb, the original glass did not allow short-wavelength UV light to pass through, effectively serving as a short-wavelength UV filter.
As you may have guessed, the GL version of the lamp is not the same as the non-GL.
If I remember correctly, "GL" stamps for "Germicidal Lamp". The difference between the GL and non-GL version is not the emitting element, but the glass enclosure. The GL glass does allow short-wavelength UV light to pass thru. So you can actually use it as a short-wavelength lamp as well. Unfortunately to do so...
-- you need to have a long-wavelength UV filter so that you don't have to fight off the paper glow when examining US tagging (I don't own a Lighthouse, so I don't know how they designed it to work around this)
-- it will have a much smaller short-wavelength UV intensity than a dedicated short-wavelength UV bulb, because you are using the "tail" of the long-wavelength UV bulb.
So why do some lamp manufacturers do this? Long-wavelength UV bulbs are cheaper than short-wavelength UV bulbs. And for UV lamps of that size, you pretty much have to have the room lights out or be in a good shadow in order to see the tagging. The manufacturers are counting on the user to not notice the difference. If you examine large blocks or panes, you will notice the difference.
In general, you should replace with the same model bulb that came with the lamp (I assume it was new). If you are happy with your UV lamp performance, then there is little motivation to change. If you feel comfortable digging through the specs of your Lighthouse (they aren't good about publishing their specs, so you may have to email them), then it may be worth considering asking them if using the more expensive "G" bulbs are OK (make sure you get the correct model number that has the same connector and power consumption).
Have fun.
k
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K,
Thanks much. The lamp I have has a reflective background for the bulb, and what I assume is the filter, a black lens through which the bulb shines. I cannot see through the lens when held up to a light, but obviously the lens lets the UV light through. I have emailed Lighthouse asking if they sell replacement bulbs. I have also researched replacement bulbs and all that I have found show F4T5, but no GL or they show G4T5 with some other letter.
I guess I really need to find out, as you suggest, if the G4T5 is a good replacement bulb.
Thanks for all your help, it is greatly appreciated.
Regards, Mel
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To find the "F4T5 GL", make sure you put it in quotes. They are available on Amazon and elsewhere. Sometimes the seller will list it as F4T5/GL, so you can search for that as well. To be honest, I don't know the official nomenclature.
I am curious. Does your L81 have two separate bulbs, or just that single bulb? I'm used to working with larger lamps that have 2 separate bulbs for the different wavelength centers. Thanks in advance for checking. I'm slightly surprised they are using an F bulb and not a G bulb for the short-wavelength. I would have expected the G bulb to be the original bulb.
See if you can get the exact OEM model number. You can expect Lighthouse to tack on a substantial branding premium if you buy it from them.
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My unit has two bulbs the one being discussed for short wave, about 6" long and a small tiny bulb for long wave. The long wave bulb is much smaller than a flashlight bulb but works on the same principle.
Will try your suggestion re: Amazon.
Again, thanks for your help.
Mel
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The F/GL's run from $3.50+, but it's the shipping that is expensive because of the glass and mercury. So total cost will be roughly $10+.
Remember the warning in my older post about country of manufacture on the bulbs. Odds are the cheaper bulbs are from low QC sources, but don't assume the more expensive bulbs aren't also from low QC countries. If you are not in a hurry, I would advise emailing and asking the country of manufacture.
They are available on eBay, Amazon, ReplacementLightBulbs.com... and even Sears!
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UPDATE!!
Ordered bulb Germicidal F4T5/GL from Amazon. Cost $6.30 for bulb and $5.49 for shipping. Total $11.79. Arrived today, fits nicely and works like new. Bulb was in container marked G4T5 and shipped from Morris Plains NJ. However the bulb was made in China because that is what was printed on the bulb.
Lighthouse does not sell a replacement bulb for my unit, per their email response.
Thanks for all the help.
Mel
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http://www.ebay.ca/itm/E27-15W-20W-40W-Energy-Saving-UV-Sterilizer-Ultra-Violet-Stage-Lamp-Light-Bulbs/371860600949?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620091118%26meid%3D148fb184881f4e2783684bfd30a36786%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302217839967
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Think the link phos gave us, below, might be rather large for a handheld.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/E27-15W-20W-40W-Energy-Saving-UV-Sterilizer-Ultra-Violet-Stage-Lamp-Light-Bulbs/371860600949?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620091118%26meid%3D148fb184881f4e2783684bfd30a36786%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302217839967
Though they would work well for sterilizing drinking water, but would advise against using for fish ponds as it also kills the small creatures that fish eat.
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11:29:10am
My UV tube burned out for my hand held tagging unit identifier. In looking for a replacement tube I spoke with a rep for a bulb distributor and he suggested an alternate to the G4T5 tube that came with the unit. He said a F4T5 tube is safer and cheaper. I know that the unit I have has multiple warnings on it not to look into the light. I suppose any reflected light is just as serious so I am wondering if replacing with the F4T5 tube would offer the same kind of properties to identify the tagging on stamps?
Any suggestions on this matter would help.
Thanks!
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
I am assuming you are using the UV lamp to detect tagging on US stamps. If that is the case...
The G4T5 (your old lamp) has an emission peak centered around 254nm (i.e., shortwave UV).
The F4T5 (the suggested replacement) has an emission peak centered around 365nm (i.e., longwave UV). The tail into the shortwave is essentially non-existent. If you had used this lamp as a replacement, your stamp paper would glow, but the taggant would not photoluminesce.
The lamps are interchangeable only in the sense that the connectors and starters are the same. But the emission spectrum are very different.
The F4T5 is "safer and cheaper" because it is a longwave UV lamp. But it would have cost you more in the long run because you would still have to buy the shortwave UV G4T5 in order to detect tagging on US stamps.
I'm going to assume the rep is someone relatively new. While I am not a bulb salesperson, I do have some basic background in spectroscopy. This is not something complicated for a lamp/bulb salesperson. I'm really surprised they would make such a basic mistake. When looking for a replacement, any salesperson should know it is the specifications that count, not the price. I would suggest that you try to find a "different rep" in the future.
To examine the specs, Google "G4T5 specifications" and "F4T5 specifications" so that you can confirm my information.
Hope that helps.
k
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
By the way, it does pay to shop around for a G4T5 lamp. The shortwave UV lamps have dropped in price dramatically in the past 20 years because manufacturers were able to ramp up production in response to increased applications. Shortwave UV used to be primarily a research interest. Now there are numerous applications, notably for killing bacteria in consumer and production environments. So yeah, even though the power for your lamp is low (4W) and you really don't need protective eyeware, you should minimize:
1) looking directly into the bulb or at reflection of the bulb.
2) letting the UV hit metal surfaces.
3) letting the UV lamp shine on your skin or rest (while on) on your legs/pants for extended periods of time.
Again, for most philatelists, our exposure is really quite minimal. Unless you are working with the lamp on several hours each day for a few years, there is little to worry about. 4 watts is really not a lot of power. The easiest to be damaged is your eye, which is the reason for precautions #1-2. But if you even superficially follow the above precautions, you should have nothing to worry about.
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
Excellent explaination from an expert . Love Stamporama, wouldn't get this in-depth info elsewhere in philatelic community. Thanks 'khg' for sharing this with us.
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04:07:54pm
re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
Thanks K! The sales man as you guessed is not into the philatelic activity thus had no way of knowing. And I was not informed of the spectrum's perimeters. Thanks for the details!
I did find awide range of pricing for the lamp $3.50 - 30. with shipping twice the cost of the lamp.
Now armed with the specs I will place an order for the lamp requesting the correct G4T5 lamp.
regards,
Steven
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
A bit of additional unsolicited advice, as I may have been a little misleading when I pointed out prices had dropped considerably.
There is a reason for the wide range of prices. I STRONGLY recommend that you only buy bulbs that are manufactured either in North America or Northern/Western Europe. I am not being racist (I am Asian), but pragmatic. Do not assume the company nationality is the same as the manufacturing location. Lots of companies outsource manufacturing. You will likely find out that most of the cheaper bulbs are all manufactured outside those areas. Trust me, it makes a difference (read next paragraph if you want to know why). You may not be able to find the location of the manufacturer. If you do decide to get the cheaper bulbs, you really should go ahead and buy at least 2, since your cost is dominated by shipping. That way you will have a spare if the bulb burns out quickly. The $30 bulbs, you are basically paying list price. Now if you want to know why the manufacturer makes a difference...
For our application, unlike a house light bulb, the UV tube life will be impacted primarily by the number of times we turn the bulb on/off, since we typically don't leave the UV lamp continuously on for minutes or hours at a time. In standard usage, poor quality bulbs will of course be less efficient (and therefore, be less "bright") and have shorter life. I found out the hard way once when I purchased some tungsten-halogen bulbs made in a country (unnamed by me) in Europe. They were really cheap, but each one lasted a few weeks (rather than the normal YEARS) so I just tossed the remaining batch away. But that is not the real problem. The real problem is that the constant turning on/off of the bulb affects poor quality bulbs much much more than good quality bulbs. Bulb life on spec sheets often mean NOTHING for our application because most spec sheets are for "typical" usage, not flash/intermittent applications. There are bulbs designed for those, but I doubt they exist for UV lamps and you really don't need them. Bottom line, I probably would not consider the bulbs under $10 unless it was some sort of clearinghouse for the higher quality bulbs.
Case in point, my UV bulbs (both short/long wavelength) have lasted me 20 years, and I've used them pretty extensively (originally for research with heavy-duty long term use in corrosive vapor environment, and then later with intermittent use for philately). I'm sure they've logged several hundred hours, if not over 1000 hours of on time. And with the later philatelic usage, I'm sure I've flipped it on/off over 1000 times, if not a few thousand times (I was really into tagging for many years, and I also make it a habit of examining every stamp/book/album I get for mildew). I think the expected life on the spec sheet was 5-7 years or something like that. But the lamp was a high quality lamp that wasn't cheap, so I'm pretty certain the bulbs that came with it were also high quality.
OK, sorry about the length of this post, probably much more than you all wanted to know. Hope you get a good replacement bulb. Enjoy your UV lamp and your stamps!
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
The length of the post can never be long enough for those who are reading this thread with interest. Excellent description of replacement bulbs, advice on buying and sharing of knowledge. See if you haven't ovelooked anything - we would like to hear more on this subject.
Thanks again for sharing.
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
Thanks k. Fabulous post.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
17 Jan 2013
12:55:35pm
re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
Thank you, Kim, for your "illuminating" comments on ultra-violet light - fascinating and useful.
John Derry
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
Khj,
The information you posted back on January 15, 2003 is both interesting and at the same time confusing for me.
You state, "I am assuming you are using the UV lamp to detect tagging on US stamps. If that is the case...
The G4T5 (your old lamp) has an emission peak centered around 254nm (i.e., shortwave UV).
The F4T5 (the suggested replacement) has an emission peak centered around 365nm (i.e., longwave UV).
The lamps are interchangeable only in the sense that the connectors and starters are the same. But the emission spectrum are very different..................................
The F4T5 is "safer and cheaper" because it is a longwave UV lamp."
My confusion is: I have a handheld dual UV light, not sure where or when I got it, brand, UV-TOOL.
My short wave bulb burnt out. ID stamped on bulb, F4T5 GL. You indicate that is a long wave bulb, but my lamp indicates short wave use and I have been using it as short wave for tagging on US stamps. I need a replacement bulb, but now not sure which to seek. I also do not know what the GL stands for.
Any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Mel
Added: Just determined I have a L81 Switchable Dual UV lamp, portable (long+short wave)from Lighthouse.
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
Excellent question Mel. Once you get past the bulb manufacturer, the product dealer won't go into the details of the part specs.
First a clarification. We call the F4T5 a long-wavelength UV bulb because it was originally designed for emitting long-wavelength UV. However, the bulb element actually emits a much broader spectrum, including a tail into the short-wavelength UV range. To sell it as a long-wavelength UV bulb, the original glass did not allow short-wavelength UV light to pass through, effectively serving as a short-wavelength UV filter.
As you may have guessed, the GL version of the lamp is not the same as the non-GL.
If I remember correctly, "GL" stamps for "Germicidal Lamp". The difference between the GL and non-GL version is not the emitting element, but the glass enclosure. The GL glass does allow short-wavelength UV light to pass thru. So you can actually use it as a short-wavelength lamp as well. Unfortunately to do so...
-- you need to have a long-wavelength UV filter so that you don't have to fight off the paper glow when examining US tagging (I don't own a Lighthouse, so I don't know how they designed it to work around this)
-- it will have a much smaller short-wavelength UV intensity than a dedicated short-wavelength UV bulb, because you are using the "tail" of the long-wavelength UV bulb.
So why do some lamp manufacturers do this? Long-wavelength UV bulbs are cheaper than short-wavelength UV bulbs. And for UV lamps of that size, you pretty much have to have the room lights out or be in a good shadow in order to see the tagging. The manufacturers are counting on the user to not notice the difference. If you examine large blocks or panes, you will notice the difference.
In general, you should replace with the same model bulb that came with the lamp (I assume it was new). If you are happy with your UV lamp performance, then there is little motivation to change. If you feel comfortable digging through the specs of your Lighthouse (they aren't good about publishing their specs, so you may have to email them), then it may be worth considering asking them if using the more expensive "G" bulbs are OK (make sure you get the correct model number that has the same connector and power consumption).
Have fun.
k
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
K,
Thanks much. The lamp I have has a reflective background for the bulb, and what I assume is the filter, a black lens through which the bulb shines. I cannot see through the lens when held up to a light, but obviously the lens lets the UV light through. I have emailed Lighthouse asking if they sell replacement bulbs. I have also researched replacement bulbs and all that I have found show F4T5, but no GL or they show G4T5 with some other letter.
I guess I really need to find out, as you suggest, if the G4T5 is a good replacement bulb.
Thanks for all your help, it is greatly appreciated.
Regards, Mel
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
To find the "F4T5 GL", make sure you put it in quotes. They are available on Amazon and elsewhere. Sometimes the seller will list it as F4T5/GL, so you can search for that as well. To be honest, I don't know the official nomenclature.
I am curious. Does your L81 have two separate bulbs, or just that single bulb? I'm used to working with larger lamps that have 2 separate bulbs for the different wavelength centers. Thanks in advance for checking. I'm slightly surprised they are using an F bulb and not a G bulb for the short-wavelength. I would have expected the G bulb to be the original bulb.
See if you can get the exact OEM model number. You can expect Lighthouse to tack on a substantial branding premium if you buy it from them.
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
My unit has two bulbs the one being discussed for short wave, about 6" long and a small tiny bulb for long wave. The long wave bulb is much smaller than a flashlight bulb but works on the same principle.
Will try your suggestion re: Amazon.
Again, thanks for your help.
Mel
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
The F/GL's run from $3.50+, but it's the shipping that is expensive because of the glass and mercury. So total cost will be roughly $10+.
Remember the warning in my older post about country of manufacture on the bulbs. Odds are the cheaper bulbs are from low QC sources, but don't assume the more expensive bulbs aren't also from low QC countries. If you are not in a hurry, I would advise emailing and asking the country of manufacture.
They are available on eBay, Amazon, ReplacementLightBulbs.com... and even Sears!
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
UPDATE!!
Ordered bulb Germicidal F4T5/GL from Amazon. Cost $6.30 for bulb and $5.49 for shipping. Total $11.79. Arrived today, fits nicely and works like new. Bulb was in container marked G4T5 and shipped from Morris Plains NJ. However the bulb was made in China because that is what was printed on the bulb.
Lighthouse does not sell a replacement bulb for my unit, per their email response.
Thanks for all the help.
Mel
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/E27-15W-20W-40W-Energy-Saving-UV-Sterilizer-Ultra-Violet-Stage-Lamp-Light-Bulbs/371860600949?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620091118%26meid%3D148fb184881f4e2783684bfd30a36786%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302217839967
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re: Alternate black light tube for tagging ID
Think the link phos gave us, below, might be rather large for a handheld.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/E27-15W-20W-40W-Energy-Saving-UV-Sterilizer-Ultra-Violet-Stage-Lamp-Light-Bulbs/371860600949?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620091118%26meid%3D148fb184881f4e2783684bfd30a36786%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302217839967
Though they would work well for sterilizing drinking water, but would advise against using for fish ponds as it also kills the small creatures that fish eat.
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